ok - who else has access to it - call me paranoid but I have been there ...

Yikes. I'm sorry EL. I'm glad silverpool is helping you out with the legal advice.

I really, really wish you would stick to facts on this. It will help keep you focused, and help you avoid pitfalls in this situation. You have a tendency both to make up things about what is going on in your wife's mind, and to make statements about yourself that are not really true. Try to stick to the facts.

thanks MOS. Difficult times for my family right now. I would not have wished this on anyone. I pray we can get through this, but it is getting difficult to have this much faith. My faith is definitely being tested right now.

Its funny how she is not showing much emotion or remorse. I know she has a big heart, so this is weird for me. You would think the finality of what she has started would atleast cause her to show me more emotion and some kind of "sorry honey" type talk. Instead, I get harsh, cold, dug in.

Aaaaaaand that's exactly what I was talking about when I said I wish you'd stick to the facts. Your love of speculating about her motives has created endless problems for you, and yet you keep doing it.

There's nothing funny or mysterious about her guard over her emotions -- she told you exactly why she is doing it; she's been too hurt for too long and she gave up and is guarding her heart from you.

"Its funny how she is not showing much emotion or remorse. "

Hey, lying, cheating connivers rarely show any remorse.

Because they don't really love you they love the other lover. They show emotion to the other lover they are in love with-NOT YOU.

She does not feel in love with you. She is not emotionally in love with you. She wants you gone and wants the money. And then she wants to date who she wants to, have sex without hiding it from you with other men.

She gets it all and you get to support her in her affair. Get a mean butted lawyer RIGHT AWAY TOMORROW MORNING.

She has you all lined up and hung out to dry and then she is blaming it all on you asking her to go to an MB seminar???????

You need to protect yourself and your rights with the child. Forget her. She is into the other man now and not into you.

She is a cheater, lyer, ho, user, and manipulates you and makes you feel bad. She is a real downer man. She has not loved you for many years if at all.

Your wife is treating you worse than anyone should treat a DOG. She is cruel. And cold. Her true colors are coming out finally. And it is not pretty. She is not a nice person. On any level.

{{{{{{{EL}}}}}}}}


I'm so sorry, my friend.


What you do now is CYA as fast as you possibly can, I'm afraid.


I won't beat you up, but I'll just tell you that this type of conversation, in general, is not going to help you. Granted, it might not really hurt things all that much, but it's a waste of oxygen and possibly even focus that might be better elsewhere.


No, El. This isn't a misunderstanding although it is certainly tragic.

Basically, it's your answer to the question of whether or not your wife is ever going to come on board and work on the marriage. You asked her to make a simple choice -- she investigated her optoins (which any reasonable person would do in her position) and, unfortunately due to your state laws, this option looked the best to her.

I suppose you could have never said anything and preseved the deteriorating status quo -- with her never engaging and probably continuing escalating independent behaviors (aka the doormat lifestyle) and if she was content enough or didn't run into some other impetus, she might not have filed. But, sit back, just a moment and think about where that would leave you?

I'm not going to say that this is a good thing because it's not. And, right now, maybe you'd choose never knowing this hard truth over finally getting a concrete answer from her instead of an endless stream of "I don't knows."

But, I will say this: It is my firm belief that no matter how much extra "time" you would have given this, your wife would not have come on board. It's clear that she has indeed "moved on" and was simply staying around for reasons other than hope that the marriage would survive or flourish. She has been consistent with that message.

You've said in the past that you would rather know one way or another because you know you could survive if it came to divorce. Don't loose faith in that now.


Talk to SH. I imagine that he'll say to prolong the move out as long as legally possible and then, when you do move out, go to a very dark Plan B. Also, take whatever steps you can take to prolong the divorce -- assuming that won't bankrupt you or something.


It's not over until it's over.

Why don't you seriously consider taking the day off. You don't have to stay home. Maybe just go somewhere and do something that de-stresses you?


Fight for as much as you can. Be aggressive. "Most likely" is not a done deal.


You ask for custody, too. Or, as much custody as you can. And, child support.


Don't make too much of the court date, EL. I'm sure she wasn't thinking of Sweetest day when it was scheduled - it's simply the first open day on the docket.


I know, you've always wished she'd work on things but, El, she's told you "No, I won't" over and over and over again. She really doesn't want to improve the marriage -- unless it's for herself through her independent behavior. You can't do anything if someone refuses to participate.


I'm so sorry. {{{{{{{EL}}}}}}


Sorry, El, but I really wouldn't. Right now, she's probably been advised to limit conversations to "just the facts" and not make any verbal agreements with you. You might react the way you described, but I wouldn't. Obviously, your wife wouldn't. There's nothing wrong or abnormal about her acting this way, she's just different than you.

Seriously, though, right now the best thing you can do is stop focusing on what or why she's doing things (and feeling guilty because you "made her do it" ) and start focusing on protecting your custody rights as a father and your financial situation. You don't have to "give up" on your marriage to do that -- but it's really time to stand up and protect yourself as much as possible. Recognize that this is an adversarial filing and be agressive in pursuing as much as you are legally entitlted to.

Mys

On a purely practical note:

Financially:

Make your own checking account to which she does not have access.

DON'T ASK HER FOR MONEY!!! (or if you can spend your money, either) You don't have to justify your expenses to her.


Transfer any automatic bills that you are willing to pay to autodraft from that account as soon as you have it set up.

Don't let her manage the money any more and don't agree to pay for anything that's not directly related to the welfare of your child or house. (hint: her cell phone) Ask your attorney to specifically request an order for her to pay for her car, or sell it and get a cheaper one, etc. Just because she requested there be no disposal of assets doesn't mean that the judge can't order one if you make a good argument.. I don't see why you'd want to keep a $700 car payment when now you have to afford rent.

Offer to get her cheap, safe transportation. There's no reason she needs a Lexus on your dime.

Mys

(((((EL)))))

I am truly sorry that it has come to this. I hate to even get into discussions of what you should do right now because it's only going to make this hurt more for you.

It's probably best we give you a little time to get your legs under you before we point out where your thinking is hurting you.

Right now priority #1 is protecting yourself. CYA as Mys says.

Priority #2 is stop trying to talk your W through anything. It's time for you to go quiet. To leave her be and for you to get busy protecting yourself. If you want to have any chance of saving this (which I'm starting to question 'why' given what we've seen from her lately) then stop having these conversations where you're trying to entice her back. She's said it feels like your pushing and pushing. So stop it. Go dark. She isn't expecting that. All conversations should go through your lawyers (get a good one, a real shark, like the one SP has been recommending).

Priority #3 concentrate on your S. If he isn't aware what has happened I'm sure he can see the conflict in your home and he's sure to be concerned. Give him reassurance that he's loved.

Please take care of yourself. Take some time off work. Get your ducks in a row and just get away for a few hours. Give yourself some time to dispose of this anguish you are feeling. Then get yourself centered and strenghtened for what lies ahead.

Again, I am sorry it has come to this. I truly wish your W was more forgiving and willing to try to work on the M. I'm uncertain whether it is her inability to forgive that has stopped any progress or whether she is in a bit of a FOG. Either way you need to take back what she's pulled from you; you and your ability to be happy and content with you. Your life does hang in the balance because of this woman who is incapable of forgiving and too immature to make a conscious choice to work with someone she vowed to work with. You are a good guy EL and if your W can't see that it's her loss. You can move on from this and find happiness. You can make a clean break and find someone who is a better M partner. You can't fix her and she obviously doesn't want to be fixed.

Try to go into Plan B mode NOW!!! Do not engage her and allow yourself to be treated this way. The woman and wife you knew no longer exists; work on acceptance. Your focus NOW is you and your DS.

When you do get a lawyer, tell them that you want full custody also. Mention the vehicle in questions, with viable alternatives that are safe and effective modes of transport. Your son is your focus now. He needs his father, not part time, but as much as the two 'adults' can possibly manage. KEEP YOUR COOL. NO MORE BEGGING!!! You mentioned wanting your 'manhood' back--Well, it's time to recapture that.

My H EASILY agreed to every other weekend and one day a week. Too easily. If you want to spend time with S, then that is what you ask for, NO LESS. Her filing is just her say. Your counter to that will be your say. Then let the lawyers start boxing! Go as dark as you can right now. It will be good for your soul. Please focus on you, take care of yourself. Let us know your progress. We're here.

{{{{{{{{{{{EL}}}}}}}}}}}

Oh El.

I'm just crushed for you. I feel really sick for you about all of it.

(((((((EL))))))))

I'm praying for you and your son.

So sorry to hear it has come to this.

Time to lawyer up. No talking to her except about logistic with S. Anything you say can be used against you. And it looks like she will.

Please be really careful about taking care of your rights, EL.

The others are right -- the requests from your wife and the estimates of worst-cases don't necessarily represent what has to happen. Make your own assertive requests back. Get a lawyer who will take the best care of you, since your wife has one taking care of her.

Not just for you, but for your son -- he needs you like crazy right now to protect your rights, and through your rights, his. And give the little guy lots of hugs too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Be careful out there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the kind thoughts everyone. This is a really difficult time for both WW and I. I know, for whatever reason, WW believes she is doing the right thing for her and I believe I am doing the right thing for me. Unfortunately, some of the "normal" or expected things come across to the other as so harsh. It is only natural because of the nature of the things we are being told to do by lawyers etc.. I just retained a lawyer this afternoon. I could not meet with her yet, other than the consult she gave me Wednesday afternoon. Its really difficult for me because I went to see this lawyer to understand both WW's rights and my own. I wanted to make sure I was not going to hurt her or me. It was all very above board.

Then the next day I recieve the papers.......

I found out today we are getting a fair amount more back from 2005 state tax returns than we expected. I came home and had a thought of paying off WW's Lexus. I thought this would be a nice thing, plus after thinking about it, it would help with cash flow if things actually ended up where one of us had to move out and we had to somehow carry a mortgage and rent at the same time. This was completely above board on my end and her first sentence was, "Why? so you can then sell it out from under me?" Why do we have to be here in this adversarial position. I love this woman. I guess I would let her walk all over me because I love her. Not that I wish to be a door mat, but I just want her to be happy.

A year ago, MOS challenged me on my saying I just want my W to be happy. I can actually say that I want her to be happy now. I hope we can start to be friends again.

EL

El,

I know you don't like being adversarial and you want to be a good guy, but it just doesn't make any sense to pay off her lexus at this point.

Ya know?

Mys

I understand how you feel, but the problem is that she's not likely to reciprocate your good will. Right now, it might be better for you to think of your son's welfare before your wife's welfare. She's going to do what she has to do -- and so will you.

Mys

Apart from that, howya doin'

Linda

"No answer" was the stern reply. Silence reigned and we all got wet.

Linda

Hey guys,

I'm hanging in there. Trying to not get drawn into discussions that get us into trouble. I feel bad that I end up looking like a calculating difficult person when I have to do certain things to protect myself and S. I understand it is a pretty emotional and difficult time for all of us right now. I just wish WW could see that I am not the liar or scheemer or horrible person she thinks I am, or that her support structure is telling her I am. I do not know what will show her this other than time. I have learned through life that as time heals all, it also tends to reveal the "real" truths eventually. Therefore, I do hold comfort in my own heart that in time, WW will finally see that I have remained true to her and all we had believed in.

Thanks for your kind words.

EL

Well, realistically, there's no way on earth you could be trusted to look out for her best interests at this point, and she'd be whacko to think otherwise.

The same holds true in reverse.

Accept that you each need to advocate as best you can for your own interests. If you persist in seeing such efforts on your wife's part as attacks on you, then expect her to see such efforts on your part as attacks on her.