I can never forgive the damage WXH and OW have done to our children. They don't even think they have caused any damage, because neither of them were here in this house to witness it.



A freakin men..... They are such A holes that they can't see the hurt that their selfish, immoral and entitled behavior has done to their own flesh and blood and they don't care.

Not men, but the wayward. Women in romantic affairs are just as selfish, just as entitled.

{{{H&P}}}

Alph.

I don't think I've posted on this one but I did post on the other thread about romantic A's.

I am proof positive that even the most foggy, hopeless case that's been seen around here (me) can finally come to their senses.

As I said on the other thread, I had the double whammy of being involved with an old flame and also being extremely emotionally involved.

To tell you the honest truth the only real and true romance in my life has been the 32 year romance with my H.

BTW someone mentioned Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary falls into the same category. They are both novels about society and culture at the time of the writer's writing rather than being about A's.

KiwiJ,

Your experience is certainly an inspiration for those who still have a hope of reconciliation. Unfortunately, not all WSs make the tough choices that you made to return to your spouse.

There are some wayward spouses that are well aware of the wrong they are commiting and yet they won't stop the affair.

We consider alcoholism and drug addiction diseases that can destroy families, but for those betrayed spouses struggling to save their marriage, the addictive relationship of the WS to the OP may hold even greater emotional pain.

"How stupid can she be"

You don't really need an answer to this do you? I didn't think so. Use her stupidity against her. Let her hang herself when it comes to the children. She is like a crack addict looking for the next hit (in Baltimore). There is nothing going to get in her way or stop her much less the one sane individual she still knows, you. You represent the real world to her why would she want any part of that when fantasy land is so great. You do what's right by the children and let her crash and burn in time.

I wanted to post my update her so it bumps this because I would like to hear more about other's dealing with RA's, as I think these are the most damaging and treachorous type'

I had the girls tonight and I noticed that my 11 yr old had rings around her eyes like a 40 year old smoker, I asked her if she was sleeping okay and she almost broke down right there. she said no. I asked if she was having nightmares and she said yes, I ask were they about mom and dad, she said duh stupid.... Wife doesn't want to recognize the impact on the kids that all this has. She leaves again this weekend for extended weekend with OM. She has no regard for anyone but herself.

Bill

Vikingruler,


As bad as this is, there is nothing unusual about this kind of behavior from someone in a romantic affair.

If you spend much time reading other tales of infidelity on this forum you'll see much of the same thing over and over. One of the problems is that betrayed spouses have a tendency to think of their wayward spouse's behavior in terms of what he/she was like before the affair. The wayward spouse's entire list of priorities has changed now and you can be sure you, as a BS, aren't anywhere near the top. The kids are still on that list but they've dropped a few spots too.

It's this radical change of behavior that folks here call the "fog" or an "alien abduction." It also manifests itself in "fogspeak," the nonsense that comes out of their mouth as they try to justify their actions.

The anger she exhibits might be from the frustration at not being able to do what she wants whenever she wants, and she probably blames you and the kids for that. Or she might be angry as a response to the guilt she encounters whenever she is around the kids.

Dr. Harley says wayward spouses may also suffer bouts of depression because of the conflicts created within themselves by their involvement in the affair.

You are surprised, as almost all betrayed spouses are, at the dramatic change in your wife's behavior. First you get the shock of finding out about the affair. Then you find out she "doesn't love you anymore." You are stunned because this person, who has promised to stand by you no matter what, who is supposed to be your closest friend and confidante, and who should be the one person in all the world that you can trust, has lied, cheated, and deceived you in the worst possible way. And if that isn't enough, she is willing to risk emotional trauma to her own children just to pursue the affair.

Once you accept the fact that she is no longer rational, your expectations of her behavior will change and you will cease being surprised at anything she does.

oh I have got past the realization of she is flippin out of her head, its the fact that she so carelessly impacts the kids is what gets me.

Well I am starting custody next week after she gets back from her 5 4 day visit with OM since July 3.

Lets see how conflicted she feels then, Yes I have documented it all

It is rather difficult to comprehend how a mother can knowingly engage in behavior harmful to her children's welfare.

One poster recently e-mailed me saying it was his opinion based on the observation of numerous affairs that a marriage involving a mother of young children engaged in an affair was extremely unlikely to recover. It was his feeling that any woman who could do such a thing was too far gone to ever see the error of her ways.

Let me bump this for my friend from NY.

Sorry you had to join this club!

i would second the motion that ANY FATHER who says he loves his child but then continues on his cheating adulterous ways is also too stupid to even see the light.

And too selfish.

anyone who believes their WS is involved in a romatic affair would benefit from reading Pitman's book "private lies" because it really gives info to help build understanding of this type of affair

I agree. His book helped me understand this type of affair more than any other - and when WXH first left I was reading alot!

Pittman has a great sense of humour, too.

Alph.

Bumped by request for the benefit of Paranoid.

Just got a chance to read through this thread (Thanks Hiker for bumping it up!)

Well...a lot of what was said resonates with me...

I believe my WS is involved in a RA...and must admit that I am of the opinion that they are the type closest to a typical 'addiction' where WS is prepared to do ANYTHING to get the fix of the OW...hurt ANYBODY that gets in his way (like his family, but then deny it to alleviate guilt) ...AVOID anybody that will judge him negatively about it....and associate only with those that 'sympathize' with him and OW....

So..I do agree...that exposure in these cases may actually 'fuel' the affair...

In my case...WS at one point actually compared himself and OW as 'Romeo and Juliette'.... 'them' against 'society' with values that were meant to keep them apart, such as a 'silly' commitment of having to be faithful when married....

...I was too much in shock at the time....on thinking it over...I should have asked when were they planning to kill themselves!

WS also actually 'convinced' himself with a LOT of rewriting history.... that our home and family was a 'prison'..... and I am, thinking, like....but you CHOSE to marry me....you CHOSE to have children..... you CHOSE to have a family.... what's up?....I know...fogtalk.... that's why BS's get into a lot of trouble trying to make 'sense' of fogtalk.....I did eventually chose to stop making any sense out of something that didn't!

I do believe also that in a RA, leaving his family for WS was proof to the OW of how much he loved her.....see???? am even willing to destroy MY family for your love..yuck yuck yuck....

...but in my case, WS is also choosing NOT to live with OW....I do believe from what he told me that it is part of his plan to keep the 'romantic' and 'exciting' side going...(but I also believe it is to keep him in 'control'...as I do believe OW would really like to 'share her life totally with him').... I wonder if WS is 'stringing her along' promising to live with her one day.... maybe after our boys are grown enough?...I don't know.....

I do know that one of the objectives of WS is to somehow figure out ways to NOT let THIS love affair be lost to the 'daily' routine (read: reality)....as was our M.....

All I can say is that between D-day and the day WS decided to move....about six months.....it was pure ****** for me emotionally and psychologically....

...the only option to 'protect' myself from further being hurt was PLAN B.....

I had never been confronted before in my personal life with such high level of selfish acts.... I now have that claim to fame!

I also think that now I better understand maybe why an abused spouse allows the abuse to continue.....as so often is the case.... besides the fact that they hope the other will eventually 'change' and want so badly to believe in the promises...for fear the 'unknown'...for fear of being 'alone'...

...it is because the abused spouse may actually 'buy' into the abuser's theory that it is 'their fault' that they are being abused! ... if only they would have managed to be perfect....and not have set them off!

...now...in my case....while I was in shock.... I did think it was my fault for a while, and what did I need TO DO or NOT do to make WS change his mind...but ....I guess 'something' in me eventually saw the light.... understood that it had nothing to do with me.... and the best I could do is to 'remove' myself from a very toxic relationship with WS....until at least the minimum PLAN B condition was met: no contact with OW.....

and that's where I am at... over one year in PLAN B....
Sure, PLAN B is not EASY....but when you care enough about yourself and know that contact with WS is 'harmful' to you well-being...and that contact means abuse.... it becomes very very EASY...

The problem for BS's arises when the whole Affair experience destroys one's self-esteem and worth.... and it then becomes a vicious circle.....and the BS can actually become an 'enabler' of the abuse and of the A.....

I have chosen PLAN B.....and let 'reality' take care of A......

Sorry for being so long-winded...need to go..and don't have a lot of time to edit...

But...yes....I would agree that very little can be done in the case of a RA....the best medicine.....is allowing 'reality' to deal with it...let it run its course.....because it is the type that has the highest level of 'fantasy' going and therefore it might be the hardest hit by it...

There are a lot of people out there who know this feeling first hand, including me.


Another thing we share.

One of the reasons the BS keeps trying to save the relationship is what I call the slot machine effect. You plug away putting coins in the slot machine and every once in a while it kicks out a few dollars to keep you interested; just the same way your WS may show brief signs of coming out of the fog, making you feel as if, "hey, maybe he/she is finally seeing the light." But just as the machine keeps taking your money without giving up the jackpot, your spouse lapses right back into the fog as you continue to make your emotional investment in trying to save your marriage, getting little or nothing in return.

Eventually, of course, most BS's will tire of this and walk away, having decided that it is a lost cause.

I wish you the best, Luna. I know and understand your pain.

Very true.

I'm positive that my WW is in an RA. I don't know if the OM is as entrenched as she is, but WW went from wanting to have a baby with me (we discussed fertility meds on D-Day) to fuming and wanting a divorce less than two weeks afte D-Day when I moved back into my house and told her I was not going to give up on my marriage.

This describes my WW to a T:

********* My WXH suffers from poor self-esteem. Which is ironic because he is also one of the most entitled people I know (even pre-affair).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was recently pointed out to me by a human behavior major that this would not be inconsistent or unusual among persons of low self-esteem. They may exhibit great talent or outstanding academic or professional achievements simply because they work hard at trying to "prove" themselves worthy. But as you can imagine, any good feelings about themselves stemming from these kinds of achievements are fleeting, because they are generated externally.*************


The RA has no gone on for two years. We didn't have a bad marriage at all, and I really belive that it is her low self esteem and her seeing the reflection of what she wants to be in his eyes that resulted in the RA.

I know that WW is going to say and do some awful things to me in the coming months, but by finding this site I am prepared for such and just have to keep reminding myself to take this time to do things that I like to do and accept the fact that she will not be rational.

Know that you have company Scotty. My EXWW to the letter!