Well, for whatever reason, this definitely has OM's fingerprints all over it. I don't care why he did it, as the mind of an OM is sick and twisted by nature. Regardless of the reasons, WW will probably be pissed that OM called the cops (it makes her look bad), and it makes him look the same (controlling) as what she makes Eph out to be. Maybe she will start seeing OM as the controlling one. I'm still surprised that she hasn't thrown a fit about Eph contacting OM's parents. Maybe OM is hiding it from her for some reason (like she would never be welcome in his family or he has been "stalking" her this whole time and he doesn't want her to see the "true" him). I don't know why, but it just seems fishy. Most WW's call you up the day that you expose to OM's family and tell you what a horrible and controlling person you are for doing so. Something just isn't right.

Nah, my guess is she'll continue to play her game w/OM. She'll probably thank him for calling the police b/c things WERE getting hairy for her. She'll tell him that it helped calm Eph down very much so they could continue talking calmly about the kid's best interest...

OM will feel like the knight and WW can continue manipulating him w/ her lies.



It's possible his parents didn't even call him.

Maybe they have long ago given up trying to give their opinions about his choices. Maybe they think his choices are ok. Who knows?

~ Marsh

Hey, Eph,

How soon after the police officer left, did your WW leave?

~ Marsh

Today has been been busy - kids and I are heading out to my SS class party, but I wanted to provide some info.

The general timeline/discussions went like this:

She got here about 9pm. We ate dinner at the table and made small talk. We talked about the deal at Va Tech this week.

About 9:30 we moved into the living room and talked. The discussion points were:
-School next year for kids
-Her working
-Schedules for summer
-Surgery for DS6
-Both of our feelings about what is going on. It was here I had a wide open door to ask her about talking to Steve Harley.
-This led to a discussion on custody
-some other idle chit chat

A this point it was about 11:30 and I had moved to sit next to hear to run her neck. This is when the cop showed up.

For the next hour I french braided her hair and rubbed her head and shoulders, always asking if she was uncomfortable - she never was.

She left at about 12:30 and then called me when she got home. We talked a few more minutes.

So there you go.

I give strong consideration to OM calling the police. WW told me that the only people who knew she was coming over were her mom, her brother, our neighbor, and DS6's teacher at school - of course she did not mention if OM knew or not.

OK, will be back later to provide more details.

Good u could get a laugh, after the nite you had.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Sounds overall the evening went wonderfully, pleasant and peacefully. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Denial---> self perservation ---> retaliation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Exposures are often frayed with----> emo repercussions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Part I liked the best, is bringing Dr. Harley into your marriage picture. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Develop it man, develop it, develop it, develop it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, well, well...sounds great! THe cops, how cool is that!

Good job, you keep up the great work...waiting to hear about visitation with whoever it was today?

Hope you have a good night!

Greetings from Atlanta.

I still owe some details from the discussion Friday night so I will try to post them tonight after I get back from dinner.

We'll be waiting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, so I was out late with friends getting moral support and laughing and having a good time.

I'll address the first two points of the discussion.

School for kids:
Told her that DS6 was thriving in school based on the info from his teacher. He is ready for first grade already and I thought public school was the best option. I also told her I had looked into getting him into the better schools when we move, and that I had looked into what the process was to get him in that school should we not be moved by the time school starts next year.
I then asked her to tell me the thoughts on homeschooling. She talked about why she did and did not want to do it Then I just asked if she thought it was reasonable for her to stay home and she just replied "Public school is fine." I said I am not trying to make a unilateral decision, we need to be on the same page and she said it's fine, but the tone implied it was not really fine and she maybe felt trapped into the decision.

I also asked if she had thought about school for DD3 next year. She said no, that since we did not start DS6 until he was 5 tha twe should do the same for DD3. I told her I would like to put her into school because I did not think it was reasonable for her to just stay at home. This led to....

WW working:
I asked if she was planning to work and that I was concerned about her taking care of the kids. She said that it was not my concern about whether she worked, to which I replied that it was because it impacts the care of the kids. She the said "Well the kids don't go hungry," to whoch I replied that was true but I did not see any evidence that their other needs, like clothing for example, were being met. It just sorta stopped right there.

Funny thing, though. On Saturday when I called her for the kids to say good night I got her voice mail. The message now says something like "You have reached Mrs. Eph with <some company name>. Your call is very important to me......" so apparently she suddenly maybe has some kind of job with sales somehow.

OK, more tomorrow, errr I mean later today - I am exhausted and a little tipsy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WOW!

Action packed stuff?

Wanted to comment here for your consideration.

As a prior home-schooling mom...

Home-schooling is a totally wonderful way to educate children!!! I would have homeschooled both my kids from day 1. No doubt about that!

I am big advocate, had my kids, in public, private, home-schooled one child for 2 yrs. So have done the gauntlet educational run, taylored to my kids unique needs. To the best of my abilities/circumstances.

As xh ran alot of disruptive interferences. Periods of times of times where he was normal.

Homeschooling, requires a high devotion, committment, dedicated, endeavor& sacrifices! Wonderful for children, rewarding, and so enriching!!!

Which should never be taken lightly....special cautions apply in an unstable marriage& family circumstances.

Because, in my situation of meeting my son's needs, my xh later on acted out even more during all his false recovery periods.

My daughter choose the public school across the street which was absolutely fabulous. She's the social butterfly. Strongly disliked christian private school. I volunteered a great deal at her public school, on the parent advisory council, etc.

Her public school delivered a much better education/more on the ball, than the Chrisitan school. Hands down.

Principal/staff, kids were my sanity team when my xh/I were going through our first legal seperation. Ex took full advantage of our kids educational special needs to further disrupt our lives, indulge himself further in his affair world.

Homeschooling world was going on fabulously, we had such fun!!!! However, when our worlds got shook by xh. The devastation on the kids really messed things up.

We lost some valuable blocks of time of our lesson planning.
Working on multi- dimensional creative project.

My daughter school principal embraced us under their wings!
The man with heart of gold! True educator& permitted me to fit my son's social needs/gifts into their school in cool ways!

Takes two parents solid whole-hearted committment. Little margin for martial/parental dysfunctions. Stability is so important!

We all bemoaned why did the xh ever come back!!!

One has to really enjoy education, teaching & learning....

The income loss is substantial, worth it, not worth it, if the other spouse is unwillingly, stressed out by it, causes additional strains....

Something to think about explore& think about!

Sky - great information, and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Just wanted to share this:

The last two Sunday's sermon has been on the prodigal son, and the Pastor said something that has echoed in my head.

So I sent WW this e-mail just now:

OK, the rest of the discussion points

Schedules for summer:
Asked if she had thought about or made any plans for the summer yet. She has thought about it but not made any definite plans. I told her to let me know what she wanted to do and I would make my plans around her and my works schedule (because we have so many projects going on right now). I did not bring up the option of the notebook, calendar thing yet but that will come.

Surgery for DS6:
We talked about when we want to do the kidney surgery thing for DS6. The plan is to do it soon after school is out (May 25) so that we get it out of the way for the rest of the summer. Full agreement there.

Feelings/Custody
Things get a little jumbled here. I stated over and over again that I was standing up for our family, that I did not believe I attacked her, that I am "present" in the situation and not sticking my head in the sand hoping it would just go away. Somehow the door opened up wide for me to ask her about speaking to Steve Harley about us getting on the same page. She then said that was a big favor and she wanted a big favor herself - she wants the kids to stay with her. Now I think that SH can work some magic here, but I just don't think that it should take me giving up the kids for her to talk to him.

She did mention that she had given thought to us being together again, but did not know how she could get over the things I have done to her, that she could make no promises. I said we have a lot to work through but that I was willing to do it, that she and I and the kids were worth it. I do not want promises, I want commitment and action in working towards recovery.

We talked about forgiveness, what it is, what it means. She asked me what I thought forgiveness was, and I mentioned that forgiveness is what God does for us - removing our sins as far as the east is from the west. However in my humanness, I am unable to forgive like that, that God did not make me that way. So I read to her my notes I wrote when we went through the forgiveness session in DivorceCare. Thinking back, she never told me her definition of forgiveness because this was when we were interrupted by the arrival of the cop.

After that, like I mentioned before, she let me play with her hair which I have not done since November at least, and she also let me massage her head, neck, and shoulders (i.e. inappropriate touching <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). She seemed so relaxed, like putty in my hands, like all the times before.....


So after all this I really have no idea what to expect Friday in the mediation session.

Bwhhaaaahhhaaahhaaa!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, Eph! I wasnt laughing at you. But this is funny because it is so typical. She is now at the negotiation phase of the WS handbook. She will give a little, talk to Steve one or two times...and get what she wants. Then, stop talking to Steve and continue on her merry way.

Dont believe this junk for a second! Just tell her (nicely) that you believe that Steve can help and that it would be in the best interests of her, the kids and you, if the two of you gave it a shot. Just drop her offer (of her getting the kids). No need to discuss it with her at all, as it isnt even a possibility! Sheessshh. Some WSs have some huge ones, dont they??


This is also the next step in their progression (they being WSs). Now, they are considering but cant move yet. This is GOOD! You are going to have to resist the urge to push her or coax her out of the fog. She is now considering it. Let her continue to stew for awhile and just keep doing what you have been doing (cause it has been working! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />). No pressure!


Just stick to your guns. No LBs but also no giving in on the basic boundaries (kids stay with their home, she is welcome to visit them, no funds to her from you outside of what the court may order, mandatory counseling with SH if she wants to move anything from this reality). The mediation session is likely to set things back slightly, as it is a adversarial situation. Just be quiet in there, let your attorney talk (let him be the "bad guy"). And once it is over, get away from her for the day to let things settle down afterwards (the biggest arguments usually happen right after things like this!!).

Steady as she goes. Your Plan A is working.

Agree with MM.

I also think the closeness and intimacy of the conversation and "touching" the other night, in itself, will be a catalyst for your next encounter and/or conversations being bad.

It's the rollercoaster effect.

She's having second thoughts.

Second thoughts run counter to her addiction.

Thus, anything contrary to her addiction, is resisted and counterbalanced.

She's likely to try to push you for some justifications and rationalizations over the coming days by being hateful, inciteful, manipulative, whatever...to get you to react.

Give her some space.

Avert yourself from anticipating or needing continual progress as until the affair is OVER there is no such thing as recovery....just degrees of affair interference with Plan A.

Expect some pull-back.

As far as the "favor" for talking to Steve Harley...just put it as a "favor" to the entire family (i.e. - it really is the best interest of the kids if you an I have some resolution and understanding on this matter). Use her willingness to fight the custody battle "for the best interests of the kids" to prompt her to feel she HAS to do it. Like she will be losing custody points on the scoreboard if she doesn't. You could even throw in that your attorney suggested that this was really important for the kids that the co-parents work out and resolve their issues.

Mr. Wondering

Couldnt agree more with Mr. W!!!

Eph,

Pleased u could benefit from our hs/ed experinces.

Prodigal msg. Eh... The Major Attachemnt Disorder, we all have!

Lots of good communication, cooperation flow happening!!!

Impressed with this statement! Give/Take... Good


Possible to attend a Harley Seminar together? Can you swing it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sky - I have given thought to the Marriage Builders Weekend, and I would do it in a heartbeat, but as much as I would like to I ain't trading the kids for it. We have to go by our own choice, not by manipulation.

Just remember something else from last Friday - she let slip a comment about both of our lawyers saying that I was attacking her. When I pressed her, she backed up on it. There is no way my lawyer thinks this as we have discussed this in great detail, but I will ask him about it when I meet with him tomorrow.

Oh, and the visit by the GAL went good on Saturday. No real sure what she was looking for, she observed us playing while we were outside, and she wanted to see their rooms. She will be at the mediation session Friday but I do not know whether she will make any recommendations there. I told her I did want to talk with her prior to Friday so I will hopefully do that tomorrow.

Well it's good to be home, but it's back to reality. I think this trip happening right after the Friday conversations worked out great - we had limited contact, just some chatting on the phone when I would call to tell the kids goodnight.

I really do not know what to expect on Friday, hopefully I can get some perspective after talking with my lawyer tomorrow.

Ack!! Just remember this also:

After I dropped of the kids Sunday to go to ATL, WW calls and asks if I had packed something for DS6. I told her it was in the suitcase and she said she did not look yet she just called to see. That led to about 15 more mins of idle chit chat and saying "Well I'll let you go...." 5 times.

And just like old times, I brought her back a few little knick-knacks I picked up at the conference from the various vendors.

Just really feeling blah today - not looking forward to tomorrow.

Feels like a scab has been ripped off and the wound is fresh again......

E- I KNOW that you are not forgetting who your biggest fan is...

The one thing you have on your side that WW may not have...your faith in God and knowing that Jesus has always taken care of you and will continue to do so.

He has wrote out a plan for us and it may be what we want and it may not...whatever happens is his will...we have to trust that he knows whats better for us than we do!

I'm not trying to kick you for your feelings, don't get me wrong...I understand...I'm in the same boat...

But Let go and let God...

Have faith that IT will all work out the way it's suppose too!

YOU, dear sir, have the upper hand! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />