All during my Plan A my then WH would spend each ENTIRE WEEKEND with the OW....and saw her for hours daily...

Soooo, yes, unfortunately, you have a long road ahead of you...

But look at my H and I today...

Know and expect that there is lots of contact between the infidels during Plan A...This is what this WAR, unfortunately, is all about...

Ark has a post about this somewhere... Anybody?

Wonder why they GOT LOST from you????

Why aren't they PROUD of their relationship?

Because it is WRONG..they are forced to RUN and HIDE....

CONTINUE AS PLANNED....YOU ARE THE LIGHT...THEY LIVE IN THE DARKNESS OF EVIL...

In order to win this particular battle that occurred tonight, you have to get right back up on your horse and forge ahead with even more conviction.

NOTHING NEW OR SURPRISING...

Damn straight, Mimi. They have to slither away in shame where no one sees them. Sleazy shamefully slithering away.

How would you have handled/coordinated it had you not seen them today?

Jo

Why isn't he picking them up..then coming into the house?

This is very good news, LilSis. Now he can no longer think to himself that he is not hurting you. I think he still has a conscience, a sense of right and wrong. At some level he knows that this was sleazy behavior.

WH and I ended up divorced. But we had times of talking intimately. He lost his self respect, and realized what he was doing was wrong. I made a lot of mistakes. It is essential to remain calm and pleasant. My WH lost hope long before the divorce that I would ever take him back. He chose the easy way out by staying with the skank.

That is my situation EXACTLY. My WH had those exact same responsibilities, and he complained (during A) that he felt "like a fixture." Huh? I never got that, since I felt like I was doing 80% of the pulling around the house...like he had dropped off the radar. Now that I've been "schooled," I see that I was not meeting his EN for admiration or affection. Like someone said earlier, my response would be something like, "FINALLY! It's about time that got done!" not an "Oh, my hero! I've been wishing for that to get done and YOU made my wish come true! You are wonderful, talented..." After all (old LilSis would say) when was the last time I got patted on the back for washing 16 pairs of dirty underwear or cleaning vomit out of the carpet? Truth is, we BOTH sucked at the admiration--and affection--thing.

Also, about my weight. I am doing okay...the size zeros are getting snug. I have not been weighing myself obsessively lately. I did step on the scale yesterday and was surprised that I still hadn't cracked the 100 lb. mark. I thought for sure with the holidays...even though it's all junk.

DS11 has noticed, and I know he was worried, but not so much anymore. For one, I think they've gotten used to seeing me skinny, and second, they do see me eat now...whereas nearly all summer all I could choke down was Carnation Instant Breakfast...2x per day. That was it. In addition, my mood and affect are SO much better. I think seeing me waste away physically AND emotionally was very scary to DS11 especially. Now that my emotional state has stabilized, the weight thing is no longer an issue for him. As a matter of fact, DS11 said something tonight to the effect that he admires my confidence; that he believes in me.

Thanks, nab. I appreciate you bringing that up and reminding me. And BTW...I went to MSU so the whole Michigan/Ohio State thing doesn't do anything for me. I think I was at the mall during the big game... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Okay. I'll do that. He'll get a phone call in the morning, "Honey, could you please come by at 9:30 to pick up the kids? See you then. Thanks!"

Thanks, B. I do believe that my H does have a sense of right and wrong. Whether or not he has the will and ability to pull himself away from the crack, away from his WH-ishness, and into the light is the question. But I will remain calm and pleasant...that is the light. I have also made TONS of mistakes. I could NEVER have done this five...even two months ago. I just wasn't Plan A material: I was too devastated, too demoralized. I was a mess.

Could I ask you a question? Do you believe that your XH lost hope that you would ever take him back BEFORE or AFTER you gave up hope that your true H would come back? So I guess I'm asking...who ultimately gave up on the M first? And second...(I hope I'm not re-hashing painful memories here) what, if anything, would you do differently, and/or what do you think might have changed the outcome?

If it's too painful, please don't respond. But your comments sparked my interest. I have thought many times that WH would stay with RT because doing so would allow him to continue to hide behind his rationalizations and justifications, and never have to admit he was wrong, never have to face the pain he has caused SO many people. If he sticks it out with RT, then he was right all along and everyone can just kiss his ***.

Thanks, believer.
LS

I found those ark posts for you...

The Art of War ones??

VM to WH:
"Hi Honey, it's me. Hope you have having a good morning. Wondered if you could please come by at 9:30 to pick up the boys? See you then! Thanks!" If he doesn't show, I'll just drop the boys off at ILs.

Feeling better this AM about seeing them together. Actually, I was able to put it into perspective surprisingly quickly last night...thanks in large part to all of your comments here. Just keep chipping away....I have lots of support, lots of people praying for me, and God is on my side.

How can I lose?

It's amazing how Confidence can keep Fear at bay. That's the inner battle that I fight...along with the outter battle to reach my H who is lost in the dark.

LS

Good Morning:

"WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY MAKES" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bumped up "The Art of War" for you....

Sis, you sound much better.

I think you are doing an awesome job.

Just wanted to send you a cyber hug and say keep it up (((Sis)))

Li'l Sis,

Don't have anything to add to be of help to you, as my Plan A and Plan B belong in the MarriageBuilder's Hall of Shame...BUT, just wanted you to know I am following your sitch and supporting you behind the screen...

Brit's Brat

Li'l Sis,

Good to see you are aware of the weight thing. I think boys especially are very protective of their moms and are more aware than we realize. Especially if it is the dad that is the wacked out WS, they need to be assured that at least one parent is ok.

My older two sons thought I was mad at them for not protecting me from WH/OW. This came out about 6 mo. after d-day 2. I really don't know where that came from, but again I think it is a son/mom thing. I just told them that it wasn't their job to protect me from the A, it was WH's and I in no way held them responsible. But it did touch me that they wanted to protect me, I hope through all of this they are seeing me as an example how to behave, that's all I can do.

Good luck today, I never saw my WH with OW, that must be hard. Like you said though, with all the support on MB, you will be ok!

Thanks for all the support, everyone! You have no idea how much it means to me...

Just returned from IC, and it was a great session. I "confessed" to my therapist that I am hoping to recover my marriage by being my "best self" and giving love without expectation. My therapist said that was probably not all together honest...that perhaps a better way of saying it would be love without possession. He was very supportive of my new point of view, how I have grown and changed and have such a new perspective on life. I was nervous about telling him...afraid that he would think I was setting myself up for failure. Not so...he said I was setting myself up for success...no matter what the outcome of the marriage.

We also talked about Change. I know that I would not be the person I am now if I hadn't gone through all of this ugliness and pain. During the darkest days, I would get so angry when people would say that God had a plan. I was feeling so forsaken; like He was not there at all and wasn't answering any of my prayers. But now, having gained six months (as of today....ugh) of perspective, I can see that He did have a plan. Going through all of this, experiencing this, was a way for me to let go of all those old fears of needing to earn love, needing to be perfect. My therapist pointed out that if that's how I defined love, then I really was incapable of loving in return...that I would feel others would need to earn my love as well. How true, how true.

Now I feel free...free to love without possession, and free to be loved without sacrifice. I know this isn't a permanent state...I will slide back and forth from time to time...but at least I know the Truth. At least I've experienced this. If Fear gains a foothold, I know that there is a different way to experience life and I can search for that again.

On a more practical note...WH never showed up to pick up the boys, so I ran them over to FIL. I told FIL that I had left a message for WH and it was not returned. FIL said WH had gone out for breakfast (at the cafe where OW works of course). I said I wasn't surprised, but it does make it difficult for me when he doesn't answer his cell or return VMs. I have things to do.

FIL was upset...he said his expectation is that WH is to spend time with his boys at every opportunity. I calmly told FIL that I agreed, but yesterday WH was too busy getting his fix that he couldn't take the time...and described my conversation with WH yesterday, when he pretty much blew off spending time with the boys and instructed me to call BIL to set up a visit with the cousins. I reiterated the crack thing...that for WH getting his fix takes precedence over everything, so we should not be surprised by his behavior. I also told FIL that I saw WH and OW together last night. FIL was visibly angered by this revelation--and this is a man who shows very, very little emotion.

I also told FIL that I was not shocked to see them together...that I know this goes on, and it doesn't change what I need to do. FIL said he appreciated that, and he commented about how he sees WH "not at peace." (I should hope not, but I still wish that FIL would be a bit more outwardly forceful about disavowing, and not enabling WH/OW's "relationship")

Before I left, I restated my offer to have the whole family over for a meal at some point today or tomorrow and FIL said he would encourage that with BIL/SIL. Unfortunately, one of the cousins sounds like he visited Neak's house...both ends...so if they're all contaminated with the bug it might not be a great idea.

We'll see. Time will tell. I am at peace (for the moment). I do hope that WH has had to experience some consequences for not being more responsible about the boys and essentially putting other things first. Certainly FIL will share his feelings, but I hope that WH also feels some guilt or shame that he wasn't there and recognizes at some level that he was too busy hanging out with OW to answer his cell or check his voice mail. The reality is, however, that he will probably blame me for not making arrangements yesterday for him to pick up the boys.

But I'm okay. I am still where I was earlier: look at everything that is on my side. How can I lose? No matter the outcome, I am a better person. I WANT to be this person.

I WOULD NOT BE HERE WITHOUT ALL OF YOU. YOU HAVE NO IDEA....

LilSis
(but not so Lil anymore...either physically or metaphorically)

Good job with FIL. You are explaining things just right. My ex hid his affair so well that the inlaws didn't believe me.

So it is wonderful that you can help yours understand the mind of a junkie.

Let's see - my old mistakes - this will be quick.

I wanted to show WH that I could be fine on my own, and did too good a job of it. One time he made the comment that it seemed I was doing better without him.

OW was determined too, and drove by my house constantly taunting me. I rose to the bait and blew up at her several times, and told WH to ask his sl*t to leave me alone. Of course, she denied it, and I looked like the crazy one. It would have been much better to ignore that fact that she existed at all.

I should have seen an attorney to protect myself financially. WH and OW had a ton of money to blow, so the first few years of the affair were nothing but fun.

Don't count on this!! This morning I was just thinking how your WH was sooo different than others in wanting to spend time with his boys. Now, he's more closely following the SCRIPT...



EXACTLY..unfortunately...



Yes, this is good. He won't like disappointing his father. However, but don't count on him feeling much GUILT and SHAME at this point. That comes AFTER WITHDRAWAL. All he cares about is getting his next fix..which he uses to soothe any emotional pain. I know, YUCK...but I think it's helpful for you to acknowledge what you are dealing with here. ACCEPTING REALITY is a huge key to winning this battle. You have to come to a full understanding of your foe.

That being said, this MAY be an OUTGROWTH of your PLAN A.

He MAY BE TRYING TO MAKE IT WORK WITH HER, TRYING TO BINGE OFF OF HER TO CONTINUE TO GET HIS HIGH, recognizing now that he also RESPONDS to you...this makes him FEARFUL of LOSING HER....

This happened a couple of times in my situation. It seemed that the more responsive my WH was to me..at one point, he even got CLOSER to her....The week before I latest REAL RECOVERY he took her on a week-long trip to the beach....

Sooo, it may SEEM BAD when it's not. That's why I say all the time DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS. Those WSes DON'T MAKE ANY LOGICAL SENSE TO US SANE HUMAN BEINGS. A common phrase around here is "HE'S BEEN CAPTURED BY AN ALIEN".....

The key is for you to STAY ON COURSE with YOUR PLAN regardless of what HE IS DOING..

You want to REGISTER MEMORIES in his brain for PLAN B...You want him to BELIEVE in your change..You want him to BELIEVE that there can be a FUTURE with you...Right now, he's in a PIG STY..or shall we say IN THE SEWER... with a RAT TURD.....

Just quickly jumping in to say:

Its a very common theme the WS takes the OP on a "vacation" trip before they dump them.

I have seen that same scenario on these boards too many times to count.

All I can think is they (WS) feel so much guilt for dumping them (OP) they feel a nice trip will ease the curb kicking.

Thanks, believer. Clearly I've done a bang-up job of appearing to be the crazy one...but I'm done with that, so there's nowhere to go but up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks to all the advice here, I am also working on allowing WH to be more engaged, more significant in my life. Again, up until recently, I was doing all the grunt work myself...just to prove to him that I can do it on my own, dammit! Not good. (sound familiar?) This one is harder because he's not living here. But it goes further than that...I also need him to be a father to my children, my friend, my lover, my partner in maintaining a house. I need him as the guy whom I LOVE, who I want to be with, who I want to share my life with. To make my life more fulfilled, because I can't be fulfilled if I am unable to carry out the promises I made when we got married. If we give up on those promises, both of us have really lost something precious that we can never regain...no matter what happens.

Does that make sense?