AD - I get your point, I do, but there was a time when I felt having the child around would be embarassing. Am I proud about that, no...but, I'm trying to make this real. Having a H who has an affair with a woman and then having a child by that woman is embarassing...and I really believe that you all can understand that concept. I appreciate everyone's input here on these boards. When I was at my lowest, Lynn G was there, and I'll always be greatful for that...and I'm not going to try to explain what she was trying to say or not trying to say. One thing for sure, if she wants too, she'll tell us her intentions.

I was just trying to point out that this stitch can be embarassing...it doesn't mean that you can't love the child or care for them...it simply means that this is not an ideal situation and others looking in will not look highly on it...its embarassing, and honestly I wouldn't want anyone to know...that's just me.

I'm sorry that feelings were hurt...but there has to be a place where Lynn and Mom can say whats exactly on their minds. Lynn gave her opinion, and Mom gave hers....I can understand both points of view.

Lynn has her feelings on the OC stitch but I don't think that calling her LyinG is a good way to bring about closure and solidarity. Lynn didn't lie, she told us her perspective. Mom told us hers...we all are basically in the same boat..

MT3 - Why do you even come to MB then? If it gets you so upset, don't come here. I know for a fact you rag on this site elsewhere.

Many BS's here are hurting and raw, and rightfully so. I don't care if you think the blame is 100% on their H. They blame their H, but they blame OW too. She wasn't born yesterday, she isn't a "victim" in all of this (unless MM outright lies about being M'd). She too knows what BC is and knows how to keep her legs shut. It's their own fault they were too needy and desperate to have a man in their life to wait for one that is single. The OW in your sitch stalked your H, wouldn't let up. She played a major part in destroying your family. Now you play the single parent role for the most part. Good for you that you hold NO ill will towards her. You are a bigger person than most.

Like LynnG says, everybody gets a piece of the hurt pie. The OW is just as much to blame for bringing a child into this sitch.

ch~

I may be wrong, but I don't think Mom or anyone else's feelings were hurt. I think Mom was appalled or shocked or something, but not personally hurt. I think by what she's said, she was simply being an advocate for all children... doesn't like to hear any child being referred to in such a light.

Secondly, I never said Lynn or anyone else shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinion. That wasn't what my post was about at all. I was only pointing out that it's pretty clear by Lynn's statement, that the OC himself is an embarrassment, and not just the situation.

Ftr... being a wife of nearly 23 yrs, I can totally relate to what it must feel like as a BW w/ an OC. Obviously I don't know first hand. And I hope and pray I never will. I can get on board with the fact the situation would be a horrible embarrassment. I understand that, I do.

I'm a very private person, as in I don't like anyone... not my folks, sibs, IL's, best friend, and even my own children at times to know anything about my M. To me it's between my H & I. I hardly ever reveal any kind of details, whether good or bad. I'm not the kind that goes around saying "oh we're trying to get P", or "my H just got a vasectomy", or "we had this huge fight last night". AND the only people,(to my knowledge), that know about my A are my H, xom, and one of my com, (but doesn't know any dates, just kinda knew). Further... only my H and xom, (kinda sorta), know about my OC, (if the one com figured it out, she doesn't say, and she treats lil' one like he's her own child, lol). So you can only imagine how mortified I'd be for people to know if my H had an A, because suddenly there would be the presence of an OC. That would be one time in our M life we wouldn't be able to keep our private life, OUR private life, and what a biggie that would be!! So yes, I totally understand the concept of it being an embarrassing *situation*.

BUT...

I hope, (and I admit it would probably be easier for me, given my situation and what my H's done for me and lil' one), that I'd be able to separate the OC from the OW. Be able to separate the OC from the horror and ugliness of the betrayal. Be able to see that the only embarrassment would be what my H did to me. Be able to see that the *situation* is embarrassing, but NEVER the OC himself.


And even still... when all is said and done. I hope I'd be able to hold my head high, and say stick it to anyone who looked down on my H, me, and H's OC. Who needs friends like that anyway?

~ad

ps. Never said Lynn is a liar. Was just having a little fun, but I need to remember to keep that type of humor where it's more fitting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I'll edit now.

Why do you think my feelings are hurt?

I never indicated in any way shape or form that my feelings were hurt...I am not hurt by any means....I guess because I am divorced and not harboring all these bitter angry feelings towards my XH, I should rather be hurt...

no sweetie I am not hurt, I am not bitter, I am not angry...no matter how hard ya'll try to covince yourselves I am, I am not...I am angry at the way my XH ACTS at times and how he uses my COM to get to me, but not for what he did...there is a difference. I am way beyond that...

I'm not sure where you guys find it necessary to twist the original point I made..which was calling a CHILD an embarrassment...I found that disprespectful and unnecessary...

I rarely rag on MB unless it has something to do with ME...I dont ever recall ragging on this site otherwise...If I am mad about something that was said in regards about ME, then yes, I have every right to rag about it...but dont sit there and say that I rag on this site...

I'm sorry why are you bringing up MY OW in this? have I mentioned MY OW here? I will have to go back and refresh, but I dont recall I did...

I have never said anything negative about any BS here hurting...I understnd their pain...I was there, so I dont know why you find it necesary to accuse me for ridiculing any other BS here...

Again, please refer back to my original post that started all of this...I was simply pointing out that I found it disprespectful that someone said such horrble things about a child...

now if you all want to continue bringing my divorce, my OW, my OC into this, so be it...you all are free to converse amongst yourselves....

have a great day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mom I started this thread not to lash out you for your opionion on what is going on your life. It wasnt started to lash at me for where I am in my recovery, btw, since you dont know me, is going great, we are happy and better then ever. Why that was brought up still dont know.

You said that is why you dont ever come to this board, I just wanted to know why come? Every one has their board, some they feel more comfortable to really open and talk, some you agree with but some you dont, but putting the quality time into the board you learn who is who and their opionions. I dont have alot of time, shouldnt be sitting here as it is, but hope you kind of get what i am saying,

Anyways why I started this thread was not to say your opionions in it didnt count, you have the right to yours, I respect that, I have the right to mine, which I wished for respect to that.

I started it to try and stop this exact thing from going on in guiltyhusband thread. One comment was said, then another and then another and soon all heck breaks out in it. If it was my thread and it started it wouldnt of bothered me, I have been around here awhile, or even another established member, because me (they) kind of know what makes everyone tick around here. But a newbie dont.

Looking at my post I guess I didnt word it just write, what I should of said because like you said I dont know you I dont your feelings about Lynn or things (kind of got the idea by your comments tho)
Should of said "TH we all know your feelings about Lynn but if you two have a prob with something another poster said take it to another thread."

Yes you have your right to say what you want, all I was trying to do was to get you guys to take it to another thread and out of the newbie, give him the choice if he wanted to read it by clicking on the thread..... KWM???

When I saw the oh my gosh,,,,, I just knew there would be another comment, so I tried to say everyone got their opionion lets remember that, hoping that their wasnt going to be on that thread, but as i knew another was made and another, and I knew that more comeback would make it to that thread and the thread would be sidetracked KWIM???? So I tried to fast track it to another thread that if you want to dispute what another poster said bring it to another thread.

I wasnt trying to start a war, I was TRYING TO KEEP PEACE on a newbie thread. Put them on a established who knows or start a new thread saying hey I dont agree with that.

Hope I made sense. I know sometimes when I am hurry I babble.

but I really got to get to packing.

I know who you are Family Comes First <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thunder, you should know that starting a thread with the my name in the title is going to create a war...you see before I even posted in this thread it got out of hand...

some ppl love me here on MB but most ppl hate me and it is not because I am opinionated or I argue or whatever...they just dont like me...so be forewarned next time you start a thread with MT3B or Mom in it...it will create DRAMA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

its what Others have said that has gotten so out of hand....as usual! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

have a great day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

no prob, cause as much drama as you would like :-) just in the approatiate thread :-) KWIM???


I make my own opionion on who i like and dont like

"I know who you are Family Comes First"

And that's supposed to mean something to me? Should I be shakin' in my boots?? LMAO!

I'm sorry I said hurt...I got that impression. I support every woman's right to express themselves. I never hold myself back.

I'm sorry if I made it out to be more than it was. I was just trying to explain what the "embarassment" could be for some...that's all. I apologize if I misinterpreted.

And yet, I ask again, why is it so terribly wrong to protect the children of the marriage from all of this?

My children and even me are human too. I chose,early on that I was not going to live my life with the oc as part of it. That decision was made, early, after speaking to many people, who had lived it. Those who had contact said it was the biggest mistake of their lives. I agreed with them.

If a wife wants contact with the oc, she can do so. If not, that is ok too. I feel strongly that the wife and her children not be forced to accomodate others to fix the mistake. They are just as innocent as the oc. I try to scream from the hilltops that it is vital that people realize that everyone gets hurt here, cause of two people. Not just the oc.

Yes we are all well aware that the oc is innocent, blah blah blah... But so are the children of the marriage. Since I chose to fight for my childrens well being that makes we wrong?

Yes, I protected my children from the embarrassment of having the oc in our lives. Yes I saw the oc as a humiliation. What is he otherwise? Just cause a healthy baby was born does not erase the affair and the end result. It does not tie up the mess and the hurt created by two in a nice neat box.

Also, TH, when have I ever blasted a wife for having contact? I have stood firm on doing what the BW feels is best for her and her marriage. I have supported those with contact many times....as long as that is what THEY wanted and didn't feel pushed into doing so. I support BW's cause I was one. I don't want to see them get run over again. They are hurt, and confused. Their friends can hug them and hold them while they cry. I will kick them in but and tell them to get moving and be proactive so they don't get swindled by those who would do them harm......meaning those who had the affair. And YES that includes her husband. She has to stand up and voice her feelings and concerns, or why stay marrired? And it is quite obvious that the wishes/needs of the ow do not matter or count. The oc is whatever she chooses it to be. If she wants oc in her life, then the couple, can do so. They can make any and all decisions regarding their lives and thier marraige without once having to consider what the ow may or may not like. That is reality.

This is not a Norman Rockwell painting. It does not get all cleaned up nice and neat. So many are hurt, and not just the oc, but the spouse, inlaws, etc, and of course the children of the marraige. The oc is just one of many.

OK Lynn, what is your definition of "forced"?


Lynn, I know I have bashed you, but I don't recall doing it for that. You have blasted me for wanting contact. That is where my response was comming from.


My big issue with you is not so much as to weather or not you would allow contact with the OC, but more about how you talk about them that I found offensive. It often came across as if they are "sub human". That somehow they were to blame for the adulterus acts H's like me and the OW's involed.

TH

Lynn,

The boss has other plans for me at the moment. I will respond to what you wrote on the GH thread, it just won't be right now.

TH

TH--I gently point out you are always very defensive on this point... you LOOK for ways to be upset about OC.

I suspect you are reacting to movie-versions of Betrayed Wives ("Evita" scenes leap to mind--disgusting behavior that 95% of BW would never do), and acting out your own guilt.

Yes, YOUR BEHAVIOR is what screwed your OC out of a normal life and you feel guilty. Face it. Mourn it. Lynn is advocating something you terribly don't want--to leave OC behind. So you're projecting your guilt as anger at Lynn.

Don't waste your time trying to change people who aren't going to change, have little to do with your situation, and who aren't hateful toward OC anyway.

Thoughful human beings love children regardless of their origins. (It's said we can judge a culture by how it treats children, elderly, and handicapped.)

That doesn't mean all Betrayed Spouses have to or can embrace their spouse's lover's child into their life--esp. when that means lifelong contact with the former Affairee----eeeewwww!

If your wife can (accept OC), I hope you fall on your knees in gratitude. Sorry, but you and LynnG can both come off as arrogant, so in this sense you have something in common.

Spoken as someone who has come to love my H's OC much.
'Jenny'

Lynn,

There are "other" places where your courage to take a strong stand for the rights of BW are lauded and applauded. Many of them have expressed gratitude for your help in seeing another point of view in the devastation following an A with/OC.

Everything seems uncertain and I don't think anyone is thinking straight after D-day with this situation. There is NO roadmap that tells you the right way. You are telling BW's that it is okay to not want OC in their lives and they do NOT have to just accept, accept, accept anything that H/OW say to protect their children and attempt to save their marriage.

I wish that I had found MB earlier in our drama and the strength you offer. I came to the decision that I could NOT have OW in our life and I did not want OC in our lives. But I was worried I was out of line.........I had so much distorted thinking, and I didn't know what to do. I called my therapist to ask HIM if I was unreasonable to not want OC/OW before I stated my position to H. He told me that "NO woman in her RIGHT MIND would want that in her life"! That helped tremendously with the road map!!

Even if a BW decides that she does want C, it is a valuable service to BW to show them another way that is okay, too.

Thank you! Don't ever change!

Lynn has NEVER railed on the betrayed spouse for wanting contact. You got railed on because you - the wayward spouse, who posted many critical things about your wife, while you went on and on about the admirable traits of the woman who helped you destroy your family's hopes for stability - you were basically railroading your wife and threatening to abandon COM for OC in order to FORCE contact. That defies the probability of a healthy marriage, and deprives both the COM and OC of a stable family situation.

Do not use Mom's passion over the feelings shared about what OC represents to a betrayed wife as license - because if she had read what you had done to your poor wife to force contact at this early age... well, let's just say I don't think you'd be getting ANY kudos from a woman as fiery about wayward spouse behavior as Mom is!

Amen KaylaAndy!!!

I have never picked on a BW for chosing contact. I have and will always tell them that while it is hard to even function in the early days, months of learing this devastating news, now is not the time to fall apart. They need to be honest about how they really feel. And they need to make life choices based on what they really want.

I believe that Kayla did a great job explaing what forced means.


I advcate for BW's to pull up the bootstraps and get what they want out of their lives. And to not listen or be manipulated by those who do not have their best interests at heart.

It's not that I see the oc as subhuman, but I do not see oc as more important then my children. I look out for my children and their best interests.

I certainly did see the oc as an embarrassment. What would be expected? Happy giddy feelings of joy? That suddenly the betrayal and hurt and angst fades away cause a baby is born? Nope.

I saw the oc as a finanical obligation and living proof of my husbands betrayal. Do I wish him ill will? Nope. He was just as innocent as my children. The problem is that many see the oc as the ONLY innocent one. I don't. I see the this spread out over entire families.

>I advcate for BW's to pull up the bootstraps and get what they want out of their lives

BRAVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How are things on your home front, TH? I know that you deleted all the pertinent information on your original thread, but you haven't offered where your M stands right now and how your W is doing dealing with the OC situation.

Oh, and I may not be Lynn, but IMHO, forced is pretty much what you did you to your W upon the A and OC being exposed. You basically gave her an ultimatum of "You either accept this child in our lives or I'm gone." All this right after she JUST finds out of the OC. You didn't even give her the chance to let it all sink in before you started throwing your weight around. Then, you get upset when she changes her mind to NOT have her boys visit with the OC.

So, how about giving us an update on where your M stands right now? What steps are you taking to repair the damage you caused?