COL,


This is pefectly acceptable for someone in your shoes.
You have legit questions, many are here who can help answer.


You are well within your rights on this postion. I do suspect it may take a while for your H to see this. It did for me.

There are other issues you bring up that I will comment on, but my REAL job seems to think I owe my time to them right now :-)

Start reading the book (Surviving the Affair), more of what I and others say will start to make more sence when you have a context to draw from.

Bottom line is this, you are normal in your thinkng for what has just happened. My gut feel is that you two can pull this out and keep your family together.

TH

I did order the book and can't wait to get it and read it. We live in such a small town there is now book store here I would have to drive at least 40 miles so I ordered it off the sight and I also ordered her needs his needs I think that what its called hopefully these can be starting tools to help my marriage survive. I hope I will get the time in the next couple of days to talk to him and see where his head is at this time. I really wish that he would just come home after work today and say look I talked to her and told her that I love you and the kids and want to work out my marriage. I want him to say that he told her they will work out anything having to do with the child once a DNA test is done. I just know this is something he would never just do on his own. He doesn't realize that it would help me feel more secure that what he is telling me is true that he really does want to be with me. He is still in the mode where he just wants to avoid everything and doesn't want to talk about it but it's there and it's true and it needs to be delt with. Thanks for the comments so far it really does help to hear from all of you. Keep the comments coming. Thanks again.


COL

Good! I would still take a look to make sure. People can surprise you.


Well, people in A can be creative how they communicate. So long as he still works anywhere around her, it’s bad news. I DON’T CARE WHAT HE SAYS. He may not be tempted right now, but give it time and he WILL BE.


Others are going to have to chime in on this one. I don’t have a clue as to what to tell you on this.


This is why a NO-CONTACT letter delivered by someone else can be an effective tool.
The OW is going to “choose not to know” until it is spelled out in a letter!



Well at least he is saying the right things. Whether he feels it yet is to be determined.
My guess would be that he is struggling to figure out how to “do the right thing” and give your M “one more try”. This was most of what kept me at home. I felt like I didn’t give my M a fair chance.



You don’t. At least not yet; but again, he is still at home and claims to want to be with you. It sounds like he is spending too much time out of the house “working”. Whether
he really needs to work this much or not, it has a negative impact on your family right now.


Humm……. Thinking………..

Ya, this is a problem and why NO-CONTACT needs to be established NOW. Sorry COL but he is blowing smoke up your dress. Whether he wants to face it or not, he is going to have to deal with withdrawal. It ‘s feels similar to a junkie getting off the “junk”.

The book will explain this better.


I bet she does, she is in worse shape than he is. She just got divorced and now faces the reality of losing a man she “loves”.


Good!

Let him read the book himself. My wife wanted to read it together but it sunk in more when I read it my self and had chances to ponder what was being said.
It’s easier to do that when your W is not asking about “WHAT ARE YOU THINKING”.

Let him discuss what he is thinking after he has a chance to think about what he has read.


I’m not so quick you can ‘get HIM” to do anything. You can ASK him. If you do it in a RESPECTFUL tone, your odds are MUCH better. Remember, he is thinking, “How can I be happy in this M”.


Some have done it, but it ‘s rare. Most likely, over the long haul, YOU are going to have to deal with OW.


I know I will take some heat for this advice, but I will say it anyway.
I know you want to “connect” with him by having “conversation”.
But I suspect you two have issues understanding what each other needs.
I would avoid the DEEP conversation until you have read the book. You can tell him all you want about how you need him to do this and that, but at this point I am not sure if it will do any good.

He needs to feel that home is a ‘safe” place to be. This will surprise him and also make him see you in a different light. He knows he messed up, but if all of a sudden you spend some QUIET time with him, even something simple like watching TV without talking but cuddled up to him. It will register to him that you are a Loving Wife . ( I am referring to recreational time). I would urge you to avoid conversation about OW, OC, or anything that gets you both tense or worked up. I am not saying do this forever, but before you start laying out what you need, you need to understand what is going on.

For now just keep it to” I hope you did not talk to OW today, it is vital to our M” and leave it at that. You could throw in “when your ready to tell me your thoughts”, I am here to listen. If he does talk, then conversation is fair game. Do your best not to condemn him.

I know this may not seem fair; you have been drug through the mud. But trust me when I say this, it will help get your H thinking that YOU are a WONDRFULL W. That he CAN BE HAPPY WITH YOU. His turn will come when you gain skills and some of the FOG has lifted.



The book will do a much better job of explaining “how the spark was lost” than I could ever hope to.


The good news is you can! The two of you are just lacking the skills.
He also needs to know how important it is to start NO-CONTACT now.


The short answer is to FAKE IT!

Your H feels most loved by you when are physical with him. To him this will register as LOVE. He does not register Love in the same way you do. Affection and loving words do not cut it. Their nice, but not equated to love like they are for you. MOST men feel this way.

An old saying I heard a few times over was this:

If a man wants access to a woman’s body, he must touch her soul.
If a woman wants access to man soul, she must touch his body.

To most men SEX equal ACCEPTANCE and LOVE. Often he will think, if she is willing to have sex with me “SHE MUST THINK I AM OK” that “I AM LOVABLE”.

When he feels LOVED in this way, you are much more likely to get access to his heart. I suspect that is what you really want. I am also pretty sure that is what he REALLY wants too!

I know considering what has happened, this may be the last thing you want to do. However, you are your H’s only ethical means of sexual gratification. Trust when I say, it is always on his mind. You don’t want him to have this NEED when he is around the OW. He will be MUCH less vulnerable to her charms if this NEED is taken care of by you. HE WILL FEEL LOVED BY YOU and have no NEED for her.

When he trusts you to fill this emotional need, his dependence on OW will go down dramatically.

TH

Hey TH--

Sorry for the threadjacking but I wanted to say thanks for what you said to COL--it struck a cord with me too and I'm going to use it.

COL--I don't post often but I've been following your thread. I'm thinking and praying for you. ((((hugs))))

HU2006

Thanks for the advise. I hope that he will want to read the book as well. He is not the book reading type but hopefully he will be willing to do it to save our marriage. I can't wait to get it. I also hope that he will be willing to write a letter. I just can't stop thinking that he is still playing both of us. I just think that he really doesn't want to hurt anyone more than what is done but he doesn't see that it hurts me to think they still have something going on. I know that they haven't been sleeping together because I know where he is all the time now but that's just not the couple that we are. I have always trusted him with everything. He has even told me of other times that he was deployed that girls have tried to sleep with him and he didn't. One girl even went so far as to get in bed with him and he told her to get out. Why did he have to ruin the trust that we had. I ever wanted to spy or know where he was all the time and now my life is consumed with that kind of stuff. It sucks.. Ok, the other day he went to get dinner and some movies. While he was gone I checked our cell phone account to see how many minutes he had used. When he came back I checked again and he had used quite a few minutes. I asked him who he talked to and he said noone the only people he ever talks to is me or one of his friends mike. So I wrote to sprint to ask for the numbers that had been called and there was 7 or 8 calls to her number. They were mostly 1 minute but there was one that was 4 minutes and one that was 13 minutes. So I confronted him and said why did you lie I know that you called her. He said he was just calling her to make sure everything was ok and she never answered. ( She had gone into preterm labor at 23 weeks) So I asked why the 4 minute and 13 minute call he said he didn't talk to her and maybe the phone had dialed in his pocket by accident because the phone does do that but it would have dialed the last number called which would have been me. I just don't see what he is still trying to hide. I just don't believe that he didn't talk to her and why won't he just admit it? I rally hope we can make it through this I just feel like I am starting to love him less and less. Sometimes I think I might be so much happier to just start over and find someone who does love me and can be the husband I deserve... But on the same hand I do love him we have 2 beautiful children and such a long history together and that makes me want to work it out.. I just hope he is willing to make some sacrifices as well beacuse I will not and cannot do this alone.. We are going on a date tomorrow night so hopefully it will give us some time to just enjoy eachothers company. I am not going to talk ablout the situation at all. I do however want us to talk tonight because it has been a couple of days since I have asked him to consider the things that are important to me now and I really want to talk about it. Also I want him to tell me about the phone calls. Hopefully we won't fight. I am trying but is he? Thanks again to everyone for posting It does help so much to know that ther are some people who care and have been here too... And to TH it really helps me a ton to see your point of view. Thanks..

confused, he is still in the affair and he is still in the mindset of a WS. He will continue to be until total NC is established.

COL,

He did not have to. He was looking for Emotional Needs to be meet and found it easier with OW than with you. This does not mean that you did not love him and were not willing to do anything for him. I suspect you don’t even know WHAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR or why. I futher suspect that he is not sure of what his emotional needs were/are either, only that OW was able to "provide".

You not alone, many things I didn’t realize that my W needed from me either, but she had the good sense not to get an OM involved.

The book will explain this in more detail.


He thinks by lying, he can spare you pain. It does not work, but I’m pretty sure that is what he is thinking.


Yes you deserved better than to get treated like this. There are lessons to be learned from this whether you stay with this H or find another. Learning good M skill is essential in any relationship you may end up in. We don’t want the past to repeat itself now do we?


He has his fair share of reading and learning to do as well. You are right, you can not do this alone forever. But I will encourage you to be the “Hero” for now and carry the load.
It’s not fair, but clearly, your H has his head up his A$$. Sometimes it takes a while for it to be removed. Some ladies here still think mine is still their. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



OK, if your going to go down this path, here is an idea or two:

Hit hard on the idea that he needs to RESPECT you enough to tell you the truth.
He will get that loud and clear. That he has DUTY to be honest.

Let him know that even what he has to say will hurt you, that you will RESPECT him MORE than if he tells the truth. You need to know how deep the rabbit hole is.

Let him know how you RESPECT him for all the hard work he does for the family, and that it is APPECIATED far more than you can express. That your FAMILY NEEDS YOU.

Let him know that you want the MAN you married and HIGHLY RESPECTED back and being %100 honest is the ONLY way for him to come back.

Don’t bother much to tell him how much you LOVE him, drive home the fact that YOU RESPECT him, at least for who he has been and what he has meant in your life. Find something you do RESPECT him for and tell him.

Telling him you RESPECT what he does for your family is like being told how beautiful you are after you have spent hours “getting yourself made up”. May be to simple of an example, but it’s the best I have so far <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This advice I co-opted from the book called “Love and Respect”. Read the others first and if you do happen to have some Christian based religion in you, you may find you like this book too. Even if you don’t, put it on your list to read anyway.

I fear Faith Follower maybe right. All is not lost, just your H is entangled in a mess that I am sure he is struggling with. If he at least says he wants to be with you, do what you can to encourage it. When he feels safe with you, he will spill all of his “beans” and get closer to you.

I hope that when your H reads the book, that he will begin to see how he can provide for your Emotional Needs as well. This will boost his confidence that you two can be happy together. It will give him something to DO to FIX this mess!

TH

I'm so upset now. I just don't think I can take anymore.... Last night OW called and I noticed this morning that there was a missed call so I told my H that she called and I had and appointment this morning so I went to my appt. On the way home he called me and was just asking how things went so I asked did you call her and he just sits there in silence. Then he says that he did call her that she went into lablr again and she is on bed rest. Nice, I'm so glad he wait until I'm gone to call her and he doesn't even understand why I'm upset aboutit. He just doesn;t realize what the big deal about NC is right now. I feel that if she needs him and he is so concerned about her then he shouldjust go be with the stupid b*tch slu*. I don't know how to make him realize why its important to stay away from her and why can't he call he in fromt of me. I just feel like my whole world is falling apart and I don't know what to do anymore. I can't keep living like this......I'm very upset right now so sorry for ranting....

COL,

I wish there was something I could say that would make you feel better, but I am afaird thier is not. I too had lunch and discussed OC issues with the OW when I should have not.

It simply draged out the withdrawl process for me and completey aggervated my W. It was yet another mistake I had made to show my W I was serious to keep us together.


Sad to say, but untill he reads a book or two, or talks to someone who has been in his shoes, he probley won't.
He is blinded right now. This will take time for him to get out of the FOG.

It might help if he were to come on this website and did some reading. Then he just might get a clue that your reactions are not "out of wack".

If you wish to send me an email at troubledh1969@yahoo.com
I would be happy to pass my cell number to you to give to your H. I would then explain to him why no contact is so essential.

I suspect he also needs someone he can confide in who has first hand experiance.

As a last ditch effort (but spendy), you could call the MB staff.

Your H is in the FOG, all is not lost, it will just be more difficult than I first suspected.



A sorry is not needed. The point of this site is to support you and your M. That support will also extend to your H if he so chooses to show up here.

I would also encourage you to visit this site for more information that could help you:

www.survivingbetrayal.com

TH

You need to search within yourself, and start thinking about drawing the line in the sand.

The reason you need to really search yourself about that is play out every way that it could end. And to be prepared that if he crosses the line that you will have stand firm in your decision. Cause if you dont then he will continue to cross over knowing that you will give in.

If your ready

sit him down, make eye contact the entire time, talk in a calm but firm voice, so he knows you mean business.

That under no circumstances should he contact OW again. And he needs to send her a NC letter. That until the DNA test come back to prove he is the father then she is not your guys concern. It was her decsion to sleep with a married man, so now she will have to go thru the pregnacy alone. Many OW use all kind of tactics (probs with pregnacy) to try and keep contact with the MM, but you wont fall for it.

That he must choose between OW and you, and if he chooses you then you will be firm on the NC, that you wont give him another chance if he breaks that promise. Because you will not allow him or OW to disrespect you or your marriage any longer with this game. You and your marriage deserve both of your complete attention to fix it, that your marriage must come first. That you are willing to overlook the worst pain possiable to forgive him, but only if he is wanting to work as hard at it as you.

Ground rules will come to play alot in the future, if you choose C with OC there will be alot, and H should understand them all because making you feel as comfortable with the whole deal is number one.

But those you dont need to worry about now, for now the imporant thing is getting this marriage back on track.

A good way to get him to thinking is ask him how he would feel if it was you that had the A and still contacted your lover.....

COL, if you can afford it call the Harleys for a couple counseling sessions.

I can't afford the fees. Oh well, I'm feeling more discouraged now then ever. I can't seem to get through to my husband. He still hasn't told the OW that he doesn't love her and that he doesn't want to be with her. It's like he's putting it off. I just think I am starting to love him less and less everyday. I don't even know if he would ever make me happy again. I really am just considering leaving. He will know he made the wrong choice. He is choosing to work and nothing else now and it does not help our relationship. I have asked him to only work his second job 3 nights a week so he has more time with his family and now he is at work even on the weekend. I just can't take it. He seems like his job is more important than his family. Good I hope he is rich and miserable ne day and he will realize what he let go. I got the book Surviving an affair and I really like it but he wont even read it so what's the use. I told my parents this week what's going on so I ahave alot of support and I just might have to step out into the big bad world by myseld and build the best life I can give my children. They are the ones that matter the most and I just want them to never feel pain like I have felt the last couple of months. It's starting to feel good to say that I want to leave and that I don't really love him anymore. It's even a little exciting to think of starting over. Maybe this time I can do things differently and have the best life possible. I hope so. Well, that's just how I am feeling right now. I know I deserve better and I know I can get through this no matter what.. Thanks again for all of the advise... I'll keep you all posted......

Have you read about Plan A and Plan B at this site? It sounds like you might be ready for Plan B, which is not necessarily divorce, but a distance that helps protect you from further pain.

I was fortunate my DH was willing to work hard on the marriage after Dday, but I've seen other marriages helped by Plan A/B.

Have you found a counselor yet? Go just for you, while it's covered by insurance!

J

At this point it is more for you to help you understand what happened and possibly why.


I might be tempted to “visit” him while he is working. Perhaps take him lunch or offer to eat out. I would want to see that he really is at work.

He could also be stressed about the Child Support that your family is going to have to pay. There is a strong drive in a lot of men to “provide”. Often this drive is so strong, that we tend to put everything else on the “back burner”.

You may want to ask in the softest (non threatening) tone you can if this is an issue. It may take him a while to see that getting you more money is NOT the most important issue for him to deal with at the moment.

Last but not least, you have every right in the world to divorce your H for what he has done. I, and many others would not blame you if you choose that option. Most of us do not want see your family broken. I would encourage you to continue reading and learning. If nothing else, it will help you prepare for your next relationship.

My offer to speak to your H still stands; just send me an email for me to send my cell number. If your H needs help getting his head out of his A$$ (the FOG), I would be happy to be there for him.

TH

I understand that he is probably stressed about providing for another child but I know the real reason he likes to go to his second job is just to get away from everything. He told me that he is stressed at work (military) I'm sure because she is there and she makes a point to go into his shop everyday ( I'm sure so she feels better about knowing that he knows she is there) also it gets stressful for him at home because we always tend to get into an argument. I have really been trying so hard to not fight and not to make comments that will offend him. I feel like if I am willing to let things go the least he can do is tell her that he doesn't love her and that he doesn't want to be with her. He said he won't tell her that until it's the right time. He thinks that he will just run into her in the hall or something at work and feel like it's the right time to tell her it's over. I asked him to write her a letter and he said nothing. I am going to try to get him to call her in front of me and tell her that he wants NC until after baby is born and DNA test is done. I hope he will do this for me. He thinks that she just assumes that it's over because he ignors her and doesn't call her anymore but I told him that all she knows is the last thing you told her was you love her and she probably thinks you are waiting for me to leave so you guys could be together. I will tell him that you are willing to talk to him even if he just wants to email. Maybe he will feel like he can actually talk to someone who is in the same shoes and won't judge. Oh and by the way I have drove past his work a few times and he is always there when he says he is, so far... I just hate doing that I just wish I could trust him. I think I used to be the most trusting wife around. If he wanted to go to the strip clubs with his buddies when they were TDY I wouldn't mind as long as he came home to me. We used to joke about women getting in his bed when he was deployed and him telling them to get out. Now I don't find any humor in any of that and I want to know where he is all the time. I am really trying to let some of this go it's just still so hard. I pray that we can make it through this. I do love him and I love our family and I'm sure I can love this new baby as well, the thing I don't love it that she will be in our lives forever and I hope that's not too much for me. I pray he has learned his lesson and that he will never hurt me again. I do EVERYTHING for him and I just want him to appreciate me. Anyway, thanks so much for all of your help. Hopefully I can at least get him to write you an email, maybe that will help him realize how important everything is now and how important NC is. Well, have a great day....

Hi COF,

You seem to be in better sprits. Not roses by any means, but better. I and many other are happy that you want your family to stay together. Your H will see the error of his current actions. The question is: will it be sooner, or later. I hope it is sooner!


Ya, this really is not going to fly. If he is commited to staying with you, then the kindest thing he could do is be "cruel" and get it overwith with a NC letter.

He will be hesitant about DNA at first. He will think that will insult the OW. What he is not getting is that it is not for HIS benifit, but for your piece of mind. I was pretty "thick headed" about this as well.

He may think he has all the reason in the world to trust OW, but when he figures out that you have NO reason to trust her, then he will soften his position on DNA.


You are far ahead of the process at your stage than many.

As far as the OW being in your life. This can be minimized to close to nothing so long as OW is not some sort of wacko.
The child with simply have two families. If both are loving homes, I don't see a problem.

There is NO reason your H should ever talk to OW in private FOR ANY REASON. Any issues with the OC should be handled by you. If OW does not like it, then Tough SH(rymes with IT).
When she decided to have sex with your H, she took the chance that you would become her childs stepmom.


I guess the moon and stars have to be lined up in the right position too! ;-)

I know he will think differnt, The Lord knows I did, but he owes her nothing. There is no nice way of saying "Sorry honey, I loved you, but I am staying with my family". OW is going to hurt and get PO'd anyway that it gets said. No need for her to hang around and have any hope. It's truley is more kind for him deal her the "death blow" and get it over with.

I think you need to start figuring out where YOUR boundries are. This crap has a way of dragging out for a while if you don't. Declair where you are at. Be prepard to do what you say your going to do.

Here are a few suggestions:

NO CONTACT. If you must, requier him to place his hand on a BIBLE and swear to tell the truth. I lied my a$$ off a few times, but I would have never crossed that line. I hope your H has enough sence not to either.

He needs to start his withdrawl process. He will hurt terrable and say things he will later regreat. You just need to know why he is saying them. Think about your PLAN A action if he complies with your requests.

He need to read! 1/2 to one chapter a night is not too much to ask when your family is at stake. Be prepard to ask him about concepts in the book. Don't be so quick to drill him about it's meaning untill he has a chance to process what he has read, you just need to know that he IS READING.

Time, He has to cut back! Be prepard to show him how all the bills can be taken care of without him having to put in so many hours at work. Logic needs to rule the day here.

Then outline for him what you think his DUTIES are to the family. Make sure there is also time allocated so that he has some QUIET TIME. Time that is his at home "guilt free".
Think about the time he needs, then double it and add half ;-)

Your family is in my prayers,

TH


troubledh1969@yahoo.com
www.survivingbetrayal.com

TH, awesome posts. Thanks for reaching out to COL.

Ok time to vent already again.... No the deal is that he went to work last night and on the way home decided to go over to her house. I knew he went there and I asked him about it and he said he only went there to tell her that it was over and that he didn't want to be with her but he said he never even got out of his car. He says he just sat there contemplating for 30 minutes then decided to come home. I wish he was telling me the truth but the truth is I just don't believe him anymore. Why could he just tell me that he wanted to go over there and talk to her and end it why would he need to be so secretive.. He would have never told me about if if I didn't know for a fact that he was there... Why if he wants to be with her wouldn't he just be with her and let me go./... Why keep me hoping that things will get better but try living a double life? I just don't understand.. He told me that he hasnt been over there or even talked to her in months and the one night I'm checking on him he does... What a coinsidence... He told me after I confronted him that he can't even stand to talk to her that she annoys him. He hates even seeing her at work or hearing her laugh at work he says it really bothers him but then why would he still go over there... I know he won't go now because he knows I can find out if he has but that's not the point. I'm not this type of person who is paranoyed and wants to spy. I hate that I can't trust him.. I want to but he has given me no reason to. I wanted to talk to him tonight but of course he had to go to work... I'm so tired of not being appreciated and not feeling loved. I'm still young enough to start over and be treated right. I just don't know why it is so damn hard to let go. I want to just let go so bad and be done with all this crap. He made a choice for both of us when he slept with that homewrecker so why can't I just give him what he obviously wanted... I need to find my strength now. I just pray I can do it. I need to be done threatening to leave and just do it so he knows I will. He thinks righ now that I won't leave and it's true. I need to figure out how to just do it and be done oncew and for all. He must think I'm really dumb but I'm done being dumb. It's time to stick up for myself and my children. He has started a new family hopefully they can be happier then we were. Sorry if I have bummed anyone out but I just can't keep feeling worthless and sad all the time and that is all he does for me anymore. I pray I don't make the same mistakes in my next relationship. Thanks for listening....

Hi COL,

Your H is acting like the stupid donkey that is hungery and sitting between two bails of hay and can't figuer out which to eat from, so he nibbles from both.

If memory serves me correctly, this is in the book your reading. I can tell you from experieance that the above statement, fits pretty good.

I think we have to come back to how far are you willing to go to try and turn this around. I want to stress however, that your willingness to try is a choice and in my mind not any kind of moral obligation. If your done, then your done.

Your H at this moment is no better that a junkie. He is ADDICTED to seeing and caring for the OW. I will tell you, he is not thinking straight. One day he will, again, I hope it is sooner than later.

I know it may be hard to see this, but in my junkie additced days. I always felt I was doing a tight rope act keeping everything togther. One day the OW would be mad at me, the next my W would be mad. I could not stand the thought of losing either of them.

When push finally came to shove and the W was done, I quickly figured out what would hurt worse. For me, losing my family was not acceptable.

If your H is still wanting to come home everynight, then I suspect he is feeling the same way. His thinking is just so screwed up at the moment. He is clearly in the "FOG" as it is known here.


No need to say sorry to us. It's all about choice if you wish continue to try. People here can share thier stratagies that they used and that worked for them to turn there M around. Again it is a choice, not a moral obligation at this point.

Yes, others and I would love to see a happy endding to your situation, but no is wanting to see you get detroyed any more than what has already happened.

I would encourage you to search and listen to the experiance of:

Dealen-De aka Kimmy
Pepperband
Faithfull Follower
Eibrab
And many others.

I can only tell you what I was thinking and how I was affected by the potential loss of my family as a wayward.
These ladies can tell you more of what to expect from your side of things. What they did to restore themself's first, then thier M.


Because you love him.

TH

Will he never admit to me that he is still seeing her or will he continue to lie until I catch him? That's what I don't understand. If he would just admit to me that he still has feelings for her and still sees her at least I would know the truth and try to help him see clearly.. He said to me last night that if it takes me moving out and to another state to prove that he doesn't want her or to be with her then I will find out if that's what I decide to do. In other words he thinks if I leave I will see he is not with her and doesn't want her then I will come back. What he doesn't realize is that if I leave I'm gone. I will not move our children back and forth. If I leave I'm moving on with my life as a single mother and I will find someone who loves me one day. I just can't leave and come back. I don't want to... Anyway, he is not working his other job tomight so maybe he will want to talk about things a little more but I'm not bringing it up. He needs to want to talk to me and if he doesn't then fine, I guess I'm not worth it to him.. Thanks for always having something to say to me TroubledH... I do really appreciate that there is someone there listening.....

Take Care