You know Noodle - I think I asked that on this very thread pages ago. He may even have replied - I wouldn't know I am ignoring him.

Yes there is. I think I answered that question earlier in this thread(or perhaps it was another one. not 100% sure).
But even more specifically in l2s's situation, i would say it is appropriate, if she gave him her full requirements for reconciliation in their marriage, and he turned them down. Simple as that.

Happy Thanksgiving to you all.

Hope everyone had a wonderful day.

I did not see my H today but talked to him and got TMs and VMs. I had a really good day. No wondering if I would say or do the wrong thing or if a member of my family would say or do the wrong thing in H's presence. I always walked on eggshells b/c I was so afraid that a family member (especially my sister) would mention something that would be a problem for me or my D. I was always afraid someone would say or do something wrong that would tick him off.

He said he was alone all day. Said he had no one who cared. His family (mom and brothers/sisters) did not ask him to come to their homes. I guess his son didn't ask him over. His daughter lives in another state now. Funny how the kids that he put me through ****** over are suddenly nowhere to be found and the family that he couldn't stand (mine) is where he wants to be. But, he hates my sister, has issues w/my niece and her husband. They all know about his As. But, he gets mad when I don't invite him to family events. How awkward would that be??? They know what he's done. They know how he treats my D. They know his kids don't have anything to do w/him unless he's doing for them.

He tried to make me feel guilty all day. Said he rode around town trying to find a restaurant serving turkey but ended up eating a sausage dog and spent the whole day by himself. Maybe he did but I have my doubts. But, what am I supposed to do? He has alienated my family with his actions. They can't stand to be around him b/c of what he's done and how he has treated me verbally and physically.

He told me that he will not be alone at Christmas. Meaning that he will find someone who wants to be w/him. B/c I didn't have the phone on me all day and missed his calls he accused me of being w/someone. I told him he should have called the house. He said he didn't want to b/c of my family. But, if we worked things out, he would have to be around my family. I'm not giving them up for him just like he's not giving his kids up for me.

I see no hope for this situation. I had a really good day. I did not miss him b/c he always made family functions stressful. He's very nice nasty about food. If he doesn't know who cooked something he won't eat. He watches everyone like a hawk and if he sees someone do the least little thing that he thinks is wrong, he just won't eat. He's very obsesive where that's concerned.

I want to resolve this mess I find myself in. I know that it is going to be painful no matter which direction I take. Frankly, I can't imagine going back to him. I believe we have allowed too much to go on and going back would now be impossible. I can't imagine anyone making a marriage work after such a long separation and so many things happening. I just don't see it.

Well, tomorrow is church. He has already started giving me a hard time about going. Today, he called and asked if I wanted him to bring his cell phone bill by for me to look at it. I told him not to. What would be the point? He told me he has been calling OW and XW. Of course there were legitimate reasons why (in his mind). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just don't get it. I didn't have an A but, I'm not supposed to go to church b/c I talked to a guy there. But, he can talk to OW and XW and make excuses as to why he has done that and that's okay.

I read an old post from a couple of years ago about PA traits and so many fit my H. A few fit me as well, i.e. conflict avoidance.

There's really no solution to this problem other than D. I don't see anything changing to the extent that I could trust again or make him happy. I don't think I could put the second A behind me b/c I know that he considered himself in love with her. I find that hard to get past. He intended to D me to be w/her but, for some reason, the A fell apart.

The problem I'm having is letting go. I don't know how. I don't know how to separate myself from his life and just let go. I don't need him to do anything for me. I am capable of taking care of myself. It's the emotional attachment that I'm having a hard time breaking despite all that he has done and has done to me.

Any suggestions for how to take that final step?

Tell this loser what you expect, a timeline for doing it and if he doesn't then lose him.

Yes - change your phone number so he can't harrass you. Check in with your attorney's secretary for a status report on the progress of the divorce. Remain in contact with the counselors at the shelter.

And be prepared to file a restraining order and move.

Your husband creeps me out - I hope you have given your phone number to someone here, because I personally would worry if time went by without you continuing your thread - I don't want to see you become one of those murder statistics - victims of domestic violence that escalated!!

Let him know that since he is not able to be a supportive, caring and loving H, you have to turn to a 'group' of people for support. That includes your church. If he has a problem with that, he needs to go to church and let them know. Then notify your minister that your H may show up. That way, they will be prepared.

He is bullying you. Of course you can't stay M to a man who has an A (ea or pa doesn't matter it is still an A). When he accuses you, show him the mirror so he can reflect back his words to him. I actually did that to my Ws because he accused me of having an A. I agreed it certainly was possible to have an A since he wasn't fulfilling my needs but 'at this time', I am choosing NOT to. After that his babble lost strength and he eventually gave up accusing me of having an A. I let him know that while he may be wondering if I am having an A, I know for sure he is so now what/!??!? I threw it back in his court.....ALL of it.

You w/b ready to move on when your mind and heart are in sync. Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. It will come. You just have to allow the time for your mind and heart to sync up. It takes time, you can't rush it. When it does, nothing will stop you from moving forward.

JMHO,
L.

I had a typical Sunday. Started out w/multiple phone calls about me going to church. Told me that I constantly do things to intentionally hurt him. Said that me going to church is like sticking a knife in his heart. He said that I was the one that “tramped” around at church. So, I ended up not going b/c I didn’t want to face the consequences (his nastiness)if I did.

Told me on Saturday that I could see his last cell phone bill. Told me that I would see phone calls to OW and XW but that those were a lot less than they had been. That was supposed to make me feel………… what?

Told me by VM yesterday that the OWs daughter called him to ask him if it was OK that her mother call him to ask him a question. He told her OK. So, the OW called him to ask him if he thought his son or brother would want some furniture she was getting rid of. I told him if that would have been me I would have paid dearly for that phone call. His response was “I didn’t know you were close to OMs kids”. No, I’m not but, that was not the point. But, goes to show that he is still close to her kids.

Had several calls and arguments throughout the day. Same old same old. Says I hurt him intentionally. Says that when he tells me something he likes or doesn’t like I just get worse with it. He apparently has no idea how much damage his abuse has caused to my desire to be anywhere near him. He says he is willing to get counseling and is willing to write NC letters to the OW and XW. But, I simply don’t trust him. This morning, he said he wants to be w/someone that loves him and that trusts him and that wants to be w/him. So, I guess he plans to immediately start dating as soon as the papers are signed. I have no doubt that he is probably already talking to his next GF. Told me the other day that he doesn’t plan to spend Christmas alone. Of course, he wasn’t alone last Christmas. Instead of being w/me, and I did ask him to, he chose to spend it w/the OW.

It hurts to think that he only thinks he needs to see a counselor if I say there’s a chance. I pity the next woman in his life. Or maybe the next one will be the right one. Who knows. I just don’t know how to let go. He is constantly trying to play on my sympathy and it works. Told me last night that one of our employees just quit. Now he’s gone from 3 to 1. Of course his son is back again. This makes about the 5th time that he’s gone and come back. Goes b/c he gets ticked off about something and then comes back when he needs something or sees yet again that his dad will pay him much more than anyone else and that no one else will put up w/his smart mouth like his dad will.

Oh well, just rambling. Thanks to all for hanging in there w/me. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving.

sounds like something a typical BS might say to a WS.
"I want you back, but only if you can love me and trust me and want to be with me again"

It's the instinctive reaction from people.
It's only after we do research, that we learn that the love and the trust and the desire, come back AFTER lots of work... so it's the commitment up front to DO the work, that makes it all happen.


And I think this sounds like a typical reaction of a WS when confronted with "shape up, or I'll divorce you". The WS does not want to believe that the BS actually would like to be reconciled with their spouse first and formost.

Maybe my similies are bad. I apologise in advance.
I just wanted to say that, as hurtful and creepy as he has been... I think that he does want you back.

I’ve thought long and hard the last couple of days about what I would like in a marriage/relationship. I want to get and give these things, They are:
God
Love
Commitment
Trust
Honesty
Fidelity
Common interests and goals
Ability to share my past without fear of reprisal
Someone to share my future with
Someone that I can feel safe with
Someone that I can pamper and can be pampered by in return; romantic

I have none of the above with my husband. He is no longer in church; says he intends to get back in church but hasn’t gone, except for a handful of times, in about 4.5 years.

He says he loves me but he abuses me and threatens me when I don’t conform to his way of thinking.

He broke the commitment to our marriage in the first year and, in my opinion, a number of times since then.

I don’t trust him. I did trust him to begin with but he broke that trust. I always beat myself up over things I had done early on (lying about my past the biggest) but, when I listened to the tapes of him talking to OW and others, I heard just how easily the lies rolled off his tongue and I now question everything he ever told me.

Common interests – We do have a lot of common interests. We don’t seem to have common goals. Thought we did but never saw evidence of that.

Ability to share my past – I foolishly shared my past before I knew how nasty and vindictive he could be. He has used my past against me as leverage to get what he wanted since day one.

I can’t imagine a future with him. I would live in fear of another affair, another threat of suicide to get his way.

I did pamper my H. In some ways, he pampered me early on. But, I always felt that I did everything for him. Did everything around the house. Planned all the birthday parties and did all the shopping for all holidays. Paid the bills. Even cut grass and washed the cars. Molly maid to the extreme.

He is pushing me now to go to the attorney and get it over with. Says he wants it to work but that it isn’t going to because I can’t get past what he has done in order to work on the marriage. In some ways that is true.

But, he has maintained contact w/the OW and XW and I can’t imagine getting past all that. I don’t know how people get past the embarrassment of what their spouse has done in affair relationships. I know it’s not my fault but a part of my anger and resistance is due to people knowing what went on and thinking I’m a fool to go back and/or put up with what he’s done.

I need to heal from all that has occurred. I need to get back to the person I used to be, not the secretive, suspicious, lying person that I’ve become. I don’t like that part of me. I was always happy and enjoyed life. Now, I feel like a spy and I hate the secretiveness by which I now live my life.

Sounds like a "textbook case" of when to use Plan B. Except that it should generally be used before your "love bank balance" becomes negative like yours has.

Sounds about right to me.

I dont know whether your marriage is fixable. I just know that you're the one controlling the ending of it.

Yes, L2S, you're the one in control of ending it...LEGALLY. HE ended long ago when he became physically abusive to you, then, only topped that off with some infidelity.

Keep moving forward, Honey! The sooner you get out of this, the better. And the sooner you will be free of this.

(((L2S)))

PS...Hope you had a nice T-Day, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The only way a mentally ill person who enjoys the twistedness of mental illness - wallows in it, etc. as your husband does - the only way that person gets treatment for it, is to lose that which is dear to him.

I just don't know if you are dear enough for him to take that step. Obviously you're dear enough that he's working very hard to keep you in his grasp - and it worked on Sunday to keep you away from worshipping you Father in Heaven. When your husband will bear no rival - not even God, there is a problem. But he's banking on your mental illness to keep you trapped in his psychosis and neurosis.

Are you yourself that seriously mentally ill to stay with him under current conditions?

Nothing changes when everything remains the same.

Can you live with that?

If you can't, then you change! Change your number, get the RO and Plan B like there is no other option to saving his or your life - because really - there's not.

No, I can't live like that and that's why I haven't returned in all this time (3 yrs in Feb). I did return a couple of times but only for a week or two and then only took enough clothes to last for that amount of time. He would say that he was ending it if I didn't come home so I went just to keep him from filing.

I have never wanted to go back in all this time.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME that I can't get this over with? I really HATE myself right now. I HATE the place I'm in. I want my life back. I want a house of my own. When my daughter comes home from school I want her to be able to put on sweats, get a snack and relax. Instead, she goes to his house and waits on me. He picks apart everything she does and doesn't do. Granted she can be messy but she's 15. It's her job. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I want out but I can't bring myself to take the final step. I think it's b/c he plays on my sympathy. If he doesn't have me, he has no one. Now, I know that's not true; he proved that last year when he spent Thanksgiving and Christmas w/the OW (only I didn't know it then). I know now that he picked a fight to justify not coming to be w/us at my family's home.

I want out.

I want out.

I want out.

I don't know how to get it over with. I dread the drama to come after I tell him that I've sent the papers to the attorney. He has been begging me to do so but, I know that when I do, he'll start with the threats again: suicide, telling my past, throwing my stuff in the street, etc.

you need to break the addiction.

you need to have no contact, get through withdrawal...then you will begin to appreciate the peace in your life.

don't take the calls. you need to shut him out completely!

I know you're right. I just have such a hard time taking that final step b/c I know it's final. Whenever I see glimpses of the man I knew and loved, it breaks my heart. At those moments it's easy to get sucked back in. Right now, his brother is sick and an older cousin is dying of cancer.

He says he will have to face all this alone b/c he can't count on me. Encourages me to file b/c he doesn't want to be alone.

I know it's right but, the junk I deal w/from my past keeps me in this situation; a slave to him. I have a hard time w/boundaries and saying "no". I have a hard time breaking it off. I knew it was the rgiht thing to do w/my first H and we both went to attorney together and signed. There wasn't any going back. There wasn't any gameplaying. I just wanted it over and so did he.

Now, he plays on me and I know that the suicide and exposure threats are coming. I want to move forward but am motionless.

Uhh.. Life2short... lexxxy didnt say anything about "that final step". She didnt mention divorce.
And hopefully, you'll notice neither was kaylaAndy

Techie,
Yes. I did notice that. I also noticed the dozens of other posters over the months I've been here that said the D word. They are in addition to:
my family (including my D)
two IC counselors
a few friends

I haven't taken this lightly hence the 2.9 year separation.

I appreciate your stance on D. I hope for your sake your situation ends well. My situation may be different from yours.

Has your wife ever:
threatened suicide to keep you from filing
threatened to have a "tell all" session about your teenage past with everyone you know
threatened to throw your possessions away or in the front yard
threatened to have another affair to manipulate you
pushed you, pulled your hair, slammed your leg against a car door, slapped you, thrown stuff at you
had multiple affairs that she is still lying about
put everyone and everything above you

If she has and you still stay you and I have some major issues my friend. I need out. I want out.

I have to watch everything I say and do. I bought a pair of boots the other day. Then, found a pair I liked better and bought those. So, the first pair is in my car to return. My H saw them yesterday and asked what they were. I told him. He got mad. He got mad. HE GOT MAD.

Said that he asked me if I would wear a pair of boots. I said no so now he thinks I bought them b/c someone else wanted me to have some. I bought them b/c I wanted them. I said no to him b/c our conversation centered around boots and his OW wears them. That really ticked me off b/c I felt that he was saying he wanted me to wear them b/c she did. The nerve.

Anyway, I appreciate what you're trying to do. But, I'm not rushing to D. But, I need my life back. A plan B will not work w/this man. In my opinion, he is dangerous to me and my D. I don't trust him and don't know what he would do if I did go dark but not D. Not sure I want to find out.

I do know that he would have another A. So, in my case, what would be the point of a Plan B instead of Plan D?

if he is dangerous to you and your daughter WHY HAVEN'T YOU ENDED THIS???

Every conversation you describe is manipulation and control and abuse.

If you are afraid of Plan B because of what he might do -- then you should not only Plan B him for LIFE, but also divorce him and protect yourself with restraining orders and remove yourself from his ability to contact you.

His affairs (past or future) are the LEAST of your problems!

Your safety (and especially your daughters) should be your primary concern. Find a safe place, find resources and support, get a plan together -- then disappear!
Break your addiction to him and his drama.

If you stop talking to him -- he won't be able to threaten and control you with:
"threatened suicide to keep you from filing
threatened to have a "tell all" session about your teenage past with everyone you know
threatened to throw your possessions away or in the front yard
threatened to have another affair to manipulate you
pushed you, pulled your hair, slammed your leg against a car door, slapped you, thrown stuff at you
had multiple affairs that she is still lying about
put everyone and everything above you"

Stop caring about all of that -- its NOT YOUR PROBLEM! Its HIS!
Make an escape Plan, get safe, then go dark.