That is the right attitude, Gale! I am PROUD of you for not telling her to prove it to your boy. I know that took some effort, but it is a typical example of how sarcastic we can be sometimes. The problem is that it does not help you, which I know you know.

Am glad you are praying for guidance and peace. The more meetings you go to, the greater your peace. Do you talk to your sponsor? Do you like him?

She did it again last night. Sent a message that said, "I will deny this if you repeat it, but our relationship was not so bad compared to this.". This was a suprise. I didn't know what to say to her, but I offered her some moral support. Told her if she wanted to talk to go ahead. She said she couldn't talk, but she wasn't happy.

This afternoon, we texted some more. She is depressed and miserable. she feels lost and alone, and she doesn't know what to do. I told her that I wish I could help her, and I suggested she talk to our MC. She said she doesn't trust her, she doesn't trust anyone. I said I'm sorry to hear that, that I care about her very much, and if she needs a shoulder to lean on, I am here.

I worry about her, but I know that she has to take her own journey. Perhaps she'll get a clue, but I cannot count on it. My mom about went nuts when I told her what she said. I think mom's afraid I will just take her back, and I will be miserable.

I don't think she is going to come back right now. I told mom that I want WW to understand that the door is open, but my life doesn't depend on her return.

I must admit that I haven't been talking to my sponsor as much as I should. I don't know what to say to him most of the time, and I still have this hang up with bugging people. I know that he has agreed to be my sponsor, but I still feel uncomfortable calling for no good reason. I have tried to call him at least once a week, and I am sure you will say that is not enough. I do like the guy, I just have a problem with calling I guess.

It is hard to get to know a sponsor, I fully understand this feeling. But try and stick with once a week phone calls or coffees. Are you going to STEP MEETINGS where you have a turn to talk? What type of meetings are you attending?

I would have to say that some of your good Plan A is getting through!! Just stick with it a while longer. It is working, Gale!

Meetings I have been to are mostly lead meetings. On Wednesday and on Saturday morning, I have found a couple of open discussion meetings. Most Step, and Big Book meetings are too far away to get to.

Of course when I do open my mouth and talk, I feel like I am saying the wrong thing. I then spend the rest of the night thinking about what I should have said, or what I shouldn't have said. I over analyze everything. But then I decide that if they don't want to hear what I have to say, they can ask me to leave.

It ain't like I'm going in there telling anyone what they need to do to stay sober. The other night, I wasn't going to talk, but something made me. I figure if my higher power wanted me to say something, then he was the force that made me. I simply related my experience to a newcomer. She was sitting there doubting whether she is an alcoholic, but doubting that she can stop drinking if she is. I simply told her about the spiritual experience I had, and how God has kept me sober since. I also told her that I cannot let myself believe that God has "cured" me of my alcoholism, and that is why I am going to AA. Sooner or later, I will probably have a desire to drink. When that time comes, I want to have somebody I can call.

I am staying in loose contact with my sponsor, and I have a couple of people that have taken an interest in my sobriety. I am trying not to pressure myself so much, and I am trying to get my b*tt in the seats as much as I can. And above all, I am staying sober.

I still have a wait and see attitude with WW. I guess that she got into it with the OM the other night, and she turned to me for comfort. But hey, whatever works. It gives me the opportunity to PlanA her a little, and we'll see where it goes.

We texted a little today, but it was all about our son. I didn't say anything, and neither did she. The fact that she texts and ask ME how he is, instead of texting HIM like she was before, is probably a good sign. I ain't counting any chickens yet.

First things first.

Again with the text messages. Yesterday she sent one that said, "I can't do this anymore please help me somehow". She also tried to call, but I missed it. Today, she called while we were at my sisters house having mom and dad's anniversary dinner. She wanted to talk to our son, so I told her we would call her back. I called on our way home, and let our son talk to her. They talked a little while, and then he ended the call by saying, "I know you don't want to talk to daddy, so I will just let you go."

She called right back. I don't know why. I don't know if she wants me to say or do something, but I am not going to do it. If she wants me to ask her to come home, she is going to have to wait a while. She complained about having only $20 left, and her back is giving her problems, and she has these bills that need to be paid. She complained about missing our son, and how the post office is not going to hold her mail any longer. I told her she can have her mail forwarded to our house if she wants, or get a post office box. She said that don't make sense if she is down there. I said to have it sent down there then. I said that she needs to call her lawyer, and have all four of us sit down somewhere and iron out our agreement.

Never once did she indicate what it is that she cannot do anymore, or how I can help. I think she is being stubborn, and expecting me to take care of her. Again, I am not going to do that. She wanted to know if there is any money left from the store, and I told her that I am not done with everything yet. I haven't given it to the accountant for taxes yet either. Seems that what she wants is money.

She says that she doesn't want to come back to our town because of the rumors going around about our son's paternity. I told her that the whole town is not talking, and the select few people that are talking don't matter to me anyway. She of course thinks that these rumors will destroy our son's life, like parents will talk to their children, so they can tease our son at school. I believe that she actually thinks this will get me to let her take our son down there to protect him from those rumors. I'm sorry, but why in the world would I do that?

She is really in a bad place, I cannot help her if she doesn't want to be honest with herself. I cannot let her disfunction threaten my own progress, and for that reason, I haven't been reaching out to her. I have tried to let her know what is going on with our son, but she wants me to feel like I haven't. She says that she always prompted him to call me, and to let me know what was going on. I have done the same thing, but he doesn't want to talk to her. Yes, he misses her, and he wants her to come home. She wants to believe that he doesn't want anything to do with her. She let's her feelings get hurt by and eight year old child. I told my mom that she really needs to grow up.

I know that I am anything but perfect. I know that I have a long way to go, and a long way to grow. I am working on myself, and even though I would like to say everything is going great, I still get in my way sometimes. As I learn to really let go, and to really let God have his way with me, I see definite improvement. I see good things as long as I remain open to his will. When I start to get selfish, and I slack off on my program, I start to feel bad about things. It is good that I notice this. I now know what I need to do when things aren't going right. I have found a way to acceptance of the things that I cannot change.

I still want to save this marriage, but I will never get her back, until I let her go completely. I place her in God's hands. I pray that he looks after her, and helps her find her way.

Gale, the good thing about all this is that you are not allowing her manipulate you. I am surprised that she uses so many manipulative tactics and that she believes they will work. Is this something that has come out since her affair or has she always been this way but you are just seeing it now because you are sober? I am very relieved that you can see it for what it is and don't fall for it.

While you don't want to allow her to manipulate her, you can try and do things with her that will attract her back. Such as, inviting her out for a family dinner. Do your best to attract her back, and show her you have really changed. Expose her to the newfound sane outlook of Gale!


This is probably why you are thinking so clearly and handling this very well, Gale. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One of the things that I was dreading has finally happened. WW's mother died today. WW is sad, but she was prepared for this, and she has been seeing her more lately. At least she shouldn't feel guilty for not spending time with her. She came up to see our son this evening. She was coming up even before we found out about MIL. We spent a lot of time looking for WW's good clothes out in the garage with all of her stuff from when I moved her out of her house.

When she arrived, I was cooking supper. I offered to make her some, so she took me up on it. As she was eating, she told me that OM is going to stay away from the funeral. I said "good", she got upset and thanked me for the food and left the room. I thought to myself "here we go again". I left her alone, and after a while I went to help her look through her stuff. We got along rather well.

She told me that she saw some chickens this weekend, and all she could think about was when we used to have chickens, and how happy we were then. I really hope that these thoughts can keep coming to her. I did my best to be kind, and not critical at all. I feel pretty good about it right now, just because that one little incident didn't turn into a problem, and the evening went well. OM is going to stay away from the funeral home, so I don't have to be the bad guy about not wanting him there. I think I did some good planA work.

Now I have an opportunity to be with her this week. I hope that we can keep up the good work. I am thinking about offering to cosign the lease on an apartment if she will come back to town. What do you think about that? Thought I might pass it by my lawyer anyway. maybe as part of the agreement. I told her we really need to settle that agreement, but of course this week is not going to be a good time to get it done. I will try to talk her into moving back though. She said she has to give the post office an address, and she might as well give them OM's.

I don't want to ask her to come home, but she knows that she ought to be closer to our son. She also knows that I still love her, and I am willing to forgive her. She apologized to me for our little argument last week when she brought our son home, and I apologized to her also. I hope that this is a good sign about what is going on in her head. I know that I can encourage good thinking by being kind, and caring about her. This is what I am doing.

nononnononono! If you do that, it will only make it easier for her to stay out there by PROTECTING HER from the consequences of her choices. She NEEDS to experience the consequences of her choices, Gale. That is the best thing for your marriage and the best thing for your son! It will also put you in financial jeopardy when she can't pay the rent. She must get a job and pay the rent HERSELF. Cosigning her lease might garner some fleeting gratitude, but it will go away quickly and will only HARM your chances at saving your marriage. Don't DO THIS!

Instead, work very hard on making yourself and your home an attractive alternative. That is what you want her to think about. If you help her get an apartment, she won't have to consider that option at all.

Sorry to hear about your MIL. It is good taht you will be there to help her through this. Just don't let your sympathetic feelings impair your judgement, ok?

I know, I shouldn't sign that lease. I also thought about my last post on the way to work, and I can see how a few good hours can cloud my judgement. What is this power this woman has over me? Mom thinks it's all manipulation to get something. I don't know. I feel very sorry for her right now, and I love her. I will do my best to keep my head on straight. I was pretty sure you would say don't do it, and it seems to help me when I have someone else tell me not to do something. I can then say that I was "advised" against it.

She is feeling very alone right now. I fear that it only encourages her to stay down there. I seems that all of her friends around here have abandoned her. She doesn't hear from any of them. But if OM is so wonderful, why is she so sad and lonely? We spoke briefly today, she talked about how all of her family is gone. I told her she still has a family, and I got the old "you don't understand" line. Oh well, I tried.

Gale, just keep reaching out to her so she views you as a safe place to land but don't allow her to manipulate you and don't protect her from the consequences of her choices. Her feeling alone will draw her to you if you don't step in and save her in a negative way. I know that you are seeing this because you do have very good instincts about her manipulative behavior. The thing is that she doesn't have to feel alone and I see her reaching out to you more and more.

Her life is crumbling all around her and the OM won't be able to save her from this much longer. This does not bode well for her affair, so I would suspect it is crumbling.

Well it seems that at least you have some faith in my instincts. Seems to me that my vision is more hindsighted. Can't help feeling like a sucker sometimes.

I really did enjoy seeing her last night. She was still very negative, but there were little bits of my wife in there. She woke up today with a chest cold. This of course feeds her negativity. Absolutely nothing is going right for her. I still fear that she will just give up, and try something foolish again. I listen to the people that tell me that this is her choice, and I cannot change her. I know, I know, but my heart still feels it. I want to save her. I have handed this over to God, and I trust that whatever is to be will be. I sometimes wonder though if I really want her back.

Can't help but feel that if she does come back, what I am going through now is going to end up being the "easy" part. Wonder if I have what it takes to see this through. I am not going to worry myself too much about it unless it happens.

And my mother thinks that OM will hold on to her for dear life at least until he gets his hands on her money. We'll see about that too.

We'll just have to give her lots of hugs this week, and show her that I am there for her.

That was one of the more painful experiences in my life. Not the funeral, but being so actively ignored by my WW. It really hurts when someone goes out of their way not to look at you, and that is what she did all night last night. I am so upset right now, that I want to send her a plan go to h**l letter. I took it, because I wanted our son to be there, but I was so ready to go back to the hotel, pack my things and come home. It just shows me how little regard she has for me or my feelings. I am the last person on earth that matters to her. Or at least that is the way she acts.

I am tired of it. The disrespect has gone on for a long long time, and it obviously is only getting worse. She cried and cried today. Of course she would, her mother, the last member of her family, is gone. But on the way back from the cemetary she said "my family is all dead" I thought to myself what the heck are me and my son? chopped liver? She seems to have taken selfishness to a new level.

At the cemetary, she didn't want to leave. It was really cold and windy, and the pastor came over and spoke to her for a while. He prayed for her to allow Jesus into her heart, and only that would help her find peace. The words that he used were actually kinda spooky. Later she asked me who put him up to it, because what he asked for in his prayer, is exactly what she has told me time and time again she needs in her life. I never spoke to this man about our problem. I like to think that maybe God had something to do with it. Needless to say, as he was praying I thought that all it would do is make her mad. Maybe it will make her think a little too.

As my son and I were leaving, I gave her a hug. It was about the only one I was allowed to give her while I was there. I told her that I was probably the last person that she wanted a hug from, but I was giving her one anyway. She said thanks, she told me that I was there for her. I was there for her when her dad died, when her brother died, and now her mom. I told her that I love her. I looked her square in the eye and told her that I love her. She said "I know" She was sobbing. I left it at that. I got in the truck, and said to myself "I was there for you alright".

On our way home, I stopped at the cemetary and took a couple of pictures of the grave. I sent these to her, and she sent back a text that said thanks.

I asked if she is still checking her email, because I haven't even tried to send one since she went to OM's. She said yes. I am really wanting to send her a letter. I just don't know what to say. In a way I want to chew her a new a**hole, and in a way I want to ask her to come home. In reality, I am not going to do either, but I want to communicate with her somehow. I would like her to know how I feel about this whole thing, but I don't want to drive her deeper into despair.

Why oh why do I still love this woman? She has broken my heart time and time again. Yet, I still love her. I have been there for her time and time again, and I get nothing but grief. Life is way too short for this. I think I need a meeting.

ohmigosh, you did an absolutely beautiful job today, my friend. You made bookoo love bank deposits today by being there for her. You are truly the lighthouse in the fog! The OM was not there and this did not go unnoticed. As you said: "She said thanks, she told me that I was there for her. I was there for her when her dad died, when her brother died, and now her mom."

The OM cannot compete with that, Gale. He is not there for her. He has no history with her. He is not extending a helping hand and she sees this.

I am also very hopeful about the prayer the pastor with her. That is exactly how my H became a changed man. He accepted Jesus into his heart [he was caught unawares in just the same manner] and he has never been the same. We can only pray that this same thing will happen to her.

Gale, its funny but you are despairing and I am cheering. What you have written here gives me more hope than any other post you have made. You are growing in leaps and bounds and turning into a man with a solid rudder who can lead his wife out of this morass. And she is seeing that. SHE IS RESPONDING. Just give her more time and she will come out of the fog. You have become her lighthouse. You did good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the words of encouragement. You have helped me tremendously. I am still a little low, but you've helped me look at things from a different angle. It just hurts so bad.

Perhaps I did make some deposits in her love bank, but she sure made some withdrawls from mine. My love bank must be minting it's own coins, because it should have run dry a long time ago. I told my mom last night, while WW was ignoring me, "I just wish she didn't look so good". My mom told me that I will get over that sooner or later. Looks are only skin deep. I know it's not just her looks that keep me loving her. In fact, I doubt that would be enough. I just know she's got a good heart in there somewhere under all the crap. I remember how she used to be.

I'm thinking of just sending a note that tells her that her family is not dead. That we love her, and are waiting for her.

Thanks again, Thanks for everything.
And I thank God too!

Oh Gale - you did so well, I canot endorse ML enough. You have flooded her love bank. Now her FOO is gone she will need a lot of love and understanding. This is a threshold in her life ... I know she hurt you when she said her family was gone, but she was in pain and doesn't know the term FOO.

You did good and so did the pastor - God whispers mighty strong when the time is right.

Even the OM did good, he stayed away.

Linda

How did she used to be? And how long has it been since she was like that?

p.s. I hope you are hitting a meeting soon. The poor me's can easily turn into the "pour me a drink!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That is what my sponsor used to tell me! Isn't that the corniest cliche'? lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As a matter of fact, I went to a meeting tonight. And I have heard that same line as "Poor me Poor me Pour me another one" I didn't feel like going, but I felt like I should go. (Does that make sense?) I've heard that the ones you don't want to go to are the ones you need the most. I went, I feel better. I wasn't struggling with wanting to drink, but I sure do struggle with the stinkin thinkin.

How did she used to be? We didn't have a perfect marriage. But she genuinely loved me, and I could tell. Warm, nurturing, caring, forgiving. Good and kind, always willing to do those little things. I'm not sure how to describe it exactly. And we could talk. We would talk and talk. Talk about anything except matters of the heart. Then we would get defensive. As time went on, I think we tried so hard to be married that we started to lose our friendship. Resentments grew, and I, being the alcoholic that I am, LB'd the s**t out of her. She of course returned the favor. (she had her flaws too, but I have chosen to omit them at this time.)

We bought this house in 94. By 96 we were having problems. The A's happened in 97 and we both went to he*l from there. We both tried at different times to turn things around, but we never tried together. We would get our feelings hurt, and give up again. By 98 we had that store, and our son. I believe that we both used these as an excuse to stick it out and try, but we never did a very good job of it. She has been a warm and gentle loving mother to our son. She has tried to protect him from my drinking problem as best she could. Unfortunately, she doesn't see a need to protect him from her bad behavior now.

If anything, she is too sensitive. So am I. But I love her warts and all.

So this morning I get woke up by the phone ringing. I answer, and she asks if she can have our son for the weekend. I sat there in silence for a few seconds and she got upset, and said "never mind, my mom just died, but you aren't going to let me have my son". Then she hung up.

I make love bank deposits, and she just spends the dang things.

I made our son call her this evening. He didn't want to, but I told him that mommy was sad, and maybe he could cheer her up a little. I didn't listen to the conversation, but I hope it helped.

I haven't heard back from her all day, so I don't know how she is feeling.

Doesn't sound like this tactic has been too successful for her, does it? I'm not sure what in the world her mother's death had to do with the issue, but its introduction didn't help in setting up weekend arrangements.

What kind of visitation does she have now? Does she even have a place she could take him for the weekend?

We still have no legal agreement signed. Our lawyers are doing a good job of writing back and forth and getting nothing done. I told my lawyer to set up a meeting for all four of us to get together and get this settled. If she wanted to go to his school and take him she can, and that bothers me.

The tentative agreement restricts her from taking our son around OM. Until it is signed there is no such restriction. Just me refusing to allow her to have him if that is her plan. She has nowhere to take our son except OM's, and she is doing nothing about moving back to our town like she said she wanted to. That is because she doesn't want to. I don't know what she thinks she will do for visitation when this agreement is signed, but then I don't know if she is even aware of the restriction. She has just sat there doing nothing for more than a month now. No job no nothing.

I would say that her mothers death was just an excuse. She figures that I am feeling sorry for her, and I will be more likely to give in to letting her take our son there. If she could actually convince me that there would be something beneficial for my son in going there, I would be more likely to consider it. But her desire to have him there has absolutely nothing to do with our son or his benefit. It has everything to do with her narcisistic desire to have him with her to make her feel better at his expense. This, to me, is a little twisted. Further evidence that she is sick. She is so selfish that she cannot even seem to consider our son's needs. She swears that she had every intention of killing herself that day. Can anyone be more selfish than that?