For months I've been trying to address with my H the issues that concern me concerning the As he had been in and the things I would like for him to do to win my trust.

I've wanted us to adhere to POJA and taking steps to recover after an A. I had difficulty explaining in full to him what I wanted. And at times I would do it in anger and so on.

So we haven't been carrying it out. Recently a sitch came up where an ex that he wrote an email to around the same time that he was in the 2nd A (earlier this year)trying to be "closer" to her, sent a message to him. I asked him to send an NC letter to her. She has been a problem between us before and I felt it necessary. He told me what to put in it and send it. Also told me he felt I was pressuring him. So I didn't send it.

Today when H approached me for SF I explained to him that I declined b/c of the issues that concerned me. We had a long talk. He was really upset. But finally I felt good that I got it out without anger but just telling him what I felt.

He asked me why do I want to stay married to him. Said I'm always unhappy, bringing up the past. Said he has tried to help me know that he is not the same way that he was and his behavior is different. I told him that there are certain habits that he has and ways of doing things that concern me, for instance leaving the house and telling me he is doing one thing, going for hours, then coming back saying you did something else. (That one really drives me coo-coo).

He replied saying well he doesn't bring up the past. And that he allows me to have our credit cards and he realizes that I'm overspending again and he doesn't say anything about it. I told him I understand that he is trying to move forward. I explained that he felt he couldn't talk to me about our financial situation becuase in the past I would act like a big baby. And I understand that he is trying to move forward.

Then I tried to give him our credit cards but he refused. I told him I want to earn his trust and I want him to earn mine too. I told him that I feel he shouldn't trust me with our CC again until I show him I'm more responsible and this is somethig I've wanted to bring up but was afraid to. I still have problems overspending and I need to be accountable.

But I told him I can't feel safe in our M until we both are working on this. Him working on his issues and me working on my issues. He said he feels like this(my bringing up the past) will go on forever and he doens't see why I want to be M. I'm so unhappy.

I felt finally heard and free from feeling like I'm always holding in what I think. But he left angry and without a word to say. Now I'm just wondering what in the heck I should do next. Maybe I should've just not said anything and worked it out little by little. If you have suggestions on maybe what I did wrong or how I can take my next step please tell. Thanks.

LLG,

It's very hard to negotiate conditions for recovery/reconciliation once the A is over and the BS just wants to forget the whole thing. That's kinda where you are. The foundation for your recovery was not laid....so now you're scrambling to back track....and to your husband it appears as though you just keep bringing up the past. It's a tough spot to be in. But all along....your fear of losing him.....has kept you from making the assertive moves that would empower you. Your fear continues to hold you back.

Your husband has had two affairs, and he still has fuzzy marital boundaries. You don't feel safe....because you aren't safe. Don't let him make you feel insecure and crazy because you're still nervous and jumpy about what he does. Nothing has changed.....so why wouldn't you feel that way. However.....remember that R talks feel like a root canal for a WS. Showing your insecurity and bringing these issues up everyday....are going to work against. That's not fair....it stinks....but it's true.

Seems to me you've got a couple of choices: a) Concentrate on your Plan A and make your marriage/you attractive so that you can move to a Plan B when you need to. Or b) Move to Plan B now with "conditions for reconciliation" that take care of the nagging worries that you have.

After my H's second indescretion.....my conditions were pretty brutal. I was prepared (and not that upset to be honest) to let him go if he was unwilling to make the changes that would create safety and a foundation for a good marriage. If you can't imagine life without him....you are in a very vulnerable state.....and he knows it. He'll use that information to continue to act independently and your marriage will revisit these issues in the future.

Where are your boundaries chere? What is the limit of your tolerance? If you say you won't stay with someone who can't make safe....but you do....what does that say?

((((((((((((((((((((LLG)))))))))))))))))

Star*fish,
Thanks for replying.
What's chere?


It is extremely difficult to negotiate now. He feels like I'm just hounding him over nothing. It has taken me this long to get the courage to say what I feel I should. Now, it is like it won't work or it won't be adhered to.

I would like to Plan A a little longer, but I have an definite no-no about continued SF without some type of negotiation. I feel used when he dosen't adhere to transparency and doesn't committ to doing a few small things that will help me feel more secure. This is a problem b/c without SF he acts as if he is going to loose it.

I feel dishonored to indulge with him when he wll not meet a few simple terms. Also, I've contracted an STD. I told him I want him to be tested. He keeps saying, ok I will call and make the appt. It has been weeks now and he hasn't done it. So I asked him, would you like me to do it and he says I'll call. He still hasn't.

Maybe the question should be how in the world do I establish boundaries when he won't adhere to the things I'm asking for. He wants to do things his way. And I guess I want the same. If I adhere to boundaries I'll be in Plan B very soon.


I'm starting to develop an aversion for him in this way and I know that will not help hte matter.

There are absolutely no boundaries set. I'm trying to get them establsihed. I feel we both need them. Me for my financial issue and him for the R insecurity issue (and some spending issues with him to, just to a less degree than me).

Also I want to establish a Plan A in Plan A and I just find that difficult also.

LLG,

Thanks for replying.
What's chere?

It's a cajun french endearment that doesn't have a good English translation....and us folks from Acadiana use it in many ways. It can mean "you poor little thing" or "cute little thing" or "precious person" or "adorable baby"...it's hard to explain. Unlike the English "dear" which can be used sarcastically....chere is always loving and sympathetic. The folks from Louisiana pronounce it like "sha" (short <a> sound like in "cat"....shag, without the "g")

Quote:
It's very hard to negotiate conditions for recovery/reconciliation once the A is over and the BS just wants to forget the whole thing.



It is extremely difficult to negotiate now. He feels like I'm just hounding him over nothing. It has taken me this long to get the courage to say what I feel I should. Now, it is like it won't work or it won't be adhered to.

Part of that is because your window for negotiation has closed in a way. The time to get conditions negotiated is during discovery when you have some leverage. You've already proven that you'll stay with him without those conditions being met....so they seem unecessary and controlling to him now. When the second affair ended....what agreements did you put in place to protect your marriage....or were you so afraid of losing him that you just demanded no contact....but didn't implement a recovery plan.

I would like to Plan A a little longer, but I have an definite no-no about continued SF without some type of negotiation. I feel used when he dosen't adhere to transparency and doesn't committ to doing a few small things that will help me feel more secure. This is a problem b/c without SF he acts as if he is going to loose it. I feel dishonored to indulge with him when he wll not meet a few simple terms. Also, I've contracted an STD. I told him I want him to be tested. He keeps saying, ok I will call and make the appt. It has been weeks now and he hasn't done it. So I asked him, would you like me to do it and he says I'll call. He still hasn't.

The STD thing is just awful!! (((((((((LLG)))))))) It makes recovery so difficult! I don't blame you for not wanting to have sex until the tests are complete. This is what I mean about conditions for reconciliation....this should have been done BEFORE you would be willing to work on the marriage and WHILE he still had enough remorse to complete the task. Again....enough time has passed that he thinks you'll stay whether he does it or doesn't.

In general....the sex issue after an A is a tough issue chere....because what you need to feel emotionally close (intimacy) is transparency and safety....and what he needs is sex. You need emotional intimacy and he needs physical intimacy. You're essentially pushing him away and rejecting him....at the same time making what <he> considers demands after excepting reconciliation with no terms. This is not a good cycle. I'll be honest with you (and I hope some men will weigh in on this issue) but to a man....it will appear that you're using sex to control him....and he'll rebel against that. Talk a little about what your sexual relationship was like before the A. Has this been an ongoing issue in the past....or did you relate well before the A? What do you think his perception of your sexual relationship has been.


Maybe the question should be how in the world do I establish boundaries when he won't adhere to the things I'm asking for.

Boundaries have nothing to do with him or what he'll adhere to. They are about what you will tolerate and what you won't tolerate. You have no trouble making boundaries....but you don't enforce them. You expect him to protect you....but you aren't willing to protect yourself.

He wants to do things his way. And I guess I want the same. If I adhere to boundaries I'll be in Plan B very soon.

And maybe you should be....because what I see is an unrepentant wayward spouse who still has fuzzy marital boundaries, isn't open and honest, won't protect even your health and still expects to get sex. Sounds like a messed up situation to me....and really unsafe for you.


I'm starting to develop an aversion for him in this way and I know that will not help hte matter.

There are absolutely no boundaries set. I'm trying to get them establsihed. I feel we both need them. Me for my financial issue and him for the R insecurity issue (and some spending issues with him to, just to a less degree than me).

Also I want to establish a Plan A in Plan A and I just find that difficult also.

What kind of counseling have you two had? any?

"What's chere?'

Sweetheart, or darling are close. It can be used like you'd talk to a young kid (come here sweetheart) or as a sign of affection or love between partners.

It's an endearment. Not always meant as a sign of love...often meant as a show of sympathy or empathy as well.

I get it right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Star*fish,


Yes, pretty much. I just asked for NC and asked for details here and there. But occasionally I would argue about it and bring it up in weird ways. Like if I was watching a movie and something hurt my feelings or something like that.


So it seems that my only options are to keep complying when know I finally feel secure in myself to say, "I'm not taking it anymore". So what is left? In your experience if this looks like control would it look bad to meet his other needs and just walk away keep away from him sexually? Even though he darn near makes that impossible.


Before the As SF was pretty good and often. Afterwards I started not liking it so much. A lot of times I felt like I was being treted as if i were inferior or less than. I mean he must've thought I was something less to be with OW then have the audacity to come back to me. So I felt kind of dirty, I guess you could say.


lol, I just caught this line. I didn't see it the first time. Yes, I guess it does seem pretty messed up. I guess my fear is that he won't come back to me if I do. But maybe my fear is one I need to deal with and move on.


I had 2 sessions with an woman who had made a bad impression. So I haven't been back. I asked him to go with me and he refused, before I went to this IC which was a MC.