We are on the same page, Muddled.

This is what I think happened with my H.

He began to rely on the OW for use as an ANTIDEPRESSANT and got hooked.

During PLAN B, it stopped working for him. He was DEPRESSED and the DRUG stopped working. She couldn't keep the source going 24/7.

He came back home DEPRESSED and the DEPRESSIVE CORE inside of my H remains...now he has the added burden of the PAIN that he feels about the A.

I'm speaking for him but the way I understand it is that he has ACCEPTED that EMOTIONAL PAIN is a part of life and he has to LIVE WITH it...rather than try to escape from it.

I don't see him choosing another addiction. From what he shares, what he ENDURED during PLAN B..living with the OW 24/7 makes him not want to go back to THAT EMOTIONAL PLACE again...he describes it like it was a LIVING HE//...not giving any specifics...some of it was his GUILT about what he was doing....and concerns about the life they were leading...

We both are rather what the psychologists call DSYTHYMIC..having lived all of our lives as long as we can remember with a LOW GRADE DEPRESSION...

This applies to my WW as well. She has been depressed as long as she can remember. For the first time in her life she doesn't "feel" depressed, yet her thinking always makes her a passive participant in her life. The feelings have changed yet the reasons she felt depressed before haven't - if anything she has more reason to be depressed now, and it scares me to think of what this will do to her in the end.

I know plan B will significantly change the way my W views the world. There's so much that she takes for granted now that will be gone. It will be a real wake-up call. The trouble is that I don't think it can be done until the process moves along, and by then it might be too late - the dramatic cutting of emotional support ties may not be so dramatic after so much time. On the other hand, things are different now than before - I have grown a lot and am recognizing a lot of things in myself that have allowed bad dynamics in the relationship, but more importantly, in the way I interact with myself and the world. She's aware of the changes, and she likes and respects them, but she doesn't know how or why they came about. This has raised her curiosity level, which has renewed her desire to reach out - and renew some of her attachment to me. There's hope.

It seems many people believe their spouse should make them happy, and if they are not happy, then there must be something wrong with their marriage.

In our society, which seems to grow less spiritual and increasingly materialistic with the passing of time, it may be inevitable that more people will seek happiness from external sources, rather than within themselves.

Ooops. Wait a minute. Dr.Harley advocates this.

The First Rule of Marriage is the RULE OF PROTECTION which states AVOID BEING THE CAUSE OF YOUR SPOUSE'S UNHAPPINESS.

p. 166 in Surviving an Affair:

One of the easiest ways to protect your spouse is to follow another rule- THE POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT...by getting your spouse's enthusiastic agreement to what you do, you avoid behavior that will cause your spouse to be UNHAPPY.

I just LOVE the FOUR RULES OF MARRIAGE which we definitely were not following prior to my H's affair but strictly adhere to now.

We are discussing two different things here. True happiness/inner peace (the general condition in life of which most people are trying to attain) cannot be sustained by external influences (unless you consider the pharmacological solutions).

Temporary fixes of happiness or joy can be generated by numerous events, just as unhappiness can be caused by any number of situations.

Dr. Harley is merely saying that we should not be the source or cause of our spouse's unhappiness or misery. That is not the same as saying we must be the source of our spouse's long term happiness/inner peace. That is a burden no one can carry, nor should they be compelled to do so.

Ok, Hiker. Agreed.

In fact, this is what Dr. Harley specifically states about this in his article about the CODEPENDENCY MOVEMENT.

I think this may be the logic in some cases, but in others I think it is a little different. I think some people get into affairs in an attempt to create there own inner happiness. Some people say to themselves one day, I'm not happy. Then they "experiment" with new things to try and be happy. This experimentation at the begining could be completely acceptable. A new hobby, a new job, etc. BUt if that doesn't do the trick, they relax the constraints on their choices of experimentation. Their value systems change. Then their experiments become not so acceptable. They have an affair and voila, they are happy. Much has been written on the physiological reasons why they feel happy. At this point, once they have discovered happiness with OP, then they conclude something was wrong with the marriage. It had to be so because I was unhappy when I was with BS and I was happy when I was with OP. I think this is more the case with romantic affairs.

To compound this even further, it starts a downward spiral. As the A continues, but before D-Day, the M becomes more and more a source of unhappiness, as tension mounts as the WS withdraws more, conceals more, etc. and the unwitting BS begins to rage against an enemy they do not even know. This further reinforces M bad, OP good. The BS doesn't believe this is the case because in their efforts to conceal the A, they have convinced even themselves that they are acting no differently towards the BS.

After D-Day, it spirals downward even further.

Post this, I think some WS's never realize this dynamic. I think others realize it, but still want to get a way from the M because they can't believe the M will ever make them happy given the damage they have done.

In my situation, my wife has articulated that she was looking to a relationship (and bringing a child into the world) as a way to restore the security of her family that she lost to divorce when she was 18. So her expectation of the relationship's function is not simply to "make her happy" but it's to fix her past, replace what was lost and broken. A bit ironic, but I guess that's the way this nasty cycle works generation after generation.

In our society lack of happiness tends to always be attributable to something external - looking to Hollywood seems to prove this. If you're single you are unhappy because you're not in a relationship, if you're married it's because the relationship isn't working, or you don't have enough money, or friends. I think the real problem does come down to pervasive materialist thinking - even in the areas of spirituality. I think the problem is that our society has two goals that are constantly at odds: our economy is dependant on people NOT being "happy" and convincing them that "happiness" is just a purchase away and then we have the goal of actually being happy. I put happiness in quotes because I don't think what's being sold is happiness, but rather the excitement anticipation of and the actual the satisfaction of lust - I think true happiness appears dull next to this. A pretty clear parallel can be drawn here.

On the subject of happiness, I read a great book that is worth reading. It's called "What Happy People Know" by Dan Baker. He's comes from the field of Positive Psychology,, which is interesting because it has diverged from the traditional medical model. It doesn't subscribe to the notion that health is the elimination of pathology (if you have a scale with a value in the negative, and you remove whatever is pulling it into the negative you're still at zero). He's suggesting a pretty holistic approach to interacting with life that really opens up a lot of opportunities for changing your own experience.

(I think you meant "The WS doesn't believe . . .")

This is unquestionably true. The BS is initially unaware of the betrayal, but the relationship deteriorates as the WS withdraws. There is often noticeably less affection and sexual fulfillment from the WS, and tension increases. There may be more arguments; some the result of the conscious or unconscious actions of the WS to actually sabotage the relationship as a way of pushing away the BS and thereby excusing the affair.

Here is another favorite tactic of waywards to deflect the real issues of an adulterous relationship:


"He/she (the OP) has nothing to do with our problems." -- the wayward spouse speaking to the betrayed spouse.

Dr. Pittman, Dr. Glass, and others mention this line of thinking as a strong indication of self denial and self deception.

Hiker,

Absoultely right on! My EX WW did this and I thought I was going insane. I thought of having her admitted before I knew of her A. Heck, I thought I was going insane.

Hiker, I would like to talk to you sometime about this matter if you choose. You offer some very good insight on this subject. My email is jefferyrwebb@tds.net
If you will email me I will provide my cell phone number.

hopeandpray,

I will e-mail you at my first opportunity -- can't do it from this computer.

In the meantime, can you direct me to the thread of your story so I can catch up on the facts?

Hiker,

I will try and find it (a while back now) but it will be a lot easier to give you the cliff notes by phone when we talk. Suffice it to say that I have now divorced EX WW, have custody of our 21 month old son and I am doing quiet well in getting over this tragedy. I want to share with you but I am really interested in talking pariculars regarding this thread on Romantic Affairs more in order to understand some things a little better.

I look forward to us talking.

Yes - Thanks for catching my typo

I have to say this particular thread has helped me so much to understand the deception capabilities of a WS in a RA. I really thing the CIA should hire these people for super spies.... I hope my WW one day comes to a realization of the impact of her actions.... he has basically through her life away. She is living on a shoe string, string her parents along to support her while waiting for her knight in shinnig armor to come and rescue her.

hopeandpray,

I e-mailed you and it was returned with a message that your mailbox was full.

vikingruler,

I think one of the most important contributions of this thread is that it helps us (BSs) understand that there is often a recognizable pattern to WS behaviors. Like hopeandpray, after reading enough material about the behavior of waywards, I realized I wasn't going crazy after all.

Think of any list you see like a comparison of YOU versus CRACK COCAINE. It essentially the same comparison and as you regain your self confidence that list will mean nothing to you. You will be able to see it for what it is .... a load of fog crap.

I did my share of snooping during my wife's affair and in doing so I gained enough insight into her mind to conclude at that time she was nuts. The breaking point or lightbulb moment for me was when I overheard my wife telling OM by email that I was TOXIC. It is/was so far from the truth that I was totally able to comprehend it was ALL fog talk and none of it was a reflection on me. The addiction had taken over and she would say or do just about anything to keep her "endorphin" supplier open and delivering the really good stuff.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I emailed Hopeandpray too and got the same message. Check your other email box hope...I sent you a couple today.

Mr. Wondering, Hiker;

I think I cleaned up my email. Try me again.

Thanks

There are a host of painful aspects with regard to infidelity. The attack on one's self-esteem is certainly one of the more critical issues, since one's reaction to this can range anywhere from a conscious effort to "re-create" oneself into a new image, to the extreme opposite: suicide.

I wonder if there is any more effective way of destroying a person's self confidence than by having the person you love most, and who once proclaimed that same feeling for you, suddenly decide that you are no longer worthy of their affection.

This site and all the material I've read helped me understand that:

a. Millions of people do this to their spouses.
b. The pattern of wayward behavior is strikingly similar, right down to the things they say.
c. The overwhelming majority of their "soulmate" relationships with OPs dissolve into nothing within a few short years or less.
d. Marriages can be saved from this disaster and actually become better with a good recovery program.

When cheaters cheat on each other . . .

I read an interesting article about how many adulterers end their affairs. It seems it is not unusual for one of the cheaters to take an interest in someone else, essentially cheating on their cheating partner.

Can you guess what the most common excuse for breaking up is under these conditions?

The cheater tells his/her partner that he/she is having second thoughts about cheating; that they feel they should end their affair and try to make amends to their spouse. They claim to have an attack of conscience.

Then they move on to the next affair partner.