Fiatflux,

We were both counseling (group, individual) with Steve Harley (even though it was over the phone), but my husband said he didn't want to continue that.

He said that we should be able to work it out on our own.

Hmm...

Mulan,

Thanks for the tips-and-tricks on dealing with P/A behavior. It means a lot to me.

I wonder if your husband likes to damage his wedding ring like mine does.

I called him on it weeks ago while he was picking at the replaced diamond in his ring as though it was a stubborn label on an old pickle jar.

It went something like this, "You trying to pick that out?"

You should have seen the look on his face.

At least now we'll both know WHY the diamond goes "missing" like the first one did during our early years of marriage.

Uh-oh...

Plan IDB (I deserve better) must be taking effect.

Today, my husband searched online for "anxiety symtoms".

He was checking out the difference between panic and anxiety. Learning how to breathe to relax and avoid an attack.

I don't recall him ever searching for self-help information since I've been monitoring his computer at work.

Some good things have been happening.

But I'm not sure what to think of them yet.

Anyway, my husband and I had another long meeting at the parking lot/restaurant today.

When our conversation got to the part on building trust and being honest, I introduced the idea of a polygraph test as something that could help settle things for me regarding his answers to my questions.

Mostly, I wanted to see his reaction, as I wasn't firm on the idea of taking a test yet.

Does anyone know what his response was?

He came right out and said that he WOULD NOT do it. And he got upset about it.

He was adamant that those tests are unreliable, wouldn't listen to the possibility that they could be reliable, refused to base our marriage decisions on the results of a "machine" test, and complained that I learned about this online (MB website).

Whew!

I told him that I was willing to take a polygraph test with him and compare the accuracy of the results if necessary, and that if he passed most of the test, I would feel much better about him being honest with me.

It didn't matter to him.

He claimed that he would be much more nervous than me and that he would fail the test for that reason alone.

I asked him why he was so upset about it and why he would be nervous taking such a test.

He went so far as to say that he might as well go into the test with the attitude that he's going to lose his marriage, because he is bound to fail a high-tech machine test which couldn't possibly be accurate.

Interesting, huh?

I was already having a hard time breathing today.

And then I was faced with my first "wobbly knees/can hardly stand" experience.

That's because I stared down the woman at church who I finally caught flirting/smiling at my husband.

She was not expecting me to be dead set on watching to see how she was going to get my husband's attention today.

Apparently, my husband has been rewarding her each week as he stands there next to me, looking her way.

The best part is that when she tried it today, she first looked at me to see if I was watching.

Both my eyes were on her until I nearly knocked her down with my NO SMILE stare. You see, she's accustomed to getting a friendly smile from me. Not anymore!

For about a half hour, she tried repeatedly to look over her shoulder and get her fix. But every time, I was ready and waiting because I had discovered her pattern.

Finally she quit altogether, after looking VERY uncomfortable with each glance.

Now she knows that I know.

I don't blame her entirely. I admit my husband is about as handsome and charming as they get.

And I was of the thinking that she probably had marital problems and was just appreciating my husband, because her husband is never with her, but mine is with me.

I changed my mind about it a week or two ago, when I saw her flash a HUGE smile, with a bashful swing of her head and an expression that said, "Oh, come on Darling".

If my husband is rewarding her, against our marriage recovery, that would be all it takes to bring the curtain down for me.

My husband could hardly look me in the eyes today (Edit: I now realize he was planning to tell the truth for the first question I had).

But he had called a meeting...

Did we make progress?

I think so.

My husband answered his first question honestly today.

This is MAJOR.

It was the first question I had asked about his Strategy (result of his first session with Steve Harley) MONTHS ago and I have evidence that he told the truth today.

I can't believe it.

I just need to pause and think about this.

He was the one to call the meeting today, knowing that I would be leaving for about 10 days with a couple of the kids, plus he wanted to finish up a series of meetings that we had over the last 4 days.

During those meetings, he seemed to realize that I don't think he loves me and I no longer trust him.

Do you think he got the vibes of my Plan IDB (I Deserver Better)?

Now here's the bad news…

The rest of the questions I asked, he answered, but NOT convincingly or to my satisfaction. I just want him to put the pieces of the puzzle together for me according to the evidence I already have.

So I guess I'm back to Plan IDB. Yah!

Oh, man...

Now something's happening. Good, because I'm spent.

Yesterday, I was reading a thread about the signs of true remorse. According to the common sense descriptions, my husband does not currently qualify as someone who is remorseful.

Knowing this got my mind and heart back on track. I had been getting overwhelmed.

You see, the first day traveling with the kids, I had several breathing attacks while thinking about what my husband said to me (recent meetings).

I thought I would have to pull over (driving) and recover, which would certainly delay our arrival.

But I didn't pull over. I didn't want the kids to worry.

Instead, I practiced breathing techniques that I learned for delivering babies, and practiced them for what felt like chest organ contractions.

It worked. I got dizzy only once and was ready to pull over if necessary.

When we called home that night, one of our kids at home noticed I wasn't feeling well.

So I decided I should try to sound better the next night, otherwise my husband would know that he got me down.

That worked too. Not only did I have a wonderful day with the kids that were with me, but also I made a point to sound like I was having a great time even though it was late (tired) when we called.

The very next day (today), I get an email from my husband making a comment that I sounded like I was having a GOOD TIME (no coincidence he said this), and that he wanted me to know that he had contacted an old pastor (that I approve of) and asked for help with his lust problem.

Did I just read that?

The keylogger showed that he was advised to go to the "Sexaholics Anonymous" website.

I think this would be a big step in the right direction for my husband.

The timing is none too soon, either. For SURVIVAL reasons, I was initiating the "pick him off" attitude in my mind yesterday. Just being with friendlier people reminded me how ridiculous his behavior is.

That's right. He needs to GET OUT of HIMSELF and GET INTO our relationship and the world around him.

If he doesn't, then I simply don't know him!

At the same time, I feel sorry for him.

More than anything, my heart aches for what should have been.

And what could be.

I'm on the verge of tears.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

So I have some great music blasting in my ears and I've finally taken my raised and swinging arms out of the air...

My husband admitted what I have feared all this time.

He's a sexaholic.

Since our earliest years of marriage he's been "looking AND thinking about sex with other women than my wife".

I thought I saw him begin to "act out" last month while sitting in traffic near another vehicle with a bare-shouldered woman in it.

To think he recently said, "I don't think about having sex with other women!"

Now I know why I have felt so d--- UNLOVED.

UNLOVED!

Yes, UNLOVED.

But he didn't admit this to me.

Are you kidding?

He emailed it (Thank God for keyloggers!) to our old pastor.

Today is a day of freedom for me.

I am sane.

My gut was right.

Okay, now that I've got that out...

He also claims that he hasn't been physical with other women since we married.

I'll believe it when I see him pass a polygraph test, which he'll never take anyway.

He has yet to explain why he didn't want me to know that he met with Blondie at the office after hours.

I would feel much differently right now had he answered my questions truthfully when I desperately needed answers months ago.

I don't know when I'll ever feel loved by him.

Will I EVER be able to make love with him and look in his eyes without wondering if he's thinking about other women instead of me?

I remember something he said last summer when I began my Plan A.

During sex, he'd say "only you". I wondered what he meant by that, but never asked, for fear of what I thought he could mean.

Now I know. He's accustomed to having sex with other women emotionally, but physically with only me.

Gee, how wonderful!

Today was supposed to be a great day for our relationship.

We had planned to take off together for his business meeting out of town, check into an upscale hotel, have dinner late, sleep in until noon and then grab a latte' and a meal on our way back home the next day.

But I canceled our romantic getaway because of what happened in the days leading up to it.

You see, I had given him another chance.

He kept calling meetings (I admired his leadership) and he started sharing (finally some honesty) with me about the advice he was given by an old pastor regarding his Sexaholism.

What I didn't know at the time of our meetings was that he had already broken down, on his knees, and cried...most of one night. We were not sleeping in the same bedroom at the time due to relationship stress insomnia.

So once we agreed (first he tried to get out of it) that he would attend Sexaholics Anonymous (SA) meetings, I felt like we were going to make progress. I wanted to do everything possible to help out.

Then the night before (what I thought would be) his first SA meeting, he comes home with a Passive/Aggressive attitude.

What made it worse was that he was NOT transparent about his activities throughout that day, which had been his notorious pattern whenever I was out of town with the kids (for the day).

When I greeted him at the door, I received a deflated kiss (I hate those!) and a hug that said, "I don't want to love you".

I knew what that meant.

To me, it meant that I had been a stupid object of lust for him.

That he married me only because I was FOOL enough.

And all the wonderful and sincere things he said at our last restaurant meeting (I had returned home early from the previous trip) and thereafter, and all the Sexual Fulfillment (SF) we had since then, really didn't matter.

To add to the moment, I had already been pondering our whopping 15 hours of Undivided Attention (UT) within the 3 preceding days. Did it seem right that 90% or more of that UT time was for SF only?

I was beginning to think that we really didn't have a REAL relationship. We were getting along because we were having sex. That's all.

And that's not to mention the instances where he gawked in my presence (which I overlooked for the sake of future Sexaholic recovery), making me feel very unworthy and causing me more pain than when he later failed to text message me on his whereabouts, especially at such a tender time in our relationship.

So it didn't take much to decide what I wanted to do.

Yesterday, during a quick meeting that he called at home, I used his "lack of transparency" prior to the weekend to put our relationship back on HOLD (no sex without honesty), thinking that when he finishes his 12 Steps of SA, maybe he'll be ready for a relationship.

Until then, he doesn't know what love is anyway (his addiction has replaced it with lust). So I'm wasting my time...and my body.

Where's the truth about how he has adulterated against me? He told our old pastor. Now he can tell me. Otherwise, I still can't trust him, right?

After politely asking him if we covered everything at our quick meeting, I got up to leave the room.

He sat there on the bed, by himself – dumbfounded.

He came home with sad eyes tonight.

Okay, so I'm in the bathtub (with Phone/PDA), trying to keep warm.

My husband came home last night with his old, COLD behavior, which is all too familiar, and I feel a bit chilled.

Today, he did a couple things that he knows bother, or worse yet, hurt me.

I really don't mind if he talks with his mouth full, unless my Love Bank is empty. Then, I would rather not be in the same room.

But what hurts is when he writes an email, that he knows I will eventually find, to the female main buyer of his products, after I had declined to go with him to the meeting due to his lack of honesty, and uses the SAME words he uses to describe enjoyable time spent with me.

(Edit: It turns out that he didn't actually send all that he had written in his draft, which my keylogger picked up.)

I have concluded that he likes to hurt me. But he is only hurting himself.

A year ago today, I started searching on adultery (signs of) and found this website.

Since then, we have bought and (at least I) have studied much of the MB course.

We have counseled with Steve Harley, although our sessions were not completed (husband canceled).

I have put what feels like 1000% into our marriage recovery.

Some things have changed.

My husband is not as pessimistic as he used to be.

He doesn't get as upset when we communicate as he used to.

I have more self respect, as I don't allow myself to remain a victim of his deception.

I have better hair and nails, naturally, and I am eating healthier, breathe more, and hardly have any heart palpitations.

I make it a point to spend more time with our children instead of brew over our relationship.

But nothing else seems to have changed for our relationship.

I can't say that his heart has ever been into the questionnaires, the books, even the counseling.

After a year of trying, I feel that he should do the heavy lifting now.

I choose not to be consumed by our marital problems.

Of all the plans I've worked, I have to say Plan IDB (I deserve better) seems to have had the most impact on him.

Maybe because it was liberating, fun for me to do, or maybe because the other Plans had already taken effect. Who knows?

Life must go on for me.

I have no regrets for giving it my ALL.

Except that I did some embarrassing things (he never asks this of me) to try to be desired, wanted or loved by him.

But when I look back, those very things prove that I went above and beyond the call of duty.

I'm happy with whom God made me to be and I often wonder what His plan for our marriage is.

You are quite correct that he DOES like to hurt you. That's because when he can see the hurt and pain he causes, he is reassured that he is Winning and you are Losing. Some people are not comfortable any other way and it's clear that he's one of them.

But you are wrong that he's hurting himself. It's not hurting him one bit. He's quite happy and comfortable to hurt you because then he can be sure that he's Winning and not Losing. That's all that matters to him.

If you go on hoping that if he could just understand how much he is hurting he woudn't want to hurt you anymore, you will still be living like this when you are 120 years old.

Obs, if you want anything change here, you would have to learn everything there is know about dealing with a Passive/Aggressive spouse and launch a full-on nuclear attack.

After that, you would need a stone-cold and pitch-black Plan B for at least a few months.

Those two things together *might* bring him around.

*Might*.

Absolutely nothing else has any chance of reaching him. He's perfectly comfortable and happy where he is.

Good luck.
Mulan

Thanks, Mulan. You're awesome!

Obs:

I am beginning to wonder who the P/A person is in this relationship.

Where have you EVER shown consistency in actions and behaviors to make your H feel safe?

One day, everythings great.

Then your H may glance at another woman across the room, and BOOM.

Back to plan P, JF, whatever.

But, that's OK. Cause it is HIS FAULT.

Sorry.

I'm not buying it.

Sorry Mulan. I'm not buying it.

Tell me that Obs isn't doing many of the same P/A behaviors she notes in her H.

Obs, you will NEVER possess your H completely.

He is still responsible for his thoughts, and his eyes, and his dreams.

So are you.

Obs:

You get seemingly so MUCH pleasure by creating a negative reaction in your H. From him sitting dumbfounded on the bed, to canceling a romantic weekend because of ???? I still do not understand from that post what your H did wrong, outside of your precieved reactions to everything.

Is your H a sexaholic? Because your pastor said so? No, I don't think so.

Has he acted out sexually inappropriately with others? (something that can be considered sexual harrassment?) No.
Does he view a lot of Porn? On the internet?, DVD's? Magazines?
Has he forced, cajoled, or recommended that you do things with him sexually that are inappropriate and degrading? (And everything that isn't missionary isn't inappropriate and degrading, that's on you) Things like threesomes, or him watching you with others, Master/slave things that inflict pain?

These are some extreme examples, yes. But your H wanting to have SF with YOU does not make him a sexaholic. It can give you the PERFECT P/A gatekeeping device, however....

I have been following your posts since the beginning.

You have grown, and you have learned. Maybe your H is just an old stick in the mud. Early on, I asked you some very challenging questions about your own selfishness and you need to have it all yours, all the time. And you just walked away from that. And never really responded.

Yes, you busted up your H's A with Blondie, nipped it in the bud as it were.

Consistency in actions in regards to your H have NOT occurred however.

And you DO control that.

LG

How about a little humor?

I was thinking about stealing my husband's rulebook for marriage.

It's easy to follow and should keep me out of trouble.

You see, as long as I don't get caught in bed having sex with another man, he can't accuse me of adultery, right?

I could have a lot of fun.

And we could both live happily ever after using the SAME rulebook.

Sounds good to me. What am I waiting for?

Bwahahahaha!

Hey, I can't find my husband's rulebook for marriage...

Observing-

Actually, I agree with Jim's observations. That's why I stopped posting on your thread as well. I'd venture a GUESS that this would be why most have stopped posting to you, and this thread has pretty much become your running monologue.

I've thought for quite some time that there's nothing your husband can do to get it right in your marriage. I've wondered if the problem was more with your perceptions rather than what's really going on. I get the impression that your husband has TRIED to work it out, but simply can't live up to your expectations.

It seriously seems to me that you never ONCE got true PROOF of anything...with huge amounts of nearly James Bond level spy-work. You may have found something starting with "blondie"...its hard to tell. But even other than that, there's never been any concrete evidence of anything else that I've seen. Perhaps I'm wrong.

I'm sorry for the 2x4, but I'm calling it like I see it. I'd recommend a GOOD MC...I think that they would be able to help work through and determine where the source of the problem lies...if truly is with your husband behaving inappropriately, or not. Have you considered IC for yourself...see if that might help work through things too?

Excuse me, Owl, but where did your wife temporarily hide her rulebook for marriage during her affair?

Lousygolfer, you're remarkable.

So where do you think his secret hiding place would be?

I already looked behind the backdoor of his office.