She can't get any further away NOW. As you can see, appeasement will get you nowhere fast. But at least with you in the house, you have a better chance of bringing her back. She kicked you out so she could have her affair, moving back interferes with that. Everything she is saying to you is CLASSIC fogtalk of a WW who is in an addictive affair. She is saying nothing we don't hear on this forum every day.

I doubt she will stay out of the house if she leaves at all. That is most likely a threat to keep you out so she can carry on her affair in peace. If she has to carry on her affair from her mother's she will be very uncomfortable living with her mother. And you WANT her to be uncomfortable as possible becuase that will bring her back.

I am concerned now about you getting back into your house. What time are you going home? What are you going to do if she has locked you out?

Expect her to do and say ANYTHING to keep you out of hte house so you don't interfere with her affair. Don't fall for it! Go forward and interfere, interfere, interfere! The affair is the biggest threat to your marriage, not her anger!

I have an appt with another lawyer at 1. I should be home between 2 and 2:30.

I will find a way to get back in. I just hope she is still there and stands by her agreement to talk with full openeness and honesty, but I suspect the fogtalk will still be there.

I am still on here for about 15 more mins.

Oh, and thanks to all of you who have posted encouragements and tips here today. I really appreciate it.

If doing the right thing was easier, then everyone would do it. You are going to lose a ton of money in a divorce, so why isn't the stuff we are suggesting worth the investment. Don't let your WW take the kids. Here is the perfect answer to a self-entitled WW: "NO." Let your employer know your situation. Get a lawyer that will vigorously defend your interests. Get a PI to uncover the truth of the affair. Your MIL is typical, but hopefully if you are good friends with the BIL, he will be an ally. My SIL was my biggest ally. I talk with her nearly every day, and my WW avoided her sister. She got NO SUPPORT WHATSOEVER. She went on to tell her that I was too good for WW, and that if she didn't want me, every woman in her office including SIL would scoop me up. SIL called WW stupid.

If you can't get inside, call a locksmith. It is your house afterall. I'm sure your address is on your driver's licence. Have him change the lock or get you another key.

Anything you do or say that directly confronts the affair addiction will be met with hostility.

What to do?

Tonight, assuming you get in, be still and listen. Just cause YOU won't talk divorce or separation doesn't mean you can't let her ramble on and on about it. Just listen and meet her need for communication without her even knowing it. I doubt she's going to give you much truth but she MAY if she thinks it will further or benefit her addiction. You could say "If I just knew the truth", let her infer that you are saying "If I knew, I could let you go". She'll also maybe believe telling the truth with be a good way to manipulate you back out of the house. Allow her to infer that. Use her wayward desires against her to get what you want. ONLY after that do you really speak and say "NO". If you are too strong up front, she'll just fight you tooth and nail.

Be still...charge neutral. You have no idea what tomorrow holds, but today, you are going to be the best individual, husband and father possible. Carry on each conversation calmly as if it may be your last with her and you want to remember it forever. You will make it.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. W makes soem great points!!

As you bolster your position behind the scenes, you carry on yourself as the loving husband and father in front of her. You stay even keeled. Dont be sucked into arguments. Turn her foggy statements around, by asking questions.

Example...

WW: "I dont love you anymore. Cant you get that thru your thick head?"

You: "I hear that you feel like you dont love me anymore. I am sorry to hear that."

WW: "It isnt going to change. We should do this whole thing amicably."

You: "I understand that you believe things cannot change, right?"

WW: "Yes. I wish you would just leave."

You: "I understand that you thing that me leaving is for the best, correct?"

WW: "Yes. Why cant you jsut leave?"

You: "Honey. I am as committed to this marriage and to you and the kids as I was when we first married. I understand your feelings. I do hear you."

And on and on.

Do you see how you defuse the situation? You never get sucked into the discussion abotu divorce, separation, etc. You continually turn her statements back on her.

But you also stand firm on your stance of the marriage, the adultery, the recovery.

OK, here is the update:

Talked to another lawyer, again said nothing could be done to prevent her from taking the kids. Crap!!

Went home, no one was there. Wife already took the kids to her mom's. I called her and we talked a awhile, she agreed to meet me for dinner to talk more. Denied any PA going on, but admitted EA is there. She will not come back home if I am home. She says right now she will be happer divorced from me than married to me.

I can't stand being away from my kids and any possibilities of seeing my wife and working things out. She is still not willing to engage in working on our marriage and I can only hope that time (1 year in SC) works in my favor now. I am just not willing to engage in a nasty and expensive legal battle, I want to have control in negotiating this LSA together. I will find an apt. or something and she will come back home now. My taker has been running wild these last few weeks, I have to lock it up from here on out. All I have done is push her away and I cannot force my wife to do anything she does not want to do. If she says she is done, then all I can do is try to improve myself and see if she will eventually change her mind. And you know what, internally I feel at peace with this.

I did get her to agree to return the cell phone and write a NC letter to OM and I need to figure out how to enforce that. The next step is the laptop - still a sticking point.

Maybe at some point I can get her to talk to Steve Harley as a way to help me like someone mentioned in another thread.

I am not giving up, I am just stepping back to let God do some work in this. Right now I don't know what else to do except try to meet her ENs. Maybe you all will see it as giving up, I don't know. I am just mentally and physically exhausted from all this. I need to recharge. I want to live my life for my wife like Mortarman's thread on Huband's roles.

Tomorrow is another day, let's see what God has in store for us.

Of course she'll admit to the EA because that explains the exhorbinant phone calls and emails but she's counting on you not being able to prove a PA because THAT would be adultery in your state. She thinks that no one will EVER be able to prove the PA. You don't need to SEE them to prove it...just getting a hold of some suggestive emails or other documentation, then demonstrating alone time.

DON'T MOVE OUT. You are NOT driving her away by staying. I know it seems counterintuitive to make her mad and uncomfortable but appeasement will get you no where. If she wants to leave she can. You CAN get your kids at some point as YOU have just as much right to them as her. You will be in a much better position if you STAY in the family home. In fact, you should also stay in your marital bed. She will be mad, but your marriage can survive her anger...IT CAN NOT SURVIVE HER CONTINUED AFFAIR.

Also, with you out, what does she care about sending a NC letter and returning the cell phone. She can just call him on the home phone from now on...or better yet, just have him over for a "visit". Maybe he can even borrow some of the clothes of yours you've left behind. I know that's a bit mean...but you've got to get some balls and fight for your marriage, your family and yourself with a bit more zeal. You can't make this easy for her.

HOPE will not save your marriage. A solid PLAN like MB MAY. Either way, YOU will make it and you will have a notion that YOU did everything you possibly could to save your marriage.

Stop letting her manipulate you. Stay calm, stay put and fight. If SHE moves out...so be it, at least it makes HER uncomfortable and not YOU. When you get to see the kids it will be in YOUR HOME. When you fight for custody...you will be in a position of strength, not some crappy apartment without bedrooms for the kids and perhaps outside the kids school district.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I forget...is your wife a SAHM (Stay at home mother)...if you get HER to move out, she's likely to go out and get a job to help pay her expenses...all the better for YOUR custody petition.

p.p.s. - NEVER indicate you are getting advice her at MB....this is YOUR sanctuary. You may think you can teach her and fix this overnight...YOU CAN'T...this process takes time and you need unfettered access to this website. Don't tell her about it.

p.p.p.s. - Get a PI or do some serious snooping. Your Wayward Wife WILL NOT tell you the truth about her affair. I know it's really hard to not trust this person you've loved for so long...but you can't. She's not your wife right now...she's a corrupted adulterer alien right now. Trust NOTHING she says and only 50% of what you see her doing. It's all addiction behavior. She'll only be nice to you IF you enable her addiction. Expect it.

SCbetrayed, do you want to save your marriage or not? You are going to have to BUCK UP if you want to make it here. You are not going to save your marriage from an affair if you run crying at the first warning shot. She is huffing and puffing only to intimidate you from interfering with her affair. That is all this is, a ruse, a ploy. She is hoping to bully you out of the house so she can come back home and continue her affair. That is all this is. But the worst thing you can do is RUN.

If you stay there, she will see her little ploy did not work and will soon come home. She has no intention of forfeiting her home by living with her mother. That would be extremely uncomfortable. She wants to be home and will come home regardless.

Even if she did try to keep your kids from you, all you have to do is file a seperation agreement and you will have visitation. She can't keep your kids from you.

If you want to save your marriage, you must stand your ground. It would be a dreadful mistake to crumble like this and allow her to manipulate you. Stay home and I strongly suspect she will soon be back home.

You have very little chance of working this out or seeing your family if you don't live there. And in many states moving out is viewed as ABANDONMENT. And hopefully your clothes fit the OM, because I promise you, he WILL be in your house soon enough!

You are going to have to MAN UP, SC. You can't flee at the first sign of a little smoke and mirrors or you will never make it. Appeasing someone who is ****** bent on destroying your marriage will get you nothing, much less your marriage. STAY HOME!!

She can't prevent you from taking the kids either. If she doesn't come back by next weekend, pay her a visit and take the kids back.


Of course she doesn't admit the PA, she knows you don't have proof. She is manipulating you to get you to move back out. She doesn't want to live with her mom. Here is an idea - CUT HER OFF FINANCIALLY! She'll have no choice but to come home. DO NOT MOVE OUT!


Don't let her win. Think of it like this. Your wife that you love and the mother of your children is addicted to drugs. She doesn't want to give them up, but it is ruining you and your children's lives. You can't make her give them up, right? You have a responsibility to try and get your wife help for the sake of your family, and that includes putting yourself through ****** for a while. You can't get her off drugs by leaving her alone and hoping she stops. STAND UP AND DO WHAT IT RIGHT!


This is a start, but you need to be around to enforce this. Also, drop the laptop for now, and confiscate it when she is asleep or gone from the house.


This is important as well. You should probably talk to Steve Harley to reinforce you are doing the right thing and come up with a more specific plan.


We never said this was going to be easy. If doing the right thing were easy everyone would do it. You might need to get some IC and ADs to help get you through this. Talk to family and friends to help recharge your batteries. You are in for the fight of your life. It always gets harder before it gets easier, but you are on the right path. Don't cower in fear at your wife's anger. You will never break her affair by leaving her alone. You need to confront it head on. As for leaving it in God's hands, He directed you here, just like He did all of us. God gave me the strength to save my marriage, and I pledged to God that I would help others in my same situation. Think about this, if God didn't want you to stay at home and fight for your marriage, then why would several complete strangers come to your aid and be there for you at your darkest hour? I don't even know you, and will never meet you, but I am trying to help you save your marriage. Can't you see what God is telling you to do? He'll give you the strength to get through this, just like He gave all of us. You are just going to have to trust Him.

Quote: "She can take the kids blah blah blah she's there mother blah blah blah..." Well he** so can you. You are there father. She has no more rights to those children (probably less in her current state of mind) than you do. Don't forget this!!!

Listen to the wonderful advice given you and you will be fine. Stay calm and collected. Be the stable parent.

Why do you think she agreed to go out to dinner w/ you?

She was hoping to convince you that what you are doing is hopeless.

She was hoping to convince you to give up the house to her.

She played you, my friend.

Now that she got what she wanted do you think she'll agree to more dinners w/ you?

Get back in that house!

Only THIS time don't tell her you're going to do it before you do it!

You have EVERYTHING to gain by doing so, and NOTHING to loose.

~ Marsh

SC<

These folks are correct! Your first mission in all of this is to protect your interests and those of the children, while at the same time making things extremely uncomfortable for your wife in affair-land.

You talked about negotiating a LSA. You think that will help. No it wont!! It will help you get divorced! She wants you to help her, help her get what she wants.

If you want to save your marriage and your kids' family, you had best get out of the business of helping your wife in this. Sure, it is hard...but it will be much harder on her than you, if you follow the plans here.

Your wife is running from God. You are trying to obey Him. Guess who is going to have a harder time of it? Of course, your wife! But if you dont listen, if you dont "be the man," if you dont do everything possible to protect your family, then you also will not be obeying God.

You are in charge of your family. God will hold you responsible of what that family does and does not do...including your wife. You must do everything possible to make sure yoru wife gets back to her knees. You must also do whatever it takes to make sure that those kids are not in an environment of rebellion to God. That you NEVER, EVER condone, enable or normalize the rebellious life your wife is trying to head into. It should always be wrong in your kids' eyes. It should always be sin!

You cant physically stop your wife. But there are many things you CAN do to lead her back. And we can help you with that!

But you can take charge of those children and protect them. I knwo the attorneys said that she has every right to take them. Of course, she is their Mom. But you have every right to have them in your home, in the family home.

Look, SC law is very similar to Virginia's laws. You and I live in great states for combatting adultery and the like. And one of the first things to understand is that if this goes to court, the judge is going to look out for the "best interests of the children." And he has a list of what he is looking at. One of those things is "where do they live now?" Where have they been living? Who has been providiing for their care? Where is their schools? Where is their stuff?

If your wife gets the house, and you move out, then she has the advantage. A judge WILL NOT remove children from their current home unless there are safety issues!! He will jsut not upset the status quo!

So, when my wife wanted me to sign a LSA and me to move out, I had the good people here to stop me. So, my wife moved out into a one bedroom apartment, saw the kids maybe every ten days for an overnighter...and I got custody of the kids in the end!!

Whether or not the marriage makes it is a separate issue to the one confronting you as the father of those kids. God holds YOU responsible for their upbringing, not your wife. And you cannot take charge of and influence that which is not in your presence.

If your wife was a cocaine addict, would you let her take control of the house and the kids?? Of course not!!! Well, she is an addict, but she is addicted to a person right now. She is sinning...rebelling against God. do not leave your kids in that environment!!

As I said, I know she has rights to them. But so do you!! So, you stay in the house, you tell her that you expect equal time with the kids right now. And not one minute less than equal!! They way I did it, until we went to court, was mandate 4 day rotations. I ended up with more, since she worked. But I would never settle for less!!

For the court, this is key. As I said, they will not remove the kids from their home and from the person providing most of the care. Also, as Mr. W will tell you...for tax purposes, you want the kids with you most of the time, otherwise yoru wife gets the write-off.

On the marriage front, you need to get the good on her. In order to help expose. But also to get you ready for possible court fight. As in Virginia, you have the ability to not have to pay alimony because of adultery. By her leaving the house, you also have the ability to charge her with abandonment. I am not sure what it is in SC, but in Virginia, adultery is a misdemeanor.

You also shut down ALL money to her. All access to credit cards, bank accounts, etc. Open noew accounts and mvoe ALL assets to those accounts. She WILL try to take them, as my wife did!!

Go get your kids. Tell your wife that you are not doing divorce, that you will do everything you can to save your family. And that you expect while she works this out, that the kids will be with you, in the family home, most of the time (or at least half).

You are in a position of strength here, SC. You have God on your side (she doesnt). You have a plan (as outlined here), and she doesnt. She is fighting the odds (over 95% of all affair relationships end!!). You are in the house, and she isnt.

So, shore up your position. Get help from Steve and us. Tell your attorney what you expect!! Pray constantly.

Be the man.

P.S. - DON'T TELL/FOREWARN HER YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND AGAIN AND ARE MOVING BACK IN....JUST SHOW UP WITH SOME OR ALL OF YOUR THINGS IN HAND AND ENTER YOUR HOUSE. If she leaves, she leaves.

I talked to Steve H this morning. We have a plan that I can fight for my marriage even in separation.
I am looking into a PI for further investigation of a PA so I can have solid proof. Without that it's all speculation. Yes, in SC adultrey=no alimony.

I am tired of waffling back and forth, saying I am leaving, then staying, then leaving, then staying. I am a freaking wreck right now. As far as custody, I have to work and my kids would be in school/day care if I have them. Yes she may be using all this against me.

I have IC this afternoon as well and will discuss it further then.

So are you staying or leaving?

YOU NEED TO STAY, END OF STORY. NO MORE WAFFLING!

P.S. If you stay and cut her off financially, it is a 99% certainty that she will be back with the kids in your home with you. Isn't that what you want? She has manipulated you enough, it is time to fight fire with fire.

Have you read the Spying 101 thread???

If not, go to Just Found Out board and click on the top thread "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" by Longhorn. In Longhorn's signature line is a link. You can save a lot of money on PI's by getting the information yourself. You still have access to YOUR home...you may enter it at any time. Even if you separate...you can go in when she's not there and snoop. When you finish the Spying 101 thread you should also read through the entire "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" thread.

Mr. W

p.s. - One last flip-flop...move home....if you are going to separate and move out at the very very least, use your waywards compulsion to get you out to arrange a favorable LSA/custody arrangement. She'll likely agree to much more to get you out the door than otherwise. Go for a 4 day/4 day schedule which automatically rotates weekends OR go for every other Friday night, Saturday 11am through Sunday until 3 pm, and Wednesday evenings (I suggest this with the understanding you work full time). Try to maximize and NEVER accept the every other weekend and one night per week crap. You no longer HAVE to accept that. It will likely only happen IF you accept it. Whatever you negotiate will likely end up being the temporary custody order and then the final custody order. Don't give in and don't move out without a firm agreement NEGOTIATED by your attorney's and NOT YOU.

p.p.s. - Adultery only gets you out of alimony...not child support. The more custody you get the less you pay, the less you pay the more likely WW gets a job to make ends meet, then when she gets a job the income she makes is then factored into the child support and you end up paying even less. The decisions YOU make right now will effect YOU and the kids financially for YEARS.

It's good you got in with Steve. And I have no doubt he has you set up on a great plan, no matter whether your wife stays or goes!!!

Now, the main issues are getting the goods on the affair and protecting the kids. If you need help in findign ways to get the info you need to prove adultery, please ask!!

On the kids...you said that when you worked, the kdis would have to be in school/day care? Is this a problem?? I did it (and still do). And I am able to be with them more than my wife. I am able to keep them in a proper environment for most of their time.

Because I did all of this, when we went to court, I received most of the time with the kids. I have them from Thursday afternoon to Monday afternoon. I have all weekends (unless there is a 5th weekend in the month). We split Christmas and Thanksgivings. She gets one week in the Summer...so do I. Plus, I get all of their Spring Breaks.

I did an analysis on this the other day. Sure, for the most part...I have them 4 days a week, and she has them three. But with the added days (like Spring Break) as well as me havign them on 99% of the weekends, my wife only spends time with them on Mon-Tues-Wed nites, as they are in school and her at work.

So, I broke down the number of waking hours she could actually spend in their presence the next two years. And the numbers are staggering!! My wife, over the next two years, will spend no more than 5000 hours with our kids. I will spend over 15,000 waking hours with them (not in school, work, etc).

Now, let me ask yo ua question...who will have more influence over their upbringing and their lives? "Mrs. 5000 hours" or "Mr. 15,000 hours"?

SC, it is that simple. It is NOT easy! The best hope is that your wife removes her outer brain casing from her waste disposal unit and recommits to the family and the marriage. But short of that...it is YOU that will have to pick up the slack and protect this family from her!!

Do you want her to have the 15,000 plus hours with the kids...with the OM??? You want this loser OM to have more influence over yoru kids than you? You want your kids raised in an environment that promotes adultery, promotes destroying families? That is what she is building (or wants to build).

SC, this is about the kids right now. You are the ONLY sane parent they have. You must remain so. Do not back down, do not let up. Look at those kids everyday and swear that you will protect them and their family. That you will lead them.

God expects you to lead. Only you can!! You are now about to learn the difference between simple and easy. This whole process is incredibly simple. It is NOT easy!!

But that is why we are men! We were made to "die" for our wives and for our families. You need to sacrifice your wants, your needs, your desires...for the sake of yoru family and your kids. And yes, SC...even for your WW!!! God demands this!

We can help you. Steve will help you. But you will have to reach down and grab a pair and decide that this alien masquerading as yoru wife will not be allowed to destroy your family.

It's your call. Your kids are depending on you. Even your wife is depending on you (note: I didnt say WW!!!).

Are you up to the mission?