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My IC likened it to being in a muddy puddle, not wanting to be there, and instead of getting out, jumping into another muddy puddle.

Please take this problem as a wake up call. Realize that you are a worthy woman, and deserve a good life. Your husband may join you, but it starts with YOU.

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wow, that makes a lot of sense...that is me...so me...now, what i need to know is how do i make the most of the little time that my H is home? what is the best approach to all of this and how do i handle this in the best way to get him to want to recommit eventhough he is going back overseas? he is only going to be home for 12 days but i am not sure we will be together for all 12 days...ie, he may go see his Mom/Dad while he is here....just need a little guidance...I guess I should find out the truth about whether he slept w/ her or not...but I just need someone to get me on the right path since our time is limited.....


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Mimi, I understand what you are saying, but what am I to do if he does not want to come home in march? I cannot force him to do it...I can't force him to do anything. He is going to have to want this..


You are correct. I totally agree with you. He may not want to come home and you cannot force him.

What is important though is for you to try to make clear to him what YOU want and how YOU are feeling about this...which is not different than what any of us are recommended to do when discovering an affair.

The conversation goes BASICALLY something like this, using your own words: "H, I am concerned about what has happened/is happening in our marriage. It seems to ME that us being apart is a major problem and puts our marriage at MAJOR RISK. In order to insure that our marriage is not further ENDANGERED, I FEEL that we need to work on a plan for us to be together AS A COUPLE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I say this because I LOVE YOU and I have made OUR MARRIAGE A PRIORITY IN MY LIFE...I want to work with you on our problems and I DON'T FEEL that we can do this living apart."

Note the FOCUS on the I STATEMENTS.

Then, give him the opportunity to respond. His response will tell you alot. Don't you think?


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And BTW..this is one of MY FAVORITE PLAN A POSTS by Ark:

I wrote this to familymatters about plan a this am...and then I read sindy post on plan a...so I"m threadjacking myself...

putting out there some of my musings of plan a..


FIRST thing is that I strongly strongly believe that before you even begin plan A...that you make a time limit for it...with plans to go to Plan B...
that for plan b to be effective you must have a good plan a...and for plan a to be effective and have the stamina to hang in there and give so unconditionally you must have a time frame in mind for plan b.....

Plan A is ALL about the assumption that the WS is still in the affair or in contact...
this is your map to navigating those treacherous waters...

it also is your big moment to diffuse all the excuses WS are prone to use to justify their behavior and choices....

and more you can diffuse their blame...

the bs is "always depressed"
the bs "always wants to talk about relationships"
the bs "is controlling"
the bs "yells all the time"
etc....

the more you remove those things...and the more you remove yourself from any powerstruggles of insanse things...

he said she said..
etc...
the more your disengage from arguements..again the more they have look at their own actions and choices....

here's what I told familymatters..One of the biggest mistakes that people make in plan A is that they begin to meet their spouses needs....and still hold on to great expectations of reward and reinforcement from their spouse....

plan a is ALL about learning to give and do for a bit with NO expectation of ANYTHING in return...

the giving of self and gifts with no strings attached....

I have quoted the silly add campaign for some perfume in the 70's here before...but I think it fits....

It went like this ...

"if you want to get someones attention...
whisper."..

plan a is like a whisper of behaviors and actions...
plan a should not be huge demonstrative expressions of love and romance...

WS are incapable of accepting those things...
part of that is that their actions at the time of continuing an affair are NOT loving and lovable...
and they KNOW it..
sometimes they know it better than their BS...who still want to use words like love to them...

so they get resentful
or shut down
or depressed..
or it solidifies their belief that they are so "bad" or so far gone...it feeds into their excuse and defense of unworthiness...

plan a is about filling the home with love and light in other ways...

it about an upbeat environment without the deep doom cloud hanging overhead..

it is about a home filled with children's activities and joy when applicable and it is about inviting and drawing the wS into those times and activities....

and even when they refuse to come in to the joy...the joy goes on without them...

BS that do a good plan a...say they feel like their WS didn't notice..or only was receptive now and then...and then their involvement and particpation increased...

WS that were handed a good plan a...say they watched and noticed EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING....even when the bS thought they didn't notice a thing....

WS are in great turmoil...and human nature is in conflict to take ALWAYS the path of the least resistance.....

the path of least resistance...is withdrawal and wallowing in self loathing and pity..

the path of least resistance is the OP..for they can not judge and force the WS to see their own actions...because they are as guilty as the other....

so plan A'rs.....need to stop ALL relationship talk..
all talk of love...

you do things that are subtle...
like put a CD in that the WS likes...and just enjoy if yourself...and if they enjoy it also...so be it..
even better yet when it is a blast from the past CD...one that speaks of a history...without blatant insistance that the wS remember this or that....

just history...

the person in plan A...needs to be upbeat and charming...they need to see that the BS is capable of fun and joy...because if all they ever see is a BS lost in the pain..then it will solidify their belief that the pain the WS has caused will never go away...and no one can stand to see the pain they have inflicted day after day...(unless psychotic or sadistic)

the person in plan a needs to engage family and friends in fun activites always always always inviting the wS to join in...
they need to see that things can and could be normal again....

plan a can be leaving a love note...but more impressive a joke...
buy an old farside book and make copies of the really really funny ones....
or the old calvin and hobbs.......
and leave those posted about...
WS seek false joy and laughter....
bring them back to real laughter.....

plan a'rs need to learn to babble back to the insanity that Ws say..and give the babble no leverage or "to die for importance"....

plan a'rs need a time limit of doing plan a with a concrete plan when to go to plan b..
the better the plan b..the better the reality of the consequances of plan b...

make plans to things the wS likes to do..
baseball games..
movies
etc..
and when they dont' want to go..
still go and do them..
be up up up up beat...

draw them to you and your home like a moth to a flame...

work on yourself
find an outside interest that gives you some relief ..

expect nothing nothing nothing from the Ws within a limited time period and free yourself in to the ability to give and do for your spouse better than you ever had....

WS are not used to getting thing with no strings attached....
it will confuse and baffle them...but when they try to use the old "your pressuring me excuse"..it will fall on their empty ears..cause they know that has not been the case..

take them a coffee expresso piled high with whip cream...at work or bring it home to them...and leave it for them..
don't badger them to thank you
don't badger them to tell you how much they liked it..
lay it at their feet and walk away whistling...
find the joy in the act of giving and doing and not in the receptiveness....

hard hard hard hard it is......
but set the time frame and go for it....
anyone can do anything for six weeks..
(except ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

and pray for Gods Grace to enter your heart and home...
pray for serenity...
make you house the home where you and the kids and WS would want to be....


become strong...
become confident
become engaging and charming...

realize that YOU the BS are not lovable or desirable..based on your spouses giving or taking of love...
that you stand alone in this world..
lovabe and desirable...inspite of your spouses...


that's why plan A is all about each and every encounter and glimpse in to you and your home life being as engaging and attractive.....


plan a is all about doing what you can to end an affair....
plan a is built on the presumption that they are in contact...
that's why your contact needs to be better and with more value and depth....

this does not mean that you don't set boundaries on what you will tolerate in your life..

you will not "babysit" the kids so she can go with the OP...

you don't condone any contact..
but you don't powerstruggle it either...


if you think your spouse is going to go out with op don't make it easy for them..don't watch the kids...make plans first...and leave him or her with the kids...etc

hope this helps some..
ark


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ok..that sounds really good mimi...thanks..i appreciate that...a lot...


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hey Mimi...I got on the radio today and spoke w/ Joyce and Dr. Harley...he strongly advised that my H come home asap for this marriage to even work. I explained about the contract ending in March and he said it was crucial for him to be home and us be together in order for our marriage to survive. So, I guess my question is, how do I present that to my H so it doesn't come out and sound like an ultimatum?


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You talked to the expert. Good for you!!!!!

I guess you will need to email your husband and tell him that this separation is too hard on the marriage, and you would like him to come home.

See what he says back.

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I say wait to talk to him face to face, saying as I suggested in my previous post.

Howvever, I do have a bias of not being an E-Mail person...


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Mimi - I don't know...... She only has a few days with her husband. Would hate for it to be nothing but arguing. At least if she emails him, she will know kind of what he is thinking.

LoveGod - Any chance you can pay for an hour session with the Harleys? It is expensive, but cheaper than a divorce. This is a critical time for you.

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I see your point, Believer.


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Um, I am not sure what kind of money I have right now. I would have to check. I think it would certainly help me right now. I see my normal therapists tomorrow. He did say, in our last session, that when my H comes home to offer him an "invitation" to make this marriage work. Not an ultimatum. Invite him to have a wonderful life w/ you. I do know, for US Govt reasons, that he cannot, at all, come home until march. I think that is something I can live with. But time will tell and so will his actions. I have to play my cards out very delicately with this and entice him to want to come home and want to make this work. I do not, and I repeat do not, and will not, argue the whole time he is here. I will ask certain questions about what happened and then go from there. But I have promised myself that I will not get angry and yell at him or make demands. That will only drive him away. I am going to make our home safe, fun, upbeat, alive, warm and cozy, and just do my thing. If he wants to join me in my daily activities, then great. If not, then thats ok. I know, in the end, that I am going to be ok. And if he decides that he does not want to come home in march, then I know that at the end of the day I will be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I did everything humanly possible tomake my marriage work. It will be his loss, and another man's gain. I love my H very much and I am still very much in love w/ him but it doesnt mean that I cannot love someone else and be very happy with a man who is willing to commit forever to me. I have emailed my H a few times trying to get some sort of idea of what he is wanting to do but he is in the thick of that war over there, he has had to put it on the "back burner" b/c of everything that he is having to deal with. Dead bodies, coworkers getting shot in the head, drugs/alchohol abuse in his clinic, docs stabbing people in the back, babysitting contract employees who are trying to "work the system" etc etc. And I can respect that. I feel like we should not make any major decisions about our marriage until we are face to face. I will know if this encounter went any further than a few kisses just by looking at him. He cannot lie to me w/o me knowing it. I have known him for too long. So I guess I am stuck in the "holding pattern" until Dec. 11th. Any other suggestions on what I should do when he comes home? You guys have been so great and I really appreciate ya'll keeping up w/ me and responding. You are wonderful!!!


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....MC did say, in our last session, that when my H comes home to offer him an "invitation" to make this marriage work. Not an ultimatum. Invite him to have a wonderful life w/ you. I do know, for US Govt reasons, that he cannot, at all, come home until march. I think that is something I can live with. But time will tell and so will his actions.

Orchid: The invitation is a good idea. You are correct to watch his actions before making your decision. Be prepared NOT to have him do it all in your favor. He could even be complacent.

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I have to play my cards out very delicately with this and entice him to want to come home and want to make this work. I do not, and I repeat do not, and will not, argue the whole time he is here.

Orchid: Not delicately but smart. Don't say you will NOT argue with him. You have no idea what a WS will do to MAKE you argue with him. Instead it w/b better to be prepared for an agrument and practice how you will act and react. Learning reverse babble is helpful.

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I will ask certain questions about what happened and then go from there. But I have promised myself that I will not get angry and yell at him or make demands. That will only drive him away. I am going to make our home safe, fun, upbeat, alive, warm and cozy, and just do my thing. If he wants to join me in my daily activities, then great. If not, then thats ok.

Orchid: You can ask the question but WS' learn to be slick with their responses. Often the WS baffle the BS and leave the BS feeling a bit stupid. So practice what you will ask, bounce it off a few who know how to deal with a WS (your MC, your support group who have been through it, this board, etc.).

Don't keep your expectations too high. Aim in a reasonable zone.

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I know, in the end, that I am going to be ok. And if he decides that he does not want to come home in march, then I know that at the end of the day I will be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I did everything humanly possible tomake my marriage work. It will be his loss, and another man's gain. I love my H very much and I am still very much in love w/ him but it doesnt mean that I cannot love someone else and be very happy with a man who is willing to commit forever to me.

Orchid: Good attitude. A WS is a loser. When he figures it out is the mystery. You love your H and you should. It is the WS you shouldn't love.

Quote
I have emailed my H a few times trying to get some sort of idea of what he is wanting to do but he is in the thick of that war over there, he has had to put it on the "back burner" b/c of everything that he is having to deal with. Dead bodies, coworkers getting shot in the head, drugs/alchohol abuse in his clinic, docs stabbing people in the back, babysitting contract employees who are trying to "work the system" etc etc. And I can respect that.

Orchid: While he may be in the 'thick of things' it has been noted that the WS will use anything as an excuse to avoid commiting to anything with a BS. Don't allow his excuses t/b your reasons.

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I feel like we should not make any major decisions about our marriage until we are face to face. I will know if this encounter went any further than a few kisses just by looking at him.

Orchid: Of course not. A WS should NOT be making ANY major decisions. Make sure you identify you will be making a decision with before you make any decision.

Have you identified your personal boundaries?


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He cannot lie to me w/o me knowing it. I have known him for too long.

Orchid: Maybe you can with your H but what do you really know about the WS? Very different critter there.

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So I guess I am stuck in the "holding pattern" until Dec. 11th. Any other suggestions on what I should do when he comes home? You guys have been so great and I really appreciate ya'll keeping up w/ me and responding. You are wonderful!!!

Orchid: You don't have to be 'stuck' you c/b prepared instead.

JMHO,
L.

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Orchid: Of course not. A WS should NOT be making ANY major decisions. Make sure you identify you will be making a decision with before you make any decision.

Have you identified your personal boundaries?

hey..I am not sure what you mean by this? And as far as boundaries...can you elaborate a little on this for me?
Thanks


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He did say, in our last session, that when my H comes home to offer him an "invitation" to make this marriage work.


I LIKE THIS!!!


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Yea I think so too..I am getting very nervous about him coming home b/c I know there could be 20 different scenarios that could happen. I just hope I am prepared enough to be able to deal with all of them. I just hope he realizes the importance of him being home in March and the fact that we need to be together in order for this to work. Worst case scenario, he wants out, loves this other girl, and thats it...do I still implement Plan A eventhough he is going to be going back in 12 days or do I just cut my losses and move on? Help Mimi!!!!


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Implement Plan A. Start calming down. It is very likely that he won't realize the importance of being together. He might say he wants out. He might think he loves someone else.

But you are here, and want to save your marriage. Here is the lighthouse post -

~BE THE LIGHTHOUSE~


Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...

yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..
you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...

you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...

but you know that...
so they can't hurt you right now...
they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....

set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....

without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...

you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...

seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...

no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...

and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...

and eventually they will see that you are the only one...

who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...

be the lighthouse....

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The key for me, Love was to take the focus off of my WH and to learn to focus on myself...what I wanted..what I believed in..regardless of what he SAID or did.

You say that you want to work on your marriage..then..continue to share this with him and to display your love and care for him..THAT IS PLAN A...

For you, of course, this will specifically include giving YOUR OPINION that in order for your marriage to be SAVED that he needs to come HOME to live with you in March. He may not agree but, most importantly, you would have maintained your own beliefs and demonstrated your love for him while he was here.

Then, you can feel good within yourself that you have done your part..the best that YOU can possibly do in working on your marriage...


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Believer, I like that..about being the lighthouse...Mimi, you are right...my therapists said that I need to learn to tell him my wants and my needs...I didn't realize I had such a problem with all of that until all this happened. Man, you learn a lot about yourself when this kinda crap happens. Also, he did not think it was a good idea to get a keylogger installed so when my H comes home I can see if he is stil keeping in touch w/ her via email or im. He said that if I really want to start over, trusting is going to be very important (which I agree) but right now, I don't trust my H and I am not sure what I wanna do. What do you guys think? I want to do what I can to protect myself just in case the worst case scenario plays out. But I just don't know....


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Hey Mimi and Believer...help..I just got an email from my H...here it is....

"are you going to be at work..i thought you were going to be on a trip? Im not going to be there that long....i want to talk but i m not sure im going to be staying at the house... i know you say its safe..but....anyway..well talk more about it later."

What does that say to you guys? That sounds like he has already made a decision that he does not want to work this out....this is what I wrote back to him....

"No I won't be at work...still not sure about the trip yet...Are you not going to stay here? Where would you stay? In hotel? Where would you stay until the 23rd? Dont you think we need some time together to see if this is even something that can be worked out? I am not sure it is but don't you think we owe it to ourselves to try that?"

I don't know what to think,guys,about this...but it does not sound very good....


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this was his response to my email back to him...

i wanted to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving. I told you we were going to talk what else can i say? Im not sure how long im going to stay in Asheville, but us talking will be a priority and the first thing i do. Im heading to go get my thanksgiving supper and then to bed..We've been short staffed for the past week so we've been working 15-16 hour days. im heading to sleep...I promise we will talk..


hhhhmmmmm....


God Bless A "If God brings you to it, He will get you through it."
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