Where does “Disrespectful Judgment” fit into the forum?

Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, Angry Outbursts, Annoying Habits, Independent Behavior and Dishonesty are what Dr. Harley considers Lovebusters.

We are not here establishing and fortifying “love banks” on the forum. Hopefully everyone is attempting to do that with their spouses, weather wayward still or not.

The problem I have with MB supporters telling others that they don’t want to be DJ’d is that we all have an obvious need here or we wouldn’t waste our time.

Why then would someone submit themselves to the forum unless they wanted to have input that was brutal and honestly judgmental?

I expect you fellow MB’s to give me honest, compassionate, considerate advice based upon your personally beliefs and time tested wisdom.

If anyone was to feel the need to judge my behavior as a BS as being right or wrong I’d like to hear it. I think that sometimes people confuse “judgmental” with “disrespectfully judgmental”.

Calling an orange and orange is not judgmental.

Calling an orange a lazy arrogant selfishly immature orange is a “DJ” from what I’ve come to understand.

Reiteration of past behavior and holding someone to the ownership of their behavior is NOT a DJ as long as it is presented in a compassionately caring manner is it?

As for the religion on MB goes doesn’t everyone have a right to post their philosophy and ideas about it? The religious focus first has helped MANY posters in their recovery as they would readily testify. To others it may be a non-issue or a distraction.

Still, readers have the opportunity to skip over or put possibly offending posters on an ignore list. I presently have a couple of posters on mine just so I don’t have to spend the extra 1.342 calories to scroll past their posts with my mouse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I’ve read some posters say that “Lovebusters” have no place here on the forum and cry like babies when they aren’t getting “what they want” out of their dialogue here. If this is dialogue that needs to be examined by them to find truth then I say it’s practical. If it’s not helpful then they should say so. There is some onus on them to give feedback as to the effectiveness of the approaches that are presented to them if they really want to help themselves.

Some of the posters here that were the most unpalatable for me personally, at the time, have been the most influential in the overall recovery of our M.

As long as posting is done with compassion and empathy seems to be the most important thing. Respectful disagreement is just fine. Respectfully convincing the other party of your point of view is just fine too as long as you are open to receiving the same.

Plank.

"As long as posting is done with compassion and empathy seems to be the most important thing."

But often, it isn't.

Oh well, the ignore list is a good thing . . .

Speaking the truth is good, speaking the truth in a respectful and compassionate manner is better IMO. I don't know what motivates people to come here, for me it is to try to help my marriage. If I can help someone else along the way, great.

After some time here you will know which posters irritate you, put them on your ignore list and get back to marriage building.

As usual Plank, very good, I think sometimes we all tend to get a knee-jerk reaction to what someone may type, we have to realise that everyone comes at this from different backgrounds and life experiences and honesty if everyone agreed with everything we posted and never challenged our viewpoints what would we learn? How would we grow?

Anyway ...

Plank


I think the key component that people are complaining about when they tell others that they don't want to be DJ'd is irritation/anger/annoyance/frustration at having someone else tell them what they're thinking, what they're feeling, what they want. It's very difficult to have a conversation with someone and ask for help when you're standing there trying to explain that they've assigned all these thoughts, feelings or opinions to you that you don't happen to hold.

I think it makes any advice that is recieved much harder to follow and less credible. If someone were to sit there and tell me that I'm feeling something I'm not feeling, trying to accomplish something I'm not trying to accomplish, thinking something I'm not thinking -- THEN go on to tell me what to do differently, I have absolutely no way to use their advice.

And, I'm probably pretty irritated also.


I think it depends a lot on where someone is at the moment. Sometimes brutal and honestly judgemental is simply hurtful and overwhelming. When someone is reaching out for help and feels their hand is being slapped away with an AXE then that might contribute to the overloaded, overwhlemed, feelings of hopelessness. I think this forum has the capacity to be incredibly supportive, uplifting, and helpful. I've also seen it be quite brutal, at times -- almost scary.

Perhaps we should discuss whether people should get what 'they want' or what 'someone else thinks they need.' How important is someone's opinion about what they need to the forum? It might be that they're so close to the situation that what they think they need will just keep them stuck where they are. It may be that they're the best judge of what they need. And, how are people on the forum supposed to figure that out, anyway. (All rhetorical questions, btw)


I like to think of some things as 'straw-man judgemental.' You build up a case for how I am, then you proceed to lambast the construct for all you're worth about how terrible and awful it is. It's not me, but you've assigned it to me. It's my choice whether or not I'll pick up that straw man (and your judgements) or just leave it where you set it at my feet. ("You" in the generic sense, not you, Plank.)

Too many people strap that burning straw man effigy to their backs. Ouch!


Calling an orange an orange is your opinion and holds about as much weight as another individuals opinion of your opinion.


I'm an athiest and I don't have a problem with the volumes of religiously-themed posts on this board. I do fervently wish that people wouldn't assign motives, thoughts, opinions, or ideas to athiests in general because they aren't really true. I find myself (and ForeverHers) often starting threads regarding religiously themed topics, generally because of something that has been asserted that "we" (the great collective athiests) believe that doesn't happen to ring true.

I have no need to pick up the burning straw-man effigy and strap it to my back (so I'm not insulted), but I'm genuinely curious as to why it was constructed in the first place and how it came to be built. Which is how those discussions often start before they end up where they seem to end up.


Yep. And keeping an eye on your own boundaries for what you pick up and take with you is also helpful. Melody Lane said "no one can force anyone to believe anything." And, she's right. Someone else can build up a construct of you and even burn it in effigy. Nothing says you have to pick that thing up and wear it.

Just my $.02


Mys

This has been hashed out over and over again on the boards.

Judgments and criticism are human nature. It's what we do. Disrespect is not. The two can be easily separated with a little consideration.

Often times, even after due consideration, one may choose not to separate the two. So what. Sticks and stones, deal with it.

I have more of an issue with enablers on the board than DJ's. Those who are perceived to have DJ'd a poster are often times hitting the bulls eye.

Enabling 'support' benefits no one but the enabler. A well placed judgement (disrespectful or otherwise) is a relatively harmless perception. If you don't like my perception of your situation, post or character, etc...convince me to change it.

[color:"red"]Too many people strap that burning straw man effigy to their backs. Ouch! [/color]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LOVE IT !

Pep

Thank you, Plank, for this thread. I'm asking for your help, and Pep, Myschae, faithful, and CN.

I've been told I'm wrong before on threads, and it has helped me to see where I still have a grasp on the right/wrong parts of the old me...these have helped me to let go of that need, which was false to begin with.

This week, I didn't hear I was wrong, I heard I was bad, and it has gotten to me really deep. I was bad because of the way I post, not just for what I was saying.

I want truth, not denial...because if my aproach is destructive, I want to change it...and of course, I don't know how to do that, yet.

I thought it was effective...it was how I saw myself helped, tremendously...

And I am open to changing, if one of you could show me the way.

I have that old pain crap in my way right now, so thinking my way out of this isn't an option.

Directly, I was told I pick apart people, every word, and it sounded to me as if the other person felt I was attempting to destroy them, make them all at fault, full of blame, which was incredibly hurtful to them. Someone else believed the same. And they believed my goal was to prove I was right, not help someone I saw as being on a road I had walked.

I wasn't devastated...I did my best to convey my perspective...where the bottom dropped out was last night, in talking with my DH, he said that this person reacted as he did, a couple years ago, saying I picked apart his journals, emails, letters, the same way.

So I have an old-LA and a new LA quaking in her sandals...fearful of doing more damage, being that judgmental person in a new disguise.

Appreciate any feedback...brutal, honest or otherwise.

LA

ba109,

Extremely well said. I am a great believer in Mel's sig line. As I have often said, the concept of the WS "fog" is ingrained here, the much deeper fog( and IMO much more dangerous) of the BS is virtually ignored. Frequently a 2x4 between the eyes , that is often misinterpreted as hostile, is of infinitesmal help in thoughtful retrospection.

TO LA

I only see one thing in your time at MB that has "fleetingly" concerned me

spending much time on one thread & developing a sort of relationship of words with a person of the opposite gender

I've done that as well

just be careful

other than that .... you're just fine

heck ... if you are "bad" ... I am "badder"

LOL

Pep

Oh, Pep...you're da baddest... LOL (My 70's jargon is showing)

I do agree with staying aware of spending much time on one thread with male BS's...I realized I am still attempting to heal what I've done to my DH, by helping someone else in his shoes...

I hear their thoughts, feelings and beliefs when I would not hear his back then...I'm still on the road to redemption. Thank you for pointing out there might be a detour I overlooked.

I talk to my DH and share what these posters say, and he identifies, sometimes, with them...and tells me a little more...tiny bits...and we sit with those bits. What a long process recovery is...and how beautiful.

I will stick to my no email rule and stay aware...and I'm not doubting my conviction that these are God's words, through me...not about my personality...not about me connecting to others...

Thank you for keeping me on your full platter...it's an honor.

LA

Sometimes our styles don't match and we have to back off when all we really want to do is help. I love your style. You are always insightful and thoughtful. I concur with Pep but I see you have that base pretty well covered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BA, thank you. I had an off board discussion about this and I think for the most part I was wrong. 2x4's have their place and I think sometimes maybe I am trying too hard to be PC instead of seeing that some people really need those hard hitters. Mel and Mrs.W, I hope you know you did help me see your perspective.

to LA



I kind of thought that was the dynamic

but also

when I read your posts I "see" that you are largely doing your own healing work ....

you could post most of what you say to a thread directed at yourself ... and that is just the point, isn't it?

I do the same thing ..... especially when I do a "concept thread" ... I am talking to myself

and who can argue with that?

My most useful time FOR ME on MB has been the threads I started in order to discuss something on my mind ... concept / idea .... rather than an event.

Rather than searching for the "what do I do now?" answer to question ... I usually prefer to discuss the underlying principle or the underlying value ... and you do the same.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

LA,

You are a person who speaks the truth, but you always have compassion...when you are picking someone apart, and speak the truth, you also have a heart for them and don't "put them down".

I personally think you do a great job.

I also think each peoples posting styles work for different types of people...I do believe sometimes though there are many DJ's thrown in by many posters here - including me, probably out of frustration with the poster we are replying to, and it's somethng I personally am trying to change about me...how to say my POV and my truth - without DJing the other person..since I have to learn that in my marriage and I have done gooe, it benefits me to learn it in the real world too...and the internet world...

again ... for LA



let me give it to you straight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (as if I could do otherwise)

the higher your MB profile becomes (as you earn your "old-timer" stripes)

you will be a target

get used to it

make peace with it

it comes with the territory ... you will hear

"You think you know everything!"
"Haven't you ever made a mistake?"
"You have not walked in my shoes."
"Just because you are here a long time does not mean your ideas are more valid."

.....

etc.

here's a test .... if you react strongly to criticism ... pick it apart to find what kernel is true ... but spit out the rest as not relevant once you've examined the content of your own innards

Pep

Very very very wise words queen peper...in every arguement, disagreement or hurt I feel, I tend to be doing that lately <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> examining my own innards and picking it apart for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dem some good advice...

not bad for a Canadian

cheap shot

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

the cheapest <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I learn something from every critisizm, disagreement, judgement...I would be silly to think I am right about everything, and silly to ignore that people's defenses are their perceptions and opinions...and silly to dismiss them cause they are not mine...so I find myself constantly taking that it and accepting other perceptions...you see perseptions and POV and being right were the BIGGEST poisons in my marriage...working on balances in all aspects of my life...not an easy task for a know it all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />