Well, I talked to her at lunch time. She asked what she did wrong this time. I said nothing, I just don't think you are giving us a chance. I told her that the messesnger thing is not allowing her to let him go. That keeping his old e-mails is not helping her let him go. That keeping his pictures on the computer is not helpingher let him go. Of course she let me have it for even looking at her old e-mails. I simply said I had to because you don't tell me what is going on and have lied to me about everything that happened between the two of them.
SHe says " well I will never stop having feelings for him!" I said I doubt you will until you let him go. That I felt our M didn'tstand a chance with him waiting in the wings for her to run to whenever I upset her. She says, " o.k. when I get home I will just throw everything that I have away!" I told her that she was overreacting that i just didn't want anything related to him around thats all. She says I am tired of talking about this. That she is confused and doesn't know what our next step toward rebuilding our M should be.
I told her of course you don't you aren't even willing to let go of HIM to give "US" a chance!" Then I said ok I will let you get back to your lunch and said goodbye.

That's pretty typical response from an "alien". Now, get her a nice baubble you know she'd like, not too expensive, but "nice", and if she follows through with deleting ALL the stuff regarding the OM, tell her "thank you" with more than just words. Might not hurt to have a long stemmed rose within reach as well. Thank her for taking action that "might just" give the marriage a chance.

If she doesn't do it, put the baubble away for a later date and throw the rose in the trash, but don't "hide" it.

Read the last few posts above and see what you have to do next, if she won't take the steps TONIGHT, that you discussed over lunch today.

SD

Be careful. It is often after conversations like this that your WW will want to reach out to the OM and initiate contact. That is why you just get rid of it yourself and put barriers in place to prevent further contact. You don't get it ChiDad, you are asking a drug addict to flush down their remaining stash. They might just try and smoke some real quick before they get rid of it. They may also stash some away so you can't find it. If you know where the stash is just flush it away for them. Your WW isn't going to do anything for the M for several months. Quit expecting anything out of her. She is a junkie right now and incapable of functioning properly, much less fixing a M. Quit leaving things up to her. You can't trust a junkie with anything. Please, ChiDad, help her overcome her addiction. She is trying, but as long as you leave the drugs in her control, she is bound to relapse. Help her get through this. Take charge!

I heard this a few times, word for word. She wants to be back in a happy M, but how? How does she even start to deal with all that happened?

This is where you CD have to lead her back to the M and happieness. It's called being the lighthouse. I told my wife that I know she is confused right now, but she would be happy again one day and to trust me about the NC thing. NC + time = us in love again.

Toss her chit out and let her be mad that you took away her lovie things. Tough chit!!! She won't do it so you need to. Don't make a big deal of it just do it.

Also, you can't reason with a junkie. If a junkie could be reasoned with, they wouldn't still be a junkie in the first place.

ChiDad, eventually you are going to have to delete everything from her computer (she ain't gonna), so I don't understand why you don't just get it over with now and spare yourself the agony you are going through. Get 'er done!

You know I'm right.

I do Jim,
I am going to see what transpires tonite. If she deletes them so much the better. If I do I am sure she will find another way to get her fix. I appreciate everybody's advice. Some I use some I tweak a little bit. Some of it I ponder and try to come up with another solution anyway.
The way I see it we all have different situations. Our wives handle things differently. I know how mine reacts to certain things. I am more comfortable with her making the decision to "delete" him from our life. I believe that if she herself does it that it will help her to let go. Whereas if i did I would be stealing something from her.
I know that isn't the case. I just feel that it would be more productive for "her" to delete him from our existance than for me to do it.

On a similar note. While messenger is open we can see that he is online. Would it be bad for me to say something like this? " You see him online right? Messenger automatically set your status to away after 5 mins. of inactivity. Do you think there is a chance that he has another woman he is chatting/cybering with? possibly a few other women. Just let him go he is doing fine in his fantasy world and not being your only one. Lets do what we need to do to recover our marriage and be true to each other.

You'll just force her to "defend" him, and it hurts every time they do it. During this whole ordeal, it is in your best interest NEVER to denegrate the OM. It backfires every time.

SD

PS: when SHE can say something negative about the OM, THEN you know she's well into withdrawal, or clear through it. Even then, don't join in.

CD-

SD is on the money about it forcing her to defend OM if you do that...there's nothing to be gained by making her do that.

I went through this whole issue with my wife after her emotional affair. It took about 6 weeks to finally get full NC to go into place. She followed the same "WS Script"...insisting that she be allowed to keep him as 'a friend', throwing a fit whenever I voiced how much that continued contact hurt me personally and prevented us from recovering our marriage.

She refused to get it too...that until she got him out of her life and out of her system, there wasn't any chance for US to recover at all. I think what finally got her to just barely start seeing it was when our SECOND MC was saying the same thing as me AND the same thing as our first MC...she couldn't keep him and work on our marriage at the same time.

Don't back down with this...at all. Make it clear that you're NOT sorry for checking her IM's or emails. That you're doing so to protect yourself and your marriage...and that you fully plan on doing so for as long as needed. Don't be angry, but don't be a whimp about it either. State it matter-of-factly.

And set the point blank expectation that you completely expect NC to be established and enforced...no compromise. That you will take any and all measures needed to protect your marriage...but you'd rather do that WITH her than fighting her every step of the way.

Take time to do the carrot of plan A too tho. Gently remind and show your wife all the years of good things that you two have shared. Bring up good memories and laugh at the funny ones...even if you find you're the only one laughing. Even if she tries to ignore that, it will still plant the seed of doubt about any choice of leaving you.

This all worked for me at least. I refused to back down at all about NC...and made it very clear I was going to 'check up on her' to protect myself and my marriage. She was FURIOUS when I confronted her about his email to her and her response...but that directly led to her telling him to stop emailing and IM'ing, "because [Owl] reads my emails and I don't want it to hurt him anymore".

Last and final contact occurred five days later.

Same here as SD and Owl.

The hurt my wife caused me didn't stop unitl there was NO contact plus time for WD.

I know you don't want to play games or have the same hurt day after day so make the change now. In your own way, but do it.

Dear CD,
Maybe I can give you another way of understanding this:
With children, if you argue with them about something that you feel you need to protect them from (ex: don't cross the street or no, you can't go to the mall, ect.) it tends to make them feel like they can still negotiate with you--that they still have a chance to change your mind, that they might have a leg to stand on, that they have a point that is worth discussing--know what I mean?? In these situations, it is usually best to take action and explain your action after the fact.

You need to take a strong stand about your relationship with your wife. Another man has been involved with her and she is leaving the door open to continued involvement. Your actions make a strong statement to her about how you feel about your love for her and about your relationship with her and about your family life.

Sometimes, these strong, quiet statements are needed: They say more to her than a million words about how you don't want her to be involved with OM. Just like you can say, "I love you", or you can take some action that tells her you love her. Talk is cheap, actions are strong.

Delete all that stuff, throw out all that stuff. Do it quietly but do it. Then tell her you did it because you and she are an intimate team, soulmates, two but like one, a partnership in love and in life---whatever words work to let her know that you two are a unit that no other man has the right to breach. Take that quiet, strong action. You are well within your right to do this. She is your wife. This action will let her know that you are strong, that you know what a marriage is all about and that you are in this marriage to stay.

Once I figured out the EA that had been going on with my FWH and old H. S. girlfriend, I tore into tiny shreds the pictures she had sent him and threw them in the trash. He did not say a word. He was further along in recovery than is your wife, so I would not throw stuff out and let her find the remainders--torn up stuff--just throw it in a dumpster or where ever she will never see it again. Delete the computer stuff thoroughly.

Does this help you see it from our perspective? I feel it is the perspective of a Spouse that has extremely reasonable boundaries for his or her Partner For Life. Remember the vows?? Does that leave any room for another in your spouse's life???
Lake

And when, not if, she unleashes her fog-inspired fury upon you, you remain calm, completely under control, remain factual, and on your mantra...you are committed to do everything in your power to give your marriage a chance.

Hope this evening is falling under the MB guidelines for you... and that you are OK and feeling strong.

SD

ok deleted everything myself this morning.

THANK YOU...Now was that so bad? If she starts throwing a fit just ignore her. It's over.

Well done!

SD

Clap Clap Clap <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

not so bad. I deleted them , also found some voice clips. deleted those too. Paused for a moment before I emptied the trecycle bin then sent it all into vapor. Last night we had a talk. I told her how it makes me feel to have "STeve" sitting right on our desk. She says it's not like it was a physical affair or anything. Again I lost it I may have unloaded a ton of LB's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I said " I think it was physical ! (gets graphic here) I said " While you were on the phone saying " F*&k me Steve! F*&k me Steve and he sat there jerking him self off , while you..... I said I don't even like to think about what you were doing. It was physical!" She sat there in stunned silence. Looked pretty sad. I know it was probably bad to stir up the past but, I thought it was important for her to know that I didn't see this behaviour as innocent harmless fun. I told her that as long as he was in our house figuratively. That I would find it hard to stop playing those scenes over in my head. I said "I just want to put the past behind us, to be able to stop thinking about that horrible image and start thinking about our future".
I said " I want to start thinking about us planting flowers together in the spring , or sitting next to the firepit holding hands and enjoying each other again with no outside interference."
I said "as long as he is within easy reach I feel that it is a threat to me and our M." I also told her that I feel like if I slip and get drunk or do something else thoughtless that she was keeping him nearby just in case. To hedge her bets if you will.
She said " Well you stopped drinking for a couple of months before, then started right up again." I told her that " I thouht about getting drunk yesterday , so I called her and told her I was feeling weak and asked for her support." She says why cant you just come home from work after a bad day and have 1 beer?
I said I can but I used to drink to get drunk and forget about what bothered me then pass out. Now I know that it is not the right solution, the right solution is to talk to my wife about what bothers me and to ask her to care for me and help me feel better.
I get home from work 2 hours before she does which leaves me vulnerable to getting drunk before she is even there to help me.
So I started working out , started dinner, and washed a few dishes . Before I knew it she was home and I was still sober. I told her that I have found ways to get around those self destructive habits that I never thought of before. I told her that I promised her I would stop doing it and I intend to keep my promise.
She said "I know I can see that you are different than when you said it before." I asked her to trust me this time and she will see that things between us will be great again. No timeline, but it will happen.

I think I should go out and buy the LB book. I obviously have issues regarding them. Just get this zing in my brain that says launch!

Speaking the truth is not a LB...losing your temper and/or making it Personal and displaying "angry outburst" can be LB's. Sometimes it's a matter of timing and delivery.

Don't beat yourself up over this. You made a strong point. Now offset any damage that may have been done with love and charm. None of us survived this horrible process without screwups. It's what you do about learning and growing and correcting that's important!

SD