Can you spell "holding pattern" that is what my boy went into, it was ****** and he is a lot better now he is not living there and seeing it all the time, but - it did get her to be agreeable to making their own agreements.

Your lawyer seems to have told you all of the downs - good - you need to know, all of the cautions and none of the ways to circumvent the downs. Maybe it is not her style to offer help or suggestions, not so good for billing, to have the client do it themselves. (get amicable agreement with WS).

I think you need to not do anything, stay in holding pattern for a while until things normalize in your head, you do get used to it and you will get emotionally stronger the more times you do not respond with DJs, LBs or AOs. These are also things she can hold against you. Didn't you say the OM had an OW. Or am I mixing my threads?

You are not in Plan B. so you are not going backwards, you are still in Plan A but you are using more stick now. Telling her to Sh## or get off the pot is not plan Bing, it is like the stick of Plan A. So not chasing her out, and protecting what you can is not plan Bing her, it is just a holding pattern to keep your finances safe so you can control where they go and she cannot grab them and squander them. You are protecting her against herself, if you are her sole source of financial support. You are preventing her killing the golden goose.

Linda

PS Running - This is just normal stress reaction. I teach energy work, which is like visualisation, and self healing - I offer this to you free - LOL and it is effective if taught over the 'phone. You can use when you run, walk, rest - are keeping calm etc.

Let me know.

Extremely Lost


I don't think that a court will look down on you for not paying for her cell or her entertainment. The car might be a different story.


Ugh. That really doesn't seem fair. She's not responsible for any of her support??


Did you ask why you'd be awarded only "slight" visitation? That doesn't seem logical to me.


So, is the difference between legal separation and divorce that the maintenance goes on longer? In other words, does the maintenance that you pay during separation "count" towards the 3 year clock?


Talk to SH before you do anything.



Isn't there some cap on how much of your income they can take?

This really sucks. I'm so sorry, {{{{{{{{{EL}}}}}}}}}

Mys

And now you know why I am still married. If you are a high income guy but not rich in assets, married to a SAHM, and want to spend time with your kids, then divorce is just not an option. If you ever find yourself in NY or New England on business, give me a shout and we will drown our sorrows over a few beers together. I would say I would jog with you, but until I get to the doctor tomorrow and get the test results back I am forbidden to exercise.

It certaintly doesn't sound fair. But then I don't know any systematic way for dealing with divorces involving SAHMs that *are* fair. Argh.

I think what would begin to approach fairness is that infidelity is considered in custody and support decisions.

So if a SAHM get's bored and has an affair, then she becomes the visiting parent and has to take care of herself, or have the OM support her.

One of the biggest inequities in the system is that fidelity is NOT considered in most states.

If someone just gets tired of their marriage, without doing any work to build a better marriage, I certainly do not see them as a fit parent or entitled to the efforts of their spouses labor.

So perhaps we can address the fairness issue by addressing the very things that are currently kept out of most courts, the details of the affair.

Where that's been tried, it's mostly been considered to come out as less fair, not more, due to the difficulty of providing hard evidence of anything; the whole matter simply devolves to a mud-slinging match.

That could mean that it's ineffective, or it could mean that it was poorly implemented.

If there was mudslinging, it's because the courts allowed it. That seems an easy issue to address.

It doesn't seem too difficult, in these days to track the activities of a wayward spouse by having the courts to order the cell phone providers to provide records of a suspected waywards phone activities, and other things such as catching a wayward spouse in the act.

Or even profession evaluations on their comittment to working with a spouse during court mandated marriage counselling.

While you can't make someone want to build a marriage, I do believe you can gauge where they are during such sessions.

If a spouse is in an affair, a trained counsellor should be able to note that finding, and have it be a matter of court record.

Likewise, claims of abuse can be confirmed or refuted and the whole nine yards.

Divorces take a long time anyway, so why not have the couple under professional evaluation before their court date by an impartial 3rd party?

I believe it can be done. Just because it has failed before doesn't mean it's not possible.

ROFL. I wish that were possible to do accurately, but it's not even close.

Edited to add:

EL is strung out enough already. If you want to talk about how you think divorce courts should work, that's great, but please put it on a new thread and be careful not to threadjack EL.

Fair enough

Enlightened_Ex

I wonder if you would give your opinion on what you think EL should do -- you've been through this in his approximate situation. The inequities in the system aren't likely to be remedied in time to help him (unless he just decides to bide his time).

I'm not sure what to advise him to do at this point. The marriage builder in me wants to say "Hold out for a partnership marriage and don't settle for less!" but I'm not a parent, and I don't know what it's like to experience part time parenting (or even full time parenting). I think you have a unique perspective on what the future might look like down that road, if you're willing to share it with him.

I know you feel treated unfairly by the courts but I wonder if you can speak to your experience now -- a little time has passed. Has the financial stuff worked out? Are you able to coparent effectively with your ex? How is your relationship with your dear daughter?

Mys

I've spent the last 30 minutes reading this, and I'm not so sure how much I can contribute.

My XW left to pursue her affair partner. When I still had money, I worked with SH, but the money ran out while I was trying to support her with voluntary CS as well as pay off the debts, etc.

You certainly can not make her leave, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try to build the best financial situation you can.

When my XW left, she was no longer a SAHM, because two years prior, I said that either her spending had to drop, or she had to get a job that supported her mad money desires, so she had been back to work.

If you are in a situation where your accounts are close to zero balance right before payday and she is driving around in a $700/month Lexus, it's not unreasonable to make some changes financially.

Perhaps what you need, or at least can pursue is not marital advice, but financial advice.

Ask your lawyer if credible financial counselling has any weight with the courts. Say if you were to look at the Dave Ramsey stuff and evaluate your finances and determine that either your standard of living must go down, or the income must go up, so that you have more than just your feelings about her affair driving the train.

Either way, just like surviving an affair, you have to become a great partner, regardless how the marriage turns out, you need to be a great financial manager.

So perhaps you approach the logistics of the situation from that perspective.

I certainly can't tell you how to MB, as I failed in that arena. But I hope you find my suggestions helpful.

How are things for me myschae asks?

The financial stuff worked out long before the divorce was final. We were married 9 years on paper and I make 4x to 5x what she does. The $1k/month I currently pay in CS is a bargain compared to her cost of living. So I don't feel sorry for her family or the OM for having to pick up that burden.

In her haste to leave, she put an artificially low value on the home, and after asking several times if she wanted an appraisal, she said no and left $25K on the table.

When I refinanced the home after the divorce, I gave her $7K, paid off all the debt that I hadn't paid off during her affair and divorce. (That's right, I paid off close to $30K in debt while divorcing against the advice of my lawyer.)

We split the debts based on income she got 1/2 of the marital portion of my retirement, but by leaving that extra $25K on the table, we essentially split the debt and assets 50/50.

I ended up with joint custody, but not as much parenting time as I would like. Things are hit and miss with co-parenting. She is the one who is still very dark, and as I've described, all but hides when I drop off DD at her apartment.

I have a great relationship with DD, I had her all day Monday as she was off for Columbus day and I did the work from home deal. I had her again Tuesday and we grilled out as well as boiled up some crab legs (a new favorite of hers, introduced by her dear old dad.)

Last years parent teacher conferences were alone. XW scheduled one for me and one for herself so we wouldn't go together. I'll see how this year goes.

I do believe it will get better. It may never be what you want, but you make of your situation all you can.

Ultimately, regardless what happens in court, you have to be the best parent you can be.

I chose not to fight with my XW in court over custody, because as I've alluded to and you've witnessed, the deck is stacked against you.

Instead, I plan and am largely succeeding at winning the heart of my DD. Not at the expense of my XW, by tearing her down, but rather by being the best dad that I can be. I'm not Disneyland dad (but we did go to Disneyworld last year, LOL) as I often say no. But I am a loving, caring, compassionate dad (and modest too) who takes an interest in her life, her education and her upbringing.

She has a dad who will cook a meal for her and sit down with her and ask about her day at school, or what's going on with her friends. Who will ask if she wants a drink, yet remind her than she is not to leave her dirty cups and dishes, or clothes all over the house.

I care enough about her that I don't give her everything she asks for, but I do give her an allowance, and other than requiring that she save 10% and give 10% to the church, she is essentially free to handle the remainder as she sees fit.

Sometimes, the most loving word we can tell someone we love is no.

EL,

In Indy you do not HAVE to pay maintenance - if she has a child who can go to school and has had a job that she knows, then she can be required to go to work. You can encourage this, my son did it using Plan A. He knew it would benefit them if she stayed and him if she left. she has an earnings record, you were talking about her abusing discounts to the house ... you lawyer does not seem very positive or you have taken what might happen as if the court already did it.

It is not definite that any court would order it, it is a possibility. I am fortunate, I have known our lawyer for many years and worked with him in a professional setting, so I know him and my referrals usually get a free first interview, so they can decide if he is what they want. So that was helpful for my son, I never thought I would ever be referring my own son and just refer people who ask this Lawyer because of the work I have seen him do..

Do not take what your lawyer says is possible, as fact. You wife may not want any valuations, it depends in how it is played. Your son will see you a certain amount of days by law, and if you are nice to your wife you can get her to agree to more, as it will give her time alone with OM. this is all presuming she doesn't turn around. Don't feel beat up - nothing has happened yet? You have more information, given to you in a frightening way, and she has had her "I'm leaving" bluff called.

The more days she agrees to let you have your son the less you have to pay her. This is deducted from the calculated amount . The court might just as well say," well you need to go to work, get back selling the stuff you sold before". I am sad that you got the facts and some maybe's, as facts.

I know of one case where a Transsexual challenged his/her wife for custody. They went to court, she had the Indy Super lawyer. the T* had list of info about her infidelity all through their marriage. The children were interviewed and the T* won full custody. Right here in Indiana. Adultery will do no good in divorce, in fact the Family court Judges frown upon it being brought up,this is a no fault state. (can you guess whom likes to go and sit in courts and listen) In custody hearings it can count, especially if you get Judge Payne I think it is. Also any behaviour that the children find bothersome, and speeding tickets while kids are in car, suicide attempts or pretends. I hired a PI for my son, not thousands either, hundreds, so that told us where she was going and what she was doing. Lots of things can help you.

My son had to leave, as she was making their lives heck AOs DJs openly texting with her dates. Yelling etc. But he took the good car which is in his name. She cannot get credit - sound familiar? She has always laughed at me, as my husband was driving longer to work, he always had the best car - she laughed at me and insisted my son get her a high price car - well she ain't got it anymore. He just waited until she was asleep right before he left. Never mentioned taking it. then he took all the keys to the car and replaced them with his older (paid for) car keys. She knew she couldn't pay the car off. So he told her, "it can be repo'd or I can pay for it and drive it." He is sending me the Excel worksheets for you to really look at what the child support would be. Do not expect maintenance - it is not common - all the D sahms I know were made to go to work, unless they had children under school age.

My advice is not to talk about divorce with anyone. Tell your lawyer to pause it. Plan A your wife, and even if she is cake eating, she will drop her guard. Either the A will die. (Did you tell me about OM's OW? Have to go and read?) or she will have to go pursue the divorce, and you will be able to work a great plan A so she stops being suspicious. It is in your hands.

You know how to say - "I want to save this marriage, I am sick of lawyers and divorce talk. I will prove to you I am what you want and can look after you better".


Anyway - that's my rant for now - sorry, *climbing down from soapbox* ouch I need new knees.

Linda

EL, I am so sorry, I would have divorced her years ago. But now i would get a PI and track her sleeping with the OM. Film it. Like I told you months ago. you need all you can get for court.

I am sorry you put up with the lying cheating ho for so long.....wayyyyyyyy too long if you ask me.

HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP!

I got served papers today at work at 4:00 pm. I was in a meeting and walked right out and drove home. I could not believe it. She had went Tuesday and filed for D. I am floored. My heart is ripped out.

I do not know what to do now. I tried to talk with her today. She felt I put her into a corner and said MB or leave. Says she filed to protect herself from me kicking her out and taking our S away from her and keeping the house. Well, the D papers say that while this is all working out, she gets the house, S and I leave but pay CS, maintenance, bills etc.. She also wants fair division of property. There is also a demand that I do nothing with finances (buy things, start an off shore account). She actually pointed this clause out to me and mentioned off shore accounts!!!! Is she living a fantasy world or what?

I tried to talk to her and explain that I did not put her into a corner Monday night. I did not demand she MB. I said that because she choose to not investigate ANY type of plan to save our M, I was left with no choice but to agree with her that she finds another place to live.

I told her I do not want a D. I asked and tried to talk it through that we should try to investigate something to make our M great together since we NEVER actually worked together to make our M great before. Either one or the other worked while the other did not before. I asked how can we D without actually having both of us try (at the same time) to make our M great.

She finally said, "I am done talking about this. There is nothing new you are saying. I am not going to go back and forth on this. I am going to take a bath." I sat there destroyed for about 5 minutes. Then I walked up to the bathroom and she was running water and was just putting her cell phone away (most likely from texting).

Then I tried to talk to her again and lost it and cried. She said, "You are where I was two years ago and I am now at the point where I have moved on. You would not listen to me over the last 5 months that I did not like MB and did not believe in it, yet you kept pushing me. Well, maybe SH can help you now!" I said, "Please don't throw any more daggers. Its not necessary. I am already crushed." I also said, "How can you be so unemotional through all of this?" She said, "You have no idea! Don't you dare try and tell me I am not emotional. You have no idea. I am just not emotional in front of you!" I said, "Why? I am the father of your child?" She said, "Well, I don't trust you so I am not going to show you my emotions. I guess I'll drain the water since you are not going to let me take a bath." I left her alone and went and held our S.

After a while I brought S down stairs and made him dinner. W came down and sat with S. I kept loosing it (crying) so I kept going in the other room. I came back into the kitchen and W and S were gone. She brought him upstairs into our bed. I went upstairs and said, "You are watching TV up here?" W said, "Both S and I are not feeling well and I asked him if he wanted to. Besides, we thought we would give you some alone time." NO ******!!!!!! You are about to give me a ton of ALONE FRIC**** time!

I went back downstairs and then went back upstairs and asked her for 5 minutes. She came downstairs and I said, "Look, the document you sent me says I need to be in court next Tuesday. I am going to have to get a lawyer." She said, "You already got one." I said, "No, I got a consult, but did not retain one." She said, "Its the same thing." I said, "Well, I am going to have to pay a $1500 retainer." She said, "That is rediculous! I did not have to pay for my consultation and my retainer is only $700. You are getting ripped off!" I said, "Look, I am not making this up. I need to pay $1500 before Tuesday. This means I need to now handle where my check goes." W said, "Great! so now you just spent the last $300 I had in the checking account and I am left with nothing!" She actually got chocked up. I said, "That is not what I am saying. I need to stop the direct deposit and open a new account." She said, "That is stupid. The money goes into a joint account and you can see where it goes. I have the bills setup to be directly taken out of the checking account. So, you think I have $1800 in my checking and this should just be fine for S and I. Great! Nice!" I said, "What does this mean: Temporary care, custody, and parenting time of the minor child of the parties." She said, "It means that this is S's house." I said, "It is S's house, your house and my house. Can't we agree to 50%/50% custody?" She said, "I told you I am not trying to leave the State. I am not going to try and go to Wisconsin. You are his father and you should be a part of his life." I said, "Then why can't we agree to 50/50?" She said, "I am not going to agree to anything with you and I am not going to let you bully me into anything."

She went upstairs and now I am crying.....................

Please help!!!!!!!!

She is a controlling sneaky ho. I am so sorry you have to even be associated with such a person, she is horrible and just cares about the money.

Get on board with your attorney i guess. I wish you had done that years ago.....I am sorry. Be as good to your precious self as you can. Dont do anything stupid because you feel trapped. Once you get past all this you will find a loving woman who you would not meet had you stayed with this cheater and liar.

Relax tonight and call the attorney tomorrow. Good luck. In the long run you will be OK.

Ok here is the good lawyers name and number Dennis F McCrosson 317-791-7800.

I don't know if he will be free, to help you but he might be able to give you some advice.

Call him tomorrow, use my name Linda, the English woman, I don't want to put my whole name on here.

He will set you straight and explain everything. What you got is what she is asking for, not definately what she wil get.

Or you can email me and we can talk. I will try to get hold if him at home.

I just left a message on his home phone. If he calls me back I wil ask his opinion - strangely enough he is pro marriage, suggested all sorts of things my son could do before he gave up and relegated himself to divorce..

I don't know if he has any magic, but it is the least I feel I can do.

Linda

Thank you SilverPool,

I am so crushed right now. I love her so much (I know a lot of people are going to call me stupid or something). I can't help but feel throughout this whole thing there has been a tragic misunderstanding. She said she filed because she felt I put her into a corner and she had to protect hersefl and S from getting thrown out of the house.

I would never do anything to hurt her. I brought this up today. I said I was still so sad she feels she does not know if I would do something to her physically or not. She said this is how she feels. I said holding up the D papers, "This is the worse thing you could have done to me and I am sitting in front of you talking calmly. I could NEVER hurt you. I love you."

I was on the phone with my mom a few minutes ago and she came down stairs and got something out of the kitchen. As she looked at me I said, "I love you." She turned and went upstairs. I guess she is trying really hard to be unemotional. I love her so much and hurt for her as well as S and myself.

I keep going through all the good times in my mind, all the times that made me love her more and more. I have this overwhelming feeling that my M can still be saved for some reason and I don't know how now. I thought I actually got through (or almost got through to her) when I first tried to ask for us to work together. She has been texting quite a bit tonight. Getting support to hang in there and stick it out now that she pulled the trigger, I'm sure. I hate the fact that there are a bunch of people pulling against us out there. However, I am happy that my W has some support during emotional times because she won't let me support her, although I so want to.

Is this M savable? Can it still be turned around? I feel so outside of MB and I have left messages the last two days and cannot get ahold of SH. I am so emotionally stunned right now. I am ok, then in tears.

She had to of filed Tuesday morning and then acted normal Tuesday night and Wednesday night. She called me on Wednesday and texted me today. She texted me a message that could have waited til I got home and I thought it was some kind of test. Looking back on it, I know understand we would not be in a position to talk about anything else tonight.

So how do I save this? I know from the lawyer I spoke with that she is going to most likely get maintenance, CS, the house and S during the time the D is being sorted. This pretty much means she is going to have it exactly how things are now with me out of the picture. There is no life lesson in this and leaves me with not much hope for MB working out.

Here is what the document is asking for:

She requests the following provisional orders:

a) Temporary care, custody, and parenting time of the minor child of the parties;

b) Temporary child support order;

c) Temporary division of debts;

d) Temporary division of property;

e) Restraint of the parties from transferring, encumbering, concealing, or in any way disposing of any of the property of the parties;

f) Temporary spousal maintenance and,

g) Preliminary attorney's fees.

Nice, eh. The court date is for next Tuesday, day after Sweetest day! Also, she knows Haloween is my favorite holiday and had to ruin this for me too. Its no wonder her dad and family are comming for visit on halloween weekend. She knew I would not be there for the visit.......

I wish we could call this off and work on things.

I am so sad right now.....

Help......

EL

I can only suggest your lawyer or whoever you use will get on the stick. You didn't email me so I guess you do not want any other help.

I think she jumped on a golden opportunity to make you feel this D is your fault and she innocently misunderstood what you said and cannot go back now.

I think she is scheming and has been all along. So you can do your plan B if she gets you out. It will give you some emotional independence, but I bet the best bit will be when she finds out her boyfriend is not as faithful to her as she thinks, I can't stop thinking she has been snowed - if she wasn't looking to reem you, she might have had her eyes open. Ya know what? She or her lawyer are reading your thread - I bet they are - have you said to her that you are worried she might take your S out of state?

reply now or email me - that will not be public - she has known your every move - this is too convenient - you always kept on the edge, her always calm, right on schedule. Darn she might be one of the girls my DIL has been running around with, they cheat on their husbands .... her little bit of acting that softens you each time you tell us you love her or feel sorry for her ...

walks like a duck - quacks like a duck .....

Linda

I am not going to suggest any more on here, they don't need any more help ... you have some decisions to make

SilverPool,

For somereason my email is not working on my laptop. I'll try a few things.

Thanks,

EL