Gale, Steve Harley can guide you through this and tell you what to say to get her in counseling with him.

It is important that you stick to your plan and stop allowing her moods to drag you all over the map. She is a FALLING DOWN drunk right now and will be up and down, back and forth. She is confused! See, she didn't expect you to be kind and loving or to fight back in a rational, reasonable way, so now she is totally confused. She will stay confused and erractic for a while. JUST EXPECT IT.

Yes, she is having second thoughts. That is an EXPECTATION. That is why I want you to speak to Steve Harley. He can counsel you through this and he can also tell you what to say to get her into counseling.

I agree you will have to PROVE to her that you can be an attractive partner. Assure her that your old marriage IS DEAD and you do not want that marriage back again. When she says, "I don't want to go back to what we had," AGREE WITH HER. Tell her you don't either.

Have you been going to AA meetings? Have you found a sponsor yet?

Gale, have you explained the concepts of Marriage Builders to her? Namely, how it is possible to fall back in love when lovebusters are eliminated and emotional needs are met? CAN you explain this to her? This is what she needs to understand and this is why I really want you to hook up with SH.

What a day. I am not a wreck, but I am really feeling beat down. She called him this morning. Of course everything went to ******, and she whipped right back into full affair fog mode. I was so heartbroken.

I HAD to go to the store and do paperwork. I hadn't done it for two days, and It has to be done. I was an emotional mess while I was doing this, just wanting to talk to her. As soon as I could, I went to her house, and you could see it in her eyes. Yesterday, she was sincere. Yesterday she really wanted to try. Last night, she was struggling, and I should never have left her house. I should have just stayed. But I can't stay forever, I have to clean up sometime. I had to put it in god's hands, and she dropped the ball. So quickly too. I knew that this could happen, but it made me sad that it happened so soon.

She was a wreck. Her nerves were going crazy, and she was shaking and carrying on. She got mad at me, because I didn't try to hug her, "He would have tried to hug me, but you just p**s out." I hadn't tried to hug her, and I don't know why. I didn't realize it was yet another test. Note to self, when she is calling you names, and telling you she wants you out of her life, hug her. I talked to her, and talked some more. OM kept trying to call, and she didn't answer for the longest time. She was physically ill, and I was concerned for her. I had asked her if she wanted me to stay, and she told me yes. When he called her and she answered, she told him that I wouldn't leave.

He was upset, and she let him talk to me. He started chewing my butt, and told me that since I like to "lecture" my wife so much, he was going to lecture me. He started in on me being an alchoholic, and a verbal abuser, and how I didn't deserve to have a chance with my wife. I gave it right back to him, and told him that she was my wife, and I had a right to try and hold my family together. He started saying things like he was going to come up here, and teach me a lesson, and I asked him if he was saying he wanted to kick my a*s. I told him that I already told her that I would take a beating for her so bring it on. He starts trying to tell me that it isn't right that I won't let my WW take our son around him, he isn't trying to replace me. I told him that I was protecting my son for their affair, and that they had no right to expose him to that. He ended up hanging up on me.

She is madly in love with this OM, and he of course thinks that she is his "soul mate". He called back, and she went upstairs for the longest time. I realized the time, and thought I ought to call the lawyer to tell him that it was back on full swing, even though nothing has happened yet. I called up the stairs, and asked her what her lawyers name was. She wanted to know why. I said it looks like were going ahead with the divorce, and I want to let him know. She wouldn't tell me. She came down, and looked at me and said that it looks like I might win by default. I don't believe it. He pulled out his pressure card. Of course HE is not pressuring her, but HE told her that if she gives me a chance, he will have nothing to do with her ever again. Making sure she knows that the door won't be open if she comes back.

Now her physical condition continued to get worse, and she was having trouble breathing, and her chest hurt, and she is numb all over her entire body. I was really getting concerned, and I finally talked her into going to the ER. It appeared that there was nothing wrong, and she said it was a waste of time and money, because it was all in her head. The next thing I know they want to keep her over night. Want to run some tests in the morning, and get her a good night sleep. Wow. She told me that if they find something wrong with her, please call OM and let him know.

So now I missed one day of work because of this, and it appears that I might miss tomorrow too. I don't want to lose my job over this, but I will if it saves the marriage. But if is doesnt' save the marriage, then what?

I have explained and explained and explained to her that her love that she says is gone, can come back. She just swears that I was NEVER the man she needed me to be, and she cannot see how I ever could be. She doesn't see how I can meet her needs. I explained that I have been meeting some of them, and she is seeing that. I tried to negotiate with that in mind. She losses her house in two weeks, and she doesn't have anywhere to go except to OM's. I will not stand for her to take my son there, so she is stuck. I explained that if she moves home, she will have financial security, and a roof over her head, and she can be a mother, and she won't have to go to work right away either. She can be there for our son when he comes home from school. I know that this appeals to her, but not at the price of lossing OM. Guess we'll have to see what happens.

She told alot of people that she was moving back. She was genuinly excited about it. Now I hope that this will encourage her to stick to it. I don't know what it will be like if she actually does still move back. She (and I am certain that OM has put this in her head) is convinced that I will never let her leave this marriage. She believes that I will kill her before I would let her go. I told her that we can get our lawyers together, and negotiate an agreement. That if she honestly works on the marriage, and after a certain time frame is certain that she will not love me, then I will let her go. But of course OM would have already been done with her, so she won't have anyone.

PlanB is on the horizon, but not sure what will happen before then.

ugh! Gale, please ask her to never speak to that creepy scuzbag in your presence again. That is extremely disrespectful and hurtful to you. There is nothing you have done to deserve that and taking part in that only fuels the insanity. She needs you to be the SANE one now since SHE IS NOT. Next time, ask her politely to not take OM's call in your presence. He is a creep who cares nothing about your W and especially your child. For him to complain that he can't be around your child is is breathtaking in its chutzpah and callousness.

Are you drinking and have you been back to AA? Gale, your recovery in AA is the first step in correcting this mess and restoring some sanity to your life. Not only do you need this for yourself, but you need this for your marriage. She cannot even concieve of taking you back until she assured that you are in recovery because alcoholism is the BIGGEST LOVEBUSTER of them all.

Please get back to some meetings this weekend and find yourself a sponsor. Even if you have to call the AA hotline and ask them to assign one for now, you should do it.


She is very distraught, as you can see, and she needs a strong, STABLE SANE presence to guide her out of this morass. Keeping your emotions under control, acting sane [this means NOT talking to the OM and asking her politely to not speak to him in your presence] and being supportive are all attractive behaviors that she needs to see. She needs to be assured that your old marriage is DEAD and you are committed to a NEW ONE.

Believe me, you are miles away from Plan B. If you went into Plan B right now, she would say YIPPEE!! Please keep your focus on these 3 things:

1. protect your child and finances

2. your alcoholism

3. executing the best Plan A you can

I am still sober, and amazed that I haven't had really any temptation to drink throughout this ordeal. I actually think that the ordeal has my mind so busy that it don't have time to tempt me. I have found one AA meeting on Sundays, and I am going tomorrow. I don't want this mess to threaten my sobriety. First things first, and if I drink, I ain't no good to my family.

It appears that the stress is getting to my WW. The tests came back negative, so there isn't anything major wrong with her. She's possibly cooking an ulcer, and she is smoking way too much.

Went to the hospital, and brought her home to her house. I stayed with her all day, and took care of her as best I could. Cleaned her dishes, and did some laundry. Let her sleep.

OM told her that I am like a cult, and I am brainwashing her. She is so worked up now, because she says the scars from the verbal abuse are too deep for her to feel safe with me. She says that OM is trying to protect her from me. I tried to make her understand that I am doing the same thing. I told her that I am convinced that she is going to get hurt, and I am doing my best to prevent it.

She is very weak. I fear that she is having a nervous breakdown. She just wants me to leave her alone. Stop talking to her about saving the marriage, and let her have peace. I tell her that I cannot let her down by stepping back, and letting this man have her. I cannot let this affair destroy our family without doing something about it. Talking to her is about the only thing I can do, so I am doing it. I am not brow beating. I swear. But she says that I lecture her. Well at least the OM does. I think he is the brainwasher here, and I can't get him to shut up. I can't get her to stop calling him either.

I am doing my best to be a sane, rational man. I am showing her that I have changed, and that as a sober man, the anger and abuse are not a threat. I know that if anyone has been abused, it is very traumatic, and she shows all the signs. It makes me think that maybe it went too far, and she can't let me close. But then I am certain that there are others that have had recovery from abuse as well.

I know you don't trust our councelor, but I asked WW if she had talked to MC about the effects of the abuse. She said she hadn't. Now if the abuse was the single most devistating thing in our marriage, why hasn't she brought it up? I don't want to diminish it. I am ashamed of myself, and I want to own my own sh*t. But, it just seems that when one excuse is not working, they come up with something else. I also know for a fact that the abuse was not an everyday thing, but she says it was. I think that she was in a state of mind that my mere presence felt like abuse to her.

Like I said, I spent the entire day with her and my son. We are planning on going shopping together tomorrow to get school clothes for our boy. I wonder if she will feel up to it. I am certain that she is talking to OM right now, and who knows what he's filling her head with.

I got her to think about giving us 30 days. I know that isn't much time to start working on a marriage, but it may show her something. She is stuck right now, and she isn't going anywhere. She is losing her house and job in two weeks, and she isn't looking either. She is coming down to move back with me, or move with OM. I will not let her take our son down there.(this of course is how I use my son to keep them apart)(I really am a SOB ain't I) this leaves moving in with me. I told her yesterday that if she gave us reasonable time, and really tried, I would let her leave if it didn't work. I will not give her the same deal on a thirty day trial. I'm sure that she is trying to figure out how to keep OM around while she moves back in.

My WW is in so much emotional pain right now, and my heart goes out to her. I don't want her to suffer, but I am not causing the pain. She thinks I am, and she thinks that if I just leave her alone, the pain will go away. I am planAing her as best I can. I will think about how I can do it better. Got a big envelope full of legal papers in the mail today, so I will call the lawyer monday, and ask him what we do now. Even if she does move back, I want to get some sort of agreement in the works.

Gale, you are doing a great job taking care of her. I don't know how much of her grievances are real "abuse" and how much are manufactured in order to justify her affair [very common in an affair]. Only you and she know for sure. It might be a good idea to go read up on lovebusters and take an honest assessment of how you have treated her. All you can do for now is avoid lovebusters and do your best to take care of her.

A good read for you would be the book Lovebusters by Dr. Harley. It has a chapter on alcoholism that will be helpful.

I would avoid setting any kind of time limits, because taht can be a set up for disaster that may blow up in your face. For example, it may take her 60 days to come out of her fog. If she only commits to 30 days, then she write you off with your permission in 30 days. It takes what it takes and I assure you that you wont get far in 30 days just knowing the usual pattern of affairs.


See, i would not tell her you "will let her leave" or make any kind of bargain like this. First off, she is not an endentured slave and can leave anytime she chooses. If she does leave, it should NOT BE WITH YOUR SON and should not be with your blessing!

Secondly, I would not EVEN ENTERTAIN the notion that this will not work. Don't even SAY THAT. Simply REFUSE to discuss any alternative other than your marriage working out. Tell her you won't discuss seperation or divorce, you will ONLY DISCUSS recovery because you know that you can have a great marriage. You must be a BROKEN RECORD in this regard.


See, if you had not decided to take a stand and PROTECT your son from this man and this sleazy affair, there would be nothing to stop her. You can pat yourself on the back for putting a stop to that. Just continue to tell her that you will not allow your son to be exposed to this man and her sleazy affair. That is a splash of reality that she needs to hear!

How does she feel you are "causing pain" right now? By interfering in her affair? By exposing her affair and by taking legal steps to protect your boy? How exactly does she feel you are "causing pain?"

I believe that she pretty well blames me for the spot she is in right now. It seems that everything is somehow my fault, and if I had been the man she needed, none of this would have happened. It is such a mess, and her nerves are getting worse. She is visibly shaking quite a bit, and if I say anything about us, or the affair, or moving back, or really anything, she starts gasping for breath, and holding her chest.

I went to her house this morning after working at the store, and she was a wreck. I was wanting to have a good day, and I wasn't going to bring anything up, but it always comes up anyway. My mom called my cell while I was there, and I talked to her in the other room. My WW asked me to get off the phone because it was rude of me to talk about her in her house. I thought that was funny considering her consideration for my feelings on friday. She just kept telling me that I don't understand. I would really like her to make me understand. She says that the fear of coming back home, and me taking another drink is too much for her. She fears that if she comes back, and I start up again, she will be lost forever. I can understand this fear, and I explained that I don't want that to ever happen to her. I fear that drink more than she does, and I have to make sure I never take it. But, I cannot guarantee that I won't take it. I cannot promise her that I won't take it. I can promise that I will do everything in my power to not take it, but there is no certainty for her. I am still new to sobriety, and there is a lot of room for doubt on her part. I have to consider this as a legitimate concern, and I have to find a way to persuade her in spite of it. I still think that OM is working her up, and making it all worse than it was(the fear, not the abuse). I told her that I think HE is the one brainwashing her, and that made her mad.

Despite all the pain she still wants to be friends, and doesn't believe that she can ever find that love for me ever again. I told her that the simple fact that she wants to be friends is all the hope I need to believe that the love can be restored. She didn't like this, said she was trying to reach out to me and I start up again. I said that friendship IS all I am asking for right now, and I continue to have hope because of it.

We went shopping for school clothes for our son, and it was sorta up and down as far as her mood. On the way home, she took the long way(she still won't let me drive) and tried to explain once again that there is no hope for us. But she did it a little different, and said that she should have got a divorce before taking up with this man. She really seemed to listen to me this time when I explained why I filed for divorce, and why I feel that our son needs protected from this relationship. She actually said that if this guy wasn't in the picture, she might actually be willing to give us a chance. Now what have I been saying all this time? I didn't respond to that comment harshly. She was thinking, and I didn't want to screw it up by opening my mouth. I tried to make her understand how strongly I feel about protecting her and our son from the man I have been in the past. When we got back to her house, she looked in the phone book trying to find a number for Al-Anon. Now these are all good signs I know, and it gives me more hope. I told her that I will ask tonight about al-anon, and see if anyone can point us in the right direction.

I did have a set back, and I hope I didn't blow all of the day's progress. Our son had a melt down, and I tried to hold him because he was flopping all over the place, and then he ran away from me saying he was afraid of me. This just about broke my heart, because I have never hurt him, and I don't know why he acted that way. I know her stress has had him uptight, but he was running from me, and I told her that I didn't know what to do. I am upset with myself for asking for her help, when I am trying to portray myself as a better man, who is capable of taking care of problems. This one slipped by me, and like I said, I hope it doesn't work against us in the long run. I know that everything I do, is held up against OM, and he does no wrong.

Why is it whenever I try to talk to her, I am giving her a lecture, but she is just telling me how she feels.

I have been thinking and thinking about how I am causing her pain. I caused her pain when I found out who this man was despite her best efforts to hide his identity from me. I caused her pain when I exposed the affair to a list of email addresses that was attached to one of his emails. I caused her pain when I filed for divorce because I was trying to take her child away from her. I cause her pain every time I talk to her about ending this affair, and working with me to restore our marriage to health. Basically I cause her pain when I attack the affair.

So I must be doing something right. She is unfaultering in her argument that it is not an affair. She did not love me for a long time before this man came into her life. She was done with me, and did not want to stay married to me. She had left our home and separated from me. BUT, she never once said it before he came into her life, and I CANNOT believe it is true because of that. Even if it is true, I reject it because even after he came into her life, she continued to tell me that she wanted to work on our marriage. She did this right up until I asked her if there was someone else, and she admitted to it.

Her own dishonesty has led to this affair, and my calling it that upsets her so much that she feels pain. So what pain am I causing? perhaps what I say and what she hears are two different things. Perhaps, when I call it an affair, she hears me calling her a dirty little adultress. She says there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, but she doesn't fight me about keeping our son away from OM. She knows what she is doing is wrong, but she doesn't want to believe that she is a bad person. I don't want her to believe that she is a bad person either, but calling it an affair tells her that I think she is, at least that is what she hears.

OM seems to want to think that he is her hero, saving her from the abusive, drunk SOB that I am. Protecting my wife from her ****** husband who is hellbent on destroying her completely, and having failed so far is trying desparately to hold on to her. I can't believe the nerve he had talking to me the other day like I was some stranger bugging his woman. You are right. Don't talk to him anymore. Don't give him the pleasure of even trying to talk down to me.

She is stuck. If she goes to him, I will not let our son go with her. If she goes to me, she thinks I will destroy her. I told her that we need to find her a place to live, because I don't really want her to come back unless she is willing to give us a chance. I am actually struggling with that right now, because I cannot let them out in the cold. I will let her back in if she comes to me. I never asked her to leave in the first place. Unfortunately, I will not be able to trust that OM will be gone if she does. He says he will be through with her if she comes back. For some reason I cannot trust that he is a man of his word. perhaps I should not let her in unless she writes a NC letter. Perhaps I won't have to struggle with the problem at all. this morning she was telling me to just take our son because she wasn't doing him any good by the shape she was in. I told her that he needs her. I told her that she needs to keep it together for him.

So how am I causing her pain? Am I driving her insane with my attempts to save our marriage? Am I destroying her nerves with my heartfelt talk about how we can restore our marriage to something that we only dream of? Or is she causing her own pain by fighting against me, and what she knows is possible? She really seems to think that she has found something good in the OM. I know, I know, but this is what she believes, and it is really hard to compete with. She believe that he has brought something out in her, that I never have. The thing is I still see someone that doesn't seem too happy with where she is at. One could make an argument that the reason I don't see it is because when I am around the happiness fades. One could also say that perhaps the reality of the mess she has made is beating the he*l out of her inside, and she is about done for.

She is hooked on OM, she doesn't want to lose that feeling. I DO understand that. I am an alchoholic. And as an alchoholic, I do so understand about holding on to something that is destroying everything around you that you hold dear. I understand that to stop drinking I needed to be hit upside the head with a Mack truck. I needed to feel so much pain that I cried out to god to take it away from me. I needed to hurt so bad that I begged god to save me from myself. I don't know how much she can take, and I don't want it to kill her, but her Mack truck is rolling in, and I have to step out of the way and let it hit her. This is one of the hardest things for me to do. I want to protect her. I want to save her, but I know that i cannot. For years she enabled me to drink. She kept making excuses for me. She enabled me to destroy her spirit, and how do I repay her, by letting her suffer. After all, that is what she should have done to me.

My poor WW. What have I done to her? What devistation have I brought upon her wounded spirit? I want so much to make it all up to her. I crave the opportunity to hold her and tell her that it will all be OK. All she wants me to do is leave her alone. This I cannot do. I have to keep showing her my love, and asking her to save our family.

Gale, you are correct that much of the "pain" she talks about is self inflicted. It comes from the realization that she is doing something wrong. Very wrong, and she knows it. That being said, I think it is good that you call it what it is: an affair, but try and stay away from saying anything bad about the OM. Yes, he is a creep, but when you say that it makes her defend him. And that is the last place you want her to be.

I agree that she should be scared of your drinking again. But she really needs to see a concerted effort on your part towards recovery or she SHOULD BE scared. You spoke about changing shifts so you can hit night meetings. How is that coming along? And did you get a sponsor??

You mentioned that she wanted to go to Alanon? Will she go there? And what about asking her to go to an OPEN AA meeting with you? Would she do that? I think if you get her involved in your program of recovery, she might feel better. But until you start hitting regular meetings, working the program with sponsor, she should be scared of you.

Can you get her to move home? That would deal a huge blow to her affair.

Should I let her move home even if she insists on continuing the affair? That is my struggle right now. She told me again that she wants to be my friend. She wants to sit down to coffee with me. I want that too, but I won't have it if we divorce. I won't be able to do that. But, if I stop telling her that friendship is what I need to build on, and just start building on it, PlanA might work. If I let her move home, she cannot feel trapped. She of course would be free to leave any time she wants.

We started getting stuff out of the store this morning, and she and I were looking at stuff that brought back memories. If I get her to move home, we could do the same thing here. Perhaps we could really make contact. I am starting to think that I should encourage her to move home with no strings attached. If she wants out in a month, she can leave, but no time limits for recovery. No mention of recovery right now. Tell her that she needs to work on her, and I need to work on me, and then we can deal with us.

I will approach her with this as soon as I get back to the store, and see what she says.

I asked for help finding a sponsor last night, and talking with a man, I decided to ask a man in my town that might be willing to do it. He has been burning the candle mostly by himself at the meetings on Sat. night, because noone comes. I will go next saturday night, and talk with him. It might just be me and him, but that could be very good.

I got a number for her to call about al-anon, and i hope she uses it. If she is home, it will be easier for me to show her that I am really working on me.

I am going to third shift at the first of september, then I can hit some more meetings and also see my family more.

Thanks again for helping me. You are a true godsend, and I don't know how I could ever repay you for your patience, and guidance. Pat yourself on the back. You deserve it.

Yesterday, when I got back to the store, I told her that if she cannot find a place to live, and she still wants to consider it, I would let her move home with no strings attached. She thanked me for that, and didn't say much else. I also approached her with an idea I have had for a long time.

She is a NASCAR fan, and this saturday is her birthday. Even before the affair came to light, I had been thinking of getting her tickets to the race at Bristol for her birthday. She has always wanted to go, and I thought it would really make her happy if she could. She was hesitant, and said she would have to think about it. A little later, I called her and told her that I figure she is scared to go to the race with me, and since I want this for her, I think she should go, and take her friend from work with her. I said I would NOT buy a ticket for OM, but she and this other girl have been joking about going to this race for months, and I thought they might enjoy it. Now this made her consider it.

Last night I texted her and asked if she had asked this girl. She told me that they were getting excited about it, and then my FIL calls and tells her that they took MIL to the hospital. So now she doesn't want to buy tickets only to have her mother pass away, and have to miss the race. I understand that she is very afraid of the let down, and she may feel a lot of guilt if she goes to the race while her mother is dying. This morning I talked to her, and told her that FIL is always exaggerating things, and he wants her to feel guilty for not being there 24/7. She told me to buy the tickets. So now I have ordered them, and I am holding my breath that I didn't get ripped off, or that they won't show up or something. I really want her to have a good day, and I want her to have it without OM. I know that this is a big part of my offer, but like I said, if he wasn't in the picture I still wanted her to go.

I have to wait and see what will come of my offer to let her move in. I don't know how much she is talking to him. I really don't have any idea because she ain't talkin, and I ain't askin. I am doing my best to be her friend right now, and show her my love in the ways she will let me. I will need to figure some things out if she does come home though.

Well, this is the reason I wanted you to counsel with SH, because I think this might be a great opportunity for you to inflict a huge blow to the affair and to more effectively conduct Plan A. It will infuriate the OM if she moves home and cause great conflict.

However, she cannot expect you to live with her while having an affair. Nor are you her "friend," but her husband. If she wants to end her affair and work on your marriage, then you should allow her to come home. However, if she is looking for a flop house while she carries on her affair right under your nose, she is looking in the wrong place.

So, it really depends on HER, Gale. But under no circumstances should you allow her to come back just to make it easier to carry on like an alley cat in heat. Not only would that be the height of cruelty to you, but would cause her to lose all respect for you.

Great job on seeking a sponsor. As he will tell you, more meetings are going to be necessary. The ladies I sponsor have to go to 90 meetings in 90 days! [my nickname is satan! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />]It is a very effective introduction to the world of Sane Living! I dont know if I mentioned it, but I am a 21 yr member of AA and have the greatest confidence in its steps. I want you to have what I have before you lose anything more. And thank you for your gratitude, I am more than happy to help where I can. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think one of the reasons she declined your offer to a Nascar race is because it is too long of a time frame to be stuck with you. She would be obligated to be stuck with you for hours and the thought scares her.

Instead, try to woo her with SHORTER dates that are very close by so she can escape if need be. She won't be so scared to take that chance.

In the meantime, work very hard on attracting her back by avoiding lovebusters, doing your best to meet her needs, and by demonstrating a COMMITMENT to program of RECOVERY for your drinking. She needs to see proof that you are safe to return to and not just talking crap like we alcoholics are so good at.

And most of all: please stop agreeing to be her "friend." You are her HUSBAND and will not settle for less. The reason she says she wants you to be her "friend" is so taht you will be NICE and not object while she destroys your marriage. That is WHY she speaks of being your "friend." So, tell her instead, that you are her HUSBAND and not her "friend."

I will leave you one other thought: in every dealing with your wife ask yourself "am I more or less attractive than the OM?" EVery time you lovebust her you make the OM look good; just remember that. And since he does not have the benefit of MB, he will eventually start lovebusting her as she draws closer to you.

This whole friend thing has been a real pain for me. Of course I am still learning to shut my mouth. I do want to be her friend, and her husband. If I cannot be her husband, I will most likely not want to be her friend either. I see what you mean. Friend does not mean husband, but husband does mean friend.

Now as for lovebusting. I wonder if I did it today. You know that I offered to buy the tickets for her to go to the race. This morning she wasn't sure about it because of her mom being in hospital. FIL says it was bad, but he does blow everything out of proportion. I told her that he is going to say anything to make her feel guilty for not being there 24/7 so she told me to buy the tickets. They are supposed to arrive tomorrow.

Now this evening she seems upset about the whole thing. Seems that the stress of driving 8 hours to get there and all the walking, and two women alone, is just too much. She was actually trying to make me feel bad for forcing her to go to the race. I started wondering if I didn't push to hard for her to go. I am wondering if I haven't done this before, thinking I was trying to be nice, and really pushing something on her. That has to be a love buster.

We were texting, and she just kept going on and on about all the stress she is under, and I don't understand. I told her that I want to help any way I can, but it doesn't seem to do any good. She went to our councelor today. I know, but she will not look at Harley, and I do believe this woman wants to save our marriage. My WW trusts her, so this is where we are. All she told me about the session was that MC helped her discover what her real fears were. She also said she needs to find a home and a job. So I guess that they decided it is not a good idea to move home right now. I wasn't happy to hear that. I do want to get her here to planA her big time. I guess I will find out more tomorrow. Even if she finds a place, she will need help moving, and I will be the one to do it. Gotta take care of my family any way I can.

I am trying to look as good as I can to her. I think I am doing pretty good about lovebusters, but I still talk to her too much about our relationship. The dust has not had a chance to settle around here. I want to just have the chance to PlanA, but things are still very raw from the exposure. She will not forgive me for it, she was so so hurt by that. I think she is milking it. Like I said, it seems that every time I deal with one problem, she develops another one. I want to attack the affair, but not constantly. I want to love her, and make her feel safe.

It bothers me that most of the time she sees me, I am not dressed very nice, because my work is very dirty, and my work clothes aren't very flattering. I do my best with what I have though, and the fact I have a job makes me better than OM. I haven't done my best to look attractive to her for a long time. Her rejection led me to feel that it didn't matter. I would try to look nice, and get no reaction. It is such a mess that we have made.

So patience is the word for the day. I was feeling low earlier this evening, so I asked god to help lift me up a little. I feel a little better now, so I know he's still listening.

This might be annoying behavior, but not really a lovebuster, but I think you may be onto something here. She may have agreed just to avoid upsetting you. Not a very good approach at all.


She will forgive you. And if she keeps saying she is "hurt" by this, tell her you are "hurt" by her affair. She is hurt by the natural consequencess of her behavior. You are hurt because you have been victimized by her affair. So please don't generate any inappropriate guilt for exposing her, she will just use it as a weapon against you.


Do you see how the MC is working AGAINST your marriage and not for it? This is exactly what usually happens with an inexperienced, unqualified counselor. She is counseling your W to do what is best for herself, and not neccessarily what is best for your marriage. She doesn't understand infidelity and can't treat it. Please consider calling Harley if you want to save your marriage, Gale. Even though your W might not come to counseling, he can guide you out of this morass.

hehee When I talk about being attractive, I mostly meant ACTING in attractive ways. Of course, that would include looking attractive, but mostly it means acting in ways that will attract her back by making you more attractive than the OM.

On the Nascar thing, do you think you were too pushy about that? Do you have a track record [pun? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />] with that?

I was pretty certain about what you meant by being attractive to my WW. I also know that she has told me quite often that she is not attracted to me. Remember, she said that when she looks at me, she sees the boogyman. I know that my actions will speak much louder than my outward appearance, but I also want to look physically attractive to her also. I have lost 35 pounds throughout this experience, and she told me that I look sick. Now I didn't think I looked that bad, but 35 pounds is a big difference. Last week she told me what calogne she likes, so I got some. Of course a little demon in my head told me that now I probably remind her of OM. I also think that if I get uniforms for work, she will find that much more attractive even when I am going to work. She always liked me in my work clothes in the past.

Now about the track record. I do think that there has been a pattern throughout our marriage where I believe strongly about something, and she gives in. I believe that buying our house was the ultimate example of this, because she seemed to go along with it, but once we moved in, she constantly berated the house, and me. She didn't like it, and wished we had looked at others. She told me once, that moving here was when she lost respect for me. Taking a good hard look at myself, I never meant to impose my will, but I see where I have done this time and time again. I don't think it is all me. I think that she just gives in too easy to shut me up, then gets her jabs in later. Last sunday on the way home, we were talking about getting stuff out of the store. I had mentioned that we might as well just start moving out in broad daylight since it seems the whole town knows that we have sold. She wanted to do it at night after we close because she didn't want everyone to advertise it. She made a comment about me not thinking it mattered, so we might as well do what I want to do. I scolded her. I told her that one of our problems has been her giving in to me when she wanted something else. I told her that we cannot have that in a good marriage, and it must stop. I told her that I want US to decide what is best for US. So, I have opened my eyes to yet another thing that has served to destroy our marriage. Armed with this knowledge, I will strive to keep it from happening.

I talked to WW briefly this morning, and what I got is that the MC is concerned for my wifes physical and emotional health. Our little trip to the hospital last weekend, was a classic sign of an anxiety attack. The MC has experience with this, and I am certain is trying to give my wife options for reducing the stress in her life, before it kills her. It's sorta my catch22. I don't want to kill my wife, but my plan has called for putting her into a very stressed situation. I know that it can either make you or break you, and perhaps the MC feels that it is breaking my WW. I will schedule another appt with MC to try and explain my plan better. Don't know if it will help, because I will not get my WW away from her now. I will call Harley, I was afraid to spend the money, because I will have to charge it. I am breaking my bank, and I can't spend much more.

I can't tell MC to councel my WW in any certain way, but if I can make her look at the affair the same way she would look at an addiction, perhaps she will change her approach. If I can make the MC understand that I am not causing my WW's pain, but the affair is, just like my WW didn't cause my pain, but the alcohol did. Perhaps she will start treating my wife like the addict that she is.

It is not easy being the only one that sees her this way. I don't know if it's the hollywood effect that makes people seem to think that it is just fine for this to happen or not. My WW just keeps telling me that her friend doesn't think this is an affair, but I know that if this woman was in my shoes right now she would definitely know that it is.

Thanks again, and congratulations on 21 years. There was a woman who recieved her 7 year token last sunday, and you could see the pride in her face. They were also talking about a man with years of sobriety who slipped, and blew his brains out on his sister front porch. God how I fear this beast.

You are not alone, so dont despair. Most thinking, rational individuals know very well what an affair is. If the "friend" were a thinking, rational woman, she would know it is an affair. Perhaps she could use a dictionary? An affair is an affair. There is no way a rational person could view it any other way. She is just not a bright gal.

I am VERY GLAD that you are going to call Harley. I think he can help you assess this situation and give you an effective plan to reach your wife. He is a genius at reaching wayward spouses, if they can be reached. And I suspect she can be reached.

I see some pretty common behavior patterns on her part that are typical in spouses of alcoholics. They agree to things they don't really agree with and then blame the party that effected such agreement. I suspect, though, that she developed this defense mechanism because you weren't exactly a peach when you didn't get your own way. I know I sure wasn't. But that does not excuse her from owning her own decisions. Instead, I see her blaming you for everything. Just as she is blaming you for having to face the consequences of her affair.


I think she is encouraging your wife to act like a victim, which only prevents her from taking an honest look at herself. Granted, she does have some grievances, but playing the victim will not empower her to overcome these issues in a sane and productive way.

See, there is a huge difference between "hurting" because someone actually harmed you and "hurting" because you have to face the consequences of your actions. This MC does not seem to know the difference. Your W is embarrassed because her wrongdoing was exposed, not because you exposed her. If you exposed that your wife won a million bucks, she wouldn't feel hurt, would she? Of course she wouldn't, becuase the action you exposed was not embarrassing.

Went to talk to the pastor today. He is a nice man. He listens to me, and makes a few suggestions, and he prays for us. We haven't talked about religion much, which is good, because I know that we don't see eye to eye. I am planning on taking my son to another church with me this sunday. It will be the first time I have gone to church in about twenty years. It will be the first time I ever went because I wanted to. I don't feel like I need to go, but I would like to find some place to meet people, as I am not really the outgoing type, and god knows I don't want to go to the bars. I also figure that I might be able to build this relationship with god a little better in that environment. Who knows, we'll see.

Anyway, I asked the pastor what he would do if I came to him as a practicing alcoholic, complaining of my problems. Would he try to make me feel better about my problems without addressing the alcohol? or would he just tell me that until I quit drinking, there is no solving my problems. This is what my WW needs. I must make that plain to MC.

I didn't get to call Harley today, I plan on doing it first thing in the morning. I got busy with the store, and then had to rush to work. Gotta get better at managing my time.

I did have a nice conversation with WW this evening on my break. Didn't talk about much, she did mention that she is proud of me with my drinking. She is also proud of the way I have been with my son. I know that I always felt like I gave him plenty of time, but she says I never got involved. I did get involved as long as I had beer along. I am being a much better father, and I have a lot to learn. I want to be involved in his life as much as possible. I did mention to her that she can still come home if she wants to. She thanked me for that. It is nice to just talk to her, without all of our crap getting in the way.

Just called Harley's office. I got an appt for 6am next wednesday. First available one. I do hope that he can help me with this. I am counting on it.

Haven't talked to my WW much today. Yesterday, I couldn't get ahold of her all afternoon. She said she fell asleep, and almost missed picking up our son from school. I don't think I believe her, because she didn't get to see OM last weekend, and That is probably where she was at, but I won't let that bother me. Why should I expect her to be honest with me right now. I will let her lie, and let her believe that I accept what she tells me. It does me no good to fret over these things. As long as the affair goes on, I have to live with the knowledge that she is going to see this man. In fact, to get where I want to go, she will have to probably see much more of him. Don't know for sure.

These last few weeks have just been a whirlwind of emotion for both of us, and I am really hoping it will settle down a little so that I can better implement PlanA. I do so want to toss some carrots her way, but the effects of my sticks have been many, and I feel kinda ragged.

I am doing my best not to reach out to her. I slip sometimes, and text her just to say hi. I just want contact with her, and I think she finds it annoying. I have to find a way to get my mind off of her sometimes, because it does seem almost like an obsession. I cannot let myself do things that might frighten her away from me. I have to be stronger, and more confident with myself. I love her so much, and I let that cause me to feel this sense of urgency when I need to find patience. I will pray for help with this, and have faith that God will.