Wow, there is some GREAT advice here and a lot of support on this board. Thank God!!

SC, I am not qualified to add any advice or pointers to your thread, but I've been following it...and I've just noticed something: the title of your thread: "How to rebirth my marriage"

You started this thread looking for help in SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE. This board and your thread is FULL of people HELPING YOU SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE! Many have saved or are saving their own! Now GO OUT AND DO IT!!!

OK, PI is hired. As far as spying, I did read the thread on Spying 101 and I used the keylogger to get some info before she switched to the laptop, used phone lookups to get the cell phone numbers and such.

Thanks everyone for the "Man up, get your butt in gear, Just Do It" talk. My only worries are continuing to show weakness by not sticking to a decision. I feel like I am using the kids as pawns. Why can't this be saved even in separation?

I am starting to doubt if this can even be saved now and if I want to go through this. I am starting to feel like it is all slipping away.

1. You only show weakness when you give into your WW. If you flip-flop against your wife's wishes, that is not weakness.

2. Your WW is the one using your children as pawns to enable her affair, not you. You are trying to protect them.

3. Wondering whether or not you want to do this is perfectly natural. Doing the right thing isn't always easy (it rarely is). On the contrary, it was slipping away BEFORE you moved back in, now you are taking positive steps to get the marriage back.

But at what point do you just look at the situation ans say - She does not want anything to do with marriage any longer? Why fight it any longer? Yes I want to save this, but if she does not everything will be taken as me trying to control her.

SC,

You will know!! Trust me. The Lord will let you know. But until you go thru Plan A, and Plan B...you will not be prepared for Plan D (Divorce). You just wont.

You are too soon into this to know anything. That is why you must have a plan (Steve is helping you with that) and you must stick to it. It is the plan that will keep you moving in the right direction, no matter what your WW does.

Look, anything you do that is contrary to her desires right now will be perceived as trying to control her. Forget about it!!! She is in the fog. She hasnt a clue what she wants, or what she is talking about!! So, stop listening to an addict! As others have said...her anger is NOT the enemy of your marriage...the affair is!! Fight the affair!

She will not want to have anything to do with you as long as she is in the affair. Kill the affair and after a month of NC and withdrawal, you WILL notice positive changes in your WW. If she knew she wanted to divorce you, she would have already done it. She is addicted to her affair now, and can't find a way out. You must show her that way, no matter how much she goes kicking and screaming.

I think the obvious answer to this is: NOT when she's involved in an affair! And CERTAINLY not when you are HELPING her continue her affair.

You said it again: you want to save this. All the steps are here to do so.

You're not controlling her at all - you're not keeping HER in the house, you're keeping YOU & THE KIDS in the house. SOMEBODY'S got to look out for them!!

It's YOUR choice when you want to give up on your marriage.

You aren't responsible for how she takes anything you say or do. Being a fogged out WW there really isn't anything you can do that will please her right now.

But, there are things you can do that will cause her to RESPECT you.

Manning up will get you respect.

When a woman respects a man, she will find him sexy.

Sexy is good, no?

People have saved their marriages under worse circumstances than yours.

Chin up.

Acting strong will make you feel strong.

Feeling strong will chase your fears away.

~ Marsh

As I have heard many times on here...

What would you do if you werent afraid??

Going home again and saying "I changed my mind again I am staying home" will get the response "Make up your f'ing mind. You can't make a decision and stick to it. Me and the kids are outta here again and don't try to get me to come back again because I can't believe a word you say. I don't love you and never will. I already told you I am not sleeping with anyone, and no you cannot look at my laptop. See you in court." She will still seek separation and divorce like she is now, expcet in the meantime I won't be able to see her or the kids. More $$$ to lawyers.

Then she leaves and the PI I just hired cannot do anything. $$$ down the drain.

Right now I am in the pit of despair, if you cannot tell already.

Somebody send me a PM with a phone number and I will talk to anyone right now.

I'll be honest, I am afraid of a lot right now. Afraid she will not love me, afraid I will lose her, afraid no one else will love me.

Yup.

You're probably exactly right.

She will say all of that and probably a bunch more.

So what???

She's the one that upset the apple wagon. If you stumble a bit while you're trying to pick the apples back up, so what???

Shame on her, for what she's doing.

Not on you.



She will not be able to keep the kids from you forever. You will go to court and be sure she does not do this.

You will be in a better position inside the family home than you will outside of it.



She's gonna have to worry about $$$ too, once you cut her off.



Why can't he still do his work w/ her living in another place?



We know.

Having a plan will help you escape from that pit.

~ Marsh

Dont SAY anything...just do it!


Blah, blah, blah. They all SAY THAT. Means nothing!


Which means...she is sleeping with someone!


Why cant you see the kids??? What makes her able to keep them from you? If she can keep them from you, why cant you keep them from her? I am being sarcastic, SC. But what I am saying is she has NO right to keep the kids from you. And if you are out of the house, you wont see her either.


PI can follow her anywhere. Doesnt matter where she is at.


We know!! Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It is why we are here for you!


SC, email me your phone number and I will call you when I get out of work. My email is [email]Mortar29@yahoo.com.[/email] I get off in three hours, if you can hang that long!

But in the short term, what you have been doing is arguing for your limitations. Stop that! God plus you is a majority!! You are getting yourself all wrapped up in "what ifs" and defeatism!

You have a plan. You have one of the best marriage counselors in the world (the Harleys) behind you. You are obeying God. You have South Carolina law behind you. You have those that have been thru this behind you. You have all of the statistics that say that her affair will end...and that your marriage isnt necessarily over.

As Steve Harley told me once, though...is that you cant shorten this journey, but you sure as heck can make it longer!

Your wife was right about one thing! You have to do the right thing, and stick to it. Leaving YOUR home is NOT the right thing. You are still a married man. You are still a father. it is your house and your kids' house. If she doesnt want to be a part of the family, then she can leave.

You talk about your wife as if she has some special right to keep the kids, that you dont have. Not so! You have as much right to those kids as her. So, bring them home. At the very least, tell her until things get worked out, that you expect a 4 day rotation schedule for the kids. Four for her, then four for you. It will keep one from getting the majority of the time AND it will allow you to show the judge that you can handle being Daddy by yourself.

I told you, my man...it aint easy!! But you are the man in this family. No one...not your wife, not Steve Harley, not us...can take your place. Only YOU can fulfill your responsibilities. Only YOU can save your family.

Do you have a choice? If your wife and kids were in a burnign building, would you go after them? Of course you would.

Well, SC...the house is on fire! You gonna run away...or run inside?!?!

We know, SC! We know! Lean on Jesus. He is in control!

All of this will pass.

You know, in the Army...heros werent guys that had no fear. heros were guys that got up out of the foxhole when they were scared to death, and did their duty anyway.

This sucks! I know it! But you have your mission.

Right now you have lost her.

Right now she doesn't love you.

Doesn't mean you can't win her back.

Doesn't mean she won't love you again.

I thought I'd never love my BH again, but guess what?

I was wrong.

I love him LOTS and LOTS now.



Just b/c your WW has chosen to have an A, doesn't mean that you are unlovable.

The A is about HER not you.

Please know this.

My A had nothing to do w/ my DH.

It was all about ME.

~ Marsh

She's in an affair....even though she calls it an EA, it IS an affair. I'm betting it's a PA too. Making this assumption, she's addicted. She could move to New Zealand and still need her fix of OM. Waywards act crazy and the PI will still be able to get intelligance on her eventually. Even if she leaves, you'll discover in communications about the kids that she's going out "with the girls" some night...PI then is put to work.

Do you know who OM is?

Is he married? Have you told his wife or significant other?

You may want to get a bit more intelligence prior to exposing. Did you try the voice recorder??? Actually, don't tell me here...maintain your deniability...just do it. Hide one in her car and/or in your home (see the attic idea I posted on the Spying 101 thread so you can plug it in and not rely on batteries).


YOU WILL MAKE IT.

Mr. Wondering

SC, you have no choice - you HAVE to participate in this.

A year from now, you HAVE to look back at the role you had in this.

Will she be at your side or will she be gone? We don't know.

Will you be proud of your actions, your role in this...or will you be kicking yourself, posting here to others saying "please don't do what I did..." THAT part you have COMPLETE CONTROL over.

I don't want to yell at you. I want to celebrate with you. Let's get there!!

SC, email me your phone number, and I'll give you a call. I can't get private messages to enable. My email is [email]jmwc95@yahoo.com.[/email]

The PMs don't work here.

~ Marsh

SC,

Do you hear Marsh??? She was where your wife is now. She KNOWS!! She has been in the middle of the fog.

Wanna know something, SC?? I bet Marsh will say I am dead on with this next statement...when she was in the fog, it was one of the loneliest places she has ever been. Even with an OM!!

SC, you feel alone, unlovable. It is now, that you turn to God. I am assuming you are a Christian (if not, please let me know!!!). If so, then I will post again with where yoru strength really lies.

But you must understand that deep down, your WW does nto feel good about herself. Right now, she projects that on you. You are the cause, you are the reason.

But if you follow the plans here, she will eventually realize it had nothing to do with SC...and everything to do with the selfishness of Mrs. SC.

Isnt that right, Marsh?