McB,

What did you learn from facing choices posts? What resonates with you in her story? It is time you stepped back now and really looked at things, but let's begin with FC's story and then we will get you to read Autumn Day's story.

History can teach a lot if we are willing to look at it, think about it, and learn from it. Are you ready for another history lesson? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My point? Perspective, perspective, perspective McB, this is all about perspective. I truely believe your perspective on your H is wrong, and hence you are committing some big time disrespectful judgemenst, DJ's. That will kill your marriage.

If you want help from him, you are going to need to ask for it. I will also tell you that in my reading here for over 7 years, the couples that recovered the best and fastest were those where the WS allowed the BS to help them, and the BS was strong enough to sit and listen to the WS talk about their feelings for the OP. Tough stuff, very tough for both, but somehow once people survive that, then the healing begins.

You have a long ways to go, but frankly you have the rest of your life to get there. You and your H share children and he is willing to raise the newest member of your family. You two are connected in ways you don't fully understand yet, but no matter what you do...you are connected. The only issue left is whether this connection will be allowed to bring happiness into your life and his life. You control your happiness, he can merely share it with you. Please think about this very carefully. YOU CONTROL YOUR HAPPINESS, so do you have a plan yet that will allow you to be happy, and let your H share in it??

Must go, I am glad you read FC's posts. Something about them were very powerful to me, and I hoped they might be to you.

God Bless,

JL

I should know better. Until MC gets started there is no point in talking to him. He actually initiated the conversation but it went south the minute I tried to explain to him how I feel. He thinks I am only thinkking about OM in this situation and feeling sorry for him instead of thinking about H and how he feels and what he is going through.

He made threats of what would happen if I try to leave him (he says he will use my A and OC to take all 3 kids from me etc). He tried to tell me I would be ruining everyone's life if I ever allow OM to have C with OC, that he will not be staying at that point and I will be responsible for what happens to our kids emotionally when they find out about their sister is a half sister etc.

In other words, I was left feeling worse than before. Once again I feel I have no choice but to stay M no matter how unahppy we both are because that protects our children.

I called for MC today and hopefully by early next week we will have an appointment.

He says I am being selfish by not being able to move on and forget about OM and OC and just let him raise her and go on about our lives.

We both cried, he was angry I was bringing up OM and I Was angry he wasn't even try to understand how I feel and my emotions. Nothing new :-(

So how do you let your H help you if he himself needs help?
B

McB,

Ok, let's go over a few things first. You don't understand the connections yet do you? You said:
And what have you done that would make him feel otherwise? Even in these posts you don't discuss what you have done to make amends to your H. You only discuss yourself and your feelings for OM. You may not understand this but it is high time you did. Your H has been betrayed in the most awful fashion...by you. You will notice if you read this site for awhile, that people who have been betrayed become HYPER sensitive to their partner. They can and do pick up things their WS partner never seem to realize they do. Women, especially fail to understand this, because the usual stereotypcial male is not supposed to be sensitive. Well, after being betraye they sure as heck are.

Your H is reading you like a book and frankly what he is saying is probably more true than you want to admit. So I repeat my question. What are you doing to show him his view of things is incorrect? I don't mean what are you telling him, what are you DOING? Have you ever sat down and written out what you think he must be feeling and thinking about all of this? Try it, and then read it to him. You both will be surprised.


EXCELLENT. You don't know this yet, but he isn't trying to hold you against your will, he is fight for you and this marriage, and in the anger and hurt, what you get is what you got. But, the man wants to be married to you, love you, be loved by you. You don't understand, if you having the OC had crushed him completely, he would be gone and perhaps your other children as well. Your marriage has a chance ONLY because he is hurt, angry, mad, and willing to fight.

This is/was a very good thing. You two have a chance as long as he is like this. If he starts to withdraw, and ceases to show emotion then YOU and your marriage have a huge problem. And yes the children will be hurt, if you don't understand anything else, it is that they will be harmed.

Sorry to say this but this is a self-serving, stupid comment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> You have a variety of options besides eating worms. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> You could use this opportunity, and it is an OPPORTUNITY to make the marriage much better than it ever has. You could use this opportunity to improve yourself. Your H could and seems willing to use this OPPORTUNITY to improve himself. The solution is not stay or go. It is far richer than that. You could rebuild, change, love deeply, enjoy your life, your children, and each other.

It will be up to the both of you.




Excellent. But, see if you can begin to see that there is a win-win if you stay in your marriage and with your children. Your life will not be easy, but it can become better than ever. You really need to talk to Autumn Day alot about this.


And this statement is wrong? How? You won't just move on and you will NEVER forget OM. But the feeling associated with the memories will fade and be replaced by feelings for your H. This is the way of things.


So are you trying to understand how your H feels? You can talk to your H about how you feel about OM, but you need to come at it the right way. I think your H understand how you feel about OM <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Much more than you understand how your H feels. You see he understands the bonds of fatherhood much better than you realize, and he probably understands that your feelings are very very deep for OM and it hurts him so because you don't understand how deep your H's feelings are for you.


Oh this one is simple, but it is not easy. You let your H help you by helping your H. As you talk to him about his feelings, his fears, his insecurities you will find that it will help you in ways you won't understand. When and if he opens up about these things and assuming you treat his feelings with care, he will become stronger and more able to handle YOUR feelings. You don't understand his anger is driven by pain and fear. Pain at what you have done, and fear you will leave. He fears that if you talk about OM, it will make OM more in your mind and you more willing to leave. As he starts to see you differently via your talking with him, he will understand things differently.

A really good place to start and practice this is with the MC present. IF the MC is pro-marriage and good, he will show you both how to do this, much better than someone like me can.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Dear H,

I am writting this to you today because I think it is finally time for me to own up to the huge mess I've created. For the last almost 2 years of our marriage I have done nothing but damage our already weak relationship by allowing another person in our lives. I have tried to find blame in you, in what you did or didn't do, in the times we didn't even fight because it was best to just ignore the issues, in the times it was best for me to talk to a stranger than to you. But as I sit here looking at my life with you during these 16 years, I realize the choices that I made were made by me and no one else but me.

I was desperate for the love I thought I no longer had from you, I was desperate to fill the void that so many times I felt in my heart. Yet I went looking for this in all the wrong places. I should have been strong but I was weak. God has always been on my side, yet I pushed him away and allowed my heart to become entangled into something I still do not how to control.

I don't believe saying I am sorry is appropriate at this point, but I still have to say it, I am sorry. I know I've hurt you deeply in the process and I have hurt innocent people as well. My intentions were never to cause anyone pain but to selfishly find a way to satisfy my own needs without much regard of anyone else. I am so sorry for myself because I broke my own heart in the process.

The consequences to my actions are now a living, breathing, human being, OC. She does not deserve to be brought into a situation like this. She does not deserve to be the result of the poor choices made by me, yet she is and will continue to be a daily reminder of the biggest mistake of my life. All I can do now is pray for forgiveness and how appropriate, God's Grace.

I do want to thank you for accepting OC as your own daughter and for the love you give to her. I am touched every day when I see you hold her, and love her probably with more intensity than you did our other two girls. You are a remarkable man and I was too blind to see it. You may not be perfect but God has a special place for men like you in Heaven, that much I am certain of. You continue to show me what true love really is.

Right now I know I seem distant and uncertain of what I want, I am trying not to make things worse, I keep praying for God's guidance on this situation because my heart tells me one thing yet my head says another. I have to have faith that everything will work out in the end, yet I am filled with guilt for the pain I've caused and I am still causing. No matter what the circumstances, I am not yet convinced it is best for him not to have any part of Emma's life. But I do have to accept his decision for now. Perhaps it is best in the long run, perhaps this will prevent DD1 and DD2 from more hurt, either way, I am just having a hard time with all of this and trying to come to terms with how things are now.

As far as our relationship goes, I am not sure how we can rebuild it, or where life will take us from here. All I know right now is that in order for me not to repeat the mistakes of the past, I need to figure out how I got there in the first place. What in my life led me into this path and what I can do to prevent this from ever hapenning again.

Moving to (another state) was probably the best choice we could have made, but it does not mean I can go on every day and pretend everything is alright and move on with my life as if nothing has hapenned, because it has. I will never be the same person I was before, and now I have a child to also consider.

Thank you for hanging in there with me through all the pain. I only pray one day I can measure up to you and I can give you in return the love, kindness and respect you have given me.

Me (WS)

THIS WAS HIS REPLY, Short and sweet as you can see but I guess I was hoping for more.

__________

Thank you for this letter. I know it was tough but please realize how important it is. One of the issues I have been struggling with was the fact that you had not said that you were sorry.
I believe we both had parts in this and have grown from the experience and through prayer, I am confident that we will get past this.

I love you and appreciate what you do for all of us!
BS

wow. pray for u

Good job Becca.

dont underestimate the power of honestly saying sorry. your husband has already reinforced that by his reply.


Its a bit disturbing that you use " not appropriate ", rather than something like "inadequate". I will presume that you mean "inadequate".

if at some point in the future, you feel like apologizing again.. even if you feel that is so inadequate.. just do it. from your heart, show your husband how sorry you feel for what you did.

it may feel inadequate to you, but it will mean a lot to him. every time you say it honestly, it will mean a lot to him.

as for "hoping for more"... I think you underestimate how much you have gotten. He has completely accepted you, after being hurt more than you can probably imagine. That is huge. I hope that gives you more comfort.

techie is right. there are times (myself included) that we look for so much that we miss the true valuables that we have.

slow calm thoughtful honesty is much appreciated.

the old M is gone. but look out! if treated carefully your new M will become incredible.

hang in there and know that God watches over you.

do the right thing.

McB~ You're making it sound like you only have 1 option.

Stay M and be miserable.

That's nonsense.

You have the very real option of being happily M.

It's up to you at this point.

And as far as your H's response to your letter-- I completely agree with techie. What your H said to you was as if he wrote 10,000 words. He said so much to you!!

Open your eyes McB. You've got a precious gift of a man. You've got some of the best H "material" that many women only dream of.

And it's good to remember this....

Sometimes...

Still waters run very deep.

(I stole that from the wise man) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Becca, you may not think that was much in the way of a reply from your H but it brought tears to my eyes.

It said volumes about how he feels about you and what you mean to him and what sort of good man he is. I agree with AD. My H is also a very quiet man but when he does give himself, he gives himself completely.

be grateful. If the shoe was on the other foot what would you want? If that the limit of his capacity accept it with love.


The one person who stands by you and still wants you is there..........still.

McB~ I forgot to ask about this earlier... Are you saying xom has said he is staying out of your OC's life? Or was that a typo?

Also, did you happen to catch kdsheartbreak's post to you on your thread over at P/C? It was the most heartwarming story regarding the situation w/ an OC I've ever read about. It gave me much hope for the future.

McB,

It was nice of you to write the letter. But, now you have piqued my curiosity.

You said
Please tell me what you were hoping for. I am very curious. Perhaps you could write out what you hoped to hear from him and post it here.

Could I translate his letter for you? Thank you I will. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He said:

He shows appreciationg for your effort to write the letter, but more he shows empathy for how hard it was for you to do it. This is very good. Finally, he is telling you that to him this isn't just "any" letter. This letter is very important to him.


First, he tells you that this whole thing is a "struggle" for him. Can you image what he is going through? Consider it. Worse he is trying to do this (rebuild the marriage and the family) without knowing if you were sorry or not. Now you have said it, and he accepts that you are in fact sorry. Can you image doing what he is doing, and NOT knowing that you felt any remorse or sorrow for what you have done? Pretty darned impressive if you ask me. The man must truely and deeply love you.



Man this sentences says alot. For one thing he is taking part of the blame on himself. Secondly, he is NOT holding you full responsible for the state of the marriage and perhaps even your decision to have the affair. In short YOU are NOT a bad guy (girl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) in his eyes. And finally, he believes HE can learn from this and be a better husband, and more importantly he has confidence in you, therefore the marriage can be rebuilt to better than it was.


I don't how you could hope for more. IN the middle of all this including not knowing if you are truly sorry for what you have done, he loves you and appreciates you and your presence in his life and the families life.

So please tell me how he could have said more. Yes, he was spare with the words, but all of the IMPORTANT words are there and they completely explain his position.

He accepts blame for the marriage. He loves you. He did all that he has done without knowing you were even sorry for what you did (do you see why right now talking about OM just might hurt, when he doesn't even know you are sorry?) He sees the good in you and he accepts this child and the responsibility of rearing her.

I know he is NOT the OM...he is far better. Your decisions have offered him an OPPORTUNITY to show you his love for you, and he has risen to the occasion. Impressive.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Dear JL,

You are so adorable.

Sincerely,

Your fan

AMM,


You are most kind. I have never been called adorable before. I have been called a lot of things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> but adorable is not one of them. I have no idea what has prompted this statement, but thank you.

God Bless,

JL

If I wanted him out of OC life (he thinks that's what I am doing by stayng married to H and here in another state) because I don't want to leave H then he would walk away. He knows H does not want him around DD and I also told him what H has said up until that point.

No I need to go back and read her post, thanks for pointing this out.

Becca

Maybe is the "fog", maybe is all these years of begging him for attention and love, heck equality!! (long story, he always believed women were second class citizens, very 50's attitude until counseling last year after my A). I don't know but I guess I have a hard time believing he isn't going to use the baby to control me again. That was another issue in our marriage, he controlled my every move for 14 yrs until I "rebelled" two years ago and that's when A started.

I know it is hard to give all the details of a marriage on these posts/boards but there is just so much baggage and I am afraid this (OMC) will just put us over the top!!

But you are right, what he wrote and what he is agreeing to is very important. Still, my fears of the past and what all this could mean in terms of how he will treat me from this point forward, are the reason I want counseling in the worse way. Of course my feelings for OM need to be work through as well.

Not sure if this helps you understand my problems and why I feel so reluctant to all of this.

Thanks so much for your help sweetie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Becca - I think the best thing for you right now is to get some anti-depressants. People here might not agree, but they were a life saver for me.

You have a lot of problems, with your children, the OC, OM, and your husband. It must seem very hopeless.

The anti-D's will enable you to feel good about some things that you might not appreciate right now while you are under all of this stress. You will be stronger and will be able to make better choices.

You have my admiration for trying to do the right thing even though it is exremely painful.

Becca, did you just call JL sweetie? LMAO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Adorable and sweetie all in one day. Not bad for a very tall (old as a dinosaur) scientist. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You do know he's a man don't you? A lot of people first think he's a woman. Poor JL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It must be your feminine side that comes out when you post. He really is wonderful, Becca. He almost single handedly saved my marriage.

It's interesting you mention "controlling". An awful lot of FWW's have had the perception they've been controlled. My H never controlled me as such but I never wanted to rock the boat by stating my own opinions. Our MC asked my H what would have happened if I'd stated I didn't like something he liked etc. My H said he would have thought that was my opinion and he would have been happy to hear it. My perception had always been I had to agree with everything he thought or did because we were married. So silly, especially if you knew my H.

Becca, I second Believer's admiration that you are trying to do the right thing.

E GAD,

My feminine side is coming out???? Oh Boy! I am in trouble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

McB, the issues you mentioned should be discussed with a counselor. I am of a mind that they should be mentioned to your H. Not in an accusing manner, but in the manner of what "you have felt".

I don't have time tonight, but I hope that Autumn Day comes back around and maybe I can encourage K to come out of retirement. It is K's posts that have perhaps made the most profound affect on me in the over 7 years here. His W had an affair and yes a child was conceived and delivered from this affair. Adding another child to the two they already had. K counseled with Steve Harley before this board ever started.

The one thing K said in discussing what happened to him, was that he came to the conclusion, that his W being pregnant from her affair was and OPPORTUNITY to restore his marriage.

You have no idea how that statement blew me away. I just really could not digest it, but gradually I did and I came to understand his point of view...it has changed my life.

He had a chance to SHOW his W how much he had always loved her and did love her. And he did. That little boy is I think 7-8 years old now, and K loves him. And his marriage has survived. It has not been an easy time, his W has had medical issues and such.

But consider the concept that he felt her pregnancy was an OPPORTUNITY. I ask you to do this because I think your H is viewing this the same way. You say he is controlling, you say he is 50's in his out look, but you never say the obvious...HE LOVES YOU DEEPLY. This child has given him a chance to show you, that he loves you deeply and apparently he has siezed this opportunity.

Autumn Day's H did a similar thing and they have not look back since. Her OC was viewed by her H as chance to get their marriage right.

You have a lot of fears because you are focused ONLY on yourself. You are avoiding facing what you did to your H and your family AND you are avoiding the very real possibility that your H loves you MORE than you ever realized. As KiwiJ (Jen) said, you are making the DJ of assuming how he is thinking.

Please think about this and let's discuss it further.

God Bless,

JL

The right thing for me? for my two other DD? for the OC? for H? for OM?? This is where I fall I apart, the "Right" thing should have been for this to never happen, but it did and now what on earth IS the "right" thing? DO I stay married and work on my marriage for the sake of my other two kids? Do I just drop my heart and all feelings for OM to the bottom on the ocean and never look back??

I guess I am not convinced yet staying married IS the "right thing". Doesn't H deserve someone who feels the same way I feel about OM towards him? Why should he settle with someone still in love (or "in fog") with OM?

And what about my girls? Will they one day think it was "novel" of me to staying married to their Dad while in love with OM? will they one day understand the pain I am going throuhg??

H had 16 yrs to do the "right thing" too and he chose to focus on himself, his job, him, him, him and now that OM is in the picture he wants to do the "right thing" and make our marriage work? I just don't if I can. I don't know if I can put OM and OC out of my mind and heart and "move on".

THis wasn't some one night stand, it was a 2 year friendship/relationship, for goodness sake I met OM's family!! so I guess this is what makes my decision so hard.

I don't know how all these other posters have made their M work regarless of OM and OC. I am not sure I Will ever get there.

I keep thinking of the pain he is in, of all that he is missing by not having is daughter with him. Some days I think the "right thing" is for me to divorce H and he can have his 2 DD and OM can have access to his one and everyone is happy!!

Sundays are hard.... I don't even feel like I belong in church anymore. How could anyone there ever understand what I am going through.... they all carry on about their business and not even realize the pain we are in.

B