MEDC, you posted the following to Loving_Learning on three separate posts:

AND

AND

MEDC, with your responses to Loving_Learning, I get the impression that you minimize this type of behavior. You do view secretive behavior with pornography and fantasizing about other women as inappropriate, but not as serious and not as betraying behavior/cheating towards the spouse as long as there is no A or one-on-one contact with any person going on. I feel disappointed about this especially since you always appear (through all your other posts) as a person who have strong religious and moral values and a very strong sense of right/wrong with no grey areas… I also feel disappointed with the fact that you don’t put such a high value on MB principles (specifically the Policy of Radical Honesty) in Loving_Learning's situation while in the past you’ve actively broadcasting your strong belief in all MB principles and the high value you put on it… I believe Loving/Learning should be radically honest with his W about his behavior of the past since his behavior was a serious betrayal towards his W and M (you will understand why I say this if you read further on).

MEDC, I agree that what Loving_Learning did was not an A, but it was betraying behavior and ‘mental’ adultery/cheating towards his spouse…even though there was no one-on-one contact/correspondence etc. going on. MEDC, since you are a religious person who believes in the Bible, you’re suppose to know that Scripture provides very clear answers and guidelines on the behavior Loving-Learning was practicing:

Matthew 5:27 – 30:

Quote

"You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 So if your eye-even if it is your good eye*-causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into h e l l. 30 And if your hand-even if it is your stronger hand*-causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into h e l l.

When Jesus said ”anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart”, he was referring to ANY woman (whether the woman is ‘alive’ and/or on the internet/magazine and whether the man have personal contact/interactions/correspondence with the woman or not). The fact is, porn women on the internet/TV/magazines are real people who exist – they are just reduced to ‘sex objects’, but the fact is, they ARE real people. So, whether a man commits adultery in the mind/heart with a ‘live’ or internet/TV/magazine woman, it is still the same and adultery in the eyes of Jesus… If a man looks at a porn woman lustfully and imagine/fantasize about sexual encounters with her in his mind, he IS “longing for what is forbidden” and is therefore committing adultery in the mind/heart and towards his spouse and therefore an adulterer in the eyes of Jesus. There are no justifications and rationalizations around this. Of course the same applies to women - women who are looking at other men lustfully and/or having fantasies of them and longing for what is forbidden is committing adultery in the mind/heart and towards their husbands too.

Suzet... when this person asks for a purely religious perspective, I will give it to him.

I did advocate that he tell his W that he has had a problem with pornography... and that he will cease this action. I am making a distinction between his behavior and an A since there would be different consequences based on the seriousness of the act. I in no way advocated that he be dishonest with his W.

If the poster has any questions about my responses, I will happily address them. But I have no gray areas when it comes to cheating on his W.... exposure, or anything else A related. It is not my place to tell another person that they can or cannot view pornography, only that they be honest with their spouse. And in this case, the SPOUSE, his W, said she wanted to limit the information given.



Why would this disappoint you? I see them both as wrong... but an A as a more serious assault to a M.

And Suzet, I would appreciate it if you do not lecture me on scripture. I have a Bible and a pastor for that. I do appreciate your views in many areas... we may agree on some things and not on others... and that is okay... but one area, for my own personal reasons that I will not get into with you is scripture. There are some on this site that I happily engage in those discussions, I will leave it at that.

But can’t you see that secretively looking at porn and fantasizing about sexual encounters with other woman was indeed cheating on his W and committing adultery in his mind/heart towards her? Why is this a gray area for you and why do you consider such actions only as wrong/inappropriate but not as cheating/betrayal/adultery towards his W while Scripture clearly states otherwise?

ForeverHers once posted the following words which are very true:

”Sex, through fantasy with someone else, through lust over pornographic images, through an emotional affair, or through a physical affair is Adultery (Marital Unfaithfulness). Upon marriage each spouse promises, among other things, to keep themselves exclusively to each other for all issues related to sex. "Forsaking ALL others" does not limit the exclusion to just physical sex with another live person.”

MEDC, I don’t want to argue with you... I’m just really interested in your answers...especially since you appear like a man with very strong and high spiritual and religious morals & values… But if you really don’t want to discuss this topic any further, I will respect it.

Hello LL...

I am the H of 090886. She asked me this morning to write to you to share my perspective on your issues. I'm no expert, but I do have the experience of having fallen into the whole internet porn thing. It can be VERY addictive. I'm also no psychologist, but as I understand it, viewing porn triggers endorphins and various other hormonal responses in men’s brains. It's a natural, biological response to audio/visual stimuli. Where women rely more on the emotional side of their feelings to progress either into or through a relationship, men, being wired COMPLETELY differently, rely more on physical, visual, and/or audio stimulus to get their “high”. It's the primary reason Hugh Heffner has been so successful, whereas periodicals such as “Play Girl” typically sell more to gay men than “normal women”.

Basically, what it boils down to is this: You fell into a trap; a well-constructed one to be sure. There’s a reason why prostitution is the world’s oldest profession. It’s because they know what they’re doing: they cater to the physical needs of men. We are these huge walking dumb-sticks that follow a pretty woman wherever she leads us. Thankfully though, every so often, our dumb-sticks lead us to a real gem. I have the great fortune of having married one. It sounds like you do, too. The real trick is to not let your dumb-stick rule your actions. I wish I could say I have been consistently successful in that, but I can’t. I lived with years of guilt and strayed from my W by visiting sites like the ones you describe. Not ones with IM capabilities or anything like that. I was never looking for a relationship – only a physical means of releasing tension and making withdrawals from my endorphin bank. It became a habit. I enjoyed it. That is until immediately after the self-gratification part. Then the guilt set in. However, my dumb-stick kept letting me forget what it was like each time. I think our brains are programmed to forget pain. This is one of the reasons women keep having babies. They forget how much pain is involved. It’s both a blessing and a curse. My curse was that I kept having these “affairs” with Internet pictures and videos instead of spending similar time with my W. As a result, our relationship has suffered tremendously. Thank God I have my real gem though, since she still lets me stick around while we work on growing our relationship. I have since managed my problem and look forward to many years of one-on-one time with my W. She truly is my fantasy goddess. I have learned more about her lately than I think I may ever have known. She is SO much stronger than I ever gave her credit for. I could kick myself for not letting her in on my little (okay, BIG) secrets all these years. She has handled them admirably. Granted, we are still working on our relationship and it will take time, but I get the sense that she trusts me now more than ever. Trust is something no one should take lightly. It’s something your W needs from you right now. She needs to know about your earlier transgressions. It’s truly the only way you can move forward and you can shed yourself of this guilt that is getting in the way of improving your relationship.

I was raised Catholic and I know all about guilt. I could write a book on it. Actually, I think I just did.

LL: I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you’re normal. You’re okay. And your relationship will be, too. But you need to tell your W everything. Not just the stuff you think she can handle. Something tells me she’ll end up surprising you in the end.