Hi, I guess I am in the same boat now as the majority of posters here except it appears that I am just not as smart. Last summer I got the "I love you but I am not in love" "I need my space" and "We are just co-workers" lines from my WW. At that point, I trusted her completely and truly believed that her leaving was a direct result of my character flaws, even though I have always considered myself a consistent and compassionate parent and husband. I took her at her word and was completely devestated by her leaving and beat myself up pretty bad feeling, again, that I had pushed her from me.

Eventually, it all turned to crystal and I guess even though I did everything wrong to try and win her back (before I knew of him) she returned home to me with an apparent new found commitment to me and the future of our family. I truly believe and I think she does or now realizes that she "cheated down" and it ran its course.

I am now having second thoughts as my pride returns to me about my ability to re-commit to her and do the things I need to do in order to guarantee her happiness and the stability of our family.

In short, can someone tell me their strategies used to get over the images, the deciet, betrayal and the feelings of anger I have for tormenting myself for taking all of the responsbility for this.

I hurt that she gave her body to him. It tears me apart that she gave him her heart. I need to know that I am not second best. Pride is sometimes foolish and at the end of the day I would hate to be sitting lonely just me and pride.

It's late and I was about to log out so I'll be brief.

If you are not a Christian I mean no offense, however, my quick response to you is that your perception of even possibly being second best is YOUR PERCEPTION. You are number 1 in God's eyes. He choose YOU for her and her for you. He don't make mistakes.

The OM in the wonderings life (Mrs. Wondering posts here too)...he dumped my wife when things got difficult but I never questioned it. In fact I worked hard in my Plan A to see that he did exactly what he did. OM is IRRELEVANT. The affair has much more to do with your wife's inner-self than OM.

Finally, a question.

If your wife was a crack addict...would you feel second best to CRACK?

Good night,
Mr. Wondering

Mr. W. thanks for the quick words of advice. I have been "lurking" for a few days and see you as a person that gives great advice; however, I am not sure that I fully understand the gist here.

I believe in God and such but I wouldn’t say that I was a Christian as in the going to church every Sunday sense. I give my children that opportunity but for other reasons.

If my wife were a crack addict I would obviously try my best to help her overcome her addiction. I am kind of old fashioned in the sense that "decisions are choices that we have to live with". The fact of whether or not she was able to get “clean” doesnt really excuse her actions of getting hooked. It was a conscious decision, one in which she hopefully understood the risks.

Part II to the story and maybe I am a fool, but at the height of our problems and in order to avoid a divorce that I thought was imminent I committed to go to Iraq by becoming a defense department contractor. It was only after this commitment but about 2 months before I left that I found out about him and it supposedly ended. So though I believe there is no contact. I cannot be 100% sure. We have talked a good deal about the reasons why this happened and I think she understands the importance of open and honest communication regarding our future together. We talk on the phone every day sometimes twice a day.

I went home on R/R last month and had the local Fire Department deliver me in a fire truck more for the kids than her but I could see that she was completely and sincerely ecstatic to have me home. It was an emotional homecoming for everyone. Even the FF's had tears in their eyes.

I guess my question is this. Can there ever be a point in my life where I can put this so far behind me that it will never have happened? Or will I throw this in her face or resent her for the rest of our married lives?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any advice.

I guess my question is this. Can there ever be a point in my life where I can put this so far behind me that it will never have happened?


It happened.

It happened more than 10 years ago for us.

I remember "it".
And, since I do not suffer dementia, I suppose I will always remember.

But the ~way~ I now remember that time of our marriage is different. I remember it as something we went through together and came out victorious .... together.

VERY different

I remember it as THE past ... really THE past ... an unemotional remembering without mental or physical pain or triggers that bother me.

Or will I throw this in her face or resent her for the rest of our married lives?

That is possible.
It depends on the choices you make over the next 3-4 years ... and on how well your wife adjusts to her new not-so-pretty self image.

I do not hurt my husband with his past.

There was a time I did.

No more.

It gains me nothing I want or desire.

There is no point to win-lose fighting within a marriage.

I hope I answered your Q.

Hang in there Mister

Pep

Thanks for that Pep

I wish there were easy answers for me, though.

Yes you did answer my questions. I guess I have some interesting challenges heading my(our) way.

actually

there ARE easy answers

but the results of the easy answers add SUCKAGE to your life ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Are you still working in Iraq? Is there any way that you could hire someone to take your place over there, so that you could be closer to home? I think that as long as you're not 100% certain of NC, it can influence your approach to recovery, assuming recovering your marriage is your goal. There is still plenty that can be done if you're not sure about NC, but it just seems harder to do if you're having to wonder about continued contact at the same time. It's a tough road anyway you look at it though.

Irqpawn,

I don't often get a chance to correct Pep, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> but I do now. There are no "easy" answers but there are sure some "simple" answers. There is a big difference between simple and easy.

No matter what you choose, you are going to feel pain. So what has the most upside? Working on your marriage does, right? You can leave the marriage anytime, but you cannot make it work anytime. Having your family happy, having your W loving you, you loving her and the kids, that my friend is what most people here consider the "UPSIDE". Go for it.

It really is that simple, but don't expect it to be easy.

What steps has your W taken to assist in rebuilding the marriage? How did you find out about OM and the affair? Are things changing now? Change takes time, give this some time and effort. You will know when it is time to let go.

Oh! and listen carefully to Pep. I think I just caught her in the very first and ONLY mistake that woman has ever made on this site. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Also, converse with Mr & Mrs. W, they can offer you some great insights.

God Bless,

JL

Again, thanks to all for the advice

I continually find myself on a "roller-coaster" of emotions. Some very positive thoughts of a future togeter and some very negative feelings of resent. When I went home last month to see my family. I embraced my children and devoted a lot of time to them. It was only after I returned that I realized I had setup an emotional wall between my wife and I. I think that this was more to do with self preservation than anything else. We were very cordial, friendly, and physical, I just didnt let the passionate "in love" feelings develop. I regret that now as it just prolongs the question of "is it there".

I think being here has helped me in many ways. It is almost like a wellness retreat. I have lost 70 pounds in 5 months, my confidence and self-esteem are rapidly returning.
Unfortunately, for me anyway, with this new found self I find myself asking "is it worth it".

My wife has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and I think that she has been using that as an excuse for her actions. She does admit that the A was an addiction and that he basically said all the right things to get her. I had met the OM before the A and I told my wife to watch him that he had the gift of gab and would tell her what she wanted to hear. I guess I was right.

irqpawn,

The roller coaster is normal. The walls are normal as well, but let me offer you a quote to consider with regard to the resentment.


I am not saying you should not feel it or experience it, what I am saying is address it and face the issues, and that may mean being honest with your W.

But, what YOU must do is take good care of yourself, emotionally and physically. You have children that will need to for many years to come. You have a W that may well find that you are indeed the one for her. And you very likely will find that your love for her is very much there.

Be prepared to address these things by taking good care of yourself.

God Bless,

JL

Irqpawn,

It is still very early on for you to expect a quick resolution of your feelings of resentment. What you are feeling is very normal and it does take some time to work through the feelings.

Is it worth it?

You do have children don't you? What do you think their answer might be?

Is it worth it?

Imagine starting all over in another relationship and becoming a part time father. Sooner or later your new partner will show flaws. Maybe not the same as the ones you are dealing with now, but challenging all the same. Don't you think it would be more advantageous to work it out with the mother of your children and remain in their lives full time?

Think of this as boot camp. The affair will break you and bring you to your knees. At times you think you cannot survive it. However, you will rise from it a better man than you could ever forsee. You will build character, compassion, humility, and strength.

God Bless you and keep you safe.

S.

I know that my children (8 DD-14 DS) would want us to stay together, no doubt. I also believe that they are aware of what happened to some degree. Their mother moved out of the house and in with another couple with whom she became friends with through work. They were customers at her business. So basically my WW left me with the children and slept on their couch while proclaiming that she could not live with me any longer as she was not "in love with me anymore" and I was the source of all of her pain and unhappiness. This provided her with the free-time and fantasy world necessary to see OM, not to mention she worked side by side with OM 8-10 hours a day.

I make no mistakes about it. I sincerely doubt that I will be able to go out at the age of 43 and "finally" find my soul-mate. I know that any person I might be even remotely interested will have a history greater than or equal to my own. I doubt the future of another meaningful relationship in my life.

I need to know what they meant to each other and how deep. I have asked many times and she says "I never loved him, never said I love you to him and there was never any talk of a future together". Even though during this whole period she emphatically stated time and time again that "I want a divorce and there is probably nothing you can do to win my heart back" she says now that "It was never my intention to get a divorce" and "through all of this I never expected us not to be together in the future" I am supposed to believe this, I may be a fool, but these answers make no sense whatsoever.

Finally, my personal favorite, "I was just going to have sex with him for awhile, end it and comeback to you". Is that even remotely possible? Even though now she say she believes in the importance of honesty and openness and that I can ask her anything. Can I trust her, or is she playing me like some idiot.

Is it even remotely possible for a wife and mother to leave her children and husband and not expect a future with the OM? And when it ends abruptly should I believe that she never wanted a divorce through all of this?

Please answer honestly as painful as that may be. I need to know.

Hello Irqpawn,

these answers that make no sense whatsoever have been given to almost every BS on this forum.
They ARE illogical, weird, contradictory.
But it's such a general thing that there even is term for it: fog. WS, if they are half-decent people and not total monsters, have to justify their actions. Of course they KNOW at some level that what they do is wrong and hurtful. But they also want it so bad, like a child wanting the cookies that mommy said they couldn't have. They want to be "good". But they also want to have want they want. This conflict generates a lot of thick fog, penetrating the logical part of the WS, and making them utter the weirdest and unbelievable stuff.
Even the WS, if and when they finally come out of the fog, find it hard to believe they ever said such things. My XWH even righout denied ever having such these things! What I wouldn't give for a tape recording sometimes...

You'll probably find some posts all about foggy sayings on this forum. Meanwhile, I'll give you a few gems from otherwise intelligent and well-educated OW (who was my BF):
"I didn't think it was wrong because it felt so good."

Or, when I asked why they had not used a condom:
"I'm not the sort of persons that contracts STD's."

On another occasion she typed (MSN chat) to me:
"Your H really knows how to please a woman. I enjoyed it so much."
When I asked her how she could be so insensitive to tell me this, she answered:
"I'm NOT insensitive!"

I guess I understand the fog part, the addiction et al.

Is possible for a woman to give her heart and body to an OM leave her children, her home and her husband of 16 years for anything other than a promise of a future with the OM?

She tells me there was nothing it was nothing and there was no future. Why would she be willing to risk everything for nothing?

Anyone please!

irgpawn,

You are asking for the impossible. Us to tell you what she was thinking when she abandoned you and the children. Your mistake is trying to understand the past in the context of NOW. Now is where you are and tomorrow is where you are going to be.

So what is she doing to make you think she is serious about remaining your W? How are the kids handling the fact that you are not there? How did you find out about the affair?

What is your W's plan to rebuild the marriage she tore down? What is your plan to rebuild the marriage?

You see instead of asking WHY? right now, you need to be addressing the questions I am asking you.

Please focus on them and I think you will begin to see how you want to address your future.

God Bless,

JL

PS: The "fog" is real. It is absolutely amazing. Years ago there were several threads that had "fog" statements in them and it seemed as if every WS was reading from a script. And yes, it does not make sense...to anyone NOT in the fog.

This is how I found out:
My wife worked at a Pawn Shop in SC. There were 3 employees plus the owner. The PA had been going on for 3 mos when the OM quit unexpectedly in early Oct. My WW was promoted to OM's job as store manager and moved back into the house within a couple of days of OM leaving. The owner found out the OM was stealing from him and started having my wife followed. His PI saw him at her house and he questioned her until she admitted to the A. The next day which was in early November (Saturday the 5th at 10:44 a.m. to be exact) my wife invited me into the shower with her. I'm thinking, along with my manhood, that something good was going to happen. Until she says "I have to tell you something, I slept with ******". We were devastated and it wasn't my proudest moment. The long painful discussions of that day revealed that it was more than once and more than a PA.

My kids miss me to no end especially my 8 yo daughter, she has always been my "Sunshine" and we are very close.

I think and I have asked my WW that we commit to taking small steps and that first I needed to deal with my feelings by her being completey open and honest with me regarding the A. So far I believe she has. WW also said "That she understands that there is no point in lying if we are to move forward". I asked her about 10 mins ago the same Q in my last post about risking everything for nothing and she said "I didnt think I was risking everything, I didnt want it to go any further and I didnt think we would get caught"

I see the importance of developing a plan to address the questions you asked. I respect and trust the advice of the people who have walked down this road before me.

irgpawn,

I have not walked down your road. I came to this site years ago for different reasons. It was a shock to me to realize how little I really knew about relationships and I began learning, reading, and finally registered and started posting when one particular person's story really got to me. Oddly she was a wayward wife with a child by the other man.

She was a mess. Then she sort of dropped out and a few years ago she came on and updated us with her story. It was truely amazing. If you do a search for "facing choices", you can read some of her posts. Some of them got lost in the great disk crash of 2000 around here.

Her last post was probably two or three years ago. Find it and you will some amazing changes in someone that was facing choices.

You do have choices to face yourself, but I would urge you to take your time. Ask your W to do some reading of books or seek counseling and ask her what her plan is to rebuild and protect the marriage. I am sure she does not have one now, but the reality is we all need to think about how we would handle different situations.

I had been a batchelor for a long time, when I married. I knew the party scene and the single's scene very well. So part of my plan was to NOT be in those situations again once I married. I traveled alot especially in the first 20 years of my marriage. I made a point to never go out alone with female co-workers, stay out of bars, and never go where there was dancing. I generally to this day, travel, do my work, eat, and return to my room. I bring books to read and of course work to do. The result? In over 30 years of marriage I have not been tempted to cheat. Not because I have greater will power or a stronger love, but because I had a plan to avoid the temptation.

So when I talk about plans for YOU and your W, this is what I am talking about. You see you also need to protect yourself from temptation at this point as well. You are very vulnerable right now. Don't place yourself into situations where there are temptations so that you can return home and know in your heart you have done the right thing. That is worth more than you perhaps realize right now.

Keep talking to your W, get her to come here if you think she would benefit from it. People here will help her, but they won't put up much with justifications. Reasons on the other hand are something everyone needs to seek.

Well, I must go.

God Bless,

JL

JL .... I disagree ... we actually agree on the difference between "easy" and "simple" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (get it?) .....



ahhhhhhh .... if ADHD were actualy the cause of making bad choices, the state would never issue a drivers license to anyone with ADHD!

as far as "excuses" go ... that one is extra weak!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



WHOA!

were you that big you can afford a 70 pound weight loss?????

are you sure it is not something else????

concerned ~~~> Pep

Yes, irqpawn, I understand what your wife is trying to tell you...Yes, everyone here is right, it is major FOG, but I've been there, so as strange as it sounds, I get what she means, probably much more than even she does right now...

WSs(wayward spouses) are in a constant state of conflict...There probably were fleeting moments when she thought to herself, or maybe even said to OM, "if I knew that this feeling could last forever, I would leave and never look back"...I know, because I said as much, but deep down, I knew otherwise, actually I even said it to OM a few times...I would say, "I really can't imagine a world where there is no Mr. & Mrs. W"...I even thought and later told Mr. W that he and I were just experiencing problems due to career and child rearing years-that I always knew that we would live out our retirement days together-so ridiculous sounding now-but I believed it then-WHOLEHEARTEDLY...irqpawn, the high from an affair is seriously intense...It DOES involve the alteration of brain chemicals, and so it really does have many of the effects that drugs would...Seriously...And don't question how deep her feelings were for OM, because those "feelings" were NOT about OM at all, but rather, about how she felt about herself in a fantasy relationship...A "relationship" that was feeding her dopamine and seratonin levels, based on what she fed it...

Think of your wife as a caged rat that got a fix of cocaine everytime she pushed a button...THAT is one of the most accurate descriptions for an affair that I have ever heard...You see irqpawn, your wife "pushed the button" by feeding the ego of the OM with flowery words, when she did that, he also fed her ego with the same type fake flowery words...Two soul sick individuals living out a fake life...not one bit of it steeped in reality...no shared household chores, no sick children, no bills, etc...all a bunch of false flattery...And you know what, the high is so powerful that the WS and the OP will even lie to each other to get the imitation compliments-MAJOR MANIPULATION...REALLY...One of the greatest benefits afforded to a BS by snooping is that they get to hear just how ludricrous and ridiculous the whole affair sham is...In my case, for example, when I would feel OM backing off slightly, but I wanted my "fix", I would make up just about anything about how poorly Mr. W treated me...Now, I know that you don't know Mr. W, but he is just the calmest, most easy going man on the planet...He has honestly and truly NEVER even raised his voice...but that's not what I told OM, NOSIRREE, I told him that Mr. W was TOXIC and CONTROLLING...I so wish that I had a way to show you just how funny that description of him actually is...WHAT A BOLD FACED LIE!!! But you know what? It worked for me, it made OM feel sorry for me, which in turn made him say all the things I wanted to hear...Yes, I realize how sick, twisted and wrong that is...NOW...Your wife will too, EVENTUALLY, but it will take quite a while, and a lot of internal work on her part...And yes, she will very much want to blame her behavior on her ADHD or anything else that she can...Think about it, would you want to admit to such a horrible thing about yourself? It is a bitter pill to swallow, but it is how she will begin to heal...She must OWN her behavior and REALLY understand it...Figure out what in her allowed her to choose that behavior...It is in doing that, that she will be able to regain her integrity...It is from that, that will come true remorse, not guilt, because guilt is a selfish emotion...From remorse will come repentence...Healing...Which will help both of you...Does your wife read here? Can you get her to and perhaps even post? Being here has been instrumental to our recovery...REALLY HUGE, in fact...

irqpawn, recovery is very much a tandem deal...Try with all your heart not to judge her harshly...I know that is really difficult considering how harsh her treatment of you and your family has been-I know...But TRY to see her as human...Something that went so very far with me, was that Mr. W always told me that he understood, and said that he was just as human as I...that he could see that he was susceptible to having an affair too, that infidelity was very much a human condition...He never yelled, screamed, cursed or called me names...I will always believe that remorse came for me sooner because of the Amazing Grace that he showed towards me...And irqpawn, he reaped the positive effects of that too, you get that right? I have said here so many times how very awed that I am by him...I will remain so for the rest of my life...A recovered/recovering marriage is a completely new marriage-which is what you want anyway...And irqpawn, it is VERY worth the effort...It sincerely is...

I'm glad that you are here, I hope that you and your wife will become a part of this community, and let it work the miracles in your lives that it has for so many others before you...If you work the program, it will work for you...

Best,

Mrs. W

P.S. A big thank you to JL for the vote of confidence our way...irqpawn, should your wife begin to post here, JL is one amazing fellow in posting to FWWs in a way that they really understand...I think he has a really unique gift for that...And yes, I also want to second what he says about listening to Pep...She is a special lady with a very wise soul...

Mrs. W, JL and Pep

Thank you all very much for taking the time to post your comments and advice.

JL, your wisdom, however, gained is sincerely respected and appreciated. I do feel the urge for pay-back, maybe not in the true sense, but more like a strong feeling to be desirable to the opposite sex. This desire pushes me daily in my physical workout routine. Kind of like “Well, your not attracted to me, check out this killer body and see what you lost". I know childish but undeniable.

Pep - I was getting quite heavy, as our marital problems developed I began eating more and doing less as a result of the depression. She actually told me that I was crazy and needed to see a physcologist because of all the jealousy, accusations and mood swings. (even though my gut instinct told me something was going on) So, being the man that wanted to save his marriage I went to one. I spilled my heart out to this quack for 30-45 minutes after which he just breaks out a laundry list of drugs he says he can give me. Unfortunately the ones I took increase your appetite adding to my weight gain. I have quickly returned to my normal weight. In 10 weeks he had given me 4 different drugs of varying dosages. None of them worked. Funny that.

Mrs W. - All I can say about your post is WOW. It would be hard for me to even begin to describe how much clarity and insight your post brings. Your descriptions of the "fake flattery", "major manipulation" of "two soul sick individuals" in order to get that fix makes much sense. It would be like WW saying to OM "Oh baby, I love you so much I want to have your sextuplets", in no way meaning it but getting high from the exchange. That was a bit reaching, but I get it.

A self pronounced lady's man once bragged "I never made love to a woman that I didn’t love -- at the time."

I do miss my family, I do love my wife, and yes I believe that it is worth it! I think today is going to be a great day for me.