Anyone have any experience with a very cunning, very manipulative OW? I feel like she has her claws into my WH so deeply that he will never escape, even if he wanted to.

Some examples:
One of the emails that I discovered (this was d-day): It was clear that the context of the email was that WH had asked for some time apart. Her response (the content of the email) she talked about how she had already given him time apart and that he couldn’t stay away. She referenced times that we were away on family vacations and he could only go a couple of days before he called her (addition metaphor, anyone??). She talked about a time when WH and FIL had gone on a boating trip for several days, and when WH came home, he told her how much he had missed his family, but he couldn’t wait to see her. She closed this email with (and I quote) I HAVE THE POWER. (yes, all caps)

Very shortly after d-day, her (now) STBXH told me that he “had no doubt” that she was the instigator in the relationship. I know this man quite well (we were all friends and frequently did things as couples), and he is very low key and never has an unkind word to say about anyone, even OW.

At a neighborhood party two summers ago (a few months after the PA started), OW appeared in her bikini and jumped into the pool shortly after it got dark. The odd thing was, none of the other 40 or so people there were in the pool. A few minutes later, OW’s former neighbor and the husband of her “best friend” jumped into the pool and proceeded to take off his swim trunks. (lots of sort of nervous, uncomfortable laughter) Then my WH jumped in (to save her maybe? Yuck). The three of them proceeded to swim around for 10-15 minutes. No one else swam (the guy was still naked). The next day when we were driving our kids to swim lessons, OW told me how embarrassed she was when the former neighbor took off his trunks. I thought to myself, why didn’t you get out?

One of the first times that I went out to dinner with OW and some other girlfriends, her best friend (wife of the skinny-dipper) joked about how her H had a crush on OW. I remember thinking how I would hate to think that and how I could never joke about such a thing. Interestingly, OWBF and the skinny-dipper had just recently moved out of the neighborhood to a home some 10 miles away. This was just about the time the A started with my WH.

OW laughed once about how embarrassed she was when one of the neighborhood boys (and friend of DS) caught her in her underwear. Sort of this teasing, “I scarred him for life” type thing. To me, really inappropriate.

OW and I were “friends” throughout the A. Our kids played together very frequently. However, pre-A, the kids would only get together during t-ball/baseball season. They went to different schools, sort of had their own friends, and although we live nearby, we lived far enough apart that we had to drive the kids back and forth (they were too young then to ride bikes that distance). The A stated March 12, 2004. During spring break of that year (first week in April), OW’s son called to play with my DS every single day, and from that point on, OW’s son would call to play incessantly, to the point where my DS would complain…”I don’t want to play with ***!”

On DS birthday one year ago, DS did not want to invite OW son to his party. He wanted friends from school to come. On the Monday before his party (which was on Friday), DS was presented with a very expensive birthday gift from OW’s son. WH told DS he must invite OW’s son to the party; that it would be rude if he didn’t.

OW complained to the management at the local market that one of the guys at the meat counter (how appropriate) was flirting with her, and she was a married woman and this made her so uncomfortable. The guy was disciplined.

OW complained to my WH that as she would walk to the same local market, one of the firefighters at the fire station that she would pass would flirt with her and how this made her so uncomfortable.

OW would frequently disparage her H to her friends and me; hide money from him, etc. Shortly after discovery, I found a bank receipt from an account that my WH had opened after he moved out. The receipt was for an $800+ deposit, and written on it was “$ is OW’s money” and was signed by WH and OW. I flipped out, and when I confronted him on this, he claimed that it was OW’s money from her waitressing job, and that she didn’t want her H to get it. (What, she can’t take the 15 minutes it takes to open up her own account???)

OW was a SAHM and had been for 12 years. Before kids, she had been a special ed teacher. She did not volunteer, had no hobbies, didn’t really bake or cook well, and didn’t take a part-time job when the kids were in school. Not to disparage other SAHMs, but I don’t know what she did with her time except go shopping to spend her lawyer husband’s money. Suddenly, last spring, she decided to get a job waitressing at the neighborhood coffee shop…the very coffee shop that my WH (a cop) would hang out each morning and have breakfast. Keep in mind that we live in a mid-sized city with about a million restaurants, stores, offices, etc. This coffee shop is literally around the corner from my house, and she continued to work there after D-day. I exposed to the owner (whose kids go to Catholic school) and he said he wouldn’t get involved. I told him to ask his wife what she thought and walked away.

And the kicker…
One night, I totally lost it (see my thread for the whole ugly story…please know that I am horrified at what I did) when I discovered WH at her house. I barged into the house, slapped her and bit him when he grabbed my arms and wouldn’t let go. After I left, the two of them decided that the next day they would go get a personal protection order to keep me away from her. After my WH left, she called the police and had me arrested. When WH found out, MIL told me that he collapsed on the floor and wept. Nonetheless, he did not end the A.

I was charged with illegal entry, assault (on OW) and domestic violence (on my WH)…al misdemeanors. When it was time to go to court, the prosecutor was going to drop all but the DV and recommend a diversion program in which the charges would be dismissed in six months thereby leaving me with no record whatsoever. The prosecutor called my WH to ask if that was okay, and my MIL eavesdropped on that conversation and assured me that WH was very adamant that the charges be dropped. I can only assume that OW got a similar call. When I went to court to finalize this deal for the DV/diversion program, the deal was suddenly off the table and I had to plead guilty to the assault charge. I now have a criminal record—today’s version of the scarlet letter. I have never even had a parking ticket. Again, it seems clear to me that OW did not want those charges dropped. Keep in mind that this assault did not send anyone to the hospital, no blood was drawn, etc. It was a really, really bad move on may part, but I was totally at the breaking point, barely holding it together, not eating…rock bottom.

Again, my WH is still involved with her. I am the mother of his children, the woman he vowed to…well, we all know what they vowed, don’t we. He’s a cop, he knows what jail is like, and I was there for two days and two nights with the prostitutes and addicts and awful, awful guards (the prostitutes and addicts were not nearly as scary, and I felt great compassion for them and they really helped me). And WH doesn’t seem to be phased. I’ve seen him weep for what has happened, but he doesn’t seem to be able to pull himself out of her web.

My therapist (who is totally non-judgmental and has NEVER in the five months I’ve been seeing him said anything blatantly negative about anyone) told me this week that OW is “trouble.”

I see her as a black widow, and I know she will destroy WH. I am determined now to be a lighthouse, and I am much stronger than I have been in the past, probably even pre-A. My question to those of you with WH or FWH, have any of you experienced the sort of really manipulative and cunning OW? Any advice or experiences you can offer?

Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to try to give you a picture of OW.
LilSis

I'm not sure where you are in all this but IMHO plan B will end the OW. Plan B where she is responsible for meeting all of his needs. She is self-absorbed, enjoys the attention of men, likes money and has major issues w/ self-esteem. a good plan A followed by a strong plan B...whe will crash & burn...her true colors will show neon bright.

Melody Lane and AmIok have suggested a quick and very effective Plan A, followed by a very dark Plan B. I haven't done much Plan Aing since this all started...didn't know what to do and reacted on emotion.

I regret that, now. I've been growing and changing and getting stronger, though, and I'm determined to demonstrate that to him through my actions over the next few weeks. Knock his socks off. Then I'll go Plan B.

I just worry though, because I think she has a tremendous amount of patience and won't show her colors until she gets him to commit to her or has destroyed him so completely that he is absolutely trapped.

MIL confided to me that FIL actually used that word, too, that he saw WH as "entrapped."

You've got 2 of the best advising you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Plan A is hard, cause you really want to shake them and make them snap out of it. I agree the best way to do that is a good plan A followed by a strong plan B. Don't beat yourself up for being emotional...I think that actually supports the plan A/plan B stratedgy. WS thinks you'll get all emotional and weak....then when you don't fall apart it REALLY makes an impact. They seem to be immune to tears almost like they feed off it. Don't waste anymore tears!

ETA:

Sounds like she likes to have several irons in the fire, she might not like having to give so much attention to one. There is no way he will be absolutely trapped as long as you become his lighthouse in the fog and give him a map to show the way home (aka plan A and plan B letter)

This will work in your favor. Your OW is pretty typical. She is controlling because she knows she does not have a firm grasp on him. And she understands that he is infatuated and addicted to her, which is very fleeting. This is why she has such a short leash on him. This is a HUGE lovebuster that is likely already working against her.

Just stick with your plan, LilSis! I think you have some GREAT opportunities over Xmas because you have something she does not have: HIS FAMILY and HIS HISTORY. Christmas will be very hard with her.

Thanks, ChaCha! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have NO DOUBT that this situation will require Plan B ... so get it ready but follow Mel's lead as to when to launch it....

and this ....



will give your Plan B letter some MEAT !!!!

as in: "I can no longer risk contact with you. Already my desire to keep this marriage together has caused me to behave in ways so uncharacteristic of me, that I now have a criminal record! I must protect my brokenheart and my love for you .... Contact with you poses a very great risk for me while you are involved with OW."

Get your Plan B ducks lined up ... this is your ace in the hole ... your husband does NOT want to lose you ... and he must experience that reality in order to see what his ridiculous affair will cost him and your family.

Hang tough for now ... Plan A like you have drugged your "taker" into submission .... and then, when the time is ripe for Plan B ... do it like a pro ... all business and NONemotional .... and as dark as you possibly can go ... Plan B needs to be a reality bite ... especially after an excellent Plan A....

see an attorney & acquaint yourself with your rights
get money socked away in a safety deposit box
along with the "proof" of dultery

and for heaven's sake ... avoid OW like the plague that she is ...

take care

Pep

PS

do NOT tell your H about this site ... he will share with OW and she will come here and read about YOUR PLANS ...

Pep

I agree with Melody. Hang in there. You have all the power. The OW is sadly mistaken.

I know is is heartbreaking right now, buy years from now you will look back fondly at the time the cop's wife went to jail, and was comforted by the hookers, in order to save her family.

You need to avoid further confrontations and be the lighthouse. We will help you stay strong.

Your husband WILL see her true colors, just stay OUT of the way, and work on yourself.

I agree with all the others regarding your situation. I mainly want to share, in support of you, that the OW in your situation sounds EXACTLY like the one who tried to destroy my marriage and my life.

You said:



Yes, the OW in my situation had THE POWER. Steve Harley called her a DRUG DEALER and my FWH was strongly ADDICTED as is true with your WH.

Yes, the answer will eventually be PLAN B so that he can experience her for whom she REALLY is....



This is accurate. It was SOOOOO difficult for my H to get away from her..even when he knew it was wrong and felt that the affair was destroying him.

Mimi, your situation came to mind when I read her posts. I agree this OW sounds just like yours. Very conniving, very aware of her power. Very creepy....

Creepy is RIGHT, Mel...

PEOPLE OF THE LIE...Pep knows about this.....

Moreso than a BLACK WIDOW..such a woman is best described as being a WITCH...

Some of the best advice that I got from my GFs, Lil Sis..was to STAY AWAY FROM HER..because such EVIL FORCES will also ATTRACT you...

Wow! Thank you all for your responses! I know I can do it with all the support from you here. I will swallow hard and put on a huge smile and bake cookies and act light and airy and happy every chance I get.

mimi: People of the Lie was recommended to me by a friend as well. I did read Road Less Traveled and loved it. She IS creepy! I've used that word as well. She is evil. I've often wondered if she was a victim of sexual abuse...the only girl in a very strictly religious family with three brothers. It would explain some of the overtly sexualized behavior. I absolutely am staying away from her (have to as a matter of fact as a condition). No question. I will not risk anything like that again. My children would be the ones who would pay, and they've paid enough already.

Quote: "This is accurate. It was SOOOOO difficult for my H to get away from her..even when he knew it was wrong and felt that the affair was destroying him."

I sense this is where he is. He KNOWS what he is doing is very, very wrong, but has no map out. I've seen him cry over hurting me, and when I showed him our wedding pictures. I've never seen him cry until the A was exposed I think he is torn up and conflicted. That's why the lighthouse thing works so well for me (besides, we always had this thing for visiting lighthouses--we live in Mich. near the lake and did a lot of boating so it has this great symbolism for me).

Any feedback from your FWH about anything in particular that made it through the fog during this period in his A?

Pep: I LOVE your suggestions for PBL! I was wondering what I would say and this gives me a great place to start and build from.

Mel: I've got a few tricks up my sleeve for knocking his socks off (as you suggested) during the holidays...wish me luck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I already put your advice into action on Wednesday when he was dropping the boys off, I happened to be bringing out the garbage at the same time (coincidence??? not really...:) ). When I walked past the truck, I gave him a huge smile and kept walking toward the house. He stepped out to help the kids out and yelled, "Hi!" and I turned around and smiled and yelled hi back. Okay, it's not much, but it's a start from the scowls I used to throw his way. The thing was, it must have made an impression because when I spoke to MIL last night she had heard about "how much it meant to him." And MIL is at their winter place in Pheonix, 3000 miles away, so it's not like she has direct, frequent contact with him.

I'll focus on that as progress...and I've got a number of opportunities coming up do more of the same.

Truly, truly, I can't thank you enough! I have felt so alone and uncertain about what to do...and everyone thinks I should just kick him to the curb for what he's done. Your support and wise advice is a lighthouse to me!

LilSis

Your job is not to protect your husband from every woman who is willing to hook up with a married man. I ended up with a harassment order from OW and agreed to NC, after which she called my H to get the A started again.

It was a difficult lesson to learn. In our state, there is no law against breaking the marital vow. Your H has to keep the vow without any legal consequences to him. The only consequence can be Plan B. You cannot change your behavior. You can change your own. The only way to get the message across that an A is intolerable is to not tolerate it by getting away from him.

By the way, I've been a SAHM for 7 years and just got a 20 hour a week job now that the youngest is in school. It's much easier to work!

If you do a search on Sophia for more than 3 years ago (Sophia being the name of my H's OW), it was about that time that I started to wise up to the fact that Sophia was not the problem. My husband made a choice and then another choice and then more and more choices to spend time with and develop a relationship with another woman despite the obvious pain it caused me. He could have walked away. He could have filed a harassment order against her. Instead, I ended up with the harassment order.

Forget the OW. There are lots and lots of women out there willing to help your husband break his marriage vows. She just happened to be the one he ended up with. The real problem is his willingness to hurt you.

Respectful

I am very sorry as to what you are going through. It is a shame that your H and the ho are treating you this way. I came to your thread at someones suggestion since I am a retired cop...
I am a bit confused about the following statement that you made.


Why did you need to plead guilty? Did you have a lawyer? Was this your attorney's recommendation? Technically, you are guilty of the crimes... and I say technically...but before pleading anything out, there has to be an advantage for you doing so. You DID the things you were accused of... but in all reality I don't see a jury convicting you of those charges.... a judge, yes... a jury no. And bottom line is... you would NEVER do jail time for this as it is a first offense.
YOur offense will carry with it no scarlet letter... since no one was seriously injured... unless your lawyer is a complete a$$... these are nothing more than misdemeanors.
As far as your H goes... yes, he is in a very bad way right now. She is not to blame though... she is a no good ho and deserves to rot in he!!... but he is a big boy that is making his own decisions... and he is choosing to be with a manipulative and coniving person. The best thing you can do for your H right now is to hold a mirror up to what he is doing and help him see her for the ho that she is.
Be a beacon for him... but do not make it your responsibility to save him from her. HE needs to make that call. You should, if you have not done so already... expose this affair to his supervisors and trusted friends and family. Even though no crime is being committed, the police force will be interested in what you have to say.
Stand out front of the coffee shop with a picket and without naming names let the patrons know that there is an employee that thinks nothing of screwing married men.
Make an absolute pest of yourself.
Contact the IRS... I suspect her ploys with money have more to do with her wanting to avoid taxes... either way... just another thing to make her uncomfortable. She will eventually get the hint that you are not someone to be messed with. The IRS will take tips annonymously and will often times result in an audit. (and send a copy of that bank receipt to her H).
I have a lot of other suggestions that would make her life he!!... but for right now, I hope some of this might help you...

Oh, and please remember to take care of you.

Hi Lilsis,

I just wanted to point out something that jumped out at me while reading your post. "The deal was off the table" and you were arrested. I can almost guarantee you what happened. She blackmailed your WH. This woman is a psycho and your WH is a cop. She has some kind of dirt on him, maybe just the affair dirt, and she is holding it over his head. He is probably worried that he might lose his job, etc. The crying that he does appears to me that he knows he is hurting you, loves you, but is in over his head. Go rent Fatal Attraction. Is there one close friend of your WH's that you could go talk to and let him know what is really going on? My Ex is also a cop and I was surprised at how supportive of ME all his friends were.

Don't go picket the restaurant, people will start to think you're crazy and won't believe you. Just smile and hold your head high and people will SEE the truth.

You need to protect yourself and your children from that loser 'ho. She is going to control, manipulate and suffocate him, and then move on to someone else for the attention she seems to so desperately crave.

Good luck and take good care of yourself.

Count me in on having a very manipulative OW in my situation also. She wasn't just manipulative, but she had a goal and was determined at all costs to achieve it.

I was horrified at the things I heard in her months of voice pages to my then husband, unbeknownst to both of them. 11+ months worth, averaging 14 a day. There were times I almost felt sorry for her hearing the lengths she'd go to make him hers, it was pathetic. That sounds so disrespectful, but she was so desperate and coniving.

She "played" the needy, sex and jealousy cards to the hilt. and she was not needy, quite the contrary, she was a bulldozer ... pushy and mean doesn't cover it.

I'll never for the life of me understand why these type of woman feel that having someone else's husband will save their lives. But they do.

One thing I heard that scared me the most, was when she started saying she wished she was me. That she wanted to be me in every way, and have everything I had, career, husband, house, etc. etc. It became excessive. (I wondered if she wanted my cancer too?)

Then the harassment started, and I was forced to take her to court, filing an anti-harassment charge against her using my ans machine msgs from her to me (calling me a cancerous C word). The judge went after her and told her she'd be incarcerated if she violated it. (BTW, I had never met the woman before the court date) I have to admit, I was more fightened after that beacuse now she was extremely angry.

To this day, regardless of how much she manipulated, I still hold the responsibility of my ex-H's affair with her squarley on HIS shoulders. He was not a victim. He made the choice.

Jo

for the record... unless you live in a very small town, the police have NO say over what charges are brought against you... nor do they have any say in plea bargains. This was most likely due to pressure from the "victim" here that does have the most power to see that a plea bargain is not offered.

I thought I could offer a little inspiration for your desktop. In my experience little things mean a lot. It will remind you of all of us pulling and praying for you.

Wallpaper 1
Wallpaper 2

MEDC, to respond to your questions about the case:
I did have an attorney. He led me to believe that the offer (DV w/ diversion) was pretty much a done deal when we went to the settlement conference (w/ the judge and assistant prosecutor) a week ago Monday. It was on the following Friday that we went back to finalize it, and discovered that it was a no-go. The chief county prosecutor himself (the guy who tries all the big-time murders) nixed it. I was very suspcious that my WH had pulled strings until MIL told me about the conversation she overhead with the prosecutor. So I'm fairly certain that OW was the one who put up a stink at me getting off so "light." (As if what she and WH wasn't an assault of a much worse and brutal kind.)

I pled guilty because I had three charges against me and unless I wanted to go to trial on all three, it was take the one and the other two were dismissed. I know...cop friends have told me that I would have been a very sympathetic witness, etc., but I just can't stomach a trial. I also spoke to another attorney who used to work in the prosecutor's office who told me that if I withdrew my plea and made waves that the prosecutor would go after me with big guns and it could end up worse. I've got enough going on, and I can't afford a ton of legal fees either. I wanted it DONE. After a bunch of boo-hooing, I decided it was not the end of the world and I'll live. I've lived through worse. I know I will not do jail time; probably court costs and some community service. The woman who is doing the pre-sentence investigation was horrified at my circumstances and I'm sure will be sympathetic (she suggested I withdraw the plea because she thought it was so unfair). I also know the judge, who thinks I'm a "lovely woman." He had been in favor of the DV/diversion deal, too. Hopefully at sentencing in January all will go well (doesn't seem like much has gone well recently, so my luck's bound to change sometime, right?).

I have exposed to ALL...after my arrest, everyone at the dept. knew. That kind of gossip spreads like wildfire. As a matter of fact, one of WH's co-workers came to visit me in jail. Another cop friend who is retired told me he doesn't know how WH can even show his face at the dept.; he broke the unwritten code about taking care of one's own problems w/o involving the cops. All the cops I have spoken to are very disdainful of WH's behavior and while not approving of my behavior (rightfully!), they are sympathetic. No one EVER thought it possible that WH would be less than morally upright. He fooled A LOT of people, and cops tend to take pride in not being fooled.

One thing that has always bugged me is that WH works patrol in our neighborhood, which is also OW's neighborhood. After d-day, I told OWH to call WH's supervisor and ask for him to be reassigned, but OWH never did (he's a super nice guy, but kind of a pansy).

You are right...none of OW's actions take WH off the hook. His pants didn't just fall off and no one made him lie. He absolutely has his own issues that he needs to own up to and address. My concern is to what lengths OW will go to hold on to him...and my fear that she is willing to do whatever it takes because she cannot afford to lose. She has three kids of her own who go to private school, no job and no marketable skills (she'll have to back to renew her teaching certificate). She'll get some spousal support from her STBXH for a couple of years and on-going child support, but that's not going to cut it. She needs a man. I guess she hasn't thought through how much a cop makes, especially one who is paying child support to his ex. She won't be shopping at Ann Taylor while the kids are at school anymore.

No, I don't live in a small town and I know that the cops didn't have anything to do with the charges that were brought...however I am not so naive that I don't think that my WH could have swayed things. He works with prosecutors all the time...he's one of their boys. However, as I said, it turns out that didn't happen; he asked for them to be dropped. I agree with you...I'm SURE it was the other "victim" who applied the pressure. I suppose she could have raised a stink for the prosecutors if it appeared they gave special treatment to a cop's wife. OW's STBXH is an attorney BTW.

Anyway...that was a long answer. Hope I answered your questions.

LilSis

Resilient: That woman (can one even call her that??) in your case sounds....wicked, evil, dispicable, scary, inhuman just for starters. Psychopathic maybe? In my case, the OW is too smart to show that side; she would never leave evidence. She is able to come off as the innocent bystander who is just following her (cold, hard unfeeling) heart.

OW's script: This is really so hard for me to know that I've hurt anyone, but I must be with my true love. We are soulmates and can't be torn apart. I'm so sorry; we never meant to hurt anyone. (Flash puppy dog eyes and summon up a crocodile tear) BS is SOOO scary and crazy! Please WH, protect me! What WILL I do? I will help everyone see how wrong she was for you by having her arrested. Now everyone will know why you had to leave her, WH. Then we will be the victims and she will be the criminal, and everyone will come to accept our relationship.

Fortunately, I do not believe they have fooled anyone, at least not anyone who knows me...and as far as anyone who doesn't know me, I've gotten to the point where I don't care what they think anyway. I know I can hold my head up. I'm a great mom with two beautiful, intelligent boys, I have a great job that I love, I have wonderful, supportive friends and family. I'm a fighter and a survivor and I know that even though there are still bad days, I WILL make it. (Que music)

I also agree that it is not all her fault. No matter how appealing she made herself, my WH failed to honor his commitment, in every way.

10swords: What a thoughtful gesture. Just the scene I would imagine: a warm, cozy house with lights shining. People her amaze me! Another "gift" from going through this is realizing the depths of compassion that people are capable of.

One book I read talked about how the soul is like a balloon...it's elastic. Through extreme suffering, the balloon expands...but also makes it capable of feeling extreme joy, love and compassion that would not have been possible had it not been stretched through suffering. That metaphor clicked with me.

Thank you again, all!
LilSis