Ok so I thought week 1 was bad enough, but then last week it didn't seem so bad, and here I am in the middle of week 3 and falling apart. Crying, thinking too much, missing him, etc etc etc

The worse part is communication is the worse issue in our marriage so talking to H is not possible and right now I am afraid I would just hurt his feelings. How do I get through this??

For background info A from 12/04 to 5/06 with a few tries to NC in between after D-day 10/05. OC born 6/8/06, NC since 8/5. Moved to another state so PA not possible but gosh I just miss my friend.

Haven't started MC yet due to time constrains so I don't know where to turn right now. Even God feels so far away....

Becca\

Just a quick thought...don't dismiss PPD as a possibility.

Have you talked to your doctor about the possiblity of an antidepressant short term?

McBecca, it will actually get worse before it gets better.

Not very uplifting I know. Are you on AD's?

It is a grief process and you have to go through all the stages.

One day, trust me, if you don't give into the urge to contact him, you will wake up one morning and you will realise that he hasn't been in your thoughts quite so much, then hardly at all, then not at all.

I visited a grief website when I was going through this and it helped immensely.

PPD? AD? hmmm... maybe you guys are right...

Maybe I should ask for some.... I feel like I lost my best friend,the only person I could be "me" with and didn't feel judged, the only person that seemed to know just what to say or do to make me feel better. I feel so alone.

Is this all part of withdrawl?

B

Absolutely part of withdrawal.

Can you lean on your H more? Give him the chance McBecca, seriously, give him the chance. You will NOT hurt his feelings by being honest with him. He is probably extremely concerned, extremely worried and extremely insecure right now.

DON'T give in to the urge to contact the OM. You will be very, very pleased you didn't.

No contact is horrible.

It will feel horrible.

It will feel horrible for a very long time.

I will get better with time.

Distraction was the only thing that worked with me. I developed hobbies that became obsessions.

I began to exercise to exhaustion. For the first year after my affair I ran at least 50 mile a week, every week. I ran in the rain, in the snow, in the blistering heat of August. I always ran alone, mostly in a local forest. It took up my free time and I need to have that free time gone.

What problem do you have with communication with your H? You need to identify what is going on and to fix it. My affair also started with a friend, and communication was what we did best together. You need to find a way to get this need met with your husband.

Yes, it is all part of withdrawl.

Sadly no way out but through.

You have invested years of yourself in this affair and have even produced a child..the loss is going to HURT and it's going to hurt a lot.

I would look into at least a short term AD..even if you DON'T have PPD it may still help you through withdrawl...Dr Harley often recommends ADs for the WS during the withdrawl period.

How do I do that?? How do I tell him that I miss OM?? that if it wasn't for our children I would be there with OM?? gosh, that is just as cruel as the A itself!!! but I can't even seem able to let him console me. I don't want him to touch me or be intimate with me. I put on a smile the minute he walks in the door bu I cry at night when he is asleep.

I keep praying and praying for some type of comfort.
Becca

The problemm is he is not big into "talking", he likes to fix things and talkign to him is wasteful so that has been our problem the 16 yrs we've been together. I accepted ths by becoming involved in other things, work, church, children (and eventually A). But we moved so I am in a new city ALONE with a baby and NC is proving to be excrutiating right now.

To make matters worse MC hasn't started yet and probably won't for a while since H is working 60/70 hr weeks right now. I am staying at home and trying to find ways to keep busy but with a newborn in the house it is hard.

I have two close friends I call and talk about this a lot and that helps too. I just thought I was doing better but then all of a sudden it all blows on my face and I fall apart.

B

Has it occurred to you that you are dying of thirst while surrounded by water?

Your post indicates to me that you want comfort..but you want it from OM..you specifically do NOT want comfort/intimacy/honesty from your H and are not willing to allow it even a little.

You are withdrawn from your H at this time...you have rolled up the rug and locked the doors emotionally speaking..so take THAT and add to it that you have also removed OM as a source of comfort and what have you got?

What have you got McBecca? Isolation. Is it any suprise then that you are struggling with depression?

The plan that you are carrying out currently has *zero* chance of success..this is an intermission not a recovery.

Continue down this road and it will lead you right back to OM and affair.

Either you recover your marriage or you do not.

Are there any ENs that you are willing to allow your H to meet?

What are they and how might he go about doing it?

Becca,

Don't sell your husband short. He is still with you isn't he? Even after you've done the worse possilble thing you can do to a spouse, he is still there by your side.

That is a man that you can trust. If you are hurting tell him so. Let him comfort you (even if you don't really want him do it right now). Can you imagine how he feels? He sees his wife in pain and he wants to help her, but she won't let him.

If you ever want to have an intimate realtionship with your H you are going to have to expose yourself to him, your going to have to make yourself vulnerable, and you going to have to let him comfort you if he wants to.

I initally stayed with my wife for the kids too. That is a fine reason to stay. At one time I loathed my wife, I couldn't touch her or be touched by her. I slept the spare bedroom for a very long time. I would leave the room when she entered . . . Any of this sound familiar?

I love my wife again. Our marriage is better that it has ever been. We are friends . . . and lovers. This takes time.

I need to figure that out.... The thing is we aren't currently "actively" trying to recover or fix our M. I think H is waiting for me to take the initiative. He's kind and tells me he will not go down without a fight but he has done nothing in terms of our relationship right now. We did some MC last year when I told him about the A but that was for about 2 months and nothing since.

We moved before child was born and I guess we were fooling ourselves thinking that would solve all the problems. In the meantime we found out C belongs to OM and that just brought me back to square one!

B

WOW yes it does sound familiar!!! I am so afraid to hurt him but how can I hurt him any more than I already have uh??

Thanks, your post gives me hope!

I realize that this is very personal and painfull for you..but as you read here and study affair dynamics..I think you'll come to agree that it's all very formulaic as well.

Going to MC while in an affair is futile and pointless..you'd do better to spend the money at the local movie theater..at least then you'd be getting in some recreation together.

First things first...withdrawl. You will have to withdraw from OM..and the addiction of the A before you will be able to transfer the account back to the rightfull owner [your H]...until then..your heart pretty much invalidates and will not recognize any deposits he might try to make.

Second..if you have decided that in fact you are going to stick it out and remain married [for the children or whatever reason floats your boat] then begin to find ways to communicate effectively and build bridges and connections.

It took 16 years to get where you are today..it isn't going to undo itself magically.

I would suggest call Harleys for specific and strategic plans for recovery.

If OM does not know about the baby...personally I would not tell him.

A child produced inside of your marriage is legally your Hs...you are asking your H to raise the child...contact with the OP due to childcare issues is notorious for reactivating affairs and should be avoided IMO whenever possible. Lifelong NC is required price of admission to recovery...not a possibility if you intentionally make a permanent place in your life [and your Hs life] for OM.

Becca,

This stuff is going to hurt like ******. There, I've said it. It is going to hurt, and it is going to hurt for a very long time.

Your marriage is very damaged. You both know this. It is time to stop pretending that everthing is fine and to fix want is broken. You two have kids . . . and now you have another from OM. This is messy and is going to be that way for a while.

Start communicating with your H . . . even if it is awkward and feels like a root-canal. Make a point of talking to him every day about issues of substance. Tell him what is going on in your life. Find out what he experienced that day. Share little details . . . this is want draws us close . . . this is what sustains a marriage.

Becka,

When my fws and I first attempted to recover our marriage, it was slow, awkward, painful, and the silences were filled with a cloud of heaviness.

I know in his mind, he was wondering if I ever would forget what happened. He assumed that I would use the affair like a club to beat him down with it, everytime we reached a bump in the road.

Its part of the slow journey to marriage recovery.

Luckily for my fws, I was overwhelmed with pain, and compassion for what he was going through.

He allowed me to cuddle with him every night.

I know it wasn't comfortable at first for him.

But by allowing me to hold him at night, we both found comfort in dealing with all the unsaid words and questions of the earlier day.

The great thing about cuddling is that there are no words needed.

Just loving arms.

I know you must feel grief and withdrawal, but I promise, it will lesson over time, and once your withdrawal is complete, the real healing will begin.

"Fake it til you make it"


Sincerely,
k.d.'s heartbreak

McBecca, I've just posted The Affair World on Marshmallow's thread. It's very long but it may help.

McB,

You said
Let's see he is doing nothing right? First what will you LET him do? How about NOTHING? That is the answer right. Because if he does something, if he could prove to you that he is a man of love, integrity, and forgivness, THEN you would be faced with the reality that you have failed your family, your new child, your H, your marriage AND yourself for....NOTHING. Isn't that what you are afraid of?

Now here is the bad news. He is there because he loves you. He sees a baby in his house everyday and he knows it is NOT his and worse this child is the product of your complete betrayal of all YOU hold dear and yes him. Yet.... there your H is, working long hours, providing and saying really really dumb (sarcasam intended) like "he will not go down without a fight."

And yet YOU claim he is doing nothing. Do you now understand why people in your position are said to be in the "fog"? McB you need to stop and face the reality here.

I would encourage you to go to the archives and search for "facing choices". She was a woman a lot like you. She was the reason I registered here after reading here for 6 months. After you read her archived posts, look for her last post. You will be amazed. Also read the history of the lady posting to you on the pregnancy/child section...AD.

Unfortunatley, some of "facing choices" posts were lost in a big disk crash around 2000 or so, but you will get the idea.

Time for some soul searching young lady, and time to realize you have someone willing to help IF you will let him.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

McBecca,

For some guidelines on withdrawal, please click the "Withdrawal guide" link in my signature line.

WOW JL thanks I read all her posts, and OMG what a story!!! it took me all monrning and lots of tears but I read all the posts that are still available. Why, such a story and happy ending. I am so amazed how things turned for her and I can't believe how similar our stories seem to be.

Thanks for pointing me in that direction. I am hoping tomorrow this week ends and I can put this week behind me. I am glad I haven't even attempted to C OM and reading her posts really made me think twice! I had an email almost similar to one of her "hate" emails to him that I wanted tosend but I won't. I will just leave it as it is.

thanks again to all...
Becca

McB,

What did you learn from facing choices posts? What resonates with you in her story? It is time you stepped back now and really looked at things, but let's begin with FC's story and then we will get you to read Autumn Day's story.

History can teach a lot if we are willing to look at it, think about it, and learn from it. Are you ready for another history lesson? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My point? Perspective, perspective, perspective McB, this is all about perspective. I truely believe your perspective on your H is wrong, and hence you are committing some big time disrespectful judgemenst, DJ's. That will kill your marriage.

If you want help from him, you are going to need to ask for it. I will also tell you that in my reading here for over 7 years, the couples that recovered the best and fastest were those where the WS allowed the BS to help them, and the BS was strong enough to sit and listen to the WS talk about their feelings for the OP. Tough stuff, very tough for both, but somehow once people survive that, then the healing begins.

You have a long ways to go, but frankly you have the rest of your life to get there. You and your H share children and he is willing to raise the newest member of your family. You two are connected in ways you don't fully understand yet, but no matter what you do...you are connected. The only issue left is whether this connection will be allowed to bring happiness into your life and his life. You control your happiness, he can merely share it with you. Please think about this very carefully. YOU CONTROL YOUR HAPPINESS, so do you have a plan yet that will allow you to be happy, and let your H share in it??

Must go, I am glad you read FC's posts. Something about them were very powerful to me, and I hoped they might be to you.

God Bless,

JL

I should know better. Until MC gets started there is no point in talking to him. He actually initiated the conversation but it went south the minute I tried to explain to him how I feel. He thinks I am only thinkking about OM in this situation and feeling sorry for him instead of thinking about H and how he feels and what he is going through.

He made threats of what would happen if I try to leave him (he says he will use my A and OC to take all 3 kids from me etc). He tried to tell me I would be ruining everyone's life if I ever allow OM to have C with OC, that he will not be staying at that point and I will be responsible for what happens to our kids emotionally when they find out about their sister is a half sister etc.

In other words, I was left feeling worse than before. Once again I feel I have no choice but to stay M no matter how unahppy we both are because that protects our children.

I called for MC today and hopefully by early next week we will have an appointment.

He says I am being selfish by not being able to move on and forget about OM and OC and just let him raise her and go on about our lives.

We both cried, he was angry I was bringing up OM and I Was angry he wasn't even try to understand how I feel and my emotions. Nothing new :-(

So how do you let your H help you if he himself needs help?
B

McB,

Ok, let's go over a few things first. You don't understand the connections yet do you? You said:
And what have you done that would make him feel otherwise? Even in these posts you don't discuss what you have done to make amends to your H. You only discuss yourself and your feelings for OM. You may not understand this but it is high time you did. Your H has been betrayed in the most awful fashion...by you. You will notice if you read this site for awhile, that people who have been betrayed become HYPER sensitive to their partner. They can and do pick up things their WS partner never seem to realize they do. Women, especially fail to understand this, because the usual stereotypcial male is not supposed to be sensitive. Well, after being betraye they sure as heck are.

Your H is reading you like a book and frankly what he is saying is probably more true than you want to admit. So I repeat my question. What are you doing to show him his view of things is incorrect? I don't mean what are you telling him, what are you DOING? Have you ever sat down and written out what you think he must be feeling and thinking about all of this? Try it, and then read it to him. You both will be surprised.


EXCELLENT. You don't know this yet, but he isn't trying to hold you against your will, he is fight for you and this marriage, and in the anger and hurt, what you get is what you got. But, the man wants to be married to you, love you, be loved by you. You don't understand, if you having the OC had crushed him completely, he would be gone and perhaps your other children as well. Your marriage has a chance ONLY because he is hurt, angry, mad, and willing to fight.

This is/was a very good thing. You two have a chance as long as he is like this. If he starts to withdraw, and ceases to show emotion then YOU and your marriage have a huge problem. And yes the children will be hurt, if you don't understand anything else, it is that they will be harmed.

Sorry to say this but this is a self-serving, stupid comment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> You have a variety of options besides eating worms. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> You could use this opportunity, and it is an OPPORTUNITY to make the marriage much better than it ever has. You could use this opportunity to improve yourself. Your H could and seems willing to use this OPPORTUNITY to improve himself. The solution is not stay or go. It is far richer than that. You could rebuild, change, love deeply, enjoy your life, your children, and each other.

It will be up to the both of you.




Excellent. But, see if you can begin to see that there is a win-win if you stay in your marriage and with your children. Your life will not be easy, but it can become better than ever. You really need to talk to Autumn Day alot about this.


And this statement is wrong? How? You won't just move on and you will NEVER forget OM. But the feeling associated with the memories will fade and be replaced by feelings for your H. This is the way of things.


So are you trying to understand how your H feels? You can talk to your H about how you feel about OM, but you need to come at it the right way. I think your H understand how you feel about OM <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Much more than you understand how your H feels. You see he understands the bonds of fatherhood much better than you realize, and he probably understands that your feelings are very very deep for OM and it hurts him so because you don't understand how deep your H's feelings are for you.


Oh this one is simple, but it is not easy. You let your H help you by helping your H. As you talk to him about his feelings, his fears, his insecurities you will find that it will help you in ways you won't understand. When and if he opens up about these things and assuming you treat his feelings with care, he will become stronger and more able to handle YOUR feelings. You don't understand his anger is driven by pain and fear. Pain at what you have done, and fear you will leave. He fears that if you talk about OM, it will make OM more in your mind and you more willing to leave. As he starts to see you differently via your talking with him, he will understand things differently.

A really good place to start and practice this is with the MC present. IF the MC is pro-marriage and good, he will show you both how to do this, much better than someone like me can.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Dear H,

I am writting this to you today because I think it is finally time for me to own up to the huge mess I've created. For the last almost 2 years of our marriage I have done nothing but damage our already weak relationship by allowing another person in our lives. I have tried to find blame in you, in what you did or didn't do, in the times we didn't even fight because it was best to just ignore the issues, in the times it was best for me to talk to a stranger than to you. But as I sit here looking at my life with you during these 16 years, I realize the choices that I made were made by me and no one else but me.

I was desperate for the love I thought I no longer had from you, I was desperate to fill the void that so many times I felt in my heart. Yet I went looking for this in all the wrong places. I should have been strong but I was weak. God has always been on my side, yet I pushed him away and allowed my heart to become entangled into something I still do not how to control.

I don't believe saying I am sorry is appropriate at this point, but I still have to say it, I am sorry. I know I've hurt you deeply in the process and I have hurt innocent people as well. My intentions were never to cause anyone pain but to selfishly find a way to satisfy my own needs without much regard of anyone else. I am so sorry for myself because I broke my own heart in the process.

The consequences to my actions are now a living, breathing, human being, OC. She does not deserve to be brought into a situation like this. She does not deserve to be the result of the poor choices made by me, yet she is and will continue to be a daily reminder of the biggest mistake of my life. All I can do now is pray for forgiveness and how appropriate, God's Grace.

I do want to thank you for accepting OC as your own daughter and for the love you give to her. I am touched every day when I see you hold her, and love her probably with more intensity than you did our other two girls. You are a remarkable man and I was too blind to see it. You may not be perfect but God has a special place for men like you in Heaven, that much I am certain of. You continue to show me what true love really is.

Right now I know I seem distant and uncertain of what I want, I am trying not to make things worse, I keep praying for God's guidance on this situation because my heart tells me one thing yet my head says another. I have to have faith that everything will work out in the end, yet I am filled with guilt for the pain I've caused and I am still causing. No matter what the circumstances, I am not yet convinced it is best for him not to have any part of Emma's life. But I do have to accept his decision for now. Perhaps it is best in the long run, perhaps this will prevent DD1 and DD2 from more hurt, either way, I am just having a hard time with all of this and trying to come to terms with how things are now.

As far as our relationship goes, I am not sure how we can rebuild it, or where life will take us from here. All I know right now is that in order for me not to repeat the mistakes of the past, I need to figure out how I got there in the first place. What in my life led me into this path and what I can do to prevent this from ever hapenning again.

Moving to (another state) was probably the best choice we could have made, but it does not mean I can go on every day and pretend everything is alright and move on with my life as if nothing has hapenned, because it has. I will never be the same person I was before, and now I have a child to also consider.

Thank you for hanging in there with me through all the pain. I only pray one day I can measure up to you and I can give you in return the love, kindness and respect you have given me.

Me (WS)

THIS WAS HIS REPLY, Short and sweet as you can see but I guess I was hoping for more.

__________

Thank you for this letter. I know it was tough but please realize how important it is. One of the issues I have been struggling with was the fact that you had not said that you were sorry.
I believe we both had parts in this and have grown from the experience and through prayer, I am confident that we will get past this.

I love you and appreciate what you do for all of us!
BS

wow. pray for u

Good job Becca.

dont underestimate the power of honestly saying sorry. your husband has already reinforced that by his reply.


Its a bit disturbing that you use " not appropriate ", rather than something like "inadequate". I will presume that you mean "inadequate".

if at some point in the future, you feel like apologizing again.. even if you feel that is so inadequate.. just do it. from your heart, show your husband how sorry you feel for what you did.

it may feel inadequate to you, but it will mean a lot to him. every time you say it honestly, it will mean a lot to him.

as for "hoping for more"... I think you underestimate how much you have gotten. He has completely accepted you, after being hurt more than you can probably imagine. That is huge. I hope that gives you more comfort.

techie is right. there are times (myself included) that we look for so much that we miss the true valuables that we have.

slow calm thoughtful honesty is much appreciated.

the old M is gone. but look out! if treated carefully your new M will become incredible.

hang in there and know that God watches over you.

do the right thing.

McB~ You're making it sound like you only have 1 option.

Stay M and be miserable.

That's nonsense.

You have the very real option of being happily M.

It's up to you at this point.

And as far as your H's response to your letter-- I completely agree with techie. What your H said to you was as if he wrote 10,000 words. He said so much to you!!

Open your eyes McB. You've got a precious gift of a man. You've got some of the best H "material" that many women only dream of.

And it's good to remember this....

Sometimes...

Still waters run very deep.

(I stole that from the wise man) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Becca, you may not think that was much in the way of a reply from your H but it brought tears to my eyes.

It said volumes about how he feels about you and what you mean to him and what sort of good man he is. I agree with AD. My H is also a very quiet man but when he does give himself, he gives himself completely.

be grateful. If the shoe was on the other foot what would you want? If that the limit of his capacity accept it with love.


The one person who stands by you and still wants you is there..........still.

McB~ I forgot to ask about this earlier... Are you saying xom has said he is staying out of your OC's life? Or was that a typo?

Also, did you happen to catch kdsheartbreak's post to you on your thread over at P/C? It was the most heartwarming story regarding the situation w/ an OC I've ever read about. It gave me much hope for the future.

McB,

It was nice of you to write the letter. But, now you have piqued my curiosity.

You said
Please tell me what you were hoping for. I am very curious. Perhaps you could write out what you hoped to hear from him and post it here.

Could I translate his letter for you? Thank you I will. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He said:

He shows appreciationg for your effort to write the letter, but more he shows empathy for how hard it was for you to do it. This is very good. Finally, he is telling you that to him this isn't just "any" letter. This letter is very important to him.


First, he tells you that this whole thing is a "struggle" for him. Can you image what he is going through? Consider it. Worse he is trying to do this (rebuild the marriage and the family) without knowing if you were sorry or not. Now you have said it, and he accepts that you are in fact sorry. Can you image doing what he is doing, and NOT knowing that you felt any remorse or sorrow for what you have done? Pretty darned impressive if you ask me. The man must truely and deeply love you.



Man this sentences says alot. For one thing he is taking part of the blame on himself. Secondly, he is NOT holding you full responsible for the state of the marriage and perhaps even your decision to have the affair. In short YOU are NOT a bad guy (girl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) in his eyes. And finally, he believes HE can learn from this and be a better husband, and more importantly he has confidence in you, therefore the marriage can be rebuilt to better than it was.


I don't how you could hope for more. IN the middle of all this including not knowing if you are truly sorry for what you have done, he loves you and appreciates you and your presence in his life and the families life.

So please tell me how he could have said more. Yes, he was spare with the words, but all of the IMPORTANT words are there and they completely explain his position.

He accepts blame for the marriage. He loves you. He did all that he has done without knowing you were even sorry for what you did (do you see why right now talking about OM just might hurt, when he doesn't even know you are sorry?) He sees the good in you and he accepts this child and the responsibility of rearing her.

I know he is NOT the OM...he is far better. Your decisions have offered him an OPPORTUNITY to show you his love for you, and he has risen to the occasion. Impressive.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Dear JL,

You are so adorable.

Sincerely,

Your fan

AMM,


You are most kind. I have never been called adorable before. I have been called a lot of things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> but adorable is not one of them. I have no idea what has prompted this statement, but thank you.

God Bless,

JL

If I wanted him out of OC life (he thinks that's what I am doing by stayng married to H and here in another state) because I don't want to leave H then he would walk away. He knows H does not want him around DD and I also told him what H has said up until that point.

No I need to go back and read her post, thanks for pointing this out.

Becca

Maybe is the "fog", maybe is all these years of begging him for attention and love, heck equality!! (long story, he always believed women were second class citizens, very 50's attitude until counseling last year after my A). I don't know but I guess I have a hard time believing he isn't going to use the baby to control me again. That was another issue in our marriage, he controlled my every move for 14 yrs until I "rebelled" two years ago and that's when A started.

I know it is hard to give all the details of a marriage on these posts/boards but there is just so much baggage and I am afraid this (OMC) will just put us over the top!!

But you are right, what he wrote and what he is agreeing to is very important. Still, my fears of the past and what all this could mean in terms of how he will treat me from this point forward, are the reason I want counseling in the worse way. Of course my feelings for OM need to be work through as well.

Not sure if this helps you understand my problems and why I feel so reluctant to all of this.

Thanks so much for your help sweetie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Becca - I think the best thing for you right now is to get some anti-depressants. People here might not agree, but they were a life saver for me.

You have a lot of problems, with your children, the OC, OM, and your husband. It must seem very hopeless.

The anti-D's will enable you to feel good about some things that you might not appreciate right now while you are under all of this stress. You will be stronger and will be able to make better choices.

You have my admiration for trying to do the right thing even though it is exremely painful.

Becca, did you just call JL sweetie? LMAO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Adorable and sweetie all in one day. Not bad for a very tall (old as a dinosaur) scientist. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You do know he's a man don't you? A lot of people first think he's a woman. Poor JL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It must be your feminine side that comes out when you post. He really is wonderful, Becca. He almost single handedly saved my marriage.

It's interesting you mention "controlling". An awful lot of FWW's have had the perception they've been controlled. My H never controlled me as such but I never wanted to rock the boat by stating my own opinions. Our MC asked my H what would have happened if I'd stated I didn't like something he liked etc. My H said he would have thought that was my opinion and he would have been happy to hear it. My perception had always been I had to agree with everything he thought or did because we were married. So silly, especially if you knew my H.

Becca, I second Believer's admiration that you are trying to do the right thing.

E GAD,

My feminine side is coming out???? Oh Boy! I am in trouble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

McB, the issues you mentioned should be discussed with a counselor. I am of a mind that they should be mentioned to your H. Not in an accusing manner, but in the manner of what "you have felt".

I don't have time tonight, but I hope that Autumn Day comes back around and maybe I can encourage K to come out of retirement. It is K's posts that have perhaps made the most profound affect on me in the over 7 years here. His W had an affair and yes a child was conceived and delivered from this affair. Adding another child to the two they already had. K counseled with Steve Harley before this board ever started.

The one thing K said in discussing what happened to him, was that he came to the conclusion, that his W being pregnant from her affair was and OPPORTUNITY to restore his marriage.

You have no idea how that statement blew me away. I just really could not digest it, but gradually I did and I came to understand his point of view...it has changed my life.

He had a chance to SHOW his W how much he had always loved her and did love her. And he did. That little boy is I think 7-8 years old now, and K loves him. And his marriage has survived. It has not been an easy time, his W has had medical issues and such.

But consider the concept that he felt her pregnancy was an OPPORTUNITY. I ask you to do this because I think your H is viewing this the same way. You say he is controlling, you say he is 50's in his out look, but you never say the obvious...HE LOVES YOU DEEPLY. This child has given him a chance to show you, that he loves you deeply and apparently he has siezed this opportunity.

Autumn Day's H did a similar thing and they have not look back since. Her OC was viewed by her H as chance to get their marriage right.

You have a lot of fears because you are focused ONLY on yourself. You are avoiding facing what you did to your H and your family AND you are avoiding the very real possibility that your H loves you MORE than you ever realized. As KiwiJ (Jen) said, you are making the DJ of assuming how he is thinking.

Please think about this and let's discuss it further.

God Bless,

JL

The right thing for me? for my two other DD? for the OC? for H? for OM?? This is where I fall I apart, the "Right" thing should have been for this to never happen, but it did and now what on earth IS the "right" thing? DO I stay married and work on my marriage for the sake of my other two kids? Do I just drop my heart and all feelings for OM to the bottom on the ocean and never look back??

I guess I am not convinced yet staying married IS the "right thing". Doesn't H deserve someone who feels the same way I feel about OM towards him? Why should he settle with someone still in love (or "in fog") with OM?

And what about my girls? Will they one day think it was "novel" of me to staying married to their Dad while in love with OM? will they one day understand the pain I am going throuhg??

H had 16 yrs to do the "right thing" too and he chose to focus on himself, his job, him, him, him and now that OM is in the picture he wants to do the "right thing" and make our marriage work? I just don't if I can. I don't know if I can put OM and OC out of my mind and heart and "move on".

THis wasn't some one night stand, it was a 2 year friendship/relationship, for goodness sake I met OM's family!! so I guess this is what makes my decision so hard.

I don't know how all these other posters have made their M work regarless of OM and OC. I am not sure I Will ever get there.

I keep thinking of the pain he is in, of all that he is missing by not having is daughter with him. Some days I think the "right thing" is for me to divorce H and he can have his 2 DD and OM can have access to his one and everyone is happy!!

Sundays are hard.... I don't even feel like I belong in church anymore. How could anyone there ever understand what I am going through.... they all carry on about their business and not even realize the pain we are in.

B

McBecca, hon you are working yourself up instead of redirecting your feelings toward your H you are still too focused on the OM. OM's feelings DO NOT COUNT. Ok? What sort of man sleeps with another man's wife? Is he honorable? No. Does your H deserve another chance to be the H you need him to be? Yes, he does. Why is the OC the only child that counts here? Breaking up your M so OC and you can be a family with the OM, what does that do for your other two DD's? What does that teach them about committment, marriage or how to be an honorable person? It is very common for the BS to "get it" when they find out their S is having an A. It is his wake up call and he is answering my dear. Fake it til you do fall back in love with him. I can almost guarentee you will. I did. I fell madly in love with my H about 6 months after my A ended.

What will your girls think? Oh puleeze you are not going to tell them some drivel about you being in love with the OM? NOOOOO, you are going to show them what a repentent sinner looks like and how wonderful their dad was to forgive you and what marriage really is FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE TIL DEATH do you part.

You need to forget about the OM and your worries about his pain. Sweetie, he brought this on himself! What is best for his daughter is to be raised and loved in a secure environment. Not break up the home of all three of your children because you worry about the OM's feelings!

STOP, McBecca please stop

Do you not realize that every single person in that church is a sinner? Yep, only Jesus was perfect. We are human. Reach out to a sister. Get an accountability partner. In our church every week they tell our visitors "hope you didn't come here expecting to find perfect people cuz we are not. We are all recovering sinners". Yep that is right. WE ALL ARE.

McBecca... I haven't had time to read all the posts on this thread, but about two years ago, I was where you are now. I was fogged out big time, missing the OM, missing the friendship (based on total fantasy btw) and conversations, the whole nine yards.

One day there was a thread about an OM showing his true colors, and a poster with the handle Thos wrote this. It was one of the little nuggets of wisdom that helped me realize that the OM was not the great guy I thought he was. It helped clear the fog a bit and turn me around:


This hit home with me, made me realize that OMs take advantage of WW's vulnerabilities and weaknesses. Yeah, we WSs made a poor choice, but the OP was right there encouraging it. Not exactly what I would call a saint.

Think up some distractions to divert your mind when OM tries to creep in. Plan some special together time with your H. Do the stuff you did when you were falling in love for the first time. Rediscover one another. Make it so that OM becomes irrelevent to your life. Time, IC, MC all help. Hang in there.

GBH,

Thank you for this post and your insight and experience.

McBecca...

I just read through all of your posts here, and thought I'd throw in my .02...

I am in tears because I see so clearly just how very much that your husband loves you...I am AWED by that, and I want you to be also...You see, I am a FWW, that is just blown away by the ability of a BS to love in the face of such horrific betrayal...I want to convey to you that you will NEVER find the kind of love that your husband so obviously has for you again...SERIOUSLY...I want you to think about that...NEVER...Your husband is PRICELESS...Don't throw that away...If you do, I PROMISE you that it will be the WORST decision that you will EVER make...EVER...


How is it that you can't see how INCREDIBLE that your husband is to want to stay married to you and love you and the OC...Do you understand what kind of person that he is for wanting to do that? How forgiving...how honorable...how tender...how selfless...how committed...how LOVING...I have a hard time wrapping my mind around just what an incredible person that a BS is when they choose to stay in the marriage after an affair...I've said this many times on this forum and I am now going to say it again, because I believe it with every fiber of my being...A BS who does this is the very definition of AMAZING GRACE...It is nothing short of a miracle IMHO...It is the closest that a human can come to loving as Christ does...It brings me to my knees...

As far as knowing if you can put OM out of your mind and heart is concerned goes, well that is actually pretty easy...You most certainly CAN, the real question is, WILL you?


HUH??? Are you kidding me??? The "pain" of the OM??? Um, I'm gonna be blunt here...BIG FAT SO WHAT!!! Any pain OM is in is of his OWN doing...HE SIGNED UP FOR HIS PAIN WITH HIS EYES WIDE OPEN...I don't feel one bit sorry for him, and you shouldn't either...OM IS NOT A VICTIM, HE IS A VOLUNTEER!!! He CHOSE to have an AFFAIR with a MARRIED WOMAN!!! And he CHOSE to have unprotected sex with her...McBecca, you need to redirect your sympathy towards your husband...A man who is in UNFATHOMABLE pain due to no fault of his own, but rather because of the selfish choices of you and OM...

And this "everyone is happy" bit...WHAT??? How's that??? You would be DESTROYING the lives of all three of your DD's, your husband AND your very own self!!! Can you please describe for me the "happiness" in how all of this would play out??? I'm being serious, give me a bit of a sketch in words as to what this "happiness" looks like in your mind...Give me the logistics of it...Where would you live? With OM and OC? How about your other two DD's? Paint me a picture of the lives of each of the "shiny, happy people" involved so that I can see how your mind is [not]working here...

Look, I know that my words may come across as harsh, but I truly believe that is what you need to hear right now, as you are considering making MORE poor life choices...I don't want to see that happen, and so I hope that you understand that what I am saying to you is said with care, concern and even understanding...Hey, I've laid in the WW gutter, so I do get that part of it...



First I will start by saying that I don't think that OM should be involved in the life of OC at all...She doesn't belong to him, as you are NOT his wife...The OC is a child of your marriage...She belongs to the family of the marriage...OM was merely a sperm donor...

Here's what I see...OM has the integrity of a maggot...OM is completely irrelevant...I'll bet you are having trouble believing that, or perhaps even understanding it...I remember not getting that at all when I first came here...Stick to NC, and it will sink in and make crystal clear sense to you sooner than you may think...

Look around you McBecca...Who is there loving and supporting you and OC right now? YOUR HUSBAND!!!! NOT OM!!! Look at who is willing to fight for you and not just "walk away"...Your husband is the one that matters...He is the one with honor and integrity and so much more...You and your daughters are so very blessed to have such a fine man in your lives...What an extraordinary husband and daddy...McBecca, I pray that you will see him as the hero that he is...I am humbled by your husband's choices in all of this, and it's time that you were too...

Blessings,

Mrs. W

If you love the OM more than your family, then go be with him. You will find that the 'love' isn't real but by then you will have lost the real love you had (your family).

You seem to scorn your H's efforts at providing for his family. Maybe it may be better for him to find someone to love him and the chidlren along with appreciating his efforts. Can he be a better H? Sure he could but you think you are farther along the road to recovery than he is? By having the A you have put yourself far behind him.

As long as you are a WS, what makes you think you deserve your family?

The memory your children will have of you is their mother loves other men more than their own family. R U proud of that?

I certainly hope u r better than the picture you have painted.

L.

I heard that adorable sweetie JL was looking for me...

McBecca: you're dealing with withdrawal right now. It's named this way because it resembles a chemical addiction. It's a chemical response in your body to the chemicals that you were cranking out during the affair (think adreneline junkie). It takes time to get through this, and all those feelings you're having are natural. No contact is imparative!

Can you see if you and your husband can get into phone counseling with the Harley's? 888-639-1639 for appts. It's more convenient if your husband has a hectic schedule (all he needs is an hour where he can close his office door, or gab on a cell phone in private). Your letter and his response was a good start, but he needs to have a plan to put these pieces in place---and believe it or not---now is a good (effective) time for him to be filling your lovebank. Strongly consider it. Steve Harley was a huge contributor to our marriage recovery---he was my coach, and a very good one.

With regard to baby and legal stuff---you and husband need to use the POJA and good negotiation skills to arrive at the same plan. I'm all for the current plan (cut the OM off, let him legally challenge if he wants, contact only though lawyer or husband). If you can both enthusiastically agree to another plan (let OM move next door, run him over with steamroller), you may have other options. We have not heard from the OM since the pregnancy (breakup of the affair), and our little boy isn't so little anymore (7). He's cute too---and I think he's kinda OK even though he doesn't have any of my dNA.

What everyone has mentioned about the potential unsuitability of the OM as a long term option is very true. Affairs are fantasies based on secrecy---they feed an biochemical cycle that is similar to cocaine addiction. They're not good, nor are they successful in the long run for establishing good, long term marriages. Your marriage definitely needs help---but running isn't a particularly good option at this point. I'd recommend that you stay and fight for your marriage.

HI Mcbecca.

I read your story this morning and it touched me.

Listen to wise people here; listen to the people that where in your chose before, see
You are not the only one.

What puzzles me is how can’t you see the OM’s true colors?

And yet how can’t you see how much your H loves you and cares for you?

I’m going thru the same thing with my WW; she lasted one week of NC,
Now she is back in her fog.

And to tell you the truth if there was an OC in my case it would have been over,
I could not do what your H is doing, for god’s sake he is taking an affair child and accepting her as his own child, all he is asking you is to let him.

Is it too much to ask?
Is it too much to ask to stop contact with OM?

Sometimes I don’t understand how WS think or maybe don’t think.

Affairs are selfish you know this is how they are justified.

Give your husband a chance to love you, give yourself the chance to love him back,

I thought I was a great H; I am humbled by your H’s choice to stay with you and raise.
Your OC like his own, your H is a saint, and you don’t appreciate him.

And you will not let yourself love him if you are still in withdrawal and still have feelings for OM.

Keep on trying you know you are doing the right thing just keep on moving forward,

just my 2c
Good luck.

Tony.

McBecca...You out there? How 'bout an update?

Mrs. W

Well... I have to say, I was not shocked when he actually said those words to me. We had had another "heart to heart" and the next morning he said to me "I can't take it anymore, if you are going to dwell on OM and HIS feelings over OC then I want no part in this and you are free to do what you want".

I let the entire day go by and didn't mention anything anymore. Later that night (Friday) he wanted to talk. We talked and he even had figured out child support payments!! yes, he even agreed with me moving back to the state where OM is!!! I thought he had lost his mind. But once he started talking I could see, he felt I was giving him no other option.

We have spent the last two days talking, touching each other (non-sexual way) and actually finally talking honestly about our M, the A, the OM and the OC. It is HARD my gosh, this is so hard.... but I feel GREAT how sick is that? I feel like I am finally "connecting" with BH!! he did get angry a few times and let a few horrible comments out of his mouth but you know what, I needed tohear that. He never called it an AFFAIR but now he is finally calling it that. He never talked about the "sex" part but now he is!! and as painful as it is, I actually feel good that we ARE talking!!

We have not made a final decision, he wants us to pray. Today at church we held hands and as always God sent us a very clear message throuhg the service as today's service was about living by the word of GOd and not just "BEliving" the word of GOd. The pastor even talked about the time when the adultress (sp?) woman was brougth to him and what he said to her and how he treated her.

BH has been telling me in God's eyes, it would be Ok for him to D now because of my A. It was something he wanted me to think about because he wants me to realize I am FREE to make a choice now. He will no longer push me to work on the M, he is leaving the door open and for me to decide which way to go.

Not sure how but these last two days KNOWING that I am "free" to choose, has led me to see that I don't want to go anywhere.... I don't want OM raising my children, he is a child himself yet in so many ways and I KNOW this in my heart (he is 10 yrs younger than me, but tends to act very immature if he doesn't get his way). I stopped making excuses why I "should" be with OM and finally accepting the fact that a life with OM will never be EVEN if I were to D. There is too much baggage in that relationship. I will always care about OM because of our child but I love my other children too much to allow our home to be broken by someone who may or MAY NOT be there later on. I know BH will be here for me and all I have to do is ask. All I have to do is allow him to be there for me.

The fog is gone. I can feel nothing but sadness for the mistakes I've made, remorse for the hurt I've caused, and joy to know Jesus already paid the price for my sins. All I need to do is exactly what he aske "SIN NO MORE".

I know this is a long road, but I no longer have doubts. I want my M, I want my children to grow in a loving home, I want to give BH everything I have taken by allowing OM in our lives. How will all this happen? I do not know but God will help me. I know he will.

Thanks everyone for your posts... I have read them over and over again. I will continue to read them. I need to remind myself EVERY day of all the hurt I've caused but I also need to praise God for all the blessings he continues to pour on me. Finding this website is certainly one of them.

Hoping to be a FWW someday soon, Becca

McB,

I am glad you have come to the realizations that you have. You have always been "free", you just did not know it. You have always had a say in things, and you did not know it.

But, now that you realize these things, it is your job to act on them. Please read the posts here to you again, and see if you can talk with K. He is a special guy and I think he can give you insight that most of us cannot.

The main reason I am asking you to reread everything again, is that you need to frame new questions, new plans, so ask away once you have fully digested what is here.

God Bless,

JL