Okay. I left my calendar at the office. I will schedule something tomorrow. I wonder how quickly we could schedule something. Friday would be good...I don't go in to work.

Can you tell me more about what to expect? Will I spend the entire time re-telling the whole story? I think I am fearful of that (so much for my new-found bravery), re-telling the whole sordid tale again...to a stranger. The story seems so long and complicated. How can he really help me, and how can I be really open, with someone I've never met and just talk to on the phone?

I've never talked to the Harley's, but EVERYONE that has always says how easy it is. They specialize in INFIDELITY. There is not a whole lot you have to explain, like you would to a normal counselor.

I would write a synopsis to help you stay on track. Give the specifics - you are in Plan A, 2 kids, married X years, affair has been going on for over a year, OW's husband knows about it and has filed for divorce.

Family knows, and in-laws are supportive (GASP). You can mention any problems in marriage before the affair started.

IMO, Steve H. is a GENIUS at this. He will DIRECT you. He will ask you the questions that he feels are necessary. You will be absolutely surprised how easy it is to TALK to him.



Sis...We've been telling you that this is SCRIPTED. Although your story sounds and feels long and complicated to you, it sounds almost just like mine and most others here...There's nothing that new and different about your H's pattern...I even almost ended up in jail..I left before the cops came... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

What is different is your trying to do the PLAN A with having such limited contact with him. That is what I suggest that you specifically ask him about. Ask him the SPECIFIC QUESTIONS that you are interested in finding the answers to..IT IS LIKE COACHING..in fact, he calls it that. He will be DIRECTING you on how to best proceed with your PLAN.



Without Steve's help, I'm sure that my marriage would not have been recovered. But I also depended on my support team here but HE was the PRIMARY COACH, calling the PLAYS. I goofed BIG TIME when I tried to venture out there on my own.

Ever since the condom subject came up, I have been thinking about it on a back burner of my mind.

It was quite surprising to realize that something that would seem exciting to me, but in an ordinary way, would not only be perceived as un-exciting, but actually a LB. And yet I can see how it would be that way, since he had been fixed, and was used to a vast difference compared to what he is going to get for some time to come.

So my back burner has been thinking and thinking, is there any way the condoms could be presented to him without offending him, or at least minimizing the offense? Cause yes, if he gets offended that's just too bad, but why offend him on purpose if you don't have to?

Maybe it would be too much of a stretch, but it occurred to me, what if you got the flavored kind? What guy is going to resent THAT? Even Wal Mart has some fruit flavors, and maybe your naughty store has chocolate.

Nuff said, connect the dots. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

PS You are not to feel obligated in any way, shape, or form, to comment on this, or to so much as hint at what your decision and/or opinion was. Don't ask, don't tell. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yep Neak, your suggestion certainly brings to mind a "vas deferens"! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

*snicker*

Seriously, it is not impossible to type even one paragraph about condoms without inadvertently inserting all kinds of double entendres. Truly, I am not the sort of person who would want to come across as crude, and challenge anyone to do it better!

"I just can't understand why you don't schedule with Steve, Sis."

I can ... I was intimidated as all HECK to talk to Steve the first time. It took me weeks to make the scheduling call ...

So I'm with ya, Sis.

I'll tell you, though, I am SOOOO glad that I did finally make that call. Trying not to be a living ad here, but I'll tell you about it, since you asked. It wasn't as scary or weird or hard as I had feared, and he completely "got" me, and my WH (my first several calls were just me -- H didn't start on the calls until muuuuuuch later).

The first half or so of the first call was him getting the story, asking questions, etc. He'll want to gauge what all you already know (make sure you've read SAA, HNHN, and the basic concepts sections of the website before then), and what you've done, as well as your 'energy level'. The second half was all strategy, and it was great. He gave me very specific steps to take, even the exact words to say and how and when to say them when I needed that -- which was pretty often. He also was very careful to take into account my 'energy levels' -- he'll ask you how your energy is and help you know how to get through the plan when you don't feel like you have enough energy. I found that often his advice is not quite in sync with the board, and to me was worth the price (I ran up CC debt, too -- a new thing for me.)

So, again, I don't want to sound like a commercial, but for me, Steve has been a miracle worker. My H even reccommended him to someone the other day. And H started out HATING him and feeling TRICKED into calling him.

But I understand your hesitation to make that first call. I was there.

And whether you call him or not, we're all in your corner.

-AmI. <----- trying hard to ignore the "vast difference / vas defferens" (GROAN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) condom talks .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

AmI: Thanks. That is just the feedback I needed. I'm relieved to know that it's not just me...and that my feelings of being intimidated or uncertain won't hinder me from having a positive and worthwhile interaction. It is also helpful to remember that the WS "script" is not something that I will have to describe. They already get that part.

So...I'm going to do it. Well, I will at least commit to you all that I'll do one session, to try it out...see how it feels. You with me?

Can we talk about something that came up yesterday? I just loved the way you framed this issue, mimi:

I think this is so interesting; I hadn't thought of it that way before. Yet it totally fits, and is so consistent with what my best friend's FWH describes. Completely. He talks (well, TALKED, because we're not going there anymore) about how the feelings in the A were the most intense, amazing, incredible feelings he's had in his life. He still craves it, but also resents it and knows it's destructive as he11 (which is where his current head/heart out-of-synch issue comes in). This frightens me a great deal (again, so much for the bravery). I just can't see WH giving up something so incredibly satisfying and enriching, especially when contrasted with regular old, run of the mill happiness that he MIGHT find with me--even though it might be a new me.

I'm wondering...is the ONLY way for the WS to "learn the truth" (or maybe learn the LIE) about the ECSTASY to try to sustain it and discover that it's impossible? (presumably in Plan B)

And, for you recovered folks: does the FWS eventually--after withdrawal--come to recognize that that ECSTACY was irrational, abnormal emotion? or do they continue, for the rest of their lives, to long for that?

Anyway, I'm going to continue to think about this ecstacy vs. happiness issue. For me, it provides a new perspective on the addiction metaphor that's really worth processing for a while.

Still waiting for MEDC to chime in on the condom issue...which I will also try to ignore. (But A+ to Mrs. W on the pun...bad as it was) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

It's NOT enriching.

While I was in my A I loved the feelings I had, but I also questioned them...constantly....even to OM. I'd say things like, "these feelings aren't NORMAL." "Is this love or infactuation?"

I had been in love a couple of times and I could compare my feelings to those times...and in my mind, I knew what I was feeling wasn't real.

When I found MB and read that my feelings came from my addiction, then I got confirmation that my feelings were indeed fake. They DIDN'T FEEL fake. But my mind knew they were.

And I'd NEVER have used the word "enriching" to describe what I felt either. It was powerful, but not in a good wholesome, real way.



I know what it was.

Fantasy.

~ Marsh

I'm glad you seem to understand the ADDICTION METAPHOR. It is not a METAPHOR. It is REAL. It is an actual ADDICTION. At least it WAS/IS for my H. I think he is ADDICTED TO HER FOR LIFE and that's why the NO CONTACT has to be FOR LIFE. This is the Harley's POV and I certainly agree.

Along with the other RULES FOR A SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE, we continue to follow the RULE OF PROTECTION. My H follows the EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to avoid her...bugs me..but I know they are necessary. I can't wait until we can move away to another city....

It's like an alcoholic who can never take another drink...or the coke addict or any other addict....

HE ACCEPTS AND KNOWS THAT IT IS/WAS AN ADDICTION THAT ALMOST DESTROYED HIM....

And BTW..I think you have a bit to go before the condom issue...

Your WH is such a DRACULA....seems petrified of touching you..that's better than INDIFFERENCE..but, my goodness... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, most men of character don't have affairs. They can regain their character... but IMHO, a lack of character is one thing that leads to an affair.

Lilsis:

Mimi is correct about the ECSTACY of the A. It's usually the only thing holding it together.

The DANGER and EXCITEMENT. You get to be 007 and have the girl. Just like your Friend FWH has described. I can describe it to you as well.

I took that drug for 4.5 years.

That's why you need to show him the Racier, Sexier, FUN LilSis that you used to be and can be again. (Plan A)

Because that drug that you produce can be very powerful as well. My W produces it for me now.

If and when you go to Plan B, then the OW must now produce the drug when the laundry needs to get done, the kids are going to school and the vacuuming still hasn't happened. Total Buzzkill.

Screw the planner. Call Steve Harley, Schedule your appointment at his earliest conveinence, and adjust yours to fit. Let the scheduling secretary know what your screen name is and Steve may review your thread before talking with you. That may minimize your requirement to "tell the whole story" again.

As for the condoms? Go and make the choice to have them or not. Some around here will beat you to death about it, and you could expose yourself to STD's. I think it is too late for you there anyway. However, your goal in plan A is to meet EN's And although WH is still present, Last night's stiffness is an example, your Plan A is having its desired effect. One night, just like last night, you H may decide to stay longer. And if all systmes are working, than at some point, LS must pull out the wrapper... It could be a buzzkill. So decide, how far you want to go before hand. Set a boundary, you move back in, we can have SF, or after testing, we can have SF, if you have moved back in.

I think you are winning. It's a tough battle. But stay after it. And start dropping in at in-laws at odd times. Keep him off balance. Without kids every now and then would be good too.

Well, not to disappoint... here I am.
For those that think it is too late to start wearing condoms... they are right and they are wrong. We don't KNOW if this HO is sleeping with any other men too... or if she is screwing her BH... who could be sleeping around now too. So, she could contract something new today.
Also, if your WH does not feel it is appropriate to help keep you safe then frankly, you shouldn't want to sleep with him anyway. It's a condom for goodness sake.... heck, you could break the ice about this and include some in your next "care" package to him. It is suggestive and sexy... IMHO. He knows that having sex with multiple partners is not okay...he is not 12 years old.
Okay... I liked the idea that someone put on here about the flavored ones. They send an even sexier message.
All I ask is that you care enough about yourself to care for yourself.
You are doing a wonderful job LS. Having Amiok here is great for you. She can be a giouding light for you to compliment some of the others.

Be well.

LISTEN TO LG..Straight from the horse's mouth!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sis,

Do you have a key to inlaw's house?

Could you pop in occasionally when your WH isn't there and maybe leave him a pie, cookies, or maybe even a nice meal?

If you have time, maybe you could do a little cleaning up...not too much, but maybe load the dishwasher, put dishes away, or something like that? This last may kinda be considered enabling him to live away from home, but when you go to Plan B, it will be one more nice thing that he will miss about you.

Oh...and make sure you spritz a little of your perfume around...

Anyway, just tryin' to think of some more ways to get him thinking about you in a good way when you're NOT there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Listen to MEDC. Use protection. You have young children to consider. It's one thing if you choose to take a chance with your own life, it is quite another to take a chance on your children losing their mother.

Think about this before it happens. I promise you that he will come around. My WH was way colder than yours, and he started showing up for SF. The seed has been planted, and he won't resist long.

Right now, he is feeling confused. He knows he wants to be faithful, but screwed that up. So he is being faithful to the wrong woman. But that will change.

Oh, and I agree with everybody else...you MUST use protection when your H wants SF.

I just had a thought on how to get information about the high-maintenance lifestyle of OW across to your WH.

Perhaps, the next time he talks to MiL about OW, she could say something about how she doesn't think he could afford to pay for all those fancy clothes, etc. that she wears... That way, it won't be a LB coming from YOU.

How about showing up at the ILs with the pie, etc. when you know he's there alone?

This is the time when you particularly want to hug him goodbye! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BTW, do you know how he particularly likes for you to dress? Do you know the style that he finds to be particularly attractive? Men are so visual. Your visual attractiveness to him will be beyond his control.

Quickly read over the replies...looks like a lot of good stuff that I'm looking foward to reading more carefully when I'm not supposed to be working. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just an update on today...stopped by the ILs with my two roses, the second installment in the reminder of our engagement. WH's truck was not there...but as I was driving down the block, there he is walking the dog. I stopped to say hello and to greet the dog (I miss her, too!). She was much happier to see me than my WH, but he was friendly enough.

I have no idea where his truck was...but today he will be getting his crack fix. Weds. is RT's STBX's day with the kids. At least I've got him busy from 3-8 with OUR kids, but I'm sure he'll make up for lost time after he drops them off. Gag.

Also, I just left my daily risque TM. One advantage to yesterday's little TM exchange(even though once he realized that I was referencing a past intimate moment, he quickly cut off communication) is that I now KNOW he is reading TMs from me. He could have just as easily deleted them without reading them when he realized they were from me. So that's a good take-away....

More later,
LS