hi, rogueX
There's been a few new posts since I wrote the following yesterday, but I'll post it anyways....

.... RX, just looking at your separation date, you're still very near the beginning of a long process, you can still count your time in weeks - that's way too soon to throw in the towel.

Quote: <"... in her own fantasy world that there is no reconcilliation. She just refuses to admit to me or even to herself that she's messed up ..." >

... No, not now, and maybe never. But you have to ignore the words. Of course she says she doesn't care, and yes she is off into a fantasy world. But the meaning of her words right now is to prove to the rest of the world that you are all wrong. It is part and parcel of justifying yourself, because the truth is too oppressive. Not oppressive to you, but oppressive to herself. i.e. she is telling herself a lie, and it is all an exercise in being extremely defensive, because she knows how wrong she is, and she knows that she is doing terrible things. She will be defensive about the people she hangs out with - no way in the world to admit to you or to her parents that they are a bunch of jerks (which they are!). The more she realizes that, the more defensive she becomes. The worst possible thing for her now is that what you say maybe right, that her parents maybe right.
One heck of a lot of things happen to a person's mind between the ages of 24 to 30 and beyond.
The process of falling into this situtation and getting out of it, is measured in years, not weeks and months.
You've got the ace in the hole (the child), she'll be coming back for him. Right now, her whole thing is to prove to the world that you cannot control her, and it's about avoiding to see, admit, or confirm any possibility that she doing something incredibly stupid. But she will be paying a heavy price for that. By all means, protect yourself and your money, and your kid - but don't close the door quite that fast.
I hope you'll keep writing to this message board for a long time yet, for yourself, and for the benefit of everyone's learning what works and what doesn't - and what miracles might yet happen if you make room for them in your life.

... and by the way, even if she puts herself down as single on a message board, she is not single, she is married, and until the divorce is final she is commiting adultery. Pretty simple. But don't just pay any attention to stuff like this. She is just trying to justify her own behaviour.

Greetings

Couple of suggestions...maybe change the title of your thread to more accurately reflect your situation. Might get more feedback.

I had Post Partum Depression--this doesn't sound like PPD.

Difficult question: Given your wife's behavior...do you know how long she has been cheating? Perhaps even before your marriage? Before your son was born?

She sounds really young, and if she's the consummate party girl, are you certain she was faithful before your son was conceived? Obviously, after 15 months, you have bonded with the boy forever, but I'm just worried that SHE might drop a bomb on you in a custody battle.

Also, what the he11 is a married woman doing with a myspace anyway? This is nothing but an invite for parties and infidelity. I think you are going to find out a lot more to this whole story before you are done.

What made you guys get married? How did you meet? Was she always a party girl?

Thanks for the responses. I will change the title of the thread soon, I just have to figure out what I want it to say.

I really don't know what my future is going to bring, nor do I pretend to know. Every day I waffle between filling out the divorce papers and just filling out Separation papers. It's a hard decision to make. She says she wants a divorce, but like others here have said, she very likely doesn't know what she really wants. Not right now. I really don't want to give up on her in the end, but I don't want to continue being hurt, either. I love her, but I know I can find someone better than the girl she's become. That is, IF she's not willing to meet me in the middle and show me she's better than this.

imanotherone: She is young. She's only going to be 25 this year. And yeah, she was a party girl when I first met her, and we went through a lot of problems early in our relationship. Then, quite suddenly, it became incredibly strong and incredibly stable, out of nowhere. We never spent time apart. I'm not afraid that my son is not mine.. I'm almost 100% certain that she wasn't cheating on me at that point, and I also know that we were TRYING to have a baby at the time he was conceived.. we were having sex every day, multiple times a day, with the express goal of getting her pregnant. The chances of him not being my son are pretty damn slim.

As for the story of us, it's pretty long:

She and I met years ago downtown. She was the fiance of one of my friends. At the time, I was a very jaded, cynical young man. I had been the 'nice guy' for a very long time, and I had been driven to the point where I thought all I wanted from women was sex. I stole her from her fiance, solely because she was hot and I wanted to sleep with her. But we bonded much more than I though we would. She told me she loved me and that she wanted to be with me. I realized, though, that she was still immature (at the time, she was only 19), and I told her that I didn't want a serious relationship with her until she had 'grown up' a bit.

That turned her into a crazy party girl. I don't know what happened.. maybe my rejection of her was responsible, and she was just doing bad things to try to get my attention. It worked, a lot, but got me to really not like her. We still had a sexual relationship, on and off again, throughout most of this. Ultimately, she would find a boyfriend and suddenly settle down. I'd see in her the woman I knew she could be and would steal her away from the guy she was with (yes, she was cheating on them when she'd go to me, each and every time - should have been a big red flag), only to freak out at the idea that I could be in love with someone that much, and that she could love me that much. Plus, I'd realize that she hadn't really grown up.. it just seemed that way.

Finally, she really DID become the woman I wanted. At least, for a time. I also realized that I DID love her, and that I DID want to be with her. So we got together more formally. We had some minor problems here and there, but overall things were great. She was faithful to me. We were very honest with one another during this time.. everything seemed to click. I eventually proposed to her; I wanted her in my life forever. She told me, that day, that she knew I was the man she was going to marry from the moment she saw me.

It was powerful. It was emotional. I loved her so much. I really did, and still do, wish I could be with her forever.

We got married via a pastor friend of ours, but we didn't have a ceremoney. It was just she and I, saying our vows together with the pastor and two of our closest friends as our witnesses. From that point, our relationship became even stronger. I know she did not stray then. I have eyes and ears that are not my own, and never once did my gut tell me that anything was wrong. Things were amazing. We were happy. We did everything together. Our sexual relationship was VERY good.. there was always a lot of passion between us. We weren't afraid of being affectionate to one another.. our Love Banks were always full to the brim. So full that, when we had disagreements over anything, they'd be short and within minutes, we'd be over them. Our passionate natures did lead to a few arguments here and there, but they'd end quickly... usually the passion would fuel make-up sex afterwards.

Really, we gave each other everything we needed. I really don't know what changed after our baby was born.

Should I move on? And If I should wait, like DMbx seems to suggest, should I just do Separation papers and hold off on the Divorce? I don't want to give up yet, unless it's absolutely required that I do.

P.S. She got a MySpace because I had one. I network with it, and actually met my coworker on it weeks before I actually started the job I have now. He found me and we got to know each other in advance.

P.P.S. Sorry for the jumbled mess that was this post. I just had a lot of thoughts to complete, heheh.

Wow. A lot for you to think about, then. Obviously, you don't want to abandon your son right now, since your WW is not thinking clearly. Will she ever become that woman you thought you were marrying? I don't have the answers.

Right now might be a good time to protect your assets, and work on YOU and SON. Harley has a lot to say about folks who are dealing with addiction, and some MB principles like Plan A and B don't work as effectively when drugs and alcohol are involved.

I think she's more addicted to the MMORPG she was playing than any drugs. Honestly, I think she just smokes a little pot once in awhile; she's not addicted to it.

However, an addiction is an addiction, and the one she has is awful. I know that, if we were to consider working things out, she'd have to cut all ties to everyone she knows online, just because I don't know how many of them she's flirted with or played around with in any way. I'm not sure if she'd be willing to do that. At least, not right now.

I'll go ahead with the Legal Separation for now. She wants Divorce, and I'm ultimately willing to go that route if it seems necessary, but I'm not ready to give in just yet.

Today is a down day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I haven't spoken to her in any form since the last email I sent her on July 2nd. She has never replied, nor has she called or otherwise tried to contact me.

This is good, because it gives me my chance to relax and heal away from her, but it's bad because as I learn to let go of the anger and bitterness, I begin to miss her. I mean, I don't miss the arguments, the lying, or the affairs... but I miss our happy times. Like when we would cuddle on the couch for hours and watch movies together. Or when we'd just go out on a drive together, to the middle of nowhere, and watch the sky as we held each other.

I miss the good times. They really were good, for a time. I want those times back.

I'm sad today. I hope that getting to see my son tonight will make me happy again.

It's been a week since she last wrote me. I keep wanting to send her a message asking how she's doing. I keep finding myself missing her. I don't know where she at all... she could still be out of state, she could be at her apartment now... I have no way of knowing.

How can I get beyond this? I know it's only been 2 months, but I seriously don't want to feel like this anymore. I want to be able to be happy again.

NEW INFO: A friend of ours stopped by, gave me some new information about WW and the way she's been living her life since she left... it makes me sick... she's been bragging about the men she's slept with. Apparently she slept with three men in a row one night and happily bragged about it to others...

Maybe it's just time to throw in the towel and be done.

Was your wife a terribly abused/neglected child? Was she molested? She sounds fundamentally flawed.

I think you need to take care of yourself and your son. It seems that your wife has some issues. She left her fiance for you, and now she is cheating with multiple partners.

How was her family of origin? Any abuse?

I would document EVERYTHING and try to get custody of your son.

For documentation: There are apparently pictures of her sleeping with the guy that was her longest affair. He has been incredibly cooperative with me, and I believe he will send them to me so long as we can find a way to keep him out of the drama. I don't wish him any ill; he was lied to by her. That's how she got him to sleep with her. He hates that he was used in that way, and wants to help me. So now I'm going to get a lawyer and file under spousal abandonment and adultery.

As for her past, she was well treated (perhaps a bit spoiled) by her parents. The only thing I can think of is this: They are her adoptive parents. Her mother gave her up for adoption practically when she was born. She's from the Phillipines, and my in-laws adopted her there when she was 3. They didn't tell her she was adopted until she was 18. She was a perfect student, being valedictorian of her class, and apparently never did anything wrong until after she moved out.

She claims to have been raped, once, by a boyfriend when she was still a teenager. Other than that, nothing.

What could be causing her to be so flawed as an adult? Is there anything that I or her family can do? Can we have her committed or something? I don't care if she was upset with me forever for such a thing, as long as she stopped hurting herself.

She came back from her trip on Sunday night and just showed up at my door. She had presents for our son, which she dropped off, but she didn't want to just leave. We talked, calmly, with no arguing or fighting or yelling. She apologized to me for hurting me many times. She was very affectionate. We even cuddled on the couch for a few hours and watched some TV together, while still talking.

Before she left that night, we hugged each other very tightly. She apologized again. Then, before she left, we kissed each other like we haven't kissed in months. It was almost like our very first kiss--shy and hesitant--but it felt so natural. I didn't know what to think about that.

She came back by yesterday. I had something for her and had asked her to come by, but when she got there the power was out at my house so I couldn't show her what I had for her. She stayed with me for many, many hours. She sat on my lap and cried for awhile.. crying about how much she missed when we were friends. I noted the fact that every time we've had problems... every time we've become enemies and turned away from each other in the past... we've always fallen in love with each other again once we allowed ourselves to become good friends again. She smiled, whispered to me to not get any false hope. When I asked her if any hope I had would really be false, she couldn't answer that question.

Later, we lay in what had been our bed and talked about things. I didn't originally intend for that to happen. I had gone in the bedroom to get away from her for a moment and think. She came in and laid down, saying how much she missed her bed. Eventually, I lay down beside her.

At one point, as if I realized how I was feeling and acting, I told her that it would probably be best for her to leave. She said okay and started to get up, saying that she'd leave if that's what I wanted. Of course it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted her to stay with me forever.

I told her she could stay, but that I needed to just go in the other room for a bit and relax. I told her flat out that it was either that or I'd end up kissing her again. Well, she took my hand and weaved her fingers in with mine. Clearly, she didn't want me to leave.

So we kissed again. There was fire and passion in it. Even though it probably wasn't a good idea, we didn't stop there. I made sure to be safe. I'm still going to get myself tested though. I was going to do that anyway.

Anyway, she fell asleep, wrapped up in my arms and the sheets of our bed. I held her for hours, not ever quite drifting off to sleep myself, always floating just at the edge. I do so miss holding her like that.

Eventually, power was restored in our neighborhood and we got out of bed. I showed her what I wanted to show her, we watched a bit more TV, then she left, again with a kiss.

I don't know what to think. I'm wary and cautious, but not yet suspicious. I'm not sure if she's sincere, but she doesn't seem to be trying to manipulate me. I don't want to think that she is, but I can't help but be guarded and watchful.

What should I do now? Where should I go from here?

Not to be rough, but.....Ummmmm, your W slept with 3 guys in one night and another guy slept with her and has pictures, and you WANT her back in your life forever????

WTF???? Hey, do you have any self esteem what so ever? How about your child? Do you think a mother like that is good for him to be around daily??? I just dont get it. *shakes head*.......Im truly saddened by this whole story.

*sighs* I do have self-esteem. Maybe not enough of it. Maybe I'm just too forgiving. Maybe I'm just an idiot. I guess I should just shut up and stop wasting everybody's time.

I'm sorry for being such a stupid, miserable failure of a man and father. I'll stop bothering you all about this.

Look all Im saying is that sometimes a person doesnt know when their WW Spouse has done them a favor. From what I have read, you seem like a nice guy, you can do better than her. One affair is bad, two real bad, but THREE GUYS in one night???? And braggin about it? You sure you want that back? I call that a prostitue myself. Sorry dude, but this is a no-brainer.

Okay Roguex, I am going to be a little more gentle than our friend StartinOver although I agree with much of what he has to say and I DO NOT agree that you are "stupid, miserable excuse for a man and father as you stated".

You most certainly are not and should stop self depreciating right away. You are someone who loved and is in love with a woman with a self destruct wish. You can't change that but you can protect yourself and your children from her and that wish. You do that first, then focus on her and what you can do to help her. I say that because a woman with children that would sleep with three men in one night and so on is morally corrupt. This may be immaturity but I doubt it. It sounds like a classic case of her being sexually abused as a child or having something horrific happen in her childhood and adolescent years. She has not self worth and uses sex as the measuring tool for whether or not she is worthy, attractive or loved. She doesn't know what real love is and is too sick to find out.

You have to accept this and move forward with first protecting your children and yourself from the devesatation of her actions and let the consequences fall directly on her, letting her hit rock bottom and maybe, just maybe she will get it.

Stop kidding yourself, stop thinking emotionally and instead protect, protect, protect yourself and kids and start thinking rationally with boundaries for your WW to follow like getting into individual counseling NOW, not later, NOW!

I am already getting counseling, starting on Thursday. I don't know how I could even begin to convince her to do the same.

No matter what, I'm still moving on. I'm not going to take the events of the past few days as some sure sign that things are changing. Instead, I am just going to watch them and study them while I continue to work towards separation and/or divorce. I'm not stopping in my tracks. I'm not freezing my plans. I'm just confused.

As for her actions: Yes, I think they're deplorable. But I have seen the woman she is capable of being! She can be great, caring, loving, and wonderful. That's the woman I fell in love with! It's the reason I married her! Is it so wrong that I forgive her and want to see that woman again? Is it so wrong that I believe in her and think she can find herself again?

In the end, I just want happiness for myself and my son. I don't care if it's with her, on our own, or with some new woman someday in the future. I just want to be happy!

No, it's not wrong. I still love my WW who cheated on US (not just me, but the kids, families, etc) when our baby was 6 months old with a serial cheater who is OCD, sex addict, etc. but there are now boundaries after I finally became strong enough to let go. We are scheduled for a divorce hearing and custody battle which I feel very confident in in August. I am not "doing" anything to my STBXW but I am holding her accountable for her actions and protecting our children. I wish it would not have come to this but she would have it no other way.

That said,I don't think she is inheritantly "evil" and wish her well for she is the mother of our children although a bad one at the moment. I too saw and married a different woman unfortunately for you and me they are gone and alien WS's have taken over their bodies. We have accept this and move on with life and let the chips fall where they may concerning them. If my WW ever wants or needs or is willing to accept my help in a truthful unadulterated manner then I am willing to help (no sugarcoating, etc) and she must take full responsibilities for her actions and have a lifelong desire to understand why she did what she did.

Love your wife, but hold the alien accountable and offer to get her help. She needs counseling in the worst way. If she will not accept it it doesn't look good for her to recover.

I'm depressed again today. I don't know why, I just am. I mean, yeah. Maybe it's because I miss her. Because I do. No matter what I do, I can't help but still love her and still miss her. Am I upset with how she's treated me? Yes. Am I upset with how she's treated her son? Of course. Am I upset with how she's treating herself? Most definitely. But I know she's better than this and can save herself, if she tries. That's the woman I love... the amazing, beautiful, caring woman that is buried somewhere beneath the alien.

That's the woman I want back in my life. If she can't be that woman, then yes, we're done. I saw that woman in her again though this week. Maybe that's why I'm depressed.

hello there. i'm so sorry you're going thru that right now. and it's really horrible hearing that your WW has bragged about sleeping with 3 different men in 1 night. just doesn't seem right.

your post that she is from the phils just jumped at me. i am from the phils myself and most self-respecting woman from here will never do what she has done.

i think she's being a cake eater. she wants you for the emotional needs she has and she sleeps with many men for adventure/thrill/SF?

ask her to get into IC. she has to get to the bottom of her destructive behavior.

and take good care of your son. your son should be what you are living for.

i wish you the best.

Thank you. My first IC session was yesterday, and it went well. I felt happier afterward. Later in the evening, I ended up going to dinner with the WW and spent some time with her. Things seem to be looking up, as if it may eventually be possible for us to work things out. She's been more affectionate toward me, and isn't afraid to show that affection in public or around her friends. I don't think either one of us is emotionally ready to jump headlong into a reconciliation attempt yet, but at least things are going better.

Her head seems to be clearing, like she's starting to calm down and realize that she's been wrong. I'm wary, of course, and not putting too much stock into it until I can determine how sincere it all is, but so far it seems to be true. I'm not going to expect anything from her or assume anything, but I am not going to give up hope, either.

I dunno. Ultimately, I've stirred things up a bit; parts of Plan A, parts of Plan B, while never stopping in the march toward Divorce. I want to see her do better. I really want to see her accept responsibility for her mistakes and work to make sure she doesn't stray again. I do want her back. I can forgive her for everything, even the worst of things. Right now, she is incredibly lost, and while that is no excuse for her behavior--it doesn't excuse her of responsibility for her actions--it does give me the ability to overlook what she's done wrong and forgive her for it, as long as she is sincerely remorseful and apologetic, and as long as she does show me that she wants to make amends and make things right.

I love her. I'm pretty sure she still loves me, too. I think we can make this work, once we're both ready.

In the end, though, I will be happy, no matter what the outcome.