THAT's right, it's NOT your fault, NG.

It's OK about telling your parents...you NEED moral support!

It's perfectly understandable that you wanted to trust your WW. Just be thankful that you couldn't trust her in light of that nagging doubt in the back of your mind. She had done her darnedest to quiet it for you, by making you question YOUR actions instead of hers. Very sneaky. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

NOW you know. Info is power.

~ Marsh

BTW: What kind of mother does she have to help her screw a married neighbor? ACK!

NG - Just from reading on-line, it doesn't look like adultery makes any difference in Nevada as far as divorce. But check with your attorney.

Are you thinking of trying to get custody of the children?

whats happening to you is NOT "fair"....but neither is life....

someone around here has a saying on their posts that goes something like "good decisions come from experience...experience comes from bad decisions"

this is NOT the first time you have gone through this....

use the experience that you have gained to your benefit....she got caught because she is a FOOL....the jails are full of stupid crooks....

be smart..... be calculated...... BE A GOOD DAD!!!

protect yourself financially and PROTECT your kids....

if you think about it...she handed you a tremendous amount of power over her with the tape recording and PI info...

use it wisely...

as far MIL's.......mine was no different....

"the nuts dont fall too far from the tree"....

peace out!

Absolutely I don't want to lose my kids if we have to D.

I just played football with a pack of neighborhood kids at the park; man that felt good! I'll check in when I can to see if anyone has any brilliant ideas about reversing time or something... :-)

Okay, I am thinking very carefully about this. It seems to me that you have been a very decent husband. You have done a good Plan A, spend time alone with her, have been supportive of her dreams.... But it doesn't seem to be working.

Sometimes I think some women don't have enough problems. They get bored, and want to stir up a little excitement. It is obvious that she hasn't fallen in love with this neighbor little by little. It is more like a game, or looking for validation by using her charm. But going to a hotel with him is so drastic.

I'm wondering if you shouldn't go to Plan B. Maybe you and OM's wife should both pack their bags, and deliver them to the hotel.

I hope some others will pitch in here. It seems that what you have been doing is NOT working. It might be time to do something else.

Not a bad idea.

I was thinking along the same lines.

~ Marsh

NG:

Have you and the Neighbor W across the street thought about preventing the whole meeting tommorrow? Just completly throw a monkey wrench into the morning.

Park your cars two blocks away.

Cancel the room reservation, if there is one.

Make sure that "kid" is sick and they can not go?

Or take the kids to your parents and leave them overnight. Then no car in the morning?

Throw away or hide cell phones?

Meet OMW on the porch before departure time to see what happens if no car is available?

Then confront both of them?

This is contrary to earlier advise, but why let it happen?

You have the proof you need. No need to let them consumate.

Just a thought.

Yes believer, things are going to have to change. It is time for plan B and I truely believe I have done a good plan A. I have tried very very hard. I doubt she has much feeling for him other than sexual excitement but I could be wrong.

I'm sitting here thinking how I can ever trust her in the future. How would I ever get over this and trust her again? After her first EA (probably PA knowing what I know now), I tried to reconnect, worked my butt off, she changed her cell # and started to check in with me all the time. Then she started another EA on a night where she went out with her friends. For the next 6 months I plan A'd again not knowing that she was in this EA. Worked HARD! Then I discovered this second A/EA and went into MB counselling. Things seemed to get better. Plan A'd some more (up until today) Ate lunch every day with her. Learned to cook for her. Started to do more and more housework. All along the way if I ever expressed a concern she *punished* me emotionally. Always telling me I just couldn't "get over" things. Telling me I was feeling sorry for myself "boo fing hoo, H's life isn't perfect" was one of the more painful things she said. I would always be left feeling devastated like she was going to leave me. She'd typically let me feel this way for a day or two and the slowly warm up again.

I know its not to decide for now but the fact that I cannot see any way to ever trust her again means I have to do what might help me in case we have to D. I have to let her go.

We did the "check in with each other all the time" thing to rebuild trust after the first A and she still cheated. The night she started her second (that I know of) A, she called me 3 times from the place she was at with her friends.

But I won't mention D tomorrow. I'm just going to let things unfold and let her do the talking. I plan to ask her to leave the house so maybe I'll pack her things up after she leaves. I have counselling on Monday so I'll get some advice on how to proceed from there.

She is being sooo "normal" right now. Checking in with me. Asking how the kids are doing. Called 3 times and sent 2 TMs today. BLEAH!

Lousy Golfer - I was thinking about that too. But NG is still left with a WW who continues to march. The OM will find a way for them to meet.

Harley gives the advice that the first affair can be overcome, but more than one tends to make the BS lose their love for their WS.

NG has been thinking he is near recovery, and now this. That is what made me stop caring for my husband. He stood up in Church, asking for everyone's prayers, and that same night, I caught him and OW in bed together.

LG thats what I wanted to do, OMW wants evidence. I suspect W would drop it immediately; thats been her MO for the past two A's. Thats why she has never felt any consequences.

But it seems wrong for me to let this happen. You see the whole picture now LG. Please, all, think about this. I don't want to regret letting this happen but I don't want to regret not having any evidence to get custody of my kids if I have to in the future.

The evidence I have now is unusable and deniable.

On the computer, it says that Nevada law is no fault, or 2 years of "insanity" for divorce. The fact that your wife meets men in the hotel may not count toward her being a bad mother. The court will decide what is best for the children. Check with your lawyer.

Also, see if the OM's wife will check out MB. That could help. As far as I'm concerned, planning to meet in a hotel is enough proof. I found hotel bills while WH was supposed to be at work. He said he went alone to "think". When I caught him and OW in hotel room, he said they went there to "break up". The infidels ALWAYS think of an excuse.

Ah so extra evidence will do me no good anyway. Does it matter in custody hearings? Maybe we can stop them before they enter the room?

As far as I'm concerned I need no further proof either. There is no doubt what is happening.

She told me she's going to get some peace and quiet so she can study and I'm sure that will be her story unless there is proof. But if proof doesn't matter in Nevada, then why subject our M to further damage of them actually going through with the act...

And, is my letting her do this (hurt herself in the end) what a caring person would do? I don't know. This is a messed up situation and I only have a few hours to decide. It will be hard to read MB after she gets home this afternoon too.

The more I think of it, I believe you need to go to Plan B, or something like James Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" - see below -

Only those who have been rejected by a beloved spouse can fully comprehend the tidal wave of pain that crashes into one's life when a relationship ends. Nothing else matters. There are no consoling thoughts. The future is without interest or hope. Emotions swing wildly from despair to acceptance and back again. Nothing in human experience can compare with the agony of knowing that the person to whom you pledged eternal devotion has betrayed your trust and is now involved in sexual intimacies with a "stranger". . . a competitor . . . a more beautiful or handsome playmate. Death itself would be easier to tolerate than being tossed aside like an old shoe.

If one word must be selected to describe the entire experience, it would be something equivalent to panic. Just as a drowning person exhausts himself or herself in a desperate attempt to grasp anything that floats, a rejected partner typically tries to grab and hold the one who is leaving. This panic then leads to appeasement, which destroys what is left of the marriage.

Let's look for a moment at the other half of the relationship—focusing on the individual who wants out of the marriage. What secrets lie deep within the mind of the woman who has an affair with her boss, or the man who chases the office flirt? Surprising to some, the desire for sex is not the primary motivator in such situations. Something much more basic is operating below the surface.

Long before any decision is made to "fool around" or walk out on a partner, a fundamental change has begun to occur in the relationship. Many books on this subject lay the blame on the failure to communicate, but I disagree. The inability to talk to one another is a symptom of a deeper problem, but it is not the cause itself. The critical element is the way a husband or wife begins to devalue the other and their lives together. It is a subtle thing at first, often occurring without either partner being aware of the slippage. But as time passes, one individual begins to feel trapped in a relationship with someone he or she no longer respects.

Now we begin to see why groveling, crying and pleading by a panic-stricken partner tend to drive the claustrophobic partner even farther away. The more he or she struggles to gain a measure of freedom (or even secure a little breathing room), the more desperately the rejected spouse attempts to hang on.

Perhaps it is now apparent where the present line of reasoning is leading us. If there is hope for dying marriages, and I certainly believe there is, then it is likely to be found in the reconstruction of respect between warring husbands and wives. That requires the vulnerable spouse to open the cage door and let the trapped partner out! All the techniques of containment must end immediately, including manipulative grief, anger, guilt and appeasement. Begging, pleading, crying, hand-wringing and playing the role of the doormat are equally destructive. There may be a time and place for strong feelings to be expressed, and there may be an occasion for quiet tolerance. But these responses must not be used as persuasive devices to hold the drifting partner against his or her will.

To the reader who is desperately in need of this advice, please pay close attention at this point: I'm sure you would not have dreamed of using these coercive methods to convince your husband or wife to marry you during your dating days. You had to lure, attract, charm and encourage him or her. This subtle game of courtship had to take place one delicate step at a time. Obviously, it would not have been successful if you had wept violently and hung on the neck of your lover saying, "I think I'll die if you don't marry me! My entire life amounts to nothing without you. Please! Oh, please, don't turn me down," etc.

Coercing and manipulating a potential marriage partner is like high-pressure tactics by a used car salesman. What do you think he would accomplish by telling a potential customer through his tears, "Oh, please, buy this car! I need the money so badly and I've only had two sales so far this week. If you turn me down, I think I'll go straight out and kill myself!"

This is a ridiculous analogy, of course, but there is applicability to it. When one has fallen in love with an eligible partner, he attempts to "sell himself" to the other. But like the salesman, he must not deprive the buyer of free choice in the matter. Instead, he must convince the customer that the purchase is in his own interest. If a person would not buy an automobile to ease the pain of a salesman, how much more unlikely is he to devote his entire being to someone he doesn't love, simply for benevolent reasons? None of us is that unselfish. Ideally, we are permitted by God to select only one person in the course of a lifetime, and few are willing to squander that one shot on someone we merely pity! In fact, it is very difficult to love another person romantically and pity him or her at the same time.

If begging and pleading are ineffective methods of attracting a member of the opposite sex during the dating days, why do victims of bad marriages use the same groveling techniques to hold a drifting spouse? They only increase the depth of disrespect by the one who is escaping. Instead, they should convey their own version of the following message when the time is right: "John [or Diane], I've been through some very tough moments since you decided to leave, as you know. My love for you is so profound that I just couldn't face the possibility of life without you. To a person like me, who expected to marry only once and to remain committed for life, it is a severe shock to see our relationship begin to unravel. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul-searching, and I now realize that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply can't be done. As I reflect on our courtship and early years together, I'm reminded that you married me of your own free choice. I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage, and obviously, I have to let you go. I'm aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have made you marry me in 1989 [or whenever]. You are free to go. If you never call me again, then I will accept your decision. I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I'm going to make it. The Lord has been with me thus far and He'll go with me in the future. You and I had some wonderful times together, John. You were my first real love and I'll never forget the memories that we shared. I will pray for you and trust that God will guide you in the years ahead."

Slowly, unbelievably, the trapped spouse witnesses the cage door vibrate just a bit, and then start to rise. He can't believe it. This person to whom he has felt bound hand and foot for years has now set him free! It isn't necessary to fight off her advances—her grasping hands—any more.

"But there must be a catch," he thinks. "It's too good to be true. Talk is cheap. This is just another trick to win me back. In a week or two she'll be crying on the phone again, begging me to come home. She's really weak, you know, and she'll crack under pressure."

It is my strongest recommendation that you, the rejected person, prove your partner wrong in this expectation. Let him marvel at your self-control in coming weeks. Only the passage of time will convince him that you are serious—that he is actually free. He may even test you during this period by expressions of great hostility or insult, or by flirtation with others. But one thing is certain: He will be watching for signs of weakness or strength. The vestiges of respect hang in the balance.

If the more vulnerable spouse passes the initial test and convinces the partner that his freedom is secure, some interesting changes begin to occur in their relationship. Please understand that every situation is unique and I am merely describing typical reactions, but these developments are extremely common in families I have seen. Most of the exceptions represent variations on the same theme. Three distinct consequences can be anticipated when a previously "grabby" lover begins to let go of the cool spouse:

The trapped partner no longer feels it necessary to fight off the other, and their relationship improves. It is not that the love affair is rekindled, necessarily, but the strain between the two partners is often eased.

As the cool spouse begins to feel free again, the question he has been asking himself changes. After wondering for weeks or months, "How can I get out of this mess?" he now asks, "Do I really want to go?" Just knowing that he can have his way often makes him less anxious to achieve it. Sometimes it turns him around 180 degrees and brings him back home!

The third change occurs not in the mind of the cool spouse but in the mind of the vulnerable one. Incredibly, he or she feels better—somehow more in control of the situation. There is no greater agony than journeying through a vale of tears, waiting in vain for the phone to ring or for a miracle to occur. Instead, the person has begun to respect himself or herself and to receive small evidences of respect in return. Even though it is difficult to let go once and for all, there are ample rewards for doing so. One of those advantages involves the feeling that he or she has a plan—a program—a definite course of action to follow. That is infinitely more comfortable than experiencing the utter despair of powerlessness that the victim felt before. And little by little, the healing process begins.

This recommendation is consistent with the Apostle Paul's writings in 1 Corinthians 7:15: "But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances. God has called us to live in peace" (NIV). Paul is not authorizing the rejected spouse to initiate a divorce in these instances. He is, rather, instructing a man or woman to release the marital partner when he or she is determined to depart. The advice I have offered today is an expression of that scripture.

Well, that represents my attempt to summarize a basic theme of Love Must Be Tough, which is 212 pages in length. I hope it will be helpful to those who have been struggling to keep a troubled marriage alive. In a broader sense, the principles I have described are not only relevant to husbands and wives in a time of crisis; they are applicable to healthier marriages, too. Indeed, I wish they could be taught to every engaged or newlywed couple in the morning of their lives together. There would be fewer bitter divorces if young husbands and wives knew how to draw their drifting partners toward them, rather than relentlessly driving them away. Respect, you see, is not only vital to rebuilding broken marriages, but to preserving healthy relationships day by day.

Now isn't that just like an author to promise the moon to his readers? All writers have this tendency to overestimate the significance of their views. Books being published today offer everything from 30 more years of life for men or ageless skin for women. Unfortunately, these authors rarely deliver on their promises; they remind me of "Professor Miraculous" in the Old West who sold his Elixir of Life from the back of his covered wagon and then left town ... fast.

Hoping not to fall into the same "cure-all" trap, let me tell you candidly how I feel about the various concepts described in Love Must Be Tough—only one of which is addressed in this letter. Genuine insights into human behavior are not everyday occurrences—at least not for me. Indeed, if one stumbles onto two or three fundamental principles in the course of a lifetime, he or she has done well. The concepts I expressed in this book focus on one of my allotted few. Do they always preserve dysfunctional marriages? Of course not. No one can make that promise. But even in cases where the spark of love has died, the principle of self-respect in the face of rejection holds true. The alternative is usually despair.

Believer, I have read Love must be Tough TWICE in the past week. It truely *resonated* with me.

So I'm setting her free, letting her go and make her own mind up. The plan is to Plan A tonight but do not tell her what I know. Be a great H and Father and then if she doesn't have a change of heart on her own; just let this unfold and go to plan B.

Is this right? Do I have a responsibility to stop her? Will I regret this? These are the questions I'm asking myself.

Awesome article, Believer.

~ Marsh

Actually that book is what convinced me to back off during the past week. Convinced me to tell her to go out and take her time to herself on Sunday(!) I've been trying to "let her free" for the past week but of course thats not long enough for a person to notice a change.

For all I know, they've already been together too. Like I said, he has odd days off so they're both home all day right across the street from each other.

Plan B letter tomorrow? *Should *I *Tell her I know??? What about the OMW who wants her proof? She really doesn't want me to tell W.

You will need to check with your attorney. I'm only looking on the internet. Anyway, they say that some judges frown on adultery, no matter what the law is, and WILL take it into consideration. So be sure to check.

I don't think you should let them go through with it, either. That will be hard on both families. But I'm trying to think of how to proceed without having to disrupt your family and the other family with a lot of craziness.

Also it is not good for men to confront - it may lead to something you wouldn't consider otherwise.

Maybe I'll stay home? I don't *have* an attorney and no time to get one now.

Oh man, she's on her way home now. Please pray for us. I guess the "right" thing would be for me to stop them. Don't know if I'm going to be able to get back on here. Please post your advice/thoughts.

Do something with the kids. Try to leave it alone tonight. If you confront her, the OM will find out and you won't be able to do anything tomorrow. Take your time, and get a plan.

I would figure out how to catch them at the hotel - maybe the OW could go with a friend. Let's wait for more input.

Don't talk to your wife about it. You hold all of the cards right now.