(re-posting from Just Found Out forum)

Hi,
I'm new here. I've been reading for about 2 weeks now, but this is my first post.
Quick update on us. Together 10yrs, married 4 this month. We have one daughter (1.5yrs) and are now expecting our 2nd.

H and I were separated Mar 8, 06 after a domestic dispute in which I ended up calling the police for help. Nothing physical happened, mostly it was yelling and him trying to intimidate me w/words. He scared me that night so I called 911 for help. BUT because I told them he took the phone from my hand when trying to call for help, the city slapped a NC order on us for over 1 month and wanted to send him to jail for that "interferring in an emergency call". I was shocked.

During this time we could not speak for fear of him going to jail.

We did discuss divorce several times as we just werent getting along and things were bad for a long time. We did see eachother once the NC was lifted, but things were akward to say the least.

Cut to June. Family obligations caused us to reunite and we ended up sleeping together several times that one weekend.
H said he wanted me back, wanted to come back, loved me, wanted more kids with me...but I was nervous. I said "not yet".

As it turns out, seems I was already practicing Plan A, even though I didnt even know it. I was strong, confident, not crying, trying to show him what he was missing whenever we did see eachother. Guess it worked.

Several weeks later, H calling most days, being nice, loving, etc, we decide to get back together. He moved home.


But, back to the story:
WH was home 1 week, when our cell phone bill came and I casually went thru it. I had NEVER done so before, but my gut must have told me to check...and its a good thing I did.
I found out about the A...which started back in May, so was a total of 3 months at that time.
They chatted and texted for HOURS..and HUNDREDS of texts during the day its amazing they could get any work done during that time.
I was devastated. I called the # on the bill and the woman on the other end said she knew my WH as a friend of her friends. Turned out to be true..the woman I spoke w/was the babysitter for OW.
I confronted WH about it. Denial all they way until after many hang ups, call backs, he finally said, yes, he knows her and we would discuss it later.

Long story short, WH SWORE he ended the A by that point, but I went thru phone records like a madwoman only to find that the week he moved back home, he called her and saw her most nights.
One night our daughter fell, and we took her to the the Emergency room... and he texted OW from there! Then spoke w/her as soon as we got home and I went to bed. I was SO ANGRY!

The Friday of the 1st week WH was home, he spent the night away from the house. At that point I wasnt clued into the OW, so I believed his story of drinking w/friends and staying out until 5am. Didnt want to be a naggy wife, so let him go have his fun.
Well, I'm sure you can figure out that he was w/ OW that night too.

WH still denied the PA. Said nothing happened. Hardly wants to talk about it at all, which is so hard for ME because I want to/need to know EVERYTHING! He is NOT being transparent. Everything I know, is because of my militant snooping!!

I found out her name, her address, phone numbers, even found a picture of her in his wallet. Needless to say, its true when they always AFFAIR DOWN. OW is a single mom, 3 kids, living in ratty apartment.
He definitely did A down, which somehow makes me feel better. ??

The phone calls have definitely stopped, well, for the most part.
He is home most nights by 8pm or 9pm on the nights he works late, which I know he does b/c I call him at his office to check up. Have even driven by a few times and yes, his car is in the parking lot.

But, WH has a history of lying to me. So my question is, how do I know its REALLY over and that the contact has stopped at least on HIS part?

FWIW, I saw some texts back and forth again last Thursday and I confronted him. He denied so I called the number and told her I was a friend of OW and thought she had called but I didnt recognize the #.
Th *nice lady* (an unsuspecting friend of OW) told me OW used her cell phone the night before.
CAUGHT!!

OW thought she could fool me by using another #.
And then the other night, she texted him again at 1230AM!
I was LIVID.
WH deleted the message and said he would not respond.

But, how do I know he isnt calling her from his work phone?
He wouldnt be dumb enough to still use his cell, knowing I check it daily, hourly even.

To make it worse, I just found out I am pregnant w/ our 2nd child. I am happy about it, but scared that THIS wont even wake him up. HE is happy too, he says. Says he IS commited to me and our family. He SAYS he wants this, loves me etc.
But, I can tell he going thru the depressed phase...although he does seem better this week.

Now, another problem looms. D and I are scheduled to go out of town, w/out WH, on Saturday for one week, to visit my sister. My whole family is going, had it planned for 6 months.

If I am to follow Plan A, I cant go, right? Should I cancel the trip and feign sickness?
My mother will never understand. I am no good at lying but not ready at all, at all, to expose the A to them, and or tell them I am expecting #2 also.
The reunion between WH and I is so new, and then I found out about OW, that its caught me all off guard.

I love my WH...and he says he loves me...but how do I know for sure NC w/ OW is happening? I feel that I cant trust my WH...and I know I should't at this point either.

Oh, I also should mention that I did once call OW and told her he was BACK HOME w/ME.
SHE is the one who confessed to everything during that call. Most things I know about the A, SHE told me.
WH has hardly told me anything...but lies.

She even told me "I had no idea...I dont need this in my life...You have nothing to worry about..I'll get out" Dont worry about me anymore" etc.

But, obviously she isnt gone, especially if she is texting him again at midnight, just two days ago?

How can I get him to have NC w/ her? He SAYS he isnt, but I cant believe it especially when I see evidence otherwise.

Any help would be appreciaed. I am sorry if I am all over the place..but my mind is racing a 1000x and my anxiety is getting the better of me.

I am so sorry you have to be here.

I would not go on the trip. I had to cancel a very important trip that I had scheduled a couple of weeks after d-day myself.

It was one of the best things I did.

Does your husband work with the other woman?

Thank you moveforward.

I still have not decided if I should cancel the trip or not. I'm almost sure I wont go, but its so difficult to make that decision. My family will NEVER understand and how can I lie to them about this?

I want to appear strong to WH, plan A him like crazy...but the thought of letting him be alone, with the temptation to contact her is very frigtening to me.
I feel so confused about this.

And to answer your question, No. WH does not work with OW anymore. Before the A began, they did work together briefly (about 2 months).
They do however, work in the same industry, so the circle of friends is most likely the same.

I'm a mess this week, which I am sure has a lot to do with the stress of my upcoming "vacation". Sure wont feel much like a vacation but the alternative..staying here..worrying, possibly following him, checking phone records, is also too much for me to handle.

Agh. This is so awful. I feel so nervous today and yesterday was the pits too. I even drove by his work, the whole time, wondering, what is wrong with me?? How can I even stand for this? What am I doing here?

I saw him leave work around 5p...he went for a drink w/ a buddy. I did call him to check, and he didnt lie..said exactly where he was which made me feel better...but still..he was out...and I didnt go into the bar, so obviously I dont *really* know who he was with. He came home around 8pm.

All I am holding onto right now, is that he DID pull away from OW before he moved home last month.

When I called her, she mentioned this and so at least it feels good knowing he was ending things w/her, even before I found out about it.
Bad timing on his part I guess, that I found out just after we decided to reconcile.

OW told me very honestly that he did start pulling away (looking at the timing, it was exactly the week that he moved back home). WH told OW that he had "things on his mind, work stress, legal issues that he needed to take care of". So, while he didnt say "I AM GOING BACK TO MY WIFE", at least he did begin to end the A that time.

The hardest thing is knowing that he hasnt done 100% NC yet..and I dont know how to make that happen.
I'm fearful that he has been calling her from his work phone, or perhaps using someone else's cell to call her so his records wont be tracked. He knows I am checking the records....so he wont be stupid again.

But, OW *IS* still texting, and calling, and even though I'm postitive its only been a few times, (maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 2 weeks) which hopefully will help end the A, even ONE text, or one call is too much for me to handle.


I guess I'm having a hard time with talking w/WH about all this.
How do you Plan A things, but still bring this up? How do you demand or get them to agree to NC, and stick to it.

I wont get all crying or needy, but I'm still not sure how to approach this subject again, w/o him getting bothered that I'm bringing this up again. ??

IF he gets upset that I bring it up, is that a sign that he is still in contact and seeing OW? He wants to "move forward", and I know thats not dealing with the issue. But, isnt that part of Plan A?

Dont we have to get into Recovery before we can really hash this stuff out?

I am tempted to get a GPS and/or tape recorder for his car. But I'm afraid actually. I'm afraid of what I might find, which sounds silly I know. Because I definitely dont want to be blindsided, I'd much rather know now...if they are still in contact or still trying to carry on the A.

I guess its never a guarantee huh? I mean, so what if he comes home everynight, and doesnt call or text her from his cell. He could STILL see her during the day or use another phone if he wanted to right?
I just dont know how to get rid of this insecure feeling that I have.

Luckily, I've been able to hide that from him for the most part but then reading this board has me suspicious all over again. This week he seems better...and it has me worried that its becuase he is out of the withdrawl stage due to her calling/texting him last week.
That perhaps he seems better now, due to him getting his "Fix" again by either speaking with her or perhaps by thinking he will get to see her, w/o me to worry about, next week.

Guess I just answered my own question about whether or not I should leave town, eh? haha

I would go ahead and get a GSP for his car. That is one way to know for sure.

Thank you. I will look into GPS this weekend.


Exposure ?
I have already exposed to his parents which I did before finding MB and Plan A. Guess it was instinctual and I needed someone to tell.
IL's are behind ME 100%. They are wonderful.
At the time, I asked them not to tell WH that they knew.

They will be up to visit us in a few weeks...should they expose to their son then, that they know about A?
Obviously, I wont tell him they know....but I assume THEY should, right?

And, I'm also concerned about exposing to some of his friends & co-workers.
The problem is that I dont really know them.

Should I still try to expose to his co-workers and his other wayward friends, even though WH says the A is over?

My thinking is that they probably *already* know about OW...since some used to work w/her also.

Ah. I feel caught mid stage since I cant really prove the A is ongoing..but I cant prove otherwise either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

They should be free to talk to him and discourage the affair.

I copied something that explains why he needs to agree to no contact. See below -

The vast majority of couples I counsel who have been through the horror of an affair, have better marriages after the affair than before. It's because the affair jolts them into recognizing the need for building an affair-proof marriage, and the safety precautions they use help them create compatibility and love. But has the offended spouse forgiven the offender in these marriages? Yes and no.

First let's try to understand what forgiveness is. One illustration is telling a person who owes you $10,000 that he won't have to pay you back. You "forgive" the debt. In other words, forgiveness is eliminating a obligation of some sort.

But we generally don't think of money when we think of the need of forgiveness. Instead, we are concerned about inconsiderate behavior that has caused us great pain and suffering -- the pain that an affair causes, for example. Forgiveness in these situations means thinking about the person as if the offense never took place. That is extremely difficult to do. The offended spouse usually thinks, what can he or she do to make it up to me. How can I be compensated for the pain I've suffered.

To make matters worse, whenever a wayward spouse sees me for counseling there is rarely regret and rarely a willingness to compensate the offended spouse. They usually ask to be forgiven, but that doesn't mean he or she is deeply remorseful. It usually means that he or she doesn't want us to bring up the subject anymore, or require a change in behavior. In other words, the wayward spouse wants the pain suffered by the offended spouse to be ignored or forgotten. Like a $10,000 debt, they want it forgiven, and then they want to borrow another $10,000.

I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated.

In most cases, an offended spouse would be stupid to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money.

As it turns out, in every affair there is a way to adequately compensate the offended spouse that is good for the offender and good for the marriage. At first, the offended spouse may not want to be compensated. He or she may try to get as far away from the offender as possible to avoid further pain. But if the spouse asks for forgiveness along with a willingness to compensate, the offended spouse is usually willing to entertain the proposal.

So let's talk about just compensation. What could the offending spouse possibly do to compensate for an affair? After all, it's probably the most painful experiences anyone could ever put his or her spouse through.

The first act of compensation to you from your husband should be to end his relationship with the other woman once and for all. He should never see or talk to her again, even if it means leaving his job or moving your family to another state. The reason should be obvious, but in case there's some confusion, he should be reminded that every contact he will ever have with this woman will be like a knife in your heart. He has already caused you to suffer unbearable pain, and any further contact with his ex-lover would keep you suffering. In your case, the affair is probably over, but has your husband taken precautions to never see or talk to his ex-lover again?

And then he should put extraordinary precautions in place to guarantee that another affair will not take it's place. Has he considered the circumstances that led to his affair? Intoxication, business trips that separate you overnight, close friendships with those of the opposite sex, recreational relationships that do not include you, and so forth, should be subject to scrutiny. What was it that made him vulnerable? Whatever it was, he should take extraordinary precautions to avoid it in the future. It's part of just compensation for the suffering he's caused you to bear.

While there's no excuse for an affair, and if your husband takes the extraordinary precautions I've suggested he will never have another affair again, there are "reasons" that people have affairs. And those reasons must also be addressed when considering just compensation.

I've made the point in His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage that spouses usually have affairs because their emotional needs are not being met in the marriage. The way to affair-proof a marriage is for couples to meet each other's most important emotional needs. So whenever one spouse has an affair, the other should try to learn to meet the unmet needs that led to the affair.

That's a tough sell to someone who has just learned about their spouse's unfaithfulness. I'd sooner kill him than meet his needs, is the most common reaction. Besides, we haven't talked about compensation at all. Instead, we've gone and blamed the offended spouse for the affair!

But in most cases, neither spouse is meeting the other's needs prior to the affair. The reason that there were not two affairs is often a lack of opportunity for the offended spouse. And sometimes when there is that opportunity, there actually are two affairs.

The point I'm making is that in most cases both the offending and offended spouses' emotional needs were not being met by each other prior to the affair. One compensation for the affair, therefore, is for the offending spouse to learn to meet the emotional needs of the offended spouse. But if I can also motivate the offended spouse to do something that should have been done all along, meet the offending spouse's emotional needs, the arrangement seems more fair to the offending spouse. There is not only compensation for the affair, but the one of the conditions that may have created the affair (unmet emotional needs) are removed. The marriage is restored and affair-proofed.

But forgiveness is still necessary even after compensation is made. That's because there's really nothing that can completely compensate for the betrayal of infidelity. Even after compensation is made, there is still the need to forgive. But it's sure makes a lot more sense after the unfaithful spouse makes an effort to restore the relationship.

Using this meaning of forgiveness, the person asking to be forgiven must first demonstrate an awareness of how inconsiderate the act was and how much pain his or her spouse was made to suffer. Second, he or she must express some plan to assure the forgiver that steps have been taken to avoid the painful act in the future. Extraordinary precautions to never see or talk to the former lover, and to avoid circumstances that might ignight an new affair should be part of the plan for recovery. And another part of the plan is for both spouses to meet each other's unmet emotional needs that may have given the unfaithful spouse a "reason" to be unfaithful. As it turns out, it's the successful completion of that plan that's the compensation that leads to "forgiveness." Learning to meet each other's most important emotional needs is the plan that usually does the trick.

But, unlike the repayment of $10,000, where payee suffers a $10,000 loss in order to provide compensation, in marriage, the compensation does not lead to a loss. Your husband should guarantee that he will never have another affair, and learn how to meet your important emotional needs, as you should learn to meet his. I'd say that's just compensation, wouldn't you? And yet, the price your husband pays will make him a much better and a much happier person.

There's another important point that I should make regarding forgiveness. When you discovered your husband's affair, you learned two things about him that you had not known before. You learned that he would make decisions that did not take your feelings into account (having the affair), and you learned that he would lie about his behavior to cover it up. In other words, you learned that he was not following the Policy of Joint Agreement or the Policy of Radical Honesty. That discovery was undoubtedly very disillusioning to you. Who wants to be married to a man who is inconsiderate and dishonest?

Now you are trying to create a new understanding with your husband, where he will agree to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty. Good for you! Apparently, he has not yet agreed to these important issues, and that has a great deal to do with your reluctance to forgive him. I'm sure you will not find forgiveness in your heart until he agrees to be honest with you, and to take your feelings into account in the future.

But forgiveness will be much easier after you are convinced that your husband considers your feelings whenever he makes a decision (follows the Policy of Joint Agreement), is completely honest with you about everything (follows the Policy of Radical Honesty), and is meeting your important emotional needs. For you to be convinced, he must not only agree to these changes, but he must also demonstrate his commitment by living them for a while. Forgiveness may still require a bit of generosity on your part, but if he makes these changes, I think you'll be able to handle it. When that happens, the burden of resentment you are carrying will be lifted, and the love you have for each other will be restored.

thank you Believer.
I have read that several times, but it is always a good reminder.

I decided not to go out of town as planned. I had to bite the bullet and just tell my family it wasnt going to happen. They were disappointed but understood.
So far, I'm very happy w/my decision to stay in town.

Last night was a good night for me and WH. He was very affectionate and open to talking and we even spoke about the recent text msgs from OW. He admitted that *she* indeed has been texting but allowed me to look thru his phone and swore that he had not replied. He says his last reply to her was about a week ago and was only to tell her to stop. He has not spoken to or replied to her texts since.
I can only hope this is true, and will continue to monitor the phone bills until I'm certain on NC.

And I'm getting to the point now, where I'll bring up a NC letter. I think that will really help, I just dont know how to approach that subject. I'm sure I'll figure it out soon.

Oh and another positive I had last night was a vm on WH's cell phone. WH fell asleep so I grabbed his cell and listened to the msgs. There were many msgs and I felt sure I would hear OW's voice soon. But no...all of them were friends or work clients of his.

One in particular, not sure who as I didnt recognize the voice-- said, "how are you man? Whats going on...you are probably at home with your wife and child. I really hope things work out for you. well, gimme a call soon buddy".

This vm made me feel SO good. I wish I knew who it was, but then does it matter? The fact that his friends know we are trying to reconcile and that at least ONE of them is supportive, is great for me to hear and know!

Sometimes I worry about his friends b/c most are younger, single or divorced...and they dont get or care, what its like and how he needs to be responsible because he is a married man w/ kids.

Anyhow.thats the update. I hope this continues and that WH keeps feeding me the compensation that I deserve and that he is giving me now.

Oh, and I have to reiterate how important following Plan A's do's and dont's are.

Prior to last week, I was continually saying "I love you" . He would sometimes reply with a short "luv u too"...or not reply to me at all, which hurt.

Then I read the DONTS and stopped saying it all the time..well, stopped saying it completely for several days.

Well, Friday we were talking on the phone and he had to call me back. I missed his return call, so he left me a vm which he ended w/an "I love you...very much".

I called him back before listening to the msg..and he said "I left you a vm" I asked what did it say? He said..."...I love you".
I replied with, "oh how sweet of you. I love you too".

This might be small, but I consider it a huge victory to have a WH go from only replying to my I love yous, to actually bringing this back all on his own.

How are you doing emotionally? Are you able to eat properly and sleep? It's really important to take good care of yourself.

They usually come back to the marriage and feel AWFUL. But that takes some time. Hopefully he will maintain NC. I would ask him about writing one.

Sounds like things are turning around. It was good for you to stay home and be with your husband. And yes, it was good to tell his parents. For when they come to visit, there will be no secrets...GOOD!

The one thing that the wayward spouse doesn't want is a needy person. For you to discontinue the 'I Love You' was great. He did hear you, and didn't know how to respond. For he heard it so many times and now he is responding because he wants to.

You need to take care of yourself during this time and your pregnancy.

How am I doing emotionally?
Honestly, I really dont know.

I seem to be doing well. I try not to focus on the A all the time. I am doing a lot of soul searching, rehashing my M over the past 4 years, and seeing and learning from where I went wrong.
Trying to give EN to WH, since I was not giving them to him for a long time-- which I can say w/ 100% certainty fully contributed to his A.

I havent cried about this since D-day on 8Aug. Not quite sure what to make of my non-emotion, other than its probably a self-preserving tactic. I have to be strong for my D, and pg. Life goes on, being a mommy doesnt stop, right?

Sometimes I think I'm the type who is strong, until one day it hits me like a ton of bricks and I fall apart. I think I'm scared for that day, if it comes.
And I'm frightened beyond words that I'll discover info that the A continues.
Right now, I have no proof which is encouraging, but its never a guarantee. That is the hardest part...the limbo of hoping its over and not ever really knowing for sure.

WH continues his transparency.

He was home all weekend with us, which might not seem like a big deal to some, but over the past year (since D was born) he would go out w/friends a lot, go out on Saturdays-see friends etc), and leave me home alone, that I guess his being home, all weekend, feels good. At least I KNOW he wasnt w/OW, couldnt be, b/c he was home w/us.

We talked about his job last night. As I mentioned before, they worked together for about 2mo back in late spring.
I asked how come he left that office. He said more $ working at another and he then said other guys from that office wanted to move there now too. I asked if SHE wanted to move, what would happen?
He said boss wud ask his thoughts and he would say "I dont like that idea". I said that was good b/c I couldnt handle and was NOT a good thing to work w/OW. I finally told him about MB site and that he HAS to maintain NC if we are to move forward past this.

Seems small, but WH and I have not talked like this, openly and freely, for a LONG time. We love eachother to death, but our M was lacking communication, and intimacy both E and P, since just before our D was born.

I love that we seem to be able to talk more now, and seem to be doing well. Even our mutual friends have commented that we "are glowing" when together.

FWIW, our friends know we were separated for 5 months, but they do not know about his A.
I feel no need to share, since H came back first, and THEN I discovered the A.
And for some reason, knowing the A started only when we were apart, and ended when we came back together, is also helping me cope. Its enabled me to see what and where I went wrong. How WH has EN I need and want to meet.

So, things seem better. I say seem, well, because, can you ever know for sure? Its a rough time right now. I am doing okay, but its the HARDEST thing I have ever had to deal with. I feel like my "fairy tale" love has ended. I NEVER thought WH would cheat. Since day one of our R, he said he would never. I told him I wud not stay if it did happen. But, that was 10yrs ago.
We have a history, a home, a child and now another on the way. Our situation is different now then when we first met.

I sometimes cant believe I am still here. What kind of a woman puts up w/ all I have over the past 5yrs, and now an A, and STILL stays?

But...I love him. Our D deserves her parents to be together. We do love eachother, I know we do. We wouldnt still be here, back together after all the hurt and pain, if we didnt.

I love him...but this new sense of insecurity is at times overwhelming. It makes me sad to wonder if I will always feel this way? I just want that security blanket of knowing "he loves me and would never hurt me", back.

But, its gone and I know it wont return. I will probably always be jaded. Hopefully we can repair the damage done and more forward to a happier, healthier M.

I think you are going to have to take this slowly. I'm concerned about your husband lying to you BEFORE the affair. Also he spends too much time with friends.

The Harleys suggest spending 15 hours a week doing fun things together WITHOUT the kids.

Also, what else has happened in the last 6 years. Have you always been the one putting more effort into the marriage?
What kind of father is he?

haha. Slow is a word I am not on good terms w/. ;p

I've always been one to want something NOW and/or right away, so patiently taking things slowly is not easy. But, I dont really have a choice and is the only and best thing I can do right now.

ITA. We definitely need to spend much more time together.

In late '04, we bought a house, had a baby, and he changed jobs to one based 100% on commission. To say money was tight, is a huge understatement. Talk about a year of change and stress!
Neither of us were meeting the EN of our M. We were just trying to survive!

WH turned to his friends and I turned my attention to our D, 100%. Looking back, I made such a mistake, but cud not see it. We HARDLY spent ANY time together, let alone w/out our D.
MY immediate family is very demanding too, and I also mistakenly put more effort into that, than into my own M.

I am not trying to make excuses, or make it seem like my fault. I am just now aware of the mistakes I made and wanted to give an idea of WHY WH spent so much time w/friends. I was not a happy person, most of the time, to come home to. I see that now. Why would he have wanted to spend time at home? And with me? Always mad about something or another.

Anyhow. I myself have come out of the fog. Yes, I have put a lot of effort into the M, but it wouldnt be fair, nor truthful to say I did more than he did..and vice versa.

Oh, and he is a fantastic father. He really loves and cherishes our D. I'm certain that she was a huge motivator in his decision to return home.

OW is still texting.

I grabbed his cell today and went thru the call log. OW texted him last night again, twice.

WH had deleted her texts, but I found via the msg history. Plus, I would have seen them today anyhow b/c I check the bill online everyday.

I asked WH about it and he did *not* deny it.

I asked what she wanted and he said just "how are you" type stuff, but I dont believe that. He said I DONT REPLY to her....and as far as I can tell, he doesnt

Of course, he could be using someone else's cell or call her from his office, which I cant check.

I told him "she HAS to be gone, 100%, no, 200%, if we are to move forward w/our M as planned".
He said I agree...300% even.

We were very calm when discussing it. I was very matter of fact about it which was difficult, but made me feel good knowing I can do it.

I finally told him about writing a NC letter and he said, he was willing to do it.

I even joked that I would HAND DELIVER it to her if needed. He chuckled and said, thats fine. I was actually surprised at his demeanor about the NC letter. I guess I half expected him to laugh it off, or say it was dumb. But, instead he said he was willing to send one.

I sat at the table and told him again, that I am working on this for the sake of our family. That I love him and am willing to move past this with him, but we cant do it with 3 people in the relationship. He agreed.

I then said I just want you to know that you DONT have to be here. You can make the decision to be w/OW if that is what you want. You dont need to lie to me, or hide things from me or see her behind my back if that is what you are doing.
You are free to go. I only want you here because you WANT to be here and b/c you love me and DD.

He looked at me and said he knows that and that he wants to be here...which is why he IS here.
And, I believe him. WH is and has always been the kind of man who only does something if HE wants to. I used to think it was selfish, but I see that its actually a freeing way to live.
Unlike me, he doenst live his life on guilt, or do something b/c he *has to* or *should*.
So, for this reason, I do believe that he is here, because of his own decision and b/c he wants our M to work.

He kissed me a nice kiss and said ILY before he left for work. I feel good about our conversation, but there is still that pit in my stomach that I cant get rid of.

Part of me wants to text OW and tell her off! But, I think she would only get a rise out of it.

Oh, and I mentioned to WH that I find it interesting that she is still texting him when she KNOWS I will find out about it. Some nerve of her I said....its almost like she WANTS me to find out.
He made a face and said, yeah, I think thats why she is doing it.

I secretly am hoping that this will spark something, if it hasnt already, into WH's mind to see what kind of woman she is. Needy, desperate much??

I am hoping OW turns into the exact woman that I *AM NOT* being. Its kind of funny, but then again, I just hope that WH is telling ME the truth and that I dont turn out to be the fool here.

He has been home everynight, right after work, or shortly thereafter for the past 2 weeks. He has allowed me to ask questions, is being transparent, lets me talk about my feelings, needs etc.

I DO feel that he is being O&H w/me, but, I still question everything.

AND, it bothers me that he DELETES her texts. Makes me wonder WHAT she is saying. I think its time for me to ask him to TELL ME each and every time she makes contact. AND I need to READ her texts when she does send them.

What do you think? Thats a reasonable way to handle it right?

I guess its difficult knowing what to do. Can we be in recovery, if OW is still trying to make contact? So far, my only evidence is that SHE is contacting him, not the other way around.

Have you asked him to write a no contact letter?

I'd suggest changing the cell phone number altogether as soon as the NC letter is sent. In the meantime, yes, I would insist on reading the texts and being told when she texts him, continuing to text him when she knows you will find out is rubbing the disrespect in your face and I personally wouldn't let her get away with it. Contacting her other than the NC letter isn't a good idea, but I'd make sure that was done asap along with changing the phone number. I know with our phones, you can block numbers that you don't want to receive texts from also, might want to check into that...

thank you. We will work on the NC letter tonight, when WH gets home from work and send it off tomorrow.

I'll look into blocking her #. I thought of changing his cell #, but I doubt he would go for it. A lot of his business is conducted via his cell, so it would a major PITA to do it. I like the blocking her # much more. Although, if he is willing to do anything..then I guess changing his # would fall w/in that arena, right?

Well, its official.
The A continues.

Actually, its not "official", but I may as well assume so.

WH has been back and we've been "Working" on our marriage since Aug.
OW continued to call in Aug and then several times in Sept. I kept a close eye on WH, and his call logs, and found no evidence that he replied to her texts or calls or that he was with her.
However, now I am not sure. And well, you just cant ever be 100% certain.

I've started keeping a journal of all WH's activities.
What time he comes home, where he "Says" he goes after work, who calls him and what time, etc.

Well, so far, I've come up with nothing, but now I feel that I'm only fooling myself and that WH has gone deep undercover with contacting or seeing OW.

A few weeks ago, I saw a text from the same area code as OW's cell/home #'s. (the tip off here is that most of our friends's # --edited to take out the specific area codes )are xyz..and hers is nmop due to the city she lives in. So, her # is a definite trigger for me)

I wrote the number down, and tried to find out who it was. WH had deleted the text, but again, I wrote the number down and kept it in my journal.

I decided not to call, but at the time, just keep an eye on that number to see if it came up again.
That was back on 10/2.

And the same number re-appeared last night!!

So, I called it, and sure enough, it was OW's voice on the message. Seems that OW has changed HER cell # and is again contacting my H.

I hung up from that call and immediately called WH.

I totally erred here and did all kinds of LB's, but dangit, I'm just so tired and out of energy to be Plan A'ing all the time.
When is it MY turn to get some EN's met??

He of course denied, denied, denied and then when I said to stop lying, he said "I DIDNT REPLY, did I"? Then he turned it around on me, that I'm doing this to myself, and to us..and that he's not sleeping w/her..not talking to her, not seeing her so drop it.
Finally, he was so angry and yelling and telling me that I have "Ruined his morning", that he hung up on me.

So, I'm left feeling like I blew it due to the LB's...and yet, I'm so angry that he would continue to lie and turn this around on me.

But then again, IF he were not seeing her, or talking to her, or IF he were "clean" so to speak, he would be CALM about it and/or not lie. Say something like, "yes, she did call me and I deleted her message. I dont know why she is calling. I have tried to get her to stop."

Wouldnt you think he would be AGREEING with me? Rather than LIE about "I dont know WHO's number that is"..then turn around and say "I DIDNT REPLY to her"...and yell and get angry..and hang up.
I would think so anyways.

Oh, and WH has a new work schedule that he works 12-9p M-F and Fridays its a normal 9-5p.
Well, he started resuming his "coming home late" again about 2 weeks ago (hmm..conincidently enough about the same time as the OW's text). He has been out consisently until 10-11p almost every night, and there were a few nights last week where he came home at close to 1AM!

I had called him many times one night and he never replied to my calls. But, when I texted him (it was 1130pm) he replied to my text right away, saying he "left his cell in the car, but have it now. I'm on my way home. Do you need anything? I love you. See you soon".

I didnt believe it then, and dont believe it now. But, what could I do. I couldnt prove otherwise. He says he was out with the guys from work...which he seems to be doing a lot again lately.

I guess I am the stupid one to keep putting up with this. I must give him too much credit.

Thinking, well, he needs his friend/guy time (always has), and if he gets off work at 9pm, and then comes home at 11pm or earlier, he couldnt have been with her, because she lives an hour from our house, and that wouldnt be enough time. She has kids to go home to...so couldnt be out with him that late...etc.
I dunno. I think I'm just trying to rationalize his unacceptable behavior.

I have myself all screwed up here.

Oh and another thing. Yeah, we SF alot in the beginning when he came home in Aug. Probably at the wrong time, considering I had no idea of the OW, and then when I did, my "he's mine" attitude came over me and I came on to him all the time. So, for the 1st month, the SF was great and frequent.

Well, now its nonexistent.

I dont know if its because I'm pregnant or not. I'm only 3 months along and not showing, but it seems WH wont touch me with a ten foot poll. Again, I rationalized it, saying that he did this same thing when I was pg with our Daughter.

But, now, I think he was probably having an A back then too..because what man goes w/o SF an ENTIRE pregnancy AND even months afterwards too?? I am almost sure he was A'ing back then too...but with a different person. He had not met THIS OW until May 06.

So, I'm coming to terms that this OW, is probably not his first, or only.

I did get myself completely checked for STDs, and thankfully I'm clear and free. I will go back in 6 mos for another HIV test just to make sure, because well, you just never know. I HAVE to protect my unborn child AND my 2 yr old daughter.

And last week, I noticed a change in his demeanor w/me. He isnt loving, isnt affectionate, and I told him my feelings on this...all while remembering the whole "Fog" idea and being in withdrawl etc, which I thought he had come out from.
When I asked about this, he says he "doenst know what I want him to say" and then only replied with "I love you".

His lack of resonse, communication, is so irritating!!



So when I aske him why we dont SF anymore(its been over a month now), or WHY he isnt loving, affectionate etc, he changes the subject, or turns his back..the other night he even said "What are you talking about? And then he started WHISTLING a song!
I was floored. Talk about avoiding the question and HOW disrepectful is that?? Also made me very sad and then I began wondering, I'm sure like most of you are already thinking, that HE IS getting his SF...just not from me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


I guess I am just at a crossroads. Definitely no SF now...especially since I've leared OW is still tring to make contact. I just cant take the chance.
And I'm FREAKING out that she either IS, or WILL become pregnant. She HAS three kids already..whats to stop her from having a 4th?
I mentioned this to WH..and again was met with...no reply.


So, my questions are:
What do I do from here?
Where do I go?
What do I say to him about this?
How do I approach this w/out LB. I'm so mad and so hurt and our history is that we have terrible communication..especially when its about something important.
Moreover, I already know that NO MATTER WHAT WH says, I'm not going to believe him.


I *knew* it was too good to be true...to think that OW stopped calling...stopped trying to get him back, etc.

I am just so angry, sad, confused and hurt. I feel like calling OW and telling her off....and/or getting info from her.

WH gives me NOOOOOOOOO information....or he lies.

Oh, and I read a post here about the "Passive Agressive Man" posted by someone. And oh my gosh.
While reading that site, tons of bells were going off in my head an I was amazed. WH is the CLASSIC PA man.

So, in case you are wondering...IF I decide to keep WH around...here are the demands I am going to make.
TODAY.

1. call her w/ me on the line and ask her WHY she is calling/texting, and
tell her to STOP. NOW.
(do you think this is a good idea? I really honestly feel like SHE will tell me what I'm not hearing from WH. He lies..and while she could too...I feel like SHE would tell me IF WH was still contacting HER too!. Right now, he denies that).
2. no contact letter sent TODAY!
3. Show me the texts. I ASKED you to, you said you would. You have not done so.
4. No going out after work. Come straight home.
5. Stop lying. How can I ever learn to trust you again, when you keep violating my trust?
6. Marriage counseling a must. If not, thats a deal breaker.
7. change your cell phone #. NOW.

(although, I dont see how changing his # will help...when she calls him...he will only tell me that it must have been one of their "mutual friends" who gave it to her. I know this is how he will turn it around.
What do you all think?


I'm just so disillusioned with people right now.
Cant believe my H would continue to hurt me, our DD, and unborn child. Cant belive another woman/mother, would hurt another woman's children..and potentially her own kids, when their R doenst work out in the future. Which, I'm pretty positive that even IF H and I dont work out...that theirs wont either.


I am just so PO'd right now..and I know its only been 3 months since 1st D-Day....which is actually longer than their entire A, but here we are and I still feel like we are back at the beginning.

Any help would be appreciated. Thx.

So, WH just called me again, and of course, he is all mad, AT ME, for causing this.

He says he doesnt care that I take it upon myself to be a detective. Says he HASNT SPOKEN to that woman in months.
Says he doesnt reply to her texts. Doesnt know why she is texting him in the first place.

Said "you can continue to think whatever you want to, but I know the truth".

Says I am the one trying to add up the info...so its ME who is creating the drama.

I asked him to call her 3way right now..he said no. YOU call and ask her he said.
Yeah, like I'd fall for that..I'm sure he already called and told her I found her #.
I told him this and he said.."see, there you go again..making things up in your mind".

To which I replied..yes, thats true. Because when I cant get the truth or information from YOU...my mind DOES and WILL go wild imagining all the possibilities.

But then again, I have NO TRUST in him, so it is true that no matter WHAT he tells me, I wont believe him.
And THAT makes this even worse.

Anyhow....I'm just so overwhelmed right now.
He wants to continue to act like its no big deal...and I am bringing this up all on my own.

He did say he would get rid of his phone, or at the very least CHANGE his number. He agreed to that.
So, I will make him do that.

But then again, that still doesnt stop them from continuing their deep underground A, if thats whats going on.
It just means she will be more careful.

Obviously, she has in the past called him from DIFFERENT numbers, changed her OWN number, and texted him when she KNOWS I check.

But, I havent said anything about the cell phones for at least a month. So perhaps they thought I was "over it" and had stopped checking.

I wish I could afford a GPS...I see this as my next move. Unfortunately, finances are way too tight to be spending that kind of money right now. But I sure would if I could.

NO NO NO

No Contact means No Contact.

Nobody should be calling the OW - not you and not WH.


YES YES YES


Yes to all of these - but don't be surprised when he refuses. He's gotten away with this for a very long time and he thinks he knows exactly how to handle having both a wife and a girlfriend.

If you have not already, please look at the links in my sig line and see if they sound familiar to you.

Sorry you have to be here.
Mulan

Mulan,
Thank you. And YES, it was YOUR Boomerang link that I read from another post.

I was FLOORED when I read it.

That is my WH to a T.
100%. Perfect PA Man.

I had NEVER in my whole 10yrs with my WH, read anything that resembled him and his personality SO perfectly and SO Exactly, until reading that just the other day.

So, again, thank you for posting so others can read and so I could eventually find this out too.


I even spoke w/his mom yesterday and shared that site w/her. I read her some of the "commonalities" of a PA man, and she too said it was WH's personality. EXACTLY.

I need to read more about this type of person, and how to deal with it.
I didnt see the 2nd link, so I'll be going there now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seems to me, since I know this now, its sorta up to me as to IF I stay with a person like this, then I need to be prepared to deal with it.
Can no longer be a victim when I know its how he is.

Thank you again for responding.

I am going to make his write the NC letter tonight and I'll send it personally myself in tomorrow's mail.

And yes, I'm very much prepared for the backlash from WH about my "demands".
I know he will object to MC, and will definitely object to not going out w/friends after work.
Well, he MAY not reject it outright, but when he PASSIVLY doesnt respond and then AGRESSIVELY goes out anyhow, when he knows I'll be disappointed, THAT is the rejection itself.

Again, thank you. You have wonderful advice that I've read on other threads.