Plan B for life will be hard.

We have family in common.

I think he's dangerous to me only b/c I allow it. He knows what buttons to push and what chains to yank.

I allow him to manipulate me and make me feel sorry for him. What I need to do is focus on all that he has done to get us to where we are. I need to remember the tapes I heard w/him talking to OW and XW. Need to remember catching him w/OW. Need to remember the threats, the abuse, the names. Need to focus on the bad.

I know he's manipulating me and only I can stop it.

Thanks.

Umm... let's be realistic here.
if he's really THAT dangerous.. a divorce won't protect you any more than plan B.

If he's truely THAT dangerous, then you had better be prepated to basically "witness relocate" yourself, move, and never talk to anyone you know ever again.

if you dont think he's that dangerous... then you're making excuses for yourself to not give plan B a try.

FYI: my wife has done approximately half of your list of things over the course of our marriage.

And let's not forget the death threat, of thinking about killing you in your sleep. Yep...I'd say he's "THAT" dangerous. No "if's" about it. (Even if he didn't really mean it, the statement, alone, is chilling.) No Plan B can help that train of thought, nor should it. That's as "realistic" as it can get.

Divorcing him may not protect you in all aspects, but it sure will in other areas (that are not protected while you remain married to him.)

And there's always the law, R/Os and ways of protecting yourself physically and legally. Don't stay with him on the mere idea that there wouldn't be any point in divorcing if it won't make a difference in my (our) safety, anyway. It would make a HUGE difference along with reclaiming your identity as a HUMAN!

Leave him, L2S. Life IS too short, and you deserve so much better than this!

(((L2S)))

Dangerous.............

Means many things to many people.

I don't trust my husband. Standing in front of him looking at him I don't trust him. I don't trust him w/my heart, my future.

Do I think he would kill me? Probably not.
Do I think he would continue to kill my self esteem, my self worth, my spirit, my life, definitely yes.

I don't think he understands the harm his words have done.

He says that seeing me in a church parking lot talking to a guy hurt him just as much as his affairs and other inappropriate Rs have hurt me. He says that I couldn't have hurt him more if I had slept w/someone else.

He does not trust me and picks apart everything I say and do. That gets really, really old.

My family wants nothing to do w/him. They think he has really pulled me down in many ways. They say they never see me smile or be happy when he's around b/c I'm walking on eggshells the entire time, either afraid of what I may say or do that will have consequences later or afraid that my family may say or do something that will get me in trouble later.

My H misses nothing and stores everything. He takes it all in and says nothing but, later on, a day later or a month later he will regurgitate something that was said or done and it will bite me in the backside. He stews on it and mulls it over and turns it all different directions and then springs it on me. I never know when my words will be used against me in WH's court of law. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I really, honestly want to be married. But, and this is a BIG BUT, I don't want to be w/someone w/whom I can't be myself. I don't want to walk on eggshells. I don't want to deal w/his phobias about handwashing and not walking on the carpet w/shoes on, not letting an eating utensil scrape across a tooth, etc.

If it was just the infidelity to deal with, I've dealt w/that before. But, when I add in everything else, it makes it really hard to see how we could overcome every obstacle. They range from family issues, infidelity, money issues, step kid issues, church issues, etc. Then, add to that the psychological stuff w/the abuse and the threats of suicide, etc.

The plate is so full that the stuff is falling onto the floor. I don't know how to get past all this. What part of the elephant do you eat first? And how do I take my child back into that situation?

L2S,

I don't eat elephant, so not sure if I can help but I'll try. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What you have written is quite telling. That is why recovery requires some to carry plan B around with them long after the NC.

He has other issues which made the foundation for the A but those issues still exist.

He doesn't sound like a happy camper. My H isn't either. However, I can't make him be happy (I did demand he show his 'happy side' while in the A - which is impossible - LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> and I knew it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />).

Now there's a tool. It c/b used more of a protection tool for you.

When my Xws talked stupid like yours did (your talking to people was worse than his A), I told my then Xws that if he is that warped and can't understand normal, then he really has a problem. Yep, I reverse babbled my way out and gave him back his guilt. I told him that my speaking to people is part of my life it was not A related but if he thought so, he can invest the time like I did to prove the A. Until then he needed to stop wasting my time with his mindless accsations.

See the WS in him still wants to hurt you. The trick it NOT to let him. If you would like to discuss this further, let me know. My e-mail is **edit** and we can setup a call time. No pressure, just thought it may help.

I got free weekend minutes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


take care,
L.

L2S,
Why do you feel you need confirmation?
Your WH clearly has serious mental health issues - its fairly clear that its been a longstanding thing, probably from adolescence.
You do know that your life cannot continue this way and it is unhealthy for you and your D.
Why do you continue the dance with him?
Why do you continue to take his calls, listen to his threats, why do you even care?
I truly believe that you are addicted to the drama.
You are used to this kind of rollercoaster life that has been the norm and with you for 10 years??
You have forgotten what peace is.
Orchid, Lexxy and techie have at times hit the nail on the head.
Why do you still engage with him in anything other than a business sense?
Why do you take his calls on a saturday or early Sunday KNOWING full well that its all going to be the same yada yada.

The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again but expecting a different outcome.

You have not given him a list of what he would need to do to repair the marriage - you say because he would laugh at it, throw it back at you etc.
I feel its because deep down you know that he wont change through confrontation, nor for someone else. He needs to WANT to change. You wont give him the list, so that he can then say no, if he says no, then you can say fine, our marriage is over proceed to D - and he stops waffling about doing anything, anything, anything, to save the marriage.

Or is it because you are scared that he will try to do the work?
Be honest with yourself L2S, if you are scared that he will try, but you cant go through with it, then accept that in you and proceed to D. As in earlier posts, you already have had many valid grounds for D.

At the moment you are enabling him. You are enabling his behaviours to continue. It is very true that he will likely only want to change through falling hard, losing everything.
I read on another thread how someone said, who they felt were enabling their WH's bad behaviours that they were standing in the way of Gods plan for him to fall hard, so that he may be able to learn and grow.
I think you said that you had/are in IC. I suggest you go back, look up co-dependance.
You cant keep having wishy washy boundaries, not telling him what you need (which probably includes him in IC for 6 months before you even considered reconcilling - he needs to work on his issues first)
Take back the power of your life L2S.

Personally, I would have been long gone. NC would be rigid with this man. He has clearly had many chances to grow as a person and has chosen the wrong path. They are his choices to make.

He Needs to want to change for himself, and to realise how destructive he is to the people around him.

Orchid,
Just got back in town and saw your post. Will email you when I have a few extra minutes. Thanks for the invite to do so.

Stargirl,
I carry my own baggage around; left overs from childhood. That's why I allow him to manipulate me and I allow him to walk ... well, I started to say I allow him to walk over my boundaries but......... in reality.......... I don't have any where he's concerned. He can do pretty much whatever he wants and I still come back for more.

I think I am afraid in a way that he will say OK to the things that I would want him to do. I think one that he would balk on would be SF. He's said that he would go to counseling and would have NC w/OW and XW but, he also says that he's told them there's no chance at a physical R w/either so he sees no point. He still has contact w/them.

I'm really afraid that too much has happened for me to care enough to go home. I really can't see me back in the house w/him. I just don't know how to let go and move forward.

This is a bad time of year to be moving forward w/D in my opinion. But, what's worse I guess.......... being married but not together or working toward a new life.

I'm so mixed up over all this. I never thought I'd be here again and really hate all that has happened.

Yesterday buried my niece's mother-in-law; we all have close family ties.

I also talked to the nurse at the nursing home where my mom is. Had a CT scan last week and the result is an appt this morning with an Oncologist. I won't say the "C" word. We will deal w/whatever happens. God is in control.

Yesterday, I left work to go get the CT scan and report, look for a chair for my mom that she likes (hers is broken) and pick up a baby shower cake for a shower later in the afternoon. I took care of it for my office but left early due to the funeral.

Knowing all that's going on he had the nerve to accuse me of leaving work in order to meet someone. Then, after the funeral, he accused me of meeting someone b/c I didn't go back to my niece's house. She had a house full of people, many of whom they only see occasionally. They know how I feel and that I'll do anything to help. So, instead of going there, I went to another store to look for chair. Then, p/u my daughter after school, then picked up my niece's daughter and helped her get homework done and gave her a bath so my niece wouldn't have to worry w/it.

So, he accused me of meeting someone twice yesterday. I told him last night that I never accuse him like he does me but he has more opportunity than I do and I have more reason to question his whereabouts.

Same old, same old.

Forgot to say that when I told him I don't accuse him he said "I know". Then, he said that he does it b/c he loves me so much and wants to be w/me but that I go out of my way for everyone else but basically won't give him the time of day.

True.....

But......

My family doesn't curse me, threaten me, abuse me or cheat on me. I like the way they express their love to me a whole lot better! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's a continuing saga.

Today, my sister and I took our mom to the Oncology appt. Ovarian cancer.

But, it's well defined, encapsulated and the MD feels he can get it all. So, again, God is in control.

Well, H asks if I'm going to church tonight and I said "yes". He said he understood if I felt that church was where I needed to be. Was very nice and supportive.

After church phone rings. It's him.

H: Did you go to church?
Me: Yes.
H: Good. Hope you had a good time w/your BF. So, you know what you need to take care of tomorrow (meaning taking the paperwork to the attorney).

He went on to say that he had avoided OW and XW. Said if I saw his phone bill I would see "hardly any" calls to anyone he shouldn't be talking to. Went on to say I need to get my stuff out of his house. Said I could expect that he would resume talking to OW and XW. Said I didn't care how much I hurt him by going to church.

I pray this is the right thing to do.

I just want some peace in my life right now.

L2S,

Sounds like he is reaching deep down in his pants to try to find dirt and all he keeps pulling up is his own self made crap.

Well you can't compete against a fantasy (even if it is about you seeing someone who isn't there). So don't even try. Instead when he babbles, just give him that disgusted look and walk away. He wants to get a reaction from you. He must have it to survive. Yet you don't want that part of his to survive so suffocate it. Don't give life to the WS attitude.

His withdrawals are painful for all. He may begin to pick on others. Most won't take kindly to what you have put up with. Don't protect him from it. Just step back and take care of yourself.

Sounds like you've got your hands full with your neice and mom.

Hugz,
L.

Left 3 VMs throughout the night.

Said I need to have someone pick my daughter up from school on Friday; she can't come to house (no explanation as to why).

Said I hurt him incredibly last night by going to church. Said he had done everything I asked him to do (guess the "hardly any" phone calls qualifies as "done everything") and I still rub my b/f in his nose.

Said he will always love me, I will always have his heart, that he loves me more than he's ever loved anyone but, he must move on to protect himself from any more hurt. He can't take it anymore.

My intent is to send final documents to attorney this morning.

Please tell me if I'm doing the wrong thing. I don't think I am.

Why haven't you changed your phone number?

There is no love in these words - only button-pushing manipulation designed to separate you from any means of support that would make you strong enough to cut him off. His fantasy that you are meeting someone at church that is a threat to him is true in a way - as you stay in contact with spiritual resources, you have the means and ability to discern that he is incredibly abusive and don't have to put up with that treatment. So yes, there is another man - and more than a man - so to speak. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L2S,

I don't post often, but over the last couple days I have looked over most of your saga. I feel compelled to post to you. Please sever your ties with this man. He does nothing but manipulate you. File the papers, change your phone number and get off the ride! Between the verbal and escalating physical abuse he is handing you, you must get away from it. It's clear if you step back and look at the entire year (almost) you've been on the boards that he is not changing.

I wish you peace and happiness in your future, but please get out of the cycle. You can break it!

xring

I will only say one thing, and it isnt even "dont file". Just a closing commentary, as it were:

If he was going to church by himself, and you suspected that he was using it to meet someone there, and it had been going on for months... most people would support you in absolutely demanding that he change church. Reguardless of whether or not you have proof that something concrete was going on. (they'd ask you to GET proof, sure, but people would still support you in sticking to it). Even if it was irrational on your part, it would be the caring thing for him to do as a husband, to change church.

This calling you and bugging you about church, seems to be what is aggravating you about him the most now, and prompting you to file. I think you have chosen to leave it that way, for that very purpose.


Similarly with your not changing phone numbers. You should have done so. you had MULTIPLE people now suggesting this route. But you didnt... you deliberately left an avenue for him to get at you, so that it would make you angry.
You have set this ending up for yourself. If you're determined to end it this way, you will make it happen one way or another. Just dont continue deluding yourself about why things are this way now. You chose to allow them to be this way, rather than take steps to improve them.

I'm so sorry about your mom.


Change churches. Simple as that.
You play a big role in this ongoing drama.
If you are going to stay in contact with him -- remove his one issue, that he constantly uses to provoke you with.

In order for me to change churches, my daughter would need to change as well. I would not be able to get her to one and me to another. She is involved in church and I want to keep it that way. My family goes there as well and they are my support group.

Techie-
I won't even say your wrong. Maybe there are some elements of truth in what you say. But, I kept hoping that things would change on his part: that he would stop the abuse, stop the contact w/OW, etc. He never did. He just kept doing what he had been doing all along.

His contacting me does not make me angry. What he says when HE gets angry is a problem.

So, I don't see any hope. Those closest to the two of us don't either. They don't see him being faithful. We own a business that puts him in contact with new women on a daily basis. I have no doubt that if we reconciled he would cheat again.

I want it to be different but, I have to resign myself to the fact that it is what it is. The fact that he cheated before our first anniversary is weighing heavily in this decision making. I now see him as a serial cheater. I don't think he wants to change. I want the drama to end and the only way I know to end it w/o any further harm to myself, my finances, my daughter is D.

Lexxy,
It isn't just one issue. Even if I don't go to church........

If I leave work to take care of work related stuff or just to take care of stuff at lunch so I don't have to do it after work, I get accused of meeting someone.

He tells me that someone has told him that I am hitting on some guy at work. I work at a large institution w/about 6,000 people. In my job I must contact maintenance guys, etc. in order to do my job. I have never hit on anyone at work. I don't talk to anyone except out of necessity. I am guessing he's just making this up b/c I can't think of anyone who would tell him such a thing.

If he calls me and I'm on the phone, he automatically accuses me of talking w/another man. If I am alone at home where I stay w/family members, he automatically accuses me of being w/someone or talking w/someone.

So, just b/c I eliminate church (I think I've gone 4-5 times in the last 3 months) it will just be something else. I suppose I should quit work, too? Should I turn in my cell phone and ask that the phone be taken out of my office?

The church thing won't stop him.

The Word is "projecting".

He is projecting these accusations toward you because these are the things that he has/is actively participating in. In his accusations toward you, he is relieving himself of the shame that his actions have caused and continue to cause. He can even excuse his own intolerable behavior if he accuses you of those very same things.

Church is threatening to him because Church gives a person strength. With that strength comes Power. He doesn't dare let that happen. A strong you doesn't allow him the power to treat as he has/is doing.

It is a sick sick cycle that has been allowed to grow. It needs to stop. The 2+ years that you have been separated have done nothing to fix the situation.

Your children (especially daughters) will learn that this is "normal" in a relationship. We all know that it isn't.

So, it is up to you. You have all the POWER in the world to end this.

committed

Committed
In this case you must be right. I can't think of any other reason for his accusations. I have never met any man anywhere. I rarely go out to lunch and, if I do, it's to run errands or to meet (very seldom) female friends for lunch.

I'm not talking to anyone. There's no one I'm interested in. I wouldn't do that still being married.

I know that he is accusing me of things that he did and is probably still doing. I faxed the changes to the settlement agreement to the attorney's office this morning. Haven't heard back from them yet.

I want it but I don't want it if that makes any sense. I see no action on his part that would give me hope. When I think back on all that has happened, I can't see any other course. If it was just one thing to overcome it would maybe be doable but, there are several major issues. And, when I think about the pain I went through w/the first A and now he's done it again, I believe it would happen over and over again. I might never know it but, I think he would cheat again.

So, waiting on the attorney to call me with documents to sign.

He doesn't want my daughter at the house tomorrow. Not sure why. No sure what's going on.