For two and a half years, I have been fighting with every bit of my being to save my failing marriage with Stacy. We have been together for 13 years, married 10 of them. I am 37, she is 29, and we have three children, Tammy (8), Ashley (5), and Jon (2). I was not being the person I should have been at home. I was guilty of living the poem by Ella Wheeler Wilcox “An Unfaithful Wife to Her Husband”.

I guess I never felt I deserved Stacy, and when we met, she saw through my tough guy exterior, and that made me feel weak in her eyes. That scared me. All I ever wanted was for her to be proud of me. However, I worked so hard outside of our home trying to win approval and respect from her, that I neglected what was truly important; her and our kids.

So, 8 months into her pregnancy with Jon, she decided she was through with me and started an affair with a frightfully awful trade down. She kept it secret as long as she could, but two months after Jon was born, Tammy, reacting as would be expected from a little girl who knew her family was in trouble, responded in the only way she knew how to try and get help by acting out in such a way that a county appointed counselor was brought in. Shortly before her first visit, Tammy told me of “Mommy’s friend Kevin” and the sleepovers they had had there. Stacy then, about 5 minutes later, on her way home from “school” (she was actually driving 150 miles to see him everyday instead of going to nursing school) gave me the “We need to talk” phone call. I was devastated.

I ‘m very sure you are aware of what I went through and am going through emotionally and physically.
I was never strong in my belief in God, for I felt I had religion crammed down my throat growing up (Southern Baptist and Catholicism), and was never given a chance to choose it myself, so I rebelled. I did not believe in anything but science and myself. That was until my world was shattered. I am guilty of what we all are sometimes in our life; only looking to God when I got into trouble and was hurting. From the second I found out, I changed my life.

I was even lucky enough to somehow acquire the ear and assistance of Dr. Bill Harley, to who I speak to via telephone on nearly a weekly basis. He showed me the way (as far as marriage was concerned) and encouraged me to strengthen my faith. He provided me with all the resources, advice, and everything else he had to offer at no charge. She thinks of Dr. Harley and his principles as bull****.

Stacy left and moved in with Kevin anyway three months later. For nearly a year and a half, I was alone, except when the kids were with me. Oh, how I cried, and still do.

In February of last year, his drinking, verbal abuse, porn addiction, and sexual deviance had weighed heavily on her mind, and she started making plans to bring me back into the picture. He squandered his money and started relying on her to pay all of his bills, and ended up losing his flea market business. I, by the way, am a very skilled and very well-paid welder.

March of last year we moved into a place in Tammy’s new school district, and I found a good job, a house for us to buy, and thought “This is my chance!” However, she has for the most part been the definition of indifference, except for a few stretches of time that lasted no more than 2 or 3 weeks at a time. She still continued the affair up until about a month and a half ago, despite us “getting back together” (in living arrangements only).

I have done everything in my power to live 1 Corinthians 13, and Jesus’ opinion on marriage, and let me tell you, it has been the worst time of my life. Sure, I get to see her and our children every day, but the lonely feeling in my heart, the coldness she still exhibits, the emptiness of my arms that want to hold her so badly, frankly, it’s torture. She won’t even let me show her I care, or tell her I love her.

She was recently diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and/or Borderline Personality Disorder. She intentionally makes up things to argue about, or intentionally makes more out of things that don’t require yelling to keep her hatred of me intact. It seems to me that she has to force herself to hate me.

The whole time she always threatened divorce(we have been married the whole time, not even legally separated through all of this), or thrown the children and my needing to concentrate on the kids up in my face whenever I try to talk about “us”. She has said she has the papers waiting, or is talking to a lawyer, but those are untruths.

I recently stumbled upon the resources from Turning Point with Dr. David Jeremiah. Whenever she hears anything from Dr. Jeremiah's Home Improvement Series, I try to introduce it to her during one of the humorous stories he tells, and she’ll listen until it starts to get serious. She has even managed to make me feel guilty about my faith, implying that I am being selfish and only using it for what it says about marriage and adultery. A Pastor that I am talking to asked me why I felt guilty about doing what God says. He asked me what did He say about marriage (Malachi), and that those feelings of guilt were not of God.

Well, after the affair ended, she proposed that she would give 6 months for us to work things out. Not surprisingly, she went back on her offer, the first one she had made since our problems began. And, in a strange coincidence, two days after she gave the offer, Stacy found out that the boyfriend she had before she met me, to whom she hasn't spoken to since she was 14, was trying to get in touch with her through the classmates site. He lives in Alaska. Ironically, his name is Kevin as well. As expected from someone in a fog, she started fawning and trying to "rekindle" the immature, abusive relationship she had with him. He has no intention of moving back to Minnesota, and told me he didn't want to be a factor in the breakup of a family. Stacy can't hardly move to Alaska either. But I have found that she still is trying to build on something with him that never really was and was never meant to be, which is realistically and logistically dumb.

And now, I have a founded suspicion of her re-contacting the Kevin she left me for. So I am back to square one; A wife that is "done" with the marriage, but wants to benefit from it any way she can without putting anything into the partnership, meanwhile keeping me in a financial situation and using the children to do so where I can take no steps to put my foot down.

I have been told that my greatest quality besides my intelligence (it didn’t do me much good in my marriage) is my integrity. I believe that when one makes a promise, one must keep that promise, especially a promise as important as marriage or parenthood. I am fully intent on taking those promises to my grave, regardless of the emotional toll it takes on me. Many have said they admire me, many more have said I am stupid.

Stacy and our kids are the only thing that matter to me on this Earth. She says I shouldn’t put the two together, and gets angry at me when I do. Oh, and let someone say “family” around her and watch her roll her eyes. I am trying to do everything right, but she makes it all seem wrong, and blames me for everything that happens. She hurts me so much. I have treated her only with kindness, caring, encouragement, and love, yet she is indifferent. Her brother told me there is something worse than hate; indifference. I agree. At least in hate you get acknowledged.

I truly believe that, as with the prodigal son, if I am faithful enough, and continue to follow God’s word, and try to be a beacon in her fog, our marriage will eventually be reconciled. I do believe that God uses pain and hardship not as punishment, but as an opportunity to learn. I see that I was on the wrong side of the fence when it came to God, marriage, and family and I have changed my life to get me where I need to be; where God wants me to be. I kind of feel like Job, and I am eagerly awaiting the payoff for my faith, however long it takes.

Str8jktmn,

Thanks for the update. Seems like she is bent on the road to self-destruction. You really want t/b with her now? I am not saying it's over but I am saying you ought to decide if you will continue to allow her to use you to have her A. See the WS in her wants you to support her financially while she picks losers. It's ok to pick losers in her warped WS mind 'cuz you are there to pick up the pieces. Feel used yet?

Got anger? Get support. Call Jennifer @ MB for a recovery plan 4 u 1st.

take care,
L.

Up. Feeling isolated.

Hey, Str8...saw your post to HNT and thought I'd check out your thread.

My eyes crossed.

Uhm, can you edit your post with paragraphs? Please, for an old nearsighted lady?

You can feel isolated, even when you're not. You can see where you're apart of this board, this community and the entire human race...as significant and real as all of us.

I'm interested in your response to Orchid's question...

LA

Orchid's question? I'm not sure I remember that one.

Sure thing, I'll edit my post for you.

There are a couple I will respond to.

Yes, I want to be with her. Don't ask me why, but I can't even force myself to not want to.

And yes, I do feel used. But, in a way, in an unchristian sort of realism, I am getting what I gave(KARMA). That is one way to look at it.

However, I hold on to the AGAPE I am ordered to have for her(I give you everything even if I get nothing in return).

Wow!

Does SH use your story as an example of incredible perseverance and love?

~ Marsh

See now I have a different take from Marshmallow.

First off from what I have learned Agape is a love based on principle. May or may not include affection or fondness. It is not ruled by feeling or sentiment and never ignores principles. Agape is a love that can be shown to others even to and from God. Phileo or phila, is a type of love showing affection denoting personal attachment, like the word philadephia known as brotherly love. The love between a H & W is more like storge - family or natural affection.

The A on the other hand does not come close in displaying the qualities required in love. Intead it mimicks it with pseudo fantasy lies and thrives on hate rather than love to grow.

The sad piece is that many affected by the A (BS and family) find it hard to believe the one person who is suppose to be there for them is now their #1 enemy. The WS knows it but the rest of the world finds out the hard and cruel way.

So who do you really love? The WS in front of you or your real spouse?


JMHO,
L.

I don't disagree w/ anything you said.

str8jktmn, said on another thread that SH talks about his situation on his radio show and may even include his sitch in a new book he's working on.

I'm curious as to how SH views what str8jktmn is doing by continuing to put himself out there for his WW.

~ Marsh

Hey, Str8...thank you very much for editing your post for my tired eyes.

Can you tell me what you've read about or learned about boundaries?

LA

Masochism may be another way (to look at it).

When you learn to forgive yourself for your past failures, you will be amazed at the difference in how you view life, and love specifically.

Orchid, I love my real spouse.

Marsh, it is Bill Harley, not Steve.

Weaver, masochism, maybe. But when you love someone, there is nothing you won't put yourself through, no matter how stupid it may seem to others.

Marsh, Dr. Harley thinks I am admirable, and have a TON of integrity and self-control.

LA, boundaries are something right now I am dealing with on a daily basis; boundaries for me. I guess one could say I am a codependent in an abusive relationship, but I WILL BREAK THE CYCLE.

Thanks for answering my questions.

I'm wondering where you think your weaknesses are? Where you need help? Or do you feel as though you're good to go?

Does Bill think you have a good shot at recovering your marriage?

~ Marsh

Good to hear. So why are you accomodating the WS sooo much? You think your real spouse would like that?

L.

Marsh, Dr. Harley does not, but he says there is hope. He feels that she sees the light from time to time, but her condition(bipolar, that she refuses to acknowledge or treat after she found out I am not responsible for her having it - hereditary) keeps her in the fog. He says that I am the type of person I need to be, and if there were more like me, the world would be a better place. He says that it may work out, but he is impressed with the way I have conducted my self and stuck to my values and morals despite Stacy. He also, every conversation, says she has very poor decision making skills.

My weaknesses are total. I suppose I could be called a weak person, except for the fact that I have stood by Stacy and the kids despite the situation. I am a passive person with a very violent past(abusive childhood and military) that has a volcanic temper(that I have very high control over) and an above average level of intelligence. That is a potentially dangerous combination, but I handle it quite well. I just want her to give me 6 months, during which time we BOTH work on the marriage, and if it doesn't work out, I'll give her divorce, if that's what she wishes.

Orchid, Stacy could be described, in my opinion, taking her mental disorder into consideration, as a string of Christmas tree lights. Each light is a different aspect of her personality, and when they blink off, the disorder takes control, when they blink on, it relinquishes control. Problem is, the off time is way more than the on time. I have taken into consideration that she is not well, and have afforded patience(probably too much). I believe that I shouldn't abandon her because of the illness, even though she has made some really bad decisions. I also understand that she will only allow herself to be treated on her terms. It's the old "In good times and in bad" theory I suppose.

Do you agree w/ his doubts of you recovering your marriage?

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Yes, it is always impressive to see somone be who they really are inspite of difficult circumstances.



What I really meant was, how can we help you? Do you need encouragement? Advice?

About the 6 months...Do you mean, in 6 months, if she still feels the same way she does today, you'll D her? Or do you mean, you'll wait for as long as it takes until she agrees to give you another try for 6 months, and then will D her at the end of the 6 months if that's what she wants?

~ Marsh

Marsh, here goes.

Blindly, I don't agree with his doubts. Even though he is the 'expert', I believe that everyone, especially the one whom I gave my life to, deserves another chance. God gives us the chance to do what is right with every new day.It is never too late to do what is right, and no one ever regrets doing what is right in the long run.

As for help/advice/encouragement; clues to break through her wall would be nice, however you guys wouldn't be able to help me without first 'meeting' Stacy, and that ain't gonna happen, not now anyway.

I mean that I will not agree to or participate in a divorce until I know in my heart that WE did everything we could to save/rebuild/reconcile the marriage, and nothing worked. If she wants the divorce so badly, fine. But she will only get cooperation from me if she cooperates with me. She keeps saying she wants a divorce, but doesn't take the necessary steps to get one; it's all just talk, and/or a trigger she uses to hurt me when she is in one of her 'manic' states.

So, basically, if she wants to play ball, then participate. She won't get what she says she wants from me until I get what I want from her(which after 14 years together, 10 of them married, and three children, is not too much to ask).

Hey, Str8,

I just thought of this...You hear Stacy repeatedly say she wants a divorce...what if she's trying to convey she wants to know who she is, separate from you? Like divorcing herself from you, not the marriage?

You could listen for when she says it...get the context...could be something you're saying right then, that she doesn't want to be true...not understanding she chooses every moment of her life...

Happens with enmeshment...where over the years, we don't know where we end and the other person begins...so the desire to be separate translates in our brains the all or nothing trigger...when it doesn't mean that at all.

Have you been practicing the listen and repeat? Using the "I" statements? Sure helped me to feel separate and whole, not taking on what wasn't mine.

Just a thought.

LA

When she says it, she always includes 'I told you to move on', or 'I was done back in...'. When I do the listen and repeat, she accuses me of reading too far into what she says. Dr. Harley told me and would tell you, I am extremely intelligent and she is not. My intelligence sometimes aggravates her. He said people of different levels of intelligence have a difficult time in marriage. It goes to show that the Bible has good advice when it says that we should not be 'unequally yoked'. But, I love her.

I am not the one that needs to feel separate, nor do I want to, because that is what got me here. Worrying too much about what was going on in MY life outside of OUR life helped me sooooooo much(dripping with sarcasm). I do not want to repeat my mistakes.

I don't know what to say about intelligence. I'm speechless.

I know Stacy is your equal...made by God's hands...whole and complete. She's as capable as you are...unequally yoked was as to spirituality...believers and nonbelievers.

You mean you dissect one another? Break down abilities and compare yourselves? Whoa.

Whoa.

I don't see listen and repeat as an act of intelligence...it is one of respect. You do it for yourself. You do it so you can really HEAR what she's saying, not what you've heard before, your twisted filter...actual words, new today...and that they are hers.

"I hear you desire for me to move on. Does that mean leave you or free you?"

Could you be listening and repeating with filter...why she says you read too much in? I started with the basic one for me, and we've gone to listen and repeat with filter as we've grown more intimate.

Back to separate...do you believe that marriage is a union where one person is completed by their partner? That what she lacks, you make up for, and what you lack, she makes up for?

LA