Ok, we can agree to disagree on the question of due diligence and what reasonable options were. I think you are not just mistaken, but grossly and horribly mistaken about what you choose to require of someone living under the shadow of physical intimidation.

All right.


Grossly and horribly mistaken? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Goodness. That upsets me some because I do value your opinion. (Or maybe 'upset' isn't the right word... gives me pause to think might be more accurate.)

I'd be interested in why you feel that way if you care to share (I won't argue with you about it, I promise). And, as this is a largely 'value based' emotional response it certainly isn't objective (hence my description of it as a bias).

I'm not sure that "require" is quite the right word to describe my feelings about this issue. I wouldn't say I "require" due dilligence. I wouldn't even say I "expect" due dilligence. What I actually said is that I'm biased because I believe she hasn't performed due dilligence which, according to my definition (misguided or otherwise), is true.

All of that really amounts to not a whole lot. It doesn't really change my advice to El. It would affect any advice I happened to give to Mrs. El (which would be to perform due dilligence along the lines I mentioned above) but I guess when you come right down to it, I'm in no position to "require" anything from either party.

I guess that's good news. In the event that I'm mistaken, then no harm can come from my bias. In the event that I'm right, then ... well... no harm can come from my bias either. I do choose to reveal my bias because it does affect my potential objectivity (who's really absolutely objective, anyway?). Anyway, "She hasn't done due dilligence." is and was nothing more than a statement of my opinion -- not of absolute objective fact unless you count it a 'fact' that it is my opinion.

A summary of my advice to El would be:

- vigorously advocate for what is in your best interest

- protect yourself

- don't sell yourself short because you feel guilty or as though you wish to appease your wife

- don't expect her to sell herself short -- expect her to vigorously advocate for herself (It's not realistic to expect her to look after your interests)

- conduct yourself in a responsible, ethical way


I'd be perfectly happy to turn that around and offer substantially the same advice to Mrs. El, as well. Though my bias might include some language about exploring whether or not she's really availed herself of all the opportunities to keep her family intact. I'd encourage her to delay or stop the divorce proceedings until such time as she's certain she's done that.

I don't think you and I are far apart on the practical aspects of the situation (we usually aren't). I think we just have different biases, perhaps.


Mys

I realized that I should probably detail another piece of my point of view:

Any statement to the effect of "It was Mrs. EL who chose divorce; that was all her doing" sounds stark raving bonkers to me.

Here's why.

Mrs. EL saw her marriage in deep trouble. She and her husband had once upon a time decided to invest in only one career rather than two. So long as they were reasonably happily or functionally married, they would both theoretically reap equal benefits of investing in one career. When both choose to invest in one career, the intention is usually that they both own it equally. However, when the marriage hits trouble, that often breaks down, and the at-home partner often finds themself on the short end of the stick, and what was "ours" suddenly isn't anymore.

So as a prudent SAHM with a child to care for, she did the responsible thing -- when her marriage was obviously in trouble, she checked into the laws in her state and consulted a lawyer. In the process she found out that should the situation come to divorce, her rights would be substantially reduced if she either moved out or got a job. This is important for her to know if she's going to have any chance of taking care of her responsibilities to her child.

Then her husband starts talking about Plan B. She comes here and checks out what that means. She finds out that the plan for Plan B in their case involves asking her to move out and to get a job, the very things that would do her great harm in the event of divorce proceedings. She knows from past experience that her husband will harass her pretty mercilessly if he chooses. She sees here that he is planning separation of finances that puts him in sole control of "his" income -- all of a sudden they don't jointly own the one career anymore. He says he won't let her and her son want, but given that their relationship is in a state of breakdown, no responsible mother could gamble on that.

At that point, the only responsible choice that I can see is to initiate divorce proceedings to make sure the rights of herself and her son are protected.

Under such circumstances, any pretense that the divorce was all her idea sounds just plain insane.

I'm not saying for a moment that she is blameless. I'm pretty disgusted at some of her behavior. But none of that trumps her responsibility to protect her ability to care for her child. I'm sure all of us here feel pretty confident EL would see his son was cared for, but under the circumstances it would be utterly irresponsible for Mrs. EL to gamble on that assumption. She can choose to gamble on her own future, but it wouldn't be right to gamble on her son's.

EL, as best I can figure, you had no idea what a difficult position your Plan B plans would put your wife in. I know I didn't. If that is the case, I think it's worth telling her that, and asking her if there are circumstances under which she would like to stay married.

Note "that she would like to stay married", not "that she would grudgingly be willing to stay married".

If there are, then you can consider whether what she would consider viable is viable for you. It may not be. For example, she might refuse to break off contact with the OM. Then again, she might agree to do so, and what would work for her might work for you. Asking might be a good idea.

bump