Simple enough answer to a simple question. Because when you relay how wonderful your game of Russian roulette turned out to a BS that is in a very vulnerable emotional place... she may actually take that story and apply it to her own situation... and act in a way that can harm her. I really don't care that your opinion is any different than mine... what I do care about is any person that comes on here and by reading your rosy story about playing with fire, might encourage another to do the same. It's worse than those that come here and give excuses for not having firm NC... and just because their M survived that game... etc. You are being grossly unfair to anyone that might be looking to you for advice.

YER SO FUNNY HONEY!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MEDC:

I don't want you to think that I am being rude or that I am ignoring you. I did read your post. However, as I told you, I'm not talking with you about THIS anymore.

WONDERINGS:

Now, Mariah Carey..that's a different story...

Ok. I'm holding back..not on this thread..

LATER....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MEDC - I have asked my husband for STD testing. I think it is the least he owes me. I know very little about OW but I do know her profile was on a dating agency on the internet, so I'm not prepared to take the risk. My health is of the utmost importance to me, especially since my husband is chronically ill.

However, upon Dday, through my tears and despair, I remember feeling incredibly horny. STD's were the further thing from my mind. I just wanted sex with him but he wasn't having any of it because he was so 'in love'. I think that it might be a type of BS fog - to want your partner back at any cost. It is obvious that people do mad things when Affairs come into their lives - suicide, stalking etc.

Incidentally, Mariah Carey's concert got cancelled in HK yesterday at a day's notice due to lack of interest.

I hope all the newbies think about this carefully. I've known 2 betrayed wives here who DIED of cervical cancer. Did they get it from their cheating husbands? Only God knows.

We also have a betrayed husband whose cheating wife (who was a nurse) DIED of AIDS. I don't know if she got it from a tatoo, or her partners. She left behind a devastated husband and daughters.

Sometimes our choices can kill us. I chose NOT to have sex with my WH when I found out about his sleazy choices. I also lost him. I made the decision that I COULD have a life without him.

Oh my Goodness!! What is HK? Hong Kong? It was SOLD OUT where I was!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

yeah, but how hard is it to sell out a Bennigan's?

From MARIAH DAILY: ( I had just gone over to that site to check this out, BTW)

"For Mariah, this is particularly unfortunate given her recent sold-out, critically acclaimed tours of the United States and Japan."


Dang it! I wish could have caught her at Bennigan's. The tickets probably would have been a lot less expensive!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Adding my 0.2c as always.

SF was our bond and the way we re-established intimacy. If my H had refused SF with me, we'd be divorced now.

Mimi has it right. If the main EN that the OP was meeting was SF you'd have to be NUTS to hold that back.

Interesting that it's the recovered people who have that opinion.

really. Well, KiwiJ. I am recovered and happier than ever... just so happens it is not with my WP. So, if you had a PA and your H chose to protect himself... you would be divorced. How quaint.

MEDC,

Just a quick question. Has someone close to you been impacted by a STD? It seems that this is a very deeply felt subject to you.

yes.
But that is not the reason for my thoughts. I express how I feel and react to people when they are advocating or supporting ridiculous behaviors. And the way I look at the world... is I feel empathy for anyone that is impacted by the hurtful and inconsiderate acts of others.
If a BS is given a choice and they decide to take a risk anyway, I may think their actions are entirely ridiculous... but that is their choice. When a vulnerable person comes here and here's a rosy story about Russian roulette, I want to make sure that the Mimi's of the world are balanced out with some common sense... otherwise a person might do something they will regret later based on her story.

MEDC:

You are VERGING on a PERSONAL ATTACK.

That is not OK here on this site.

I feel that you are CHARACTERIZING ME and STEREOTYPING ME in ways that are not helpful.

The point is, I think that this is a valuable and important topic to consider without it being tarnished with personal attacks.

I was thinking over the past day that maybe its a FACT of HUMAN NATURE or of HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS that there are a group of people that are willing TO RISK THEIR LIVES FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR MARRIAGES and then there is a group of people for whatever reason who are not.

MAYBE THE TWO GROUPS ARE SO DIFFERENT IN THEIR THINKING/VIEWPOINT ABOUT THE NATURE OF LIFE THAT THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND THE OTHER AND NEVER WILL.

It may have to do with a zillion factors in a person's life experience..like for me..modeling myself off of my GM who stayed married to my GF for 71 years..I suspect my GF had an A with her sister...me never being with another man except my H since age 18 and I am now 51..we grew up together...I went from dorm to marriage....JUST A ZILLION FACTORS that might contribute to DIFFERING VIEWPOINTS.

Lives are so COMPLICATED....

How is it different than those who chose to continue to smoke despite their doctors' warnings. I have a friend like that. She also is in the medical field and is very knowledgeable about what she is doing to herself and eventually the impact on her young children if she dies soon... but she very deliberately has made the choice to continue to smoke desite my repeated comments about her cough and probable development of a lung disease. I've decided not to bother her about this anymore because she does feel condemned and put down by me when I talk to her about it.

I believe that it's important to RESPECT a legally competent adult's right to choose when presented with ALL the options...and not to judge a person because their beliefs do not fit with mine...stupid or illogical or not.

Why should I deny my own VERY REAL personal experience?

I really believe in the Harleys' concepts. They fit with who I am. I believe in OPENNESS and HONESTY, not making DJs, no ANGRY OUTBURSTS, etc. That's why I am here so often to keep myself GROUNDED in these principles.

Enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Please agree to disagree and stop this bickering.

Back to Marriage Building.

Sage

WOW, been a long time since I have been around this forum, but I do look in from time to time.
This thread has caught my eye, because I have first hand knowledge of the devastation of contracting an STD.
My story is so old it must be tucked away with the archived posts or something. I can't find it myself.
Point is, and STD is exactly how I discovered my W's ONS with her boss. She nevered confessed or confided in me what had happened, but rather my MD told me what I had after 32 years of M. You can imagine my devastation!!!!!
MEDC makes avery good point, in that, most WS's do not think of the possibilty of a disease and usually do not use protecttion.
Having said that, what then is your form of protection??
Should you risk your health and possibly your life to win back your M, or should your WS get tested before they engage in SF with you again??
I personally feel, it is incumbunt on the WS to be testede before trying to right the M. It is the very least they can do to recompense for the harm that they and they alone have done.
I have HPV now for the rest of my life. I had no choice in this, as my FWW did not reveal what she had done UNTIL I WENT TO DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!
iF YOU ARE a newbie, consider all the facts before yu make a choice about yor health.
For those of you who rolled the dice and won, God Bless, but we don't all win in this game. Thus, I think MEDC has a very good point to consider, and I don't thinik it is unworthy!!!
Jerry

well said, I am so sorry for what you have had to go through at the hands of your WW. It is people like you that make this real... sadly... you are right... that gift will be with you always.
Thanks for your input.

Personally..my issue is the denial or disregard of the variables.

I have read most of this thread and notice that the primary issues have become the accepted standard and so people are arguing for or against what is unknown at the time the decisions is being made.

For example...You have already had sex with your WS before you knew about the A...so you have been exposed to all you CAN be exposed to..right?

WRONG. You don't know what your WS will do tomorrow or what they did last night...you have even LESS ability to accurately predict the OPs recreational activities. Maybe they visit hookers in their spare time..maybe you weren't exposed to an STD on Tues but by Thurs you have been exposed to HIV.

Am I saying this WILL be the case? Certainly not..I am saying that it absolutely COULD be the case and the BS has no way to measure that risk. It's rationalization pure and simple. Luckily..a lot of people get away with it. The fact that they are not burned by the matches they have been playing with in no way diminishes the risks they took.

The ONLY certainty is that sex with a WS is high risk behavior.

You as a BS do NOT know what they have or what the future holds.

Maybe you will have SF with them..no one will contract an STD and you will recover unscathed.

Maybe they have an STD but it's treatable or at least not life threatening and with a few adjustments you are able to recover and live a fullfilling life together satisfied with your choice.

Maybe it is terminal..but you spend the remainder of your lives together and have a bittersweet Romeo and Juliet experience.

This is the risk that Mimi often expresses that she was both aware of and willing to embrace. I believe her.

It's not the worst case scenario though is it?

Plenty of people have had sex with the WS and were ultimately rejected anyway.

Still willing to assume that risk if success is not certain?

How about if they give you an STD and leave you anyway?

How do you feel about explaining your searing case of herpes to your new date? Think they'll be enthusiastic about that prospect for themselves when they don't love you yet and aren't so invested they can just pull out?

How about if they give you a terminal illness and STILL leave you and you die alone, broke, and you have children who will now be orphans.

Still sound like a good plan?

To a very few people it might. They may have nothing to lose that they aren't willing to lose in the gamble.

Maybe even the ATTEMPT to recover the marriage is worth the risk.

For most people though...if you asked them they would say they are NOT willing to take that gamble. Then they do anyway by rationalization of the risks...using pretended "facts" to sooth themselves into drinking from a bottle that is clearly marked as poison..and hoping that it doesn't kill them. Very WS behavior...you want to know how your WS took their pants off despite the cost...look in the mirror and listen to what you tell yourself while you do the same thing.

When I look at the list of known consequences I can't see the choice to engage in sex with a WS as anything short of passive suicide with a whopping dose of denial.

Your mileage may vary. If you are really lucky it won't cost you more than you are willing to pay. If you aren't it could cost you everything. High stakes in this game to be willing to walk in ignorantly fingers crossed.

Noodle.... I could not have said it better.

Here endeth the lesson.

last word