I'm LOVING reading this .... you're going to be SMOKIN' tonight ... and will have him on his knees!

One little bit of caution .... you probably won't SEE that happen. You won't have the immediate satisfaction of seeing the effect you're having on him. Don't lose faith, though .... keep it up, even if there is no reaction -- or what seems like a negative reaction.

You've got a great plan ... stick with it!

And let us know how tonight goes!

-AmI.

She is a quick study! Don't forget the nice smelling perfume, nice makeup and hottie clothes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In answer to your question, yes, the OW that helped destroy my 25 year marriage was also very manipulative.

My daughters could always tell whether their daddy and the OW had broken up or were back together again. (They broke up and made up sometimes several times per week - very junior-high-ish was there supposedly REAL soul-mate relationship LOL)

When WH and OW were together OW only allowed him to see his daughters a couple of hours per week AND he had to check in with her by cellphone with her and tell her exactly which daughters were with him and where they were going. But when he was with the OW and OW's daughter our daughters were instructed they had to leave him a message on his phone (because she insisted his cell phone be off when he was with her). BTW, my daughters refused to leave messages for him and eventually demanded that he not have phone communication with OW during their visitation with the dad! Our youngest daughter once told me that she felt like her daddy was pretending she was dead when he was with OW and her little girl.

When WH and OW were broke up he wanted to hang around my home every day. He wanted to be there for dinner, watch movies with kids at my home, and even for me to come along on visitation with him and our daughters.

My WH also did the sobbing routine too... BUT evidently wasn't crying because he cared about how he was hurting us because he never stopped hurting us.

I heard once that REAL guilt prompts the guilty to stop whatever they're doing that makes them feel ashamed.
That makes sense to me. My WH would try to convince us that he still 'loved' us... but it didn't matter to us if he didn't love us enough to stop hurting us, if he didn't love us more than he 'loved' the OW, more than he wanted to destroy our marriage and family. Whatever it is he felt, and called 'love' for us, really didn't matter if it didn't prompt him to protect us from adultery and divorce.

I'm pretty sure his being so distraught was more about his cake-eating hopes being thwarted by his victims' non-cooperation. I think he was just feeling sorry for himself (still is). Many times he revealed to us that he thought we were being cruel to him if we couldn't just be happy for him and OW AND allow him to still be as much a part of our family as before! He even told me it was my job to tell our daughters that THEIR feelings were wrong - that they had no right to be upset.

In the long run it was the manipulations of the OW that brought an end to their adultery. I saw some evidence that the micro-short leash she tried to keep him on embarrassed and angered him. In any case they fought a lot (WAY more than we had during our marriage or even divorce) and eventually really did break up for good.

Yep, Mere, same scenario in my situation...

H "sneaking" to our sons' football games and "rushing" back to her after the game was over...YUCK...

And also the BREAKUP to MAKEUP...YUCK...

INCOMPREHENSIBLE !!!

you are getting wonderful advice here from the right people... just remember with all this flirting and suggestive banter to not let it go beyond that until such a time as your WH is tested for all STD's.
Good luck and you are doing very well.

Okay, friends, I'm back. I didn't blow it. I did what I needed to to, was charming and fun and chatted about friends and family. I looked great, smelled great, and had a great attitude. WH didn't seem to be angry or resentful, just normal. What's up with that? I swear he treats me like I'm his sister or something.

Here's the run down (if you don't care for all the details you can skip to later):

He dropped off the DSs about a half hour before we needed to leave so that DS11 could change into appropriate Christmas program attire. At first WH told me (through the kitchen window...he wouldn't even come in) that he would just meet us there and for me to save him a seat. I objected, telling him that I had promised DS11 that we would go together. WH relented and said he'd come back when it was time to leave, so he left for something like 15 minutes (what was the point again??). When he came back, he actually entered the house. DS11 asked if he would come see the attic. I went up, too, of course. He said it was "cozy" and I asked him to sit down and check out the new TV. I hope he was feeling like he was missing out on something...we had planned to re-do that attic for years, but it was one of those things that got done bit by bit as we had the money. Finishing it would have been a big deal for us together...we always talked about a trip to Ikea to outfit it. It ended up being a big deal to me alone.

Before we walked out the door, I grabbed the container of his favorite cookies. So off we all went to the Christmas program...this is the first time we have all sat in a vehicle together since July 9. The boys and I carried on an animated conversation in the car. I sat next to WH in the auditorium, and while we waited (we were about a half hour early so DS11 could warm up) we chatted (and a couple of times whispered!) about Christmas presents and I told a couple of funny stories about the kids. He had brought along a boating magazine and I kind of looked over his shoulder at the pictures and we commented on various boats, etc., and I played a game with DS8. (WH barely acknowledged DS8, and I think even DS8 picked up on that). WH and I were, however, very friendly and cordial...no fireworks either way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

One of the songs performed was Ode to Joy, which coincidentally was the recessional at our wedding. I gave WH a nudge and and gave him a "remember this?" look, and he smiled...but not really, more a grimace, like, "oh, yeah." I kept leaning in close to get a better view of the stage. About halfway through the concert, right in the middle of a song, I leaned over and said, "I'm not wearing any panties." He said, "What, I didn't hear you?" so I whispered it again, and he got this big laughing smile and squished his eyes closed. So I ended up feeling like he kind of just laughed at me.

No matter...stick to the plan, LilSis. When the concert was over and time to leave, I dropped my program and had to bend down to pick it up as we filed out of the row. It's chilly doing that when wearing low cut jeans, I tell you, but I was hoping a glimpse of skin (my BACK, people!!) would impress WH, who was right behind me. It was very crowded and I managed to bump into WH a few times as we bunched up with all the other parents waiting for our accomplished musicians. Once DS11 found us and we appropriately showered him with adoring praise for his prowess on the clarinet, DS11 asked if WH would go out for hot chocolate with us. WH declined, claiming he was very tired and had a long day of training tomorrow (it was 8:30). DS11 begged a little longer, and I let that go on for a bit, then felt badly enough to jump in and tell DS11 that I'd make us some hot chocolate at home, which seemed to satisfy him.

When we pulled up in the driveway, we all piled out, and WH made a show of hugging each boy. Before he could hop back in, I went toward him--enough so he could see the hug coming--and he reached out and put his arm around me. I planted a kiss on his neck (I'm 5'1" and he's 6'3" so that's about where I could reach, especially while he's turning away trying to escape it). And I said, "Careful love you bye," which was our nightly ritual goodbye when he worked nights. He said thanks, and before I went in the house, I told him that it meant a lot to the boys that we went together and thanked him for that, then said bye with a big smile and wave. (I could have done better here for sure)

I can Monday morning quarterback this until the cows come home, but it won't change anything and I'm not going to waste anymore emotional energy on it right now. I did what I needed to do, and I got a clean house in the process. My boys were delighted that we did that together and they got to see their mom and dad getting along instead of fighting. I still feel so bad for DS8...WH really kind of ignores him. DS8 is in a group for "families in change" (how's that for a euphemism) at school, and the other day he had to draw a picture for each parent and put each one in an envelope. My envelope said, "To Mom from DS8." WH's said, "To Dad from DS8, you'r son." (punctuation his) There was a little star over the word son.

So I'm worrying about DS8, but also trying to interpret WH's actions and behavior tonight. Again, I feel like he's just Mr. Friendly...that there's no real emotion there. Is it possible that he's just completely committed to this new path in life, no question about it, and that I'm just some desperate STBX?

I know AmIok warned me about not expecting anything, and I told myself that all day. I didn't expect him to come panting after me (not that I would have been disappointed with that, and I wouldn't be honest if I didn't say a teeny part of me hoped). But somehow, the fact that there is no emotional extreme from him leads me to assume that he's perfectly comfortable with his decision to leave us; leave me. That it is a decision he has made, no longer struggles with, and is content with.

I know what mimi says about assumptions, but sometimes they are right, aren't they? I'd feel less "down" if he acted pissy or angry...then I'd know I actually affected him. I feel like I don't affect him at all.

Any thoughts, comments, feedback? And thanks, everyone, for your support today getting me in the right frame of mind. Time will tell...but I do think I could do it again. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, and now that I've done it once, I can only improve. The difficulty will be having the opportunity to do so...

LilSis

Ah, the garden is tilled, the seeds are planted...........

Good Job!!!! Men are a bit slow, but he will be thinking about things - his family, your new attic room, no panties.

You outdid yourself. Christmas is a time when people want to go "home".

Thanks, believer. The affirmation really helps.

I think he also HAS to be thinking of his boys, and how he has to say good-bye to them all the time, and is so out of touch with their lives. I think that was very apparent tonight...I'm involved at school and know what day DS8 has music/gym/library, how many hours of practice DS11 has credit for, when their respective Christmas parties are and what they will be eating at their parties (because I'm sending cookies to both), when the book report is due, who their friends are/where they live/what their parents are like.

That was actually one of the knife in the heart moments tonight...on WH's other side was a little girl about 4-y-o. She was swaying to the music and enjoying herself, and I saw WH smile at her. I immediately thought that with OW, he'll have a daughter--the little girl we never had. Then I looked on my other side at DS8 (same age as OW's daughter), and my heart just about cracked.

Ugh. Adultery is so wicked and cruel.

Hang in there. You are doing just fine. My WH didn't show any remorse for quite awhile. But he was noticing things.

You did the perfect combination - home and family, a bit of naughtiness, rememberances of the past, accomplished dreams. The OW doesn't stand a chance.

I hope you will talk to your sons, and tell them that while there are some problems right now, mom has a plan.

Now that Christmas is here, you might tell them that the thing you want most in the world is a handmade Christmas card from them. I raised my boys alone for the first 10 years, and that is what I always requested. The funny thing is, they continued making me a Christmas card up to this day, and they are 21 and 25. I have kept each and every card.

GREAT job!!

He can't react in front of you .... can't let you know you are getting to him. Mine now tells me how often he thought that he wanted to touch or say or do something, but couldn't even admit that to himself because that would kill the excuses he'd made for himself about why his A was ok.

But you can guarnatee that all night long he'll be thinking about you not wearing any panties.

"Why in the he11 would she say something like that to me????"
"Was that an invitation .....?"
"Wonder if it was true ... I didn't see any when she bent over that one time...."

No way OW can compete when she's complaining about the time he DIDN'T spend with her tonight ... and all he can think about is your panties....

Great job, girl.


Was your WH always distant with your DS8?

-AmI.

I woke up at 4:40 in the morning and Fear and Doubt came to pay a visit there in the dark, but I successfully told them to get lost. I decided to come down and post for a little boost. (Cup of coffee doesn't hurt, either)

Thanks, AmI. I need to remember it is a marathon. I was reading Neak's thread about the seemingly ridiculous things she would do/say and her WH would just blow her off. Once I get better at this and do it a few times, I suppose it will get easier...??? My armour will get stronger?? I suppose this is where it plays to my advantage that he doesn't live here. I can do a full frontal (hmmmm...) assault, then retreat to lick my wounds and refortify for the next battle against the evil forces of A.

Do you girls totally mind walking me through this, one day at a time? I could really use your invaluable advice, help and support. You are all so wise, and I'm new enough to this that I second guess myself.

So today's question would be, what now? I thought about calling his cell later and leaving a VM, something like:
"Hi, it's me. I just wanted to call and thank you again for the nice evening. It was really nice it was to be together as a family...like the way it should be. It really meant so much to the kids...and to me, too. And just so you know, I wasn't kidding about what I whispered to you during the concert. Careful-love you-bye." Click.

(FYI the careful-love you-bye was our ritual good bye)

My first thought was to just be dark today...but because of the compressed timeline of my Plan A, I don't know if I should be a tad more aggressive. A "thank you" call seems appropriate, doncha think? I could be dark tomorrow...

Feedback, please! And thanks...AGAIN.

(((((hugs all around)))

LS

I love the idea, especially cuz it was a good night together, and I especially love the 'ritual goodbye'. These are the things that will call his heart back home when the glamour of the affair begins to fade and the evil beast begins to show true colors.

I'm no expert at Plan A, I did mine on instinct, not knowing about MB at the time, in fact I began my Plan A before I even knew about the affair, I just knew his heart was lost to me and I needed it back; but it worked like the charm it is.
Hugs!

AmI:
Sorry, forgot to respond to your last question about DS8. WH has never been quite as close to DS8 as he was to DS11. I suspect he began to fall into a depression when DS8 was about 2. I believe this depression precipitated all of this...mimi you are absolutely right on in your other thread!! That was about the time my dad died, and I was very preoccupied and needy, and not meeting his ENs. At the same time, he was becoming VERY disallusioned with his job. A perfect storm.

With DS11, WH was a very hands-on parent from the very first, because I was working and we juggled child care to avoid having to put him in daycare. With DS8, I quit my job and stayed home for a year. When I went back part-time, we did put them in day care.

Then keep in mind, too, that for the past almost three years now, WH has been in the A, emotionally disconnecting from the family. So that would be since DS8 was 5. Since d-day, WH has seemed much more attentive to DS11...maybe because he knows that DS11 knows the truth about his A?

Yuck. It's all so ugly. How can a dad watch his kids suffer, and not do anything to stop it? It's incomprehensible to me.

LS

"Yuck. It's all so ugly. How can a dad watch his kids suffer, and not do anything to stop it? It's incomprehensible to me."

Ever know a drug addict? These WS's act exactly like crackheads. Try not to dwell on it. It's this kind of thing that can make the BS fall out of love with the WS - I think it is more damaging the the marriage than the actual affair.

Sis:

I think your night was just about PERFECT...

Keep in mind that what you are doing is CREATING UNFORGETTABLE MEMORIES of YOU..so when he is in the DARKNESS of PLAN B..he will think of YOU...

You are profitting from what I learned..what we other BSes learned..We did not have a clue that this was occurring during Plan A because our WSes gave the impression that they were not affected by us..mine did..but later, as others have said, he reported how PLAN A was having its effect...



THIS WAS A MAJOR VICTORY FOR YOU!!! There was no way that he planned to come into the house. This was at your insistence and he relented. He had to leave to try to explain this to the OW...I bet she LBed big time when he got back.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Work is calling..BACK LATER...

He couldn't help but picture this in his mind...

He LOVED that you told him this...

Don't deny the significance of his LAUGHING SMILE....

You BRITTANY SPEARS WANNABE, YOU.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



I LOVED the GOODBYE RITUAL..I LOVED THAT YOU KISSED HIM..Today though I suggest that you fix this up a bit and stress how it was important to YOU..at this point, the key is to make claims on him as your HUSBAND..not as the FATHER OF YOUR CHILDREN..he will remain the FATHER OF YOUR CHILDREN whether you are married to him or not...an important distinction in this BATTLE....i know, YUCK....



NO WAY..Stop it..The path is BACK HOME..not to THIS NEW PATH IN LIFE...YUCK!!!



Remember that he is a WS..hooked on OW CRACK..he is not capable of being this LOGICAL AND RATIONAL...He is living from minute to minute, trying to get his next FIX...unfortunately, he is only getting his EMOTIONAL HIGH from her right now..so you see APATHY..that's better than the ANGER AND RESENTMENT that a lot of us got in response to PLAN A....



NOPE.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Did you know that you were speaking from Ephesians? As you can tell, reading my Bible got me through this...



You asked about this phone call:




I say...Yes, call him today..a Thank-You is certainly warranted..he was not at all planning to come into the house..and RT probably LBed about this...leave out the part about the family and kids..and even the part of about the underwear..tell him how much it meant to YOU..how GOOD he looked..key is ADMIRATION of HIM by YOU..."Looking forward to seeing you again soon..and finally, the CAREFUL, ILY...

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE DARK..

Now is the FULL FRONTAL ATTACK..WITH ARMOR...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

be certain to talk to the boys' teachers as well as the school principal (when school resumes) ... be certain to say IN WRITING something like:

"We are having a family crisis. Their father is living elsewhere instead of home with the family. I am asking you to keep an eye open for any problems with my sons. They are missing their Dad and feel another child is getting the love and attention that is rightfully theirs. Call me at (your cell #) anytime you think there is something going on. You can reach their father at #."

don't mention "adultery" or "affair" ... just say FAMILY CRISIS

[color:"red"] YOU are doing an excellent Plan A+ ... do not think otherwise.... we've seen some very chitty plan A s recently ... and yours RAWKS !!!! [/color]

one of the Plan A tools is to quiet your "taker" ... and this is HARD and it builds tension and eventual resentment (a marriage recovery killer)

soooooooooooo

as you quiet your "taker" ... you need to treat yourself and pamper yourself

here is a Plan A move that also pampers YOU ....

call your WH
ask him to come over to "babysit the boys" ... you have some last minute HOLIDAY errands to do and you cannot take them ... get him to say "yes"

then, when WH shows up ... you go out looking SMASHING ... more like you are going on a date than shopping ...

you smile
bat your lashes
ooze gratitude and admiration
and stay in the house with WH only a few minutes befor you must dash out ... and be evasive where you are going

if he comments on how you are overdressed for a shopping trip ... giggle and place your fingertip against your nose and say ... "Silly me."

then slip away for 2 hours & go see a movie or meet a friend for coffee & dessert ... it does not matter

with your cell phone turned off

and before you leave... place a store bought bunch of roses in a vase NEXT to your BED ... he will likely spy in your room

Your Plan A is creating great emotional conflict in your husband ... NOT in the WH, but in your H. (big difference)

H is feeling that he has hurt the most wonderful wife of his ... WH only wants to snort Mrs Ratturd .... but the soul of H is hurting over hurting YOU .... and causing you to get tossed in the pokey for a nite !!!! Here YOU are, still being NICE to him AFTER he caused THAT!!! He's confused and conflicted as hayul.

GOOD JOB!!!!!!

Have you bought your H a Christmas present? ... just wondering.....

and next time you see WH ... slip some of your panties in his coat pocket without him knowing ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Pep

panties in his pocket
he will NOT be 100% sure who put them there

and
he might even thank Mrs Ratturd for doing it ...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

and she will be soooooooo pizza'd off that she does NOT have "the power" she thinks she has

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

oh... and be 100% CERTAIN NO ONE can get to your 'puter and read your MB plan .... this is a MUST!

Pep