I am very happy to read the above TH. I think you are taking our posts in a way not intended. Everyone is simply advocating that you hear your W's pain and put her first. That truly is it. You know that we ALL here are rooting for your M, don't you? So many people have taken time to post to you and the Mrs. because we care. One marriage at a time is how I see it. It will take your DW at least a year or two to get through the emotional trauma, please keep that in mind as you go through visitation etc. I am very, very happy to hear that you have NC with the XOW.

To be honest, with some of the posts, I do wonder what the ageanda is.

TH,
Faithful follower has taken the words from my mouth. I wasn't shouting 'fool' from the rooftops. I apologize for rudeness. I just thought your wifes voice wasn't being heard and I still feel she'd like to give up oc visits until she has a chance to regroup without having oc in her face.

I may be wrong, have been many times before.

Also she worrys about your Mom being a go between. Perhaps she feels double betrayal. I can't imagine how I would have felt in my MIL involved herself. Our son would have been terribly hurt too. He was much older than your boys.

The only agenda here is to help out your wife. Feel her pain. Do what makes her feel most comfortable for now. That's it.

I do think you want your w and family. I really do. Sometimes it's how you come across as the only one who can decide how things should be done and I fear Mrs.TH will have an eruption of anger sometime in the future over everything.
You keep her hands tied allowing her no voice and she needs to be heard right now.

I know you love all of your kids, but one is causing your wife incredible pain and guilt.

If you can take a vacation from that 'one' for maybe 6-8 mos. and give your wife all of your attention, she may begin to feel differently.

I HAVE been in her shoes you know?

Maybe I'll just keep out of it from now on. Perhaps I'm seeing it all wrong.

Anyway, sorry for being rude, at time you evoke the worst of me and I put it in print too quick~

I think I told you, TH, that I experienced this very double betrayal due to my MIL becoming "best friends" with the OW and having the OC to her home and introducing the OW/OC to my innocent neice and nephews all behind my back. My MIL gave up two lovely grandchildren for one and she gave up a loving DIL for a skanky untrustworthy "friend" who was only using her (I have it in her own words) to further her own agenda. So please understand we here have been in your W's shoes, we understand her pain. We ARE rooting for your marriage.

You feel that way because you are still reading defensively. Maybe you and your W need more time talking, openely, w/o threats of you leaving if she doesn't do what you want. If you are half as defensive with her as you are here, she must be scared to be honest with you about her feelings. You keep demonstrating a my way or the highway attitude that is not condusive to a good recovery.

I'm not trying to beat you up, just stating my observations.

Tisk, Tisk, I don't think you have been reading all the posts before posting yourself.

I have been guilty at times too, but I will ask that you "re-read" before I consider your statements.

TH

Whatever TH... good luck to you and your wife. Cause you definitely need it.

You've conviently deleted the posts where you are threatening your wife with a D if she doesn't agree to visitation. And the ones where you go on and on about being concerned about YOUR needs being met.

So, if others want to continue to bang their head against the wall with you, they can have at it. You aren't worth the time anymore. Your BETRAYED W is, but you sure aren't.

Well, I can speak for myself...I am pulling for your marriage to work. I give my opinion from being in your wife's shoes. However, I will not assume to know what you both discuss during your private time. I know what it would take for me to trust my H again...and its alot, and to add a child in the mix is an incredible thing. I wish you the best.

No one needs to bang thier head, I have been willing to listen the whole time. I just may not agree with your positions.

If you are going make accusations about what I am thinking or doing, then I would ask that you at least have the courtesy to read the thread and get up to date before you try and take me to task.

I did not mean to be condesending, it was meant with some humor. Sorry if it came off wrong.

I have apperciated the time people have taken to post to me.

BTW, if I really wanted to hide everything, I would have never setup a computer for my W to use with a SHORTCUT to this forum. I could have also denied being TH.

TH

TH. I wish to thank you. You have totally highlighed virtully every reason I have ever given for why it is so important for BW to stand up and fight for what she wants in her own life. I have told them to get to a laywer and protect their family finances for the COM. I have told them to be totally honest and upfront with what it is they want to do/accept into their own lives. I have warned them of allowing the tail to wag the dog, and to fight back. Your story is a classic example of the that. Manipulation and cruelty at its harshest.

Virtually everything that has happened on this thread is proof of how vital it is they stand up and fight for themselves FIRST. Your wife has been manipulated and forced into having contact...with out care or concern of how she feels about it. Your children have been run over by you/ow/oc and you put them secondary to the "innocent oc". Never even bothering to wonder how this will hurt them. Just taking them for granted that they will accept this....cause it is "bests for the oc". When did you ever stop and think if this was best for them????? Why did your wife and children have to sacrifice for your sin? Shouldn't you have been the one to sacrfice?

I am so glad you posted here, cause it is proof positive of how it is up to the BW to look out for herself and her children, cause her husband has proven to not be reliable at doing so.

So, while I wish you the best and hope that you can recover, the way it is set up right now, and the way you controlled your wife, and manipulated and forced her, I worry about her and her children. You run off and sign visitation agreements without care or concern for what your family is feeling, just the oc. You don't even have the intelligience to get a DNA test?????? There are so many things done 1/2 assed and wrong here it boggles the mind. It is simply astounding that you take this all with such a cavalier attitude. Simply amazing.

Your wife and children deserve better. They deserve a husband/father who will actually put their needs first. One who realizes how much harm he has done to that family, and feels it to the depths of his sole. Not some simple minded deluded idiot who stabs his family in the back and then complains if they dare bleed.

Mrs. TH. I think you should call the Harleys yourself, and then call a good laywer....just in case.

Thank you Lynn

[color:"red"] ditto [/color]

Pep

Hi Lynn,

You keep sending love notes like this and people are going to start to think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I also see you have resorted to name calling again. I can't begin to tell you how impressed I am with that.

You can banter on about what you think I did right, wrong or whatever. Honestly, it doesn't matter.

Like I have posted before, it is only important what my W thinks. My W and I have had several discussion about all kinds of issues that had plauged our M. We are both agreed that we want to move on together.

As far as the "Harleys and Lawyer" bit. My W is a fully capable woman, if she thinks that is what is in her best interest, I would not stop her, I couldn't even if I wanted too. She is free to do as she wishes and has done exactly that. You may never want to be married to me, but so far my W wants to stick with me, and I want to stick with her.


This is probley the most insulting thing you have said to me. I mean just the part I quoted. It's insulting because I know it to be a lie. Just be blunt like you are the rest of the time and we will be just fine.


OK Lynn, tell me which part of the agreement do you object to? That's right, niether W or I has given much detail. That means you are talking "out of you butt" about the agreements. So how would you know if they were harmfull or not? How would you have known if a lawyer could have gotten a "better deal"? YOU DON"T!

I on the other hand did do my homework and DO HAVE THE FACTS. I can admit that I should have got a lawyer to keep ethical distance between me and the OW, but don't try to tell me that I or my family got finacialy "ran over". You don't have the facts to make that kind of judgement.

The rest of your argument to me is a bunch of "hot air". I think you got some anger issues to deal with Lynn.
Again, you simply do not have enough updated information to make those kinds of accusations, and I nor my W don't have enough time or desire to spoon feed facts to you.

TH

Hi TH! We miss you and your lovely DW. Hope the recovery process is going well.

Hi Faith,

Good to see you too. I had to go to San Jose again. I got to fly this time! I saw Lynn's "love note" about three days ago but was just to busy to responed to anything. They tend to work my butt off when I go there. Glad to be back home in the Seattle area with MrsTH and the kids.

I see the "fight club" is back in buisness.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hope all is going well in your part of the world.

TH

TH, are you for real? You come here a mere 2 months ago dissing your wife, how you will leave if she doesn't give in to your demands, etc. You put your oc above all, and then as Familycomesfirst says, you delete it all, to hide your verbal assaults.

You misquote me on my "dirt on the bottom of the shoe" remark, trying to horrify people that I said that about a child....when in fact I wrote it in 2004 about the OW not mattering to the decisions made in a marriage. But, what is most interesting is you reading that far back..how bizzare. How strange.

Either way, I see you making these passive aggressive comments on here, nothing makes any sense. I have read plenty what you have written....in mere weeks...to make an opinion. Your wife would be wise to call the Harleys and get a laywer.

That is a fair question. The short answer is yes.

Here is the longer answer:

As I keep saying here, I did read the books. I gave my W and I an fair chance to try and fill each others needs. It has proven successfull. I see how our M can work.

Ask me a few months ago and I would have said 'NO WAY", "Cant't Happen". Once I knew what my W REALLY wanted from me, I started to focus energy in those areas. Am I perfect, No, but I can tell just from the way she acts at me that I must be doing something right.

If she decides to post again, perhaps she would tell you if my efforts have been suscessfull. Lately, she seems more interested in Full Tilt Poker. She is really good at it.


It was "GUM stuck on the bottom of your shoe that needs to be scraped off" and I read it three times just to make sure. Perhaps you know how to use the Edit/Delete button too?

In any case, I was going to drop this, but you keep bringing it up. Sucks to feel like you are mis quoted (tared and feathered) doesn't it? I know exactly how you feel!

Here is a case in point:


You see it as "dissing", I saw it as asking blunt questions.
Yes I was still wraped up thinking about if I had made a mistake by staying with my W, Yada yada yada....

I was really questioning if we could make it. It's a question I no longer have to ask. I know we will.

If you go back and look at some of the statement you made to me, can you honestly say you were tring to help?

If you were, who were you trying to help? How did you possably think that by being that insultive, that somehow I would come around to your way of thinking? What was your goal?

TH

You came here, with flippant remarks about demanding this or that from your wife, veiled threats if she doesn't accept. That was not blunt questions, but dissing of her, the victim here, along with her children. Knowing your wife was hurting, shocked, and upset, you STILL were all excited about the oc visiting your family. As if getting that done was all that mattered.

You were told by many others, and not just me to slow down, and asked what was the hurry. Of course by then you had deleted all your posts, and tried to make it look that others were being harsh and mean to you, that somehow you were being picked on by the mean nasty BW's.....I've seen that before on here....

Gum or Dirt, it doesn't matter. The oc is not part of the decision making process. Go and read ALL my posts and you will see I am not anti oc. I am just anti "what is best for oc" CAUSE WHAT IS BEST FOR OC MAY NOT BE WHAT IS BEST FOR OTHERS.

I was trying to wake you up to the harm you had done to your wife and family. How your thinking only of oc was wrong, that there were many victims here. But all you and ow supporters ever see or think is 'what about the oc" And if/when anyone talks of protecting their own family from this, they are told to be adult, and how cruel it is. As if somehow the BW's need to be a complete doormat now that the oc is here....sorry. They have a life to live and choices to make too. And they don't have to give one thought to ow/oc while they make that choice.

I don't care if you come around to MY way of thinking. However, it is vital to your marriage that you wake up and come around to face THE DAMAGE that you have done. I don't care if you like me or not. But you are so flippant and cavalier about your family. And by family, I mean your wife and the children of the marraige. You seem to have moved at warped speed here....two months ago all but ready to destroy them, now suddenly your life is a rose garden? All is happy. Yeah. Ok. Whatever.

"two months ago all but ready to destroy them, now suddenly your life is a rose garden? All is happy. Yeah. Ok. Whatever."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amen to that Lynn!!!! So true, it just plain doesn't happen that fast. Anyone who thinks so, is kidding themselves.

Now I do belive there is some truth to this. I would sugest you work on your presentation skills however. It would be MUCH better recieved.


There are many sides to the story of an A, I suggest you take all of them into account. Dr H writes a lot about this in the books I have read.


Then for who's benifit are you posting to me? What is your goal?


I didn't have to try, it was self evident. Is it any wonder why there is only me( a male WS with baby) here?


I was not as resitance to saving my M as you think I was.
It is I who reached for help, and I who came here looking for answers. I even did as requested and showed her this site. My W is free to do as she pleases, and has done just that. She has the resources to leave me or get a lawyer if that is what she wants. I can't FORCE her to do squat!

Things are not a "Rose Garden", but things are moving in the right direction. I do look forwared to comming home everynight now. Do you have a problem with that?

Would you ridicule MrsTH if she decided that C was OK, or just me because I dare say that I would like my daughter to be a part of our family?


I'm indiffernt to you at this point. I can see by some of the previous posters that my view of you is shared by many.
I meant it when I said I would be willing to stop kicking you around. It feels rather pointless now.

You keep posting at me, and I am silly enough to keep responding. If it makes you feel any better, when it comes to my detractors, I generally prefer to only post back to you. No need to deal with the minions when I can deal with the leader.

TH