Exposure is good, but still, I think, much less likely to affect romantic affairs.

I keep thinking about the 'Sue and Jon' case study in SAA. This affair just ran its course - Jon didn't expose it, he didn't make any of that 'unpleasant noise' that Pittman talks about. He just waited it out.

If affairs are an addiction, then romantic affairs are the class-A heroin/crack variety. Would a crack addict care if everyone knew about his addiction, as long as he could still have a regular supply of the drug?

Alph.

Alph,

Plan A/B is a very sensible approach to a difficult problem. But with Plan A/B there is an underlying assumption that something is wrong with the marriage, such as a failure to meet emotional needs, an excess of LBs or DJs, etc. In a good plan A you do your best to remove those issues to show your spouse how great your marriage can be. But what if that isn't really the problem?

There are plenty of husbands and wives who don't meet all of each other's emotional needs (I would even venture to guess that most do not). And every marriage has lovebusters and disrespectful judgments; some more than others. Are all marriages plagued by infidelity? Of course not.

While most affairs may fall into the category of "conditions created by the failure to meet emotional needs," there are other things at work here. Some are complex personality issues within the WS. They could be related to self-esteem, depression, sexual addiction, or other psychological disorders that are unaffected by Plan A/B.

The failure to save a marriage torn asunder by infidelity may have an even simpler explanation. What about people who don't really know what love is? People who mistake infatuation or, as Pittman calls it, the "in love" state for real love. It fades, and suddenly these people feel as though they no longer love the person that they declared as a soulmate just weeks before. How would Plan A/B help them? It wouldn't.

Don't get me wrong. Plan A/B is the only credible way I've heard of to save a marriage broken by adultery. And it probably works most of the time. But even though most affairs share the same characteristics when viewed from outside, the causes may be far more complex than we suspect.

exposure did nothing in my case....then again....everyone BUT me knew that my H and OW were living together so when i found out and "exposed" everyone knew more about the situation than I did and ended up exposing information TO ME!

yeah...that made me feel really stupid, pathetic, sad and desperate

and it got me no-where except that it made EVERYONE ELSE agree with my H-that i was just making alot of noise and bothering them

i also don't think exposure makes a big difference in a true romantic affair especially if it involves TWO romantics as in my situation....they are already willing to give everything and everyone up to be together....and in fact the more sacrifices each person makes, the more they prove thier love to OP! AND exposure should turn others against the affair partners BUT that leaves them turning to each other to find "the ONE person who still loves me" so it brings them closer together

after some time, i wonder how much keeping the affair a secret really matters to partners in a romantic affair? MAYBE if you expose when it is still very new....before they become addicted to each other

but hey! how many of us know about the A before then? usually it seems the affair becomes known because of the increased need to be together that is caused because they are already addicted to each other...or the "high" they get from being together

If i had to choose which is more destructive...a spouse who is addicted to drugs, alcohol or OP......it would be a tough choic to make

but if i had to pick which one makes that person's spouse feel the most hurt....feel the most rejected....it would be an easy choice for ME

Exactly. My WXH and the OW did their own exposure, in fact! They were only too happy to introduce each other as 'my new partner' one week after WXH had left!

The only exposure that caused them discomfort was when I told their school about the A. Shook them up a abit, but in the end it was only 'annoying noise' - and made WXH hate me. The school did nothing about it anyway. So much for their Christian ethos. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

eav and Alph,

I think you are right; there are definitely cases where exposure can actually drive the affairees closer together. Romantics feed on making sacrifices in the name of love.

I completley agree in that Romantic Affairs are the Class A heroin addict affair. Nothing short of time and reality (if that) stand a chance of breaking them. My EX WW is in this type of affair with a man 23 years older than she with a past that would make him the Charels Manson of affair partners, does she care? Does she care that her attorney told her that if she didn't distance herself from this man that she would lose custody of her son (18 mos) to me and did it matter? Does it matter today that she has indeed lost custody of our 18 mo old son? Does it matter that she intuitively knows this is a bad idea and that exposing our daughter (step daughter but mine since 13 mos old) to this lunatic and his past, knack for drama, and potentail bad ways will hurt her?

Does any of this matter? All together now.....Noooooooooo!

Therefore, I can only surmise that when you are dealing with one of these type affairs the best thing to do is protect you and your children and get out of the way of the train wreck. Exposure only served in my case to provide "us against the world" fodor for them. At the end of this both of them will have lost everything. She a wonderful loving husband and father, a 18 mo son, the respect and love of our daughter eventually, and a stable and protective home environment. He will be broke at 58 years of age (having already filed bankruptcy just last year). He will be working 80 hours per week to bring home after taxes, alimony, legal bills, lawsuit to come, etc the salary of your average working professional man even though he makes 10 times that. gross.

Do either of them care? I think not. As a matter of fact I fully expect them to be married within a 9 mos. time (he will not be divorced for another 4-6 months probably).

My prayer for them both is that they get everything each of them has to offer! This will be punishment enough.

Among romantic-type affairs, what we are really seeking here is the answer to what separates those that end with the WS seeking reconciliation from those that continue indefinitely and result in divorce.

I started another thread based on your thread here asking that of FWS. What caused them to see the romantic affair for what it was and end it regardless of reconciliation or divorce. I know beyond a shadow of doubt this is the type of A that my Ex WW is in right now.

Yes, please clue me in!

There are many issues that can affect the strength of the relationship between the WS and the OP.

I'm no expert by any means, but let me take a stab at one of these: Self-esteem.

Let's suppose you are a person with poor self-esteem for whatever reason (e.g., it might stem from childhood issues). Once you are secure in the love of your spouse you may now be open to the idea of an affair. Why? Because the value of your spouse's love has been diminished by your opinion of yourself, i.e., "If you know the real me and love me, there must be something wrong with you, because I am not worthy of being loved."

Enter a stranger. The stranger's interest in you is stimulating. He doesn't really know the real you but he likes you. You can play a role that is totally different than what you are for your spouse. The OP likes you in that role, and you like the way you feel when you're with the OP. You are feeling loved and you are allowed to be someone different in the OP's presence. You feel accepted and valued.

In short, you are engaged in a fantasy that allows you to be someone else because you aren't particularly happy with the real you and the life you were leading as a partner to your spouse. This is what Dr. Shirley Glass means when she says that WSs fall in love with "the reflection of themselves in their lover's eyes."

This involves powerful emotions, because everyone has a deep-seated need to love himself. It is paramount to one's happiness.

So what causes an affair like this to end? It only ends when the role playing breaks down to the point that the real personalities emerge and the affair partners don't like what they discover about each other.

The affair ends, but the problem of poor self-esteem has not been solved and will likely result in other affairs.

i'm bumping this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My WXH suffers from poor self-esteem. Which is ironic because he is also one of the most entitled people I know (even pre-affair).

I have no doubt that the A is deeply rooted in his own inadequacy. OW (who is a very strong and domineering person) flattered and encouraged him. They are both teahcers, and she must have made him feel great professionally (something I couldn't do).

Once the role-playing ends, I wonder if the affair will, though. WXH is a major CA, and will stick with the A if it kills him to save face and prove that what he did 'right'.

I honestly can't see the A ending. I think that the % of romantic affairs that 'make it' is much higher than the books claim.

The 3% figure is much too low, IMO, and doesn't seem to be borne out in reality. There are so many affair-marriages that I know of that just continue for years, and seem happy, too.

Alph.

Read ANNA KARENINA by LEO TOLSTOY for the best documentation of how a romantic affair gradually becomes unravelled and ends tragically. In an ordinary marriage- if any thing can go wrong it will go wrong-- but in an affair marriage those factors are increased exponentially there is so much more to go wrong.

[b]Imagine having to prop-up another adult's self-esteem for 10,15,20 years !!!

How tiring ... and this requires self-sacrificing ~~~> which leads to resentment ~~~> which leads to more entitlement

nothing quite so unattractive as a weak needy spouse who cannot support YOU when you need it because THEY are always sucking-up all the "feed-me" energy out of the relationship !!!!!!

D O O M E D

it might not end

but it might be a life sentence of cyclic parent-child conflict

yukkkkkkkkkk

if Spanish-Fly gets preggers .... Baby-man has been replaced ... and he will get his suckling ~elsewhere~

it's a set-up for him to cheat on her in the future when she cannot "mommie" him as much as he requires

Pep

It was recently pointed out to me by a human behavior major that this would not be inconsistent or unusual among persons of low self-esteem. They may exhibit great talent or outstanding academic or professional achievements simply because they work hard at trying to "prove" themselves worthy. But as you can imagine, any good feelings about themselves stemming from these kinds of achievements are fleeting, because they are generated externally.

It's like the proverbial actor who only has positive feelings of self-worth when he is on the stage performing and receiving the accolades of the audience.

i wish this and the other thread could be combined since they are about the same thing!

bump....

I am finding RA's to be very distructive to the children and I just can't believe my WW said the kids will be alrigh through this, theyc are scared of her right now, she yells and she is starting to get verbally abusive to them.

I am going to my lawyer today to find out what more I can do

Vikingruler,

Concentrate on being the best parent you can be. It's up to you now to make sure your children get through the emotional turmoil that will result from your deteriorating relationship with your WW.

Can't agree more and that is what I am doing.

I had to have my lawyer call her lawyer today to have them put pressure on WW to

1) stop yelling at the kids
2) stop threatening the kids with not seeing me so they behave
3) stop telling the kids that I am bad and the one to blame.

She leaves Thursday night to be with OM in baltimore. So I get the kids 4 nights Thurs - Sun.... How stupid can she be if I am fighting for custody and she is willing to give the kids upto me over and over so she can go be with him.

I have exposed again to OM side and she sent something to her lawyer which was forwarded onto me. So I think she thinks I am scared, ha saw her the next day and I was all smiles.

She is broke, a conflict avoider and has no plans for the future except a job at target and trips to see him.

I need to stop being mean to her, I just need to let things play out as plan a worked with OM1 but OM2 is a RA and that there is no plan for

The day after D/day, my XWH told our twelve year old daughter that he was leaving and moving in with his girlfriend. Prior to that moment, she was 100% certain that her parents were happy, and would never separate. He packed his bags and left. Our daughters screamed and clung to me. It was the end of their world.

One week later, he was pressuring me to make the children meet OW. I refused.

DD12 (now 13) suffered nightmares, severe depression, and thoughts of suicide. She lost interest in everything she had previously cared about. DD5 (now 6) suffered night terrors for weeks, bedwetting and was terrified to let me out of her sight.

I can never forgive the damage WXH and OW have done to our children. They don't even think they have caused any damage, because neither of them were here in this house to witness it.

Alph.