And I agree with Neak that the primary reason that he did not come was the ADDICTION.

However, I will share that I also learned that there was often valuable information about my WH to be obtained from SOME of his RATIONALIZATIONS. He would often share stuff that really had bothered him about our marriage but he had failed to share the stuff with me..using the A as his way out of dealing with the issues rather than addressing them.

Agree very much with Mimi on this! LilSis, I think you almost set yourself up for failure with this idea. Since he doesn't even LIKE big family gatherings, he was unlikely to come. My H is alot like Mimi's, he likes small, cozy, QUIET, SERENE surroundings. That is what attracts him.

This is a good learning experience and certainly not a loss!

"The food was great, the company was nice, the kids all had a blast and I just tucked in five cousins for an attic sleepover....and it's still ten minutes to midnight."

Excellent, excellent. You done good again.

What you are forgetting is that you have tilled the soil, planted the seeds, and are now in the process of watering and nurturing the garden. Stop being disappointed that vegetables and flowers haven't popped up yet.

Last night I was looking through a pile of letters that WH sent me. Remember, he was much farther gone than your WH. We barely talked 4 times a year. At the time, I threw them all in a box, and barely read them, because I was tired of the lies. But it is obvious that my husband was thinking about our life, and missing things. He just never showed it.

"My H is alot like Mimi's, he likes small, cozy, QUIET, SERENE surroundings. That is what attracts him."

Yep. I provide this for him now and he often says..as he looks around our family room..."This is all I ever wanted"...

So sad he had to make that pit stop at the HO's GHETTO VERSION of SANCTUARY...

During PLAN B, though, the SANCTUARY ASPECT of it seems to have vanished..so now it is called "BS"....

I still would love to see what it looks like in there..I can't imagine it EVER being such a "SANCTUARY".... but I learned to ACCEPT that it was...

Sorry for the bit of a TJ....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, all. You make a very valid point...and I started to hit on it myself during the conversation with MIL last night. I was comapring WH's family gatherings (which he always attended but didn't necessarily enjoy) with MY family gatherings (which he always enjoyed very much). Here's my theory:
WH's two brothers are both doctors, and both older.
WH was always smart enough to follow in his brother's footsteps, but was never as ambitious. He sort of fell into being a cop.
When WH's oldest brother (BIL#1) comes to town, the world suddenly revolves around him...he's Mr. Successful, Mr. Nicey-Nice, Mr. Generous.

I suspect that WH is conflicted about BIL#1...he admires him, loves him, asks him for advice, shares interests with him...but I think WH resents all the A's (admiration, attention, affection) that are showered on his brother. TOTALLY would explain the aggravation he expresses at those family gatherings, and why he loves MY family gatherings, when he is the center of attention and everyone dotes on him.

I think I've always gotten this dynamic at some level, but the ENs thing provides a context that I previously lacked, and allows me a way to UNDERSTAND his behavior NOT judge it (so I'm following you, mimi). I do hope for his sake that he's able to work through this issue so that he can have a real and honest relationship with his family...and more important accept himself for who he is. Either way, *I* recognize the dynamic, so I no longer need to fight it or question it.

So...I don't necessarily think it's the "big family gatherings" that he objects to; it's how he's treated, how he "rates" at the gatherings that determines his response. I think he doesn't like it when he's not the alpha male. It was probably a combination of factors that kept him away...lack of AAA at his family gatherings, my presence, disapproval by ILs, and of course, RT's objections.

HOPEFULLY I did a little EN feeding when I called him during the evening to validate that he was missed and wanted...at least by me. I also left a VM today...hope you are having a good day off; didn't know if you were planning on seeing the boys; they are still playing with cousins; BIL/SIL have been here a while visiting; they got a hotel room with a pool so they will be taking the kids swimming later; hope you get to spend some time with your brother, I know that means a lot to you; maybe you should give him a call and see if you can work something out; ILY.

He loves to spend time with his brother one-on-one, so my intent was to remind him of how well I know him...shows that I care and want what he wants, no expectations for me. My tone was quiet and compassionate, not breezy. I am concerned about H (not WH), because he would NEVER miss a chance to be with his brother when he was in town. This time, they spent some time together yesterday afternoon with all the kids and FIL, but no "adult" time.

I'd ABSOLUTELY love to have alone time w/WH...but that's going to be very hard. I'm counting on lousygolfer's suggestion about having him come put the kids to bed as one opportunity. Otherwise, I don't know how I'm going to swing it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I think I will go get a card, though, write a nice note, put a picture in, and leave it for him. I've got to do SOMETHING. I'm going to start Operation Roses this week, too.

mimi: this might be TMI, but your quote about "this is all I ever wanted" brought back a memory that I've held on to for the past six months. At our one visit to MC, the day after d-day, she told us to take a trip and get away, to reconnect, and talk, talk, talk. Several days later, we drove up to a town on the lakeshore and checked into our hotel room. Within minutes we were starting SF (first time since d-day...at this point we were working on our marriage). About five minutes into it, he looked at me and said, "This is all I ever wanted." Makes me feel so, so sad now, to think about it. If only I had known what to do then....

Okay, now I'm crying again.

Don't know if it's relevant, but BIL and SIL just came to pick up all the kids to go swimming, and SIL said that WH had called and is going to go swimming with them.

Maybe my phone call prompted something...maybe not. Either way, I'm glad for the boys. They will be elated.

After swimming, pizza and swimming again, the boys and cousins will be back for another attic sleepover. But I have a few hours of peace. I'm going to run over to the card shop and spend time choosing some to have in my stash.

(((((((((((((LilSis))))))))))))))

I feel extremely positive about your situation. See your husband is making a few sacrifices to continue his affair. Your attic was finished, the kids got to have a sleepover with HIS relatives kids, he missed the family gathering, he may miss one on one time with his brother, his parents are disappointed, and on and on.

Now the stakes have been raised. Miss OW needs to be "worth" all of the sacrifices he has made, and that is an impossible role for her. Remember, at some level, she is thinking of what she has given up too. That is a real affair killer, and is why very few affairs last.

Without going into detail about the family of origin issues with my H, I've come to realize that my H is INSECURE. I just now came to a full realization of this, Sis..because he has hidden it so well..

And therefore, the huge need for AFFECTION, ATTENTION, ADMIRATION, NURTURING, DOTING...

I've been reading about this lately...

Why has it not been apparent to US,SIS? Because our Hs chose so well..ADORING, LOVING, AFFECTIONATE WIVES...We should feel good about WHO WE ARE, Sis..and I hope you come to the place that I did..feel good about WHO YOU ARE and know that it will be a MAJOR LOSS for him if he loses you...

They fooled us into thinking that they were confident..because we helped LIFT THEM UP..then, you, like me, focused your attention on your sons which replayed the family of origin stuff..SO CLEAR TO ME NOW...

Sis..it seems so serendipitous that you signed on to MB when I was figuring all of this out. It's like I was meant to be here to help you. I don't want to freak you out if you don't believe how stuff is meant to be..

To me knowledge and understanding is power. I hope this doesn't make you focus too much on your regret about the past. I, like Believer, feel good about your situation.

The key is for your H to get the sense that you truly ADMIRE and ADORE him. He's got to get some of that fix from you that made him fall in love with you in the first place because you USED TO do so well in meeting these needs...As we said before, he wants YOU back again...not PHONY her....

ANY IDEAS PLAN A TEAM MEMBERS????

Thanks, B.

I know what you are saying, but it's still scary. Is heroin "worth" it to a junkie? By ANY measure, absolutely not. But how many heroin addicts are out there? How many alcoholics? How many smokers? To think that my behavior can have any influence on such a tightly held belief system is pretty gutsy. But what choice do I have? My H is in there, the man I love, the father of my children, the man I vowed to be with forever. I cannot stand back and watch him self-destruct without providing him with another alternative.

Doing something on faith requires a lot of faith. (that sounds stoopid, but it captures what I'm feeling)

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you of the above, I'm trying to remind myself.

I am going to go get some cards, and I will package up some of the soup from last night that was always one of WH's favorites, and leave it on the back porch of ILs house with a card.

We were posting at the same time again, I think...

"I am going to go get some cards, and I will package up some of the soup from last night that was always one of WH's favorites, and leave it on the back porch of ILs house with a card."

Wonderful...

If you really, really had to STRETCH what would you do? What do you think would give him the message that you want to send?

Something like the ATOMIC BOMB....

Sorry..it's me...I'm an overly high achiever...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

mimi:
Insecurity is HUGE...say I, with 20/20 hindsight. Your description FITS perfectly...I was PERFECT for him until other "things" (kids, new job, new house, dad's cancer) began to tap into the ADMIRATION, ATTENTION, AFFECTION, ADORATION that I previously had shown exclusively to my H. As you said, he APPEARED so confident that I didn't even know that he so desperately wanted those things from me. I had NO IDEA what he wanted from me, except that I be a good wife, maybe? (wrong) I suspect that HE didn't consciously know what he wanted from me either, either, and that's why he could NEVER articulate what was "wrong."

I almost went back to edit my earlier post to say that WH has an inferiority complex related to his brothers. Totally insecure, and totally overcompensates by becoming a cop...has superficial relationships with his brothers...yeah, yeah...all the family history stuff that could fill a book.

Serendipity doesn't freak me out at all. At my therapist's yesterday, I came in and started talking about how this experience has transformed me, and he pulled out a book he had JUST been reading before I walked in, and read a passage that stated my feelings EXACTLY. Seeing WH and OW together the other night...a test? a reminder? I needed that, and I passed. And I haven't even told you all about my three "lighthouse" experiences in a week's time...one in church!

Six months ago, I would not have believed "the hand of God" stuff. Now, I see how this whole experience has moved through me and realize that He has been with me the whole time, pointing me in little ways, guiding me to safe places, bringing caring, wonderful, supportive people into my path. Even when I thought He was gone. I think of you all here as ANGELS. I don't even know you, and I can't see you, but you help me everyday, more than my own family.

I am in total agreement with the idea that knowlege and understanding is power. When I KNOW what is true and UNDERSTAND reality, I no longer need to fight it, or control it, or attempt to untie it. It just is what it is. The energy that HAD been spent fighting and controlling the uncontrolable can now be used for other, more productive pursuits...first and foremost...how to change my behavior and attitudes to conform to the reality that IS, while not compromising the person I AM NOW.

I think soup, a bottle of his favorite beer, some bread and a card would do for tonight. Long note, or something short and sweet? Do I include a rose? or should that wait for later?

I'm emotionally a little tapped out, so walking me through this would be great.

PS...TEAM MEMBERS work at Wal-Mart. You all are SOLDIERS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was writing/thinking/processing and just read you "stretching" post.

To stretch it...I would wrap up the nightie that I bought the other day and include a note about how he may not want this now...but he will. And I cannot wait for that day.

...along with the soup. (something for now, something for later)

LilSis:

It's amazing what starts to happen when you start looking at the world thru the EN filter.

And it still disappoints me that I did not find it until 16 months ago. What a difference it would have made to have found it 7 years ago.

So lets start with this:

she told us to take a trip and get away, to reconnect, and talk, talk, talk. Several days later, we drove up to a town on the lakeshore and checked into our hotel room. Within minutes we were starting SF (first time since d-day...at this point we were working on our marriage). About five minutes into it, he looked at me and said, "This is all I ever wanted."

What did he want? He wanted you. No kids, no responsibility, no duty reports, no garbage cans. And your not thinking about the baking cookies or the latest art project. This will make you puke, but it is the A fantasy. When he is with OW, he gets his fantasy. So, give him yourself, like you have been coached around here, so that the fantasy of you can take over....

And make sure you disrupt his fantasy with OW. Never, and I mean, NEVER make his arrangements for the kids so he can get OW fix. Put this serious boundary in place. You arranged with BIL/SIL on one day, and the next with FIL so that he could be with OW and avoid his responsibilities. I am not suggesting that you put the children in combative situations between you and WH. I just mean that if he is supposed to be there at 6 for the kids, then hold him to it. Your MC/IC meeting was a good case in point. You had to go, and you dropped kids at FIL. FIL is annoyed at WH. So maybe this is the new drill. WH doesn't do his responsibility, that he agreed to, and he wants OW time, he needs to pick up kids at disgruntled FIL's house. And I think you where perfect in your dispassionate description of the sitch to your FIL.

And the cracks are starting to appear. The call to you at 10:30, and the call to "Momma". Momma didn't react as well as hoped, (In the fact that she didn't let him open up to her, her disapproval of WH sitch is very good!) But you can coach her for next time.

Another thought: What day does OW have her kids? Make sure WH has your kids on the days she ain't got hers>>> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for cleaning the car? I clean my BS car. And it can get downright messy. (Hairy white dog and all!) But I never would think that I got enough thanks for doing it. My OW would tell me how she used to clean her H's work truck! I so envyed that. My W would never clean my car.... But, if its a chance to build Love Bank units, and meet EN's figure out how to get it done. Have him come over on the weekend to help you and the boys???

After the car is clean, take ride to Ice Cream Shop, Ok, Ok, you are in MI, (Been There, moved out in 82!, Go Blue!) Go get coffee. Drop Boys at Grandpas on the way.....? Play that CD you created of your Tunes....?

Remember, small tactical battles. "The Long March" in the words of MAO, to final victory.

LG

"I am in total agreement with the idea that knowlege and understanding is power. When I KNOW what is true and UNDERSTAND reality, I no longer need to fight it, or control it, or attempt to untie it. It just is what it is. The energy that HAD been spent fighting and controlling the uncontrolable can now be used for other, more productive pursuits...first and foremost...how to change my behavior and attitudes to conform to the reality that IS, while not compromising the person I AM NOW."

You go, girlfriend.

LMAO!!!

You're hilarious, Mimi!!!

Sis,

Your attitude is fabulous!

I just saw Rocky Balboa last night and there's a scene between Rocky and his sulky son that just kicks a$$...

He says, Life is tough... life will hit you hard, what matters is not how hard you get hit, but if you get up from those hits and move forward.

He said, if you look around for someone to blame for your problems, you'll never believe in yourself.

I believe in you,Sis, b/c YOU believe in you.

Life hit you hard, but you're not letting it keep you down.

You go, Girl!

~ Marsh

LOL - Reading all about LilSis' soup made we want to make some stew. It's ready now.

Do you give out your recipes, LilSis?

mimi

my H is like yours...very insecure

and i also gave him somuch attention, adoration and affection that it made him feel so good about himself that he fell in love with me

then when i got so depressed it stopped

that's why he went to OW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

i wish that i could get a "do over" from God

((((EAV))))

Buck up, eav! Shower some of that attention, adoration and affection on yourself! YOU are worth it! Eat some chocolate, take a bubble bath, read the Bible, learn to crochet (I did). Watch stupid, mindless movies while curled up on the couch with a warm blanket. Make tea. Call someone who you can cry to. Get on MB and post. Pet your cat til she purrs. Make a list of quick, easy things you can do (like those listed) and post it on your fridge. When you are feeling badly, do something on the list. If that doesn't work, do something else. Most of all, get the right meds. It took me three tries and five months.

God doesn't do "do overs," but as long as we are breathing, He gives us "now whats." Make a plan and work the plan. Focus your energy on that. I hope I don't sound harsh, because I know the vicious cycle of depression and how it drags you deeper and deeper into the pit. I had to hit rock bottom, and even then I was afraid the bottom would drop out. Sounds to me like you need to find some steady ground and regain your footing. For me, that just took time....ugh. I KNOW how cliche that sounds. I'll add you to my prayers, eav.

Update:
I went out on a limb and conducted an assault without advice and counsel from my MB Generals. I took my new "nightie," wrapped it up in perfume-scented tissue paper, put it in a gift bag with a slightly suggestive romantic card in which I wrote; "...this wasn't appropriate for Christmas Eve...you may not want it now, but you will...have a babysitter identified; you name the time and place and bring this bag...love always, me"

Put that gift bag in a bigger shopping bag with some bread, some soup, some caramel bars, and a Belgian ale that he likes. Taped another card to the outside of the bag. Inside the card I wrote something like: "really missed seeing you and being near you last night. I miss you in a thousand different ways that I never would have realized. love always, me" Glued in a picture of the two of us taken when just the two of us went on a little boating trip a couple of summers ago (I was very tan). On the envelope, I wrote, "Soup's on for WH!"

I left "the package" inside the back porch by the back door to ILs. WH and FIL's cars were both gone. I drove past the hotel where BIL is staying and BIL and FIL's cars were there...no WH. Oh well, maybe time for another fix...already? Jeez. Maybe WH has decided that FIL is leaving for AZ in a few days...so he can do what he wants already. Ugh.

That's about as ATOMIC BOMB as I can get without stripping naked, breaking into ILs house, and positioning myself seductively on the TWIN bed that WH has been sleeping on. Course then I'd get hauled off to the pokey again for B&E, having already broken several Girlfriend's Guide Rules: contacts in (blink, blink), no layers (brrr!), and no hood (gross).

We'll just let Operation Soup's On STEW a while <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ...then during the week, begin Operation Red Roses and Operation Lullaby (not the James Bond version...remember that? When [censored] Galore and her female pilots put everyone at Fort Knox to sleep?? I digress...). I'm talking about WH putting the kids to bed. Much less dramatic...

Anyway...Due to severe time constraints and intense pressure from the enemy, I made a judgement call and conducted Operation Soup's On with no backup. Hope it met with your approval. I await your verdict, MB Generals.

(jaunty salute)
LilSis