I understand how many apply their personal experience as to how the affair started. I have a good handle on how affairs start and I do not disagree. However, those circumstances that appear at the beginning of the affair must match the make up of the potential wayward spouse. I believe I have a personality that is not prone to affairs. It has nothing to do with being more moral than anyone else. I also admit that I could have an affair, but the circumstances would have to be quite extraordinary. Enough said.

Nevertheless, what I did is wrong. This concept of tempting the devil (figure of speech) is like playing with fire.

The good news is: I will have no difficulty stopping this because I have no attachments or emotional investments. In fact, I feel like a fool that has been labeled as the infidel without actually committing infidelity.

As for PA versus EA: IMHO, a PA is 1,000,000,000,000 times worse than an EA.

A PA takes the emotions to the next level. The physical contact cements the deal. In fact Dr. Fisher suggests that the coitus increases the obsessive component to a new high. It is also possible that the semen deposited in the copulation canal contains hormones that promote this high.

I still believe it is much harder for a wayward spouse to turn off the love for OP and then return to the betrayed spouse. This has got to be a very hard thing to do.

A betrayed spouse that has not given the heart away to another person would have a much easier time accepting the wayward spouse. The only barrier to this is pride.

Perhaps my opinion is colored by the fact that I do not fall in love very easily. I believe that there are many folks in the planet that fall in love very easily and therefore can swing from partner to partner with those lovey dovey feelings.

Stanley,

Yes, some people do fall in love more easily... they have love/relationship addiction issues.

I understand your pain. I've only been in love twice. Once with H, once with OM.

Although I "fell in love" with OM, I do not experience caring feelings for him anymore.

What we experienced together was not love, even if I had the feelings of "falling in love" at the beginning of my A.

It was pure fantasy.

I never want to see or speak to OM again. EVER.

I will truthfully admit, however, that I am still vulnerable when it comes to OM.

I broke NC and talked to him when he cornered me about a month ago. I informed his W (who did not know about the A) afterwards because I needed to put extreme measures into place to remove him completely from my life.

His W also deserved to know, and deserved an apology from me.

As a side note, when I first met OM, he told me he "fell in love easily." He has had multiple As.

KM

Maybe you are looking at an affair R as love, and most of us have come to the realization that it is anything but love.

Given enough time or big jolt of reality (which ever comes first), a WS realizes this as well.

However, I see your point when I look at it from the perspective you are.

Stanley, how often do you email this woman? Is it once a day? Several times a day? How are you planning to stop?

Let me just go back to what my EA was for a moment. For 6 months, the OM and I emailed and I did not believe it was an EA. For the first 6 months, we expressed no emotion toward one another, but yet there was an "emotional connection" because we were "investing" time and thoughts into each other's lives. We had an emotional "investment" because we shared about our marriages and our personal lives and gave each other advice. I did not believe it was an EA during that time (how I viewed it then). It was only when I crossed the line to admit my feelings toward him, did I believe it was an EA. All of it was wrong, however, from beginning to end.

Stanley,
if I may ask ....
What is your handle over on TOW??

Is there a particular board you go to,
or All of them?

I myself still read over there,
but don't recall anything from a stanley. (but will admit I wasn't looking for You either) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

2BNormal:


From day one I told my Internet friend that I WOULD NEVER CONSIDER ANY KIND OF SENTIMENTAL RELATIONSHIP. Luckily she felt the same way. She was in withdrawal from an EA and had no clue about what to do.

There was daily communication and I took interest in helping her. I preached and I preached MB principles to her and she read all the published manuals in the site and started to feel better. She got a good handle on ENs and everything else. At this point I shared her history with my wife Myrta and even encouraged Myrta to email her to give her additional support.


2B, I am probably shallow because I cannot develop the same love feelings you had over the Internet. IN summary, without a visual or the physical presence of a person there is virtually no chance I could fall in love. That is me----- and I do not believe everyone else is like that. However, I had some personal satisfaction in trying to help and she also helped me.

I am the type of person that needs to talk and talk and then talk some more. Conversation is a big EN for me. OTOH, conversation is not a key EN for Myrta. So there was a ton of conversation about everything including physics and music. She is music major (also performs in a major orchestra) and I love to talk about music all day long. Despite everything I never had romance in my mind. In fact many of my conversations were centered on how much I love my wife Myrta.


I fully understand how you fell in love with OM. However, there is a difference. My conversations were developing in a background of hysterical bonding with my wife. My only sexual thoughts are for my wife. I am not sure how to explain this------I guess you have to experience this sperm competition syndrome to see how powerful that is.

In summary, I have never loved any other woman other than my wife. To this day I am convinced that I am one of those people that can only love once in a lifetime. When I say I am not prone to have affairs I mean to say that I do not fall in love easily. I think falling in love easily is a requisite to have an EA/PA. By the same token---those that can easily fall in love are able to rekindle with the betrayed spouse.

OM met my wife’s need for admiration and she fell for him. The clincher was meeting the EN of admiration. In my case--------- I can never fall in love because of ENs. I need some physical connection.

Stanley,

My H could never fall in love with someone over the internet either. I do believe him because I know how he is wired. My H has never loved anyone besides me....just like you have never loved another besides Myrta.

That said, I still would not be comfortable with my H privately emailing with a woman no matter what type of conversation they enjoyed together. I believe you know that Myrta is not comfortable with this, and I believe you know what you need to do and that is to end it.

Making one spouse pay is revenge...not recovery.

AHuman:

I almost never talk about the affair or bring up issues about the affair. The only times I talk about the affair is when my wife's OM stalks my wife's mom and pumps her for information. Or when OM talks to my brother in law trying to figure out when my wife is flying home to visit her elderly mother. Other than that I never talk about it.

The problem is that if I am unhappy about something or God forbid I appear depressed she feels guilty. I have no interest in punishment-----that is quite clear. However, I cannot be elated 24/7.

Stanley,
I will say upfront that I think you used very poor judgement in what you did... and I believe that you put yourself on a slippery slope to what could have become an EA.
That being said.. I have gotten some feedback that your W likes to come here to beat you up on occasion.... and has been doing so for quite some time. She has been doing just that and has touched on the obvious sensitivity of this board to EA's. It makes her feel better that you two (in her mind) on a a more even playing field. She will play up this EA angle every chance she gets now because it suits her needs. There may be some that feel your actions constituted an EA... I can see their point, I just am giving you the benefit of the doubt right now. If you know in your heart that your actions rose above the level to which you are admitting... please come clean and let the healing begin. If they have not... put your W in touch with this woman to put this matter to rest. Otherwise, prepare yourself to have her throw this up in your face... with the support of those like Suzet (who continues to harm another person because she won't do the right thing).
I don't know you and never dealt with you before... but you came here and answered peoples questions without avoiding anything. Your past behavior has not shown that you will commit an A... so until there is more information... or your W confirms her suspicions.. you have the benefit of the doubt from me.
I just hope that you get over this mis placed embarassment thing so that not only can your W check on this situation... but so that you can put an end to her continued contact with her FOM.

Stanley,

How about looking at the Internet relationship in another way? I completely believe you when you say that you are wired "visually" and that you don't see an Internet relationship as capable of creating "in love" feelings. But fidelity is more than just sex or love....it's also an agreement to save the emotional energy you have for your spouse and to protect your spouse from feelings of harm. There are more levels of threat than just sex and romance....this other relationship requires time and energy and fills some of your needs for admiration. When another woman has that power....it feels like a threat to your spouse. Myrta should be the one who fills your needs.

Also....have you looked at the possibility that being a "rescuer" to this woman help fulfill your own desire to feel good about yourself?

Be really careful chere.....because investing energy outside of the marriage....even on things as innocuous as say...video games....can create great distance between partners. If you're going to use some of your available time, or recreational energy to play games online or help someone else....are you neglecting to give time to family and are they losing their safety or their opportunity to fill your needs and strengthen the marriage?

Myrta wasn't entitled to have an affair....but you aren't entitled to invest energy outside of the marriage either. Even if the recreation is completely innocent (like golf with buddies for instance), you still have to evaluate whether it creates conflict, harm, or lack of intimacy. KWIM?

In this instance....I'd have to say yes even if I see alot more RISK in what you're doing than you do.

Stanley,
you said


"I almost never talk about the affair or bring up issues about the affair. The only times I talk about the affair is when my wife's OM stalks my wife's mom and pumps her for information. Or when OM talks to my brother in law trying to figure out when my wife is flying home to visit her elderly mother. Other than that I never talk about it."

If him talking to your MIL and BIL bothers you why in the world don't you tell them about the affair?

You are embarrassed?

So, you would rather live thru the agony of him staying in contact with your wife's family instead of a a little perceived embarrassment??

That makes no sense.

What do YOU have to be embarrasssed about?

Did you force her to have an affair?

Did you encourage her to have an affair?

Do you not think that if you told them they would have enough respect for your marriage to not stay in contact with him?

I suppose this is like beating a dead horse, as so many people have tried to persuade you. Just read what you wrote- you only bring it up when there is contact with the family. . . seems like the best soultion is to get her family in your corner where no contact is concerned.

Otherwise, you'll be living tormented by his contact and unable to fully move on.

Stanley,

How about reading what Myrta said to me in her two previous posts. Then consider what I have said to her. What is your take on this? It is after all your marriage we are talking about. So what do you feel Myrta is really saying to us here? Do you agree with her?

I am NOT trying to start an arguement. You two know better what goes on between you two. So it would help me respond better if I understood the dynamic better.

Stanley, if you are going to help some woman, have Myrta join you in helping them, otherwise it is not a good thing.

You must also factor in that Myrta understands somethings about A's much better than you. There may be things about being a BS that she does not understand, but I think you would be foolish not to trust the fact that she understands the dynamics of an A better, she understands the "slipper slope" better than you, AND she understands the cost of an A better than you. Her concerns are valid. You need to really consider that aspect of things.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Mkeverydaycnt, Starfish, Moveforward:

My wife is mostly upset at something else other than my Internet friendship. In fact she knew about this since the very onset.

When Myrta entered my email account she read an email where I told my Internet friend that I had flirted with a woman that used to be a coworker. I proudly stated that I hugged her and then we flirted back and forth. She was quite hurt to learn I was doing the above. One would think that this is nothing compared to a full-fledged PA, however, it hurts!

I think the important thing is that I am not emotionally invested in any of these things.

However, Starfish makes a great point:

The time I spend on the Internet may be detrimental to the relationship and this is something my Internet friend told me over and over again. In addition, all the rehashing of the affair probably made me resentful again and this was manifested on the d-day two-year anniversary.

I don’t think Myrta wants to play with me the EA card. I think she is genuinely concerned I could have an affair.

JL:

I believe Myrta has concerns because she knows most BH can be susceptible to an affair even if they were not prone pre-affair.

She also believes that one should be happy 24/7 in this stage of recovery.

She is also having feelings of guilt or perhaps the sensation that she is judged. This is a problem, no doubt.

The only solution I see is a greater level of emotional connection.

The other day I heard Dr. Harley say that the husband or wife that believes that they couldn't or wouldn't have an affair are the most likely or in danger to have one. We are all wired to have affairs.

We need to maintain strong boundaries to prevent affairs. Dr. Harley regularly says that we should not have friends of the opposite sex. We should not discuss our marriages with people of the opposite sex. You know this stuff.

Both the flirting and the email friendship have been disrespectful towards Myrta. You shouldn't have started an email friendship with that OW in the first place. She should have gotten counsel from another woman, therapist, or spiritual advisor.

Hanging out at TOW isn't healthy for you...it is as if you are embracing your corrupter. In a sick way you are attracted by all these sicko OW over at TOW...it is a perversion...focusing on what you hated in Myrta under the guise of wanting to understand or help them. You can't save them. That OW didn't need you to instruct her. Focus your attention on your marriage and spending your time with Myrta. I am glad you know you were wrong.

I would have been appalled if my H wrote emails to an OW...and doing it while on vacation! I don't care if it was only a 'friendship'. I don't want my H communicating with any OW in email..by phone or by flirting etc. He used to flirt and he had affairs. He absolutely has to maintain a boundary of no flirting. The boundaries are not just for FWS's but for all married couples.

You would not be happy if Myrta had such a 'friendship' with an OM. Nor would you appreciate her flirting. I have to think that a part of you wanted to get back at her out because of your deep pain from her betrayal/A. Cruel and heartless...do unto others.......

Stan-ley,
you didn't answer my question even if you did include my name in the post.

We'll try again:

Stanley,
you said


"I almost never talk about the affair or bring up issues about the affair. The only times I talk about the affair is when my wife's OM stalks my wife's mom and pumps her for information. Or when OM talks to my brother in law trying to figure out when my wife is flying home to visit her elderly mother. Other than that I never talk about it."

If him talking to your MIL and BIL bothers you why in the world don't you tell them about the affair?

You are embarrassed?

So, you would rather live thru the agony of him staying in contact with your wife's family instead of a a little perceived embarrassment??

That makes no sense.

What do YOU have to be embarrasssed about?

Did you force her to have an affair?

Did you encourage her to have an affair?

Do you not think that if you told them they would have enough respect for your marriage to not stay in contact with him?

I suppose this is like beating a dead horse, as so many people have tried to persuade you. Just read what you wrote- you only bring it up when there is contact with the family. . . seems like the best soultion is to get her family in your corner where no contact is concerned.

Otherwise, you'll be living tormented by his contact and unable to fully move on.

The shame would be unbearable. NOt only for me, but also for Myrta.

OM could also out Myrta. This would also be shameful. I guess I am a private person and do not air my issues with my family and friends. Maybe that is why I use the MB board.

I don't think this contact will entice my wife back.

Any man that refuses to stop his ws's contact with the op because he is embarrassed is not really much of a man.