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Hello MyAlias,

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I, too, am sorry it's come to this. Goodness knows you've been trying very hard to make this M stick. I feel drained just having to try to help you through it ... I can't imagine how zapped you must be.


I know. You kind people have been right there with me on my roller coaster ride and I am greatful to have made such awsome friends.

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I wish the best for you. I do think you need to start working towards other possible endings to your situation. Continuing to stay M'ed to this person your W has become isn't healthy for anyone. Hopefully the Plan B shakes her to her core and she begins to come around. It will be a long road though so be prepared to have more energy than ever before. It's going to take a lot of strength to work at being dark and moving on. It's your general nature to look at things through rose-colored glasses and I fear you'll get sucked back into this nightmare R.


I fear this too. I do not want to be sucked back in and have to do this twice!!! I am sure it will be hard. I love her and it is not easy telling the person you love that you think it is best that they leave.

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Don't forget to ask for help on how to explain this calmly to your S. I'm sure he'll be devastated but things cannot continue as they are. They'll soon become toxic for everyone including him.


My little guy is tops on my mind. He and I had a great weekend. On the drive up I got him a sketch pad and colored pencils. I told him to draw something that made him really happy. He drew a picture of all three of us eating dinner together. Saturday night leaving the fair I asked if he had a good time and if this fair was something he wanted to come back to next year. He said, "Yes, but next year we can bring mom along."

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Again I'm sorry to hear things haven't changed. I was ready to send a call out to you last week seeing it had been too long since we'd heard from you. And as I feared your silence meant things weren't improving.


Actually, I think that things finally are improving in a strange way. I know that I am now moving in some kind of direction. It may be a different direction than what I want, but it will not remain the hurtful unfulfilling path I am currently on. Because of this, I ask that you be happy for me, even during the next few days when I most certainly will be feeling completely crushed. You know of my struggle and the energy it has taken from me.

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Take note of what Myschae has said. Your letter would be torn to shreds by SH if you showed it to him. This isn't the way to go dark. This isn't a good Plan B letter. Myschae hit on something when she talked about you discussing things in the "Royal WE" sense. There is no "Royal WE" right now as your W doesn't see the future that you see. Talking to her in that sense will only cause her to miss what you are truly trying to say. "Recovering a M takes work but a lost M and lost love can be recovered.".


I will actually put this to the test at 2:30 when I read it to him. No worries friend, I am in good hands. Like I said to Mys. I feel as though there is really nothing I could say that would be right in WW's eyes. Therefore, I might as well say something that means something to me. Right?

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I love Myschae's proposed dialogue to when your W comes home. Do it just like that. It's reverse babble time. Time to go dark. (If you need good pointers search through MyWifeILove's story to find the part where he went dark. That's how you need to be. You need to know you're going to be OK with out her and you need to start making that happen (just in case she doesn't come around.).


Thanks to you I have read MyWifeILove's post. I am familiar with going dark and have already started going dark. Obviously, there will be times I will need more help on this. However, I have no doubt the great people here on MB will be more than happy to use their clue bat on me if I drift too far from the plan.

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Good luck EL. And special good luck tonight. I'll be watching for ya.


Thank you so much my good friend. I will undoubtedly be up and on this site tonight. Most likely after 10:00pm Eastern. I am hoping there are plenty of people around to talk me down from the ledge.

Take Care,

EL

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Hello Diamondsj,

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I've been following for some time now and I wish you well tonight and the following days...it'll be tough, but hang in there EL...prayers to you and yours


Thank you so much for your kind wishes. They mean so much to me right now. You are too kind.

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I will actually put this to the test at 2:30 when I read it to him. No worries friend, I am in good hands. Like I said to Mys. I feel as though there is really nothing I could say that would be right in WW's eyes. Therefore, I might as well say something that means something to me. Right?


Well I see you are going to discuss this with the expert so we'll leave it in his good hands. I will throw in my .02 cents worth just in case.

I was under the impression that he wanted you to go dark and your letter still seems to cling too much to wanting to convince her that this thing is worth saving. You are repeating what you've already said ... over and over again. You're right she's not going to hear it so how does it help you if she isn't going to hear any or it? You just want to get it out there? Is it just one more lecture you want to give her before sending her off?

SH asked you to go dark. You've already started going dark. This long message to her is not being dark. I'd keep it short and sweet. Not mean, just dark. You need to start sending the message that you are done working with her. She needs to want this M. She needs to come to you. If you are in dark mode she shouldn't be hearing that you're still trying to convince her of anything. You've run out of steam. You aren't going to fight for this anymore. You are trying to preserve the minimal amount of love you have for her. It also gives you some control of your life and what happens in it. Going dark will accomplish this in its mysterious mode of silence.

JMHO.


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Hi EL,

(((((EL))))))

Well, I think this is ultimately a good and wise thing for you to do right now--though I know it's painful and hard, and I am sad that your wife never could rally towards you.


Of course you know I will beat my same drum... your letter is too much... Too many words.

She won't hear but a few words from you, so you better make them count. If your goal is to get her out of the house, than you need to keep it simple.

I like Myschae's ideas. Also, there are plan b letters all over the place on this board (Anyone know how to link, maybe you could send him a couple). You could follow their format.

The point isn't to say whatever makes you feel good--it is to say whatever is most likely to guarantee your success.

Any discussion with SH on what to do if she refuses to leave?


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Hello MyAlias and Telly,

Thanks for your tremendous support. First I want to re-itterate that this is NOT a plan B letter. Steve was very clear on this. My W will not be able to move out tonight or even tomorrow. Therefore, Steve does not want me to give her a plan B letter until she is walking out the door.

Steve asked me to deliver the message that I feel it is time for her to find her own place. However, he still wants me to give her the consistent message that we have an option put in front of us by Steve and that at this time we could still take him up on his offer for the MB weekend. Steve wants me to plug this message at this time, while delivering the concept that I am now agreeing with her moving out.

I am not sure why the reccomendations for me, from Steve do not seem to follow MB to the letter of the law, but for some reason, it has been this way all along for me. He held me up from doing plan B when I was out of energy because of his concerns over her support structure. Now, he is pushing for W to get the understanding that there actually is something that would save our M if she chose to follow it, but if she did not, she would be making a choice instead of actually being "forced" to kill the M. Steve still believes this is a fundamental turning point for my W. I have to follow the expert on this.

I will read the letter and if he feels the same as you guys, I will not read it. If he feels I should remain a man of few words at this point, I will.

Regarding W not wanting to move out, Steve admitted that I cannot force her out. Therefore, he said I would have to begin a "quasi-plan B" while we both lived at home. Although this would be difficult, it can be done. I would need to take back handling the finances (atleast the ones involving the money I am making). Also, I would go dark and remain dark. I would surround myself with only doing things with S. I would be going out of my way to not involve W in anything I am doing. I would have to tell W through a letter and conversation that I was detaching from her to preserve what little love I had left for her.

These are what Steve has recommended to me.

Thanks,

EL

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Keep in mind I will be speaking once again with Steve today at 2:30 my time. I need a final pep talk!

Good.

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I need a final pep talk! Also, this is not meant to be a plan B letter. Not yet. It is a letter from my heart describing how I feel and what I think right now. To me, this letter is more for me than for her, if this makes any sense. I am delivering it to her as I feel I need to for me to come to the conclusion that it is time for her to move out. The "bomb" will come across.

I guess I'm just afraid it won't because you're so wordy. My prediction is that she's more or less going to ignore what you said (other than getting mad at you for saying it.)

At least you have a backup plan (in house Plan B).

Are you at least prepared for some of her bad behavior to possibly escalate some while she 'tests you.'

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Rememmber, I actually and doing something very different here. I have gone way dark and am now asking her to move out. This in and of itself is very different from how I have been. She feels I have been keeping her locked away in our house and would not let go. I am now releasing the bird. She will hear this message. I am not sure how she will react, but she will hear it.

You can't control what she hears or doesn't hear. Let it go.

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Since it does not really matter what I say to her right now, as long as I get the message across that she should move out, then why not say something that means something to me? Why not do something that would make me feel better because it came from my heart?

You know what? You have a point. Right now, your actions will offer clarity greater than your words. So, say whatever makes you feel at peace with yourself. This is hard enough, really.

Your actions will speak for you when the time comes.

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Can you say Amber Alert?

An amber alert is for kidnapped children. While you're married with no custody order in place, your wife is legally able to take those children anywhere (I think).

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Mys, thank you so much! You have always been an inspiration to me. I really appreciate you stopping by on this critical day to offer your support. I can't tell you how much this means to me. Some day I will be able to.

I know this isn't what you wanted. I'm sorry to see this day come but a little relieved for you, also. It's going to be hard, but you can do this.

I know you think that the world is going to shift around tonight but I suspect that aside from some stomping around, your wife is going to pretend none of this ever happened. So, don't look for too much action -- though be watchful that she doesn't take your son and leave the state.

Things won't really start happening until you take action (like taking back the finances), etc. This is just the first step in what is likely to be a long, protracted situation. So, try and plan for that, ok?


Mys

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Ok guys,

I just finished with Steve. He told me that it has been 5 days since we had our phone conversation with WW. He recommended a "weather check." He wants me to go home early and have enough time before I need to leave with S to take him swimming. He wants me to fit in, "Have you reconsidered Steve's offer to investigate how to make our M great?" Then he wants me to watch her reaction.

Steve says that if she says she will go to the seminar, then things are put on hold. If she says she is still thinking about it, or has not had the chance, then things are put on hold. If she flat out refuses and says something like, "I told you I am not going and you are not going to tell me what to do." then I proceed with pulling the trigger, but after S is in bed later on.

Steve feels that the longest she can delay is two weeks since the seminar is at the end of the month. I told Steve I am not too comfortable with this since I have somewhat made peace in my mind as to what I was going to do tonight. However, there is a 95% chance I will still be pulling the trigger.

The question you are all wondering is that Steve told me it is really 6 and 1/2 dozen of another with regards to what letter I read her. However, he leaned towards keeping it short and saying something like, "WW, Since you have consistently refused to investigate a possible plan, or any plan to make our M great, I think it is time you should move out."

SH feels WW is going to get upset and not want to move out. He feels that she is going to turn things upside down to stay, which is funny and makes her position even weaker. SH wants me to stay focused and gave me a phrase to get me out of trouble. He said to say, "My WW has no interest in investigating something she is unaware of that could make our M great. What am I supposed to do?"

SH feels it is good to go into this without having consulted a lawyer at first because she will feel less threatened. I have currently stopped my next pay check from going into our bank account. I will recieve a live check and then be able to decide what to do with it in the next few days. This gives me options.

What do you guys think?

EL

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EL,

I only have a quick moment.

I think you need a plan and who better to follow than the advice of an expert (SH).

Good luck tonight.

I'm praying she says OK to the seminar or spews venom. That way you can start down something other than this horrid holding pattern.


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(((EL))))

Good luck, dear man.

Please let us know how it goes.

You and your little family are in my prayers.


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Ok, I am home and about to leave in 25 minutes to take S swimming. I small talked with W as SH suggested. She showed me her concert shirt she bought that said "Mom's Love Us." I asked how her knew clothes worked out. She told me the outfits she wore in detail (not sure why).

We went downstairs to make dinner for S while he was upstairs on the computer and continued some small talk about bills etc.. Then I asked, "Have you reconsidered the offer SH made us about investigating something that could make our M great?" W said, "I don't want to go to that seminar. I told you last week." I could not take it. I got up and walked outside. W made a poor look on her face and a sigh. While I was outside, I remembered SH told me to then change the subject. So, I started to go back inside and W ended up comming outside.

She said, "So, you are going to be [censored] to me because I don't want to go." I said, "You don't want to work on our M, what am I supposed to do?" I sat down next to her on the porch and she made a [censored] face (like, oh, boy, here we go again. He has not even been home 15 minutes and we are already into a relationship talk). Since she did not say anything further to my comment, I just threw my hands up, got up and walked back in the house.

She ended up comming back in after a ciggarrett. Meanwhile, I got S downstairs to eat dinner. When she walked back in she was on her cell with her mom. Funny how she got onto the phone with her mom that quick. I no longer believe in coincidences in my life. I bet W senses what is about to befall her and probably let her mom know it was about to happen. I know this is me filling in the blanks right now, but WTF?!

When she walked back in she was still talking with her mom and I heard her say, "They took pictures the whole weekend and EL put them into a scrap book for S. S, do you want to talk to yaya?" S did not want to and W said, "Ok, maybe later." Then she told her mom she loved her and hung up.

She tried to talk to me about other small stuff as though nothing just happened. In fact, while I just got onto my computer she just stuck her head out our door and asked me if I got it working. I said yes and she went back inside.

I guess this is it. Its on for tonight! W seemed as though she wanted to say something else, but held back. Not sure how she will react to tonight.

What do you guys think?

EL

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I think you should go ahead, following the plan for this contingency just as Steve spelled out.

Good luck, EL. I'm very sorry it has come to this.

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I guess this is it. Its on for tonight! W seemed as though she wanted to say something else, but held back. Not sure how she will react to tonight.

I think she'll...

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She tried to talk to me about other small stuff as though nothing just happened. In fact, while I just got onto my computer she just stuck her head out our door and asked me if I got it working. I said yes and she went back inside.

..most likely ignore it like crazy until as long as you are "just" talking. I mean that behaviorally, by the way, not that she won't comment. I'm sure she will comment -- then studiously ignore it and try to keep the status quo.

Once you take this step, actions are what will count. (Actually, actions are always what's counted)

Mys

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Thanks MOS and Mys for the encouragement!

SH told me to go for it in this situation. I am thinking WW will not be suprised. I just put S to bed and am giving him some time to fall asleep. WW is actually doing OUR laundry right now.

I am going to ask for a few moments of her time downstairs. Then I will say: "Your consistent choices to not investigate any type of plan that could make our M great has left me with no alternative but to agree that it is time for you to find another place to live." Then I wait. Then react calmly.

Funny thing is that SH and I covered things up to this point, but not any further.

If she does not want to move out, I have an idea of what to say, somewhat. However, even if she agrees to move out, we did not cover how I would behave around her during the transition. We also have joint parties comming up etc..

What do I do? Do I say that based upon our current situation, I am also left with no choice but to detach myself from her to preserve the love I have left for her?

Do I tell her I am taking back the finances? I have talked to my payroll lady and she is getting me a live check this time which gives me options for a few days.

Oh, I am scared! I really love her and want to grow old while being in love with W!

Darn the drug she is on!!!!!!!

EL

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Oh My GOD!!!!

I told WW today that I wanted her to move out. She got mad and told me that I had no right to tell her to move out of HER house. She said the house is both of ours and that I should move out! She also said she is not leaving the house until everything is settled. I then told her she has money in her personnel checking account and that I would not leave her destitute.

Then she said, "Real nice. Because I will not go to the stupid seminar you tell me to move out." I said, "No, because you refuse to investigate ANY opportunity available to work on our M, I am loosing too much love for you and need to preserve what love I have left."

It ended up becomming too long and drawn out. We went back and forth (I know, I could not help it). Then she accused me of creating a circular argument AGAIM. I told her that it is her creating the circular argument because she NEVER moves towards resolution and just continues to ignore what I am saying and then acts like nothing is wrong."

I read her my longer letter (the one I posted). She sat quiet for a while and then, "What am I supposed to say?" I said, "Its not what you are supposed to say, it is what your heart tells you to say."

She got mad and went to leave the room and said, "Fine. You want resolution? You LEAVE!" Then she went upstairs. She ignored my calling her and asking her to wait a minute.

I followed her up into our bedroom (I know, I should not have). I tried to talk with her further. She said she did try long ago and did not know I could hurt her like that (in the past). She said, "I am scared that you would physically hurt me. You actually scare me. The emotional abuse, the drinking binge when you got into my face (this was the day after I found out about the OM and she told me she did not love me and wanted a D), its all a pattern of a physical abuser!" I was shocked and said, "Stop! Don't take that last little bit from me. Even basic human compassion inside of you should not let you take that last little bit from me."

I said, "You know I would never physically hurt you." She said, "You keep pushing me and pushing me and won't let things go. This pushes me further away. Don't you get that? You won't stop until I agree with what you want." I said, "All I want is for you and I to be happy." W said, "Of Course I want you and I to be happy, but I don't believe we can be happy together." I said, "Why not investigate this." She said, "Fine. I'll read the 'plan.' Does that make you happy?" I said, "No. I am tired of living like this. The second to the last thing I want is to split up. The last thing I want is to continue living how we are living." I said, "Let me ask you a question." She had her arms folded and was watching the TV through me. I said, "My W refuses to investigate things she is unaware of that could make our M great. What is her H supposed to do? Really W, what am I supposed to do?" W said, "Move on. You just keep pushing me to get your way. You never stop." I said, "I am stopping right now. I am letting go and I am giving you what you are asking for."

I walked away. She came downstairs in a huff and had a smoke outside while I got on my computer.

I probably screwed this up.

Then while I was just typing this I heard S cry out in his sleep. I went upstairs and W was on our bed looking as though she was TMing on her cell phone. She said she did not hear S. I took care of S and then walked into our bedroom. I said, "If this is what you really want, then I will let go. Maybe it is the only way left to show you that I truely love you." She did not say anything and then said, "I was setting my alarm on my phone." (Yeah, Right!) I walked back downstairs.

Go ahead. Tell me how horrible I just did!!!!!!!

EL

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I guess, at the very least I took away her controlling tool of telling me she was going to find a place to live. She had been using this one more persistently lately.

EL

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Is anybody out there? I really could use someone to talk to right now....

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I am here, I have been following your thread, You know what, you did the best you could with the tools and experience you had. She sure will drop the 'I'm leaving" stuff now.

Sliver


Me BSx2 63

1st M 13yrs WS Multiple As.

DD45 DD43 DS41 first marriage.

Him WS 56 P/A. PA + Multiple EAs from day one.

Current M. 26years

D Days 10/02, 11/02, 01/03, right up to 03/06

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I also lost it sometimes in the "trouble" days. I am much better now and rarely lose it, but when I was where you are, I DJ'd or rose to the bate and forgot to reverse babble.

When it hurts it hurts. You have made a step. Made a statement and that is one step forward. You also see how little good the long flowery statements make. Short and sweet factual sentences. No past, just the present and a reflection of what she is doing and then say what will enable her to see your position.

So now - you go dark, act as if she is a stranger who will be offended if you make small talk. Only say what you have to. It will drive her mad and creat a vacuum, usually you say to much too often. The change will stun her. Expect her to explode.

SH will suggest exactly how you make your next move. I would suggest letting her get a dose of the new you. Little conversation if DS is not there. Try to make it normal for him. Stay calm, no raised voice, sparse words, try to stay out of her presence.

SP


Me BSx2 63

1st M 13yrs WS Multiple As.

DD45 DD43 DS41 first marriage.

Him WS 56 P/A. PA + Multiple EAs from day one.

Current M. 26years

D Days 10/02, 11/02, 01/03, right up to 03/06

NC since 03/2006

Me Stage IV Breast Cancer since 36months,

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You did fine. You all ready knew it was unlikely for her to agree to leave (and then the next natural thing would be for her to tell YOU to leave).

You probably should have kept it shorter -- but you didn't, and that's OK too. I don't think you did any damage.

The important part now will be to listen to Steve about how to 'take back' the finances, etc. I don't know what to say about the parties. It sort of depends on how you feel about them, I guess. When you interact with your wife, you should probably at least be cordial. And, I suspect not bring up any relationship talk.

I'm sorry you're so hurt. Try and do something nice for yourself today.

Mys

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EL,

You did just fine. Surprisingly fine. Maybe it dragged out longer than it should have but in the end ... what damage could it do???? Things are already nearly as crappy as they could be.

I think it's time for you to begin an at home Plan B. By the sounds of it there is no way she's moving out. She wants to continue to live this roommate relationship because the alternative for her is much, much worse than what she's got now. Sorry but she's a cake-eater. Wants to continue to live off of you yet doesn't want to do anything to move towards a healthy, loving R. Time for you to get your finances in order and start cutting off the joyride she's on.

IMHO. Of course follow SH's advice only.

Amazing how she tries to portray you as some kind of monster. Bringing up the possibility of physical abuse. What a load!! Then claims you keep pushing. My goodness it has been years since she's made any kind of move that similates what a H and W should have. And she wants to complain that you're pushing her. Of course you are!!!! Your life is passing you by while you wait for her to do SOMETHING!

She'll say anything she can to get you to back down so she can continue her to raise her son in a beautiful home with her roommate and son's biological father. It really strikes a nerve for me. It would be different if she were doing anything that resembled some form of partnership in your R.

Enough of my rant. How are you doing this morning? You holding together OK? Are you still feeling positive about moving in some kind of direction? I think this is going to be what's best EL. I think you need to make things happen. This has dragged on for way too long. Stay strong my friend. You'll get through it and things will someday be rosey for you again.


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