weaver:

That's pretty good!

At this point, I still don't have the marriage that I want, or even believe I deserve. Maybe I never will, with my W, but as you said I don't feel that "losing" is on the horizon either. Regardless of what we decide 2 do.

For example, in spite of that cool discussion about CA last week, I saw that RM is still in my W's 'to' list in her email account, when I helped her spell-check a letter she was sending 2 someone else about a job. I still have no idea whether she's having contact with him occasionally or if she just hasn't deleted his address. Most interesting, I wasn't phased by the "discovery".

I do intend 2 ask her 2 completely $h!tcan the bass 2rd, but now, for a while yet, is not the time. We're still dealing with her mom and sister not wanting 2 move out of our rental house so we can sell it, and not paying rent but expecting us 2 accept absurd offers 2 sell the house 2 my SIL.

We've got 2 lawyers on the problem, and you would not believe the rent laws in L.A. I swear, if L.A.'s rent laws were part of the Geneva Convention at the end of WWII, The allies would not have been allowed 2 bother Hitler or Hirohito about waging war on their neighbors. The courts would side with the axis.

As it stands now, we lose a ton of money either way - whether we sell the house at a huge loss 2 my SIL or force them out via an eviction (which will take at least a YEAR). So you can imagine the character-building, even marriage-building discussions that my W and I have been having over the past several months that this nonsense has already been going on (almost a year, this time, alone).

Ultimately, it'd be nifty 2 talk about things other than finances and wayward in-laws. I'd love 2 learn, without ancillary crap 2 deal with, whether my W and I are "meant 2 be 2gether" or not. Look forward 2 it, in fact.

-ol' 2long

“Do I got it about right?”

Close enoughie.

Some comments:

“...there were many times when I couldn't figure out if either of you really wanted your marriage or not...but now I can see that those times were merely short set-back times, or times when you were emotionally triggered or times perhaps when you were unsure because the road had been so long and painful at times.”

There were times, still are as 2 notes, when I did not know what I want. I am human, at least partially so, I think. I still occasionally fall down that hole with no bottom to it. But I have learned there are things hanging off the sides to grab onto and to pull myself back up with. I no longer worry needlessly in free-fall.

“…you both had a clear idea of where you wanted (want) your marriage to go, what directions you wanted your new marriage to take...complete with how you relate to one another.”

Yes. But that vision was very distorted and blurry at first. It has been difficult to see through the tears at times. It is hard to remember the objective is draining the swamp when up to your armpits in alligators.

“Basically I think you took a picture in your mind of a new marriage and set about to make that happen...starting with yourselves…”

Yes, starting with me. I needed to get my life back first. My life, not just my M. I used to be a pretty interesting guy. 20 years of total unremitting sacrifice left me no more than a shell. No personality even. It’s nice to be real again.

“…and keeping in the back of your mind that it may not happen, and if not divorce would still be an option.”

It still may not happen. Outlook for our M is better than it has ever been, actually. I realize the attachment of her VLTA (to OM or to the generic feelings) or the underlying demons sometimes driving FWW could dominate again at any time. But, I know I will not only survive but thrive either way.

This statement is so simple to type yet so not-easy to achieve. Three years of continuous self-improvement has been required, and I will not let it end until I die. And I hope not even then.

“You made a picture in your mind of what you wanted and you set a coarse, attempting to control only your own part in it and using the concepts of UL...patience, forgiveness, loving detachment, hope.”

I want me. W can then choose what she wants in the light of day.

Hope is not a method, but it is great aspic for the other three.

“No regrets with big rewards either way.”

Could not have said it better myself.

“I worry about some on the board right now that don't seem to understand how important a clear idea of what they need to do...goals, plans.”

It takes time. What a BS must do is not automatic or self-evident. Sometimes it is as counter intuitive as instrument flying at night in a storm. Do not trust your inner ear. Trust your instruments, your tools. It takes lots of study and practice to do it right (as in not crash and burn). BS must have patience with themselves, too.

“It's really very inspiring.”

You too. Weav. Truly.

With prayers,

Thank you for your kindness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And bumpity bump for someone who might need this right now.

OK, weav.

And plank can have his thread back.

I think I should wander by the campfire anyways. It''s been a while. And I'm cold.

Anything left to drink there, or has 2long been by already?

Aphelion don’t worry about treading on this thread. It’s not mine. LOL.

I’m not that much of a control phreak even though I also complain about the way the silverware is lined up in the dishwasher as I read about a previous post on this thread.

One thing that I can say here is that I learn. Just when I think things are turning old hat around here for me I get the chance to read some great thoughts like the posts I’ve been reading on here.

A lot of times I get caught up in the “me” of everything that has to do with the journey through A’s.

One thing that I’ve just really let sink in good here in the last HOUR is that my path, my story, is just one arithmetic result of forces colliding and the resulting scattering of debris in all directions.

Nearly all A’s are the same on one hand. They all seem to respond to Harley’s approach to DESTROY the adulterer’s A through plans A & B, but the recovery processes are highly personalized.

To me it’s the picking up of the pieces that is the most difficult part. To me it’s where support has been the most effective.

Building is always harder than tearing apart.

Recovery seems like the longest road to walk here in the A arena for sure.

The one thing that I’m having a tough time with from the discussion here is the concept of man needing unconditional acceptance or love.

That, to me, is too indigestible to even consider at this point in my life.

Maybe I just can’t walk across the rice paper yet.

I can honestly say that I don’t have the capacity to love unconditionally. There are some things that are just too far away from who I am and what I know to be true about ME to be palatable.

I love everyone that is close to me in my life; that number has been paired down to a very few folks since the A.

One thing that I had to let go of during recovery, during the beginnings of recovery, was the concept of the dying fantasy that I wanted to live with my W.

I wanted that picturesque thing that is NOT REAL and every ounce of me fought against the notion that I had to abandon that.

What you have left is a pretty good foundation with an opportunity to build something worth having or bulldozing the razed remnants away.

Opportunity is defined by each one of our own perspectives on things.

ARKIE ^^^


actually I don't believe Plank was talking about Plan A (I believe) ... but RECOVERY requiring self improvement



is self improvement important for recovery?

actually, I am pretty certain without self improvement ... recovery does not stick ...

Pep

Thanks, Plank, i needed to read you posts on honesty, reasons why, and the affair world. I cried it all out again. Feeling better.

For now....I can only say thanks for showing me, that although my marriage is over...I'm going to be a better man.

I've known that....but here at present started losing track of that.

OH I thought it said important in affair busting...

disregard everything I said...

ARK