I've had the same gut feeling as Mimi.

I don't think it's a good idea to show your hand to the OW. Showing your hand before seems to be the key to her powerful hooks into your husband now.

I think you should maximize any opportunity to show him Affection as you've been doing, and PUMP UP THE VOLUME on the ADMIRATION whenever possible.

Just texted him:
No panties today-I dare you to come check

(Put that in your pipe and smoke it, WH.)

hahahahahaha

I am not sure where it came from but Mimi mentioned about not letting your WH believe you are out with someone else. I agree 100%.

I am still going to be the small voice here saying that some of the sexual stuff might be pushing it right now. Just my opinion.
The other thing that concerns me about all this is that your WH may not KNOW all the damage he is causing right now. While I agree that he cannot be brow beat about this stuff... it cannot be all chuckles and giggles either. He needs to know the harm he is causing his family. Specifically, when you asked him about what might be bothering your child... and he came up with an answer that did not include his actions... I think it needs to be pointed out to him how difficult this stuff is on kids. Perhaps your children need to have a talk with dad. One of the most powerful things I have seen is when my son would come to me and let me know his feelinga about his mom... I would listen, soothe and then direct him to share them directly with her. It hit home.
Right now, your WH could be seeing all this positive stuff in you and believe that his affair is actually doing some good. It is just my personal opinion... but I think another month of what you have been doing is far too much and frankly giving him way too much time in the cake line. I'm not suggesting a Plan B right now... but if there is a carrot and stick to Plan A... what has been the stick here? How is he having any consequences for his affair? Isn't the WS supposed to have the consequences fall directly on their shoulders? One of those consequences is the knowledge that he is hurting his children. I really think that while you should continue to Plan A.. that there is too much carrot here and not enough stick. JMHO.

I find myself agreeing w/ mos tof what Mkeeverydaycnt is saying.
i never did a perfect plan A.
I found MB too late and then tried to plan A just to get us over what i thought was an EA....i still don't know half of what went on w/ my H....so, my advice is nothing compared to what you are getting from the girls here.

still....i have issue w/ the 'cake walking' that your H seems to be gettign away with and i really do think another month of what you have been doing is TOO long.

and the SEX...
I don't think you should try to make him jelous and let him think you might be hanging out in bars w/o panties......but, I find myself getting VERY annoyed at your H for treating you as if you don't even have a sex drive!
how often did you have sex BEFORE D-day?

I think you are definitely making a GOOD POINT, MEDC.

That's why I said yesterday that Sis will need to have ONGOING CONVERSATIONS with her WH.

I think it's great that it's gotten to the point that they are even in close enough proximity to have such chats as at the beginning of her PLAN A he was avoiding her BIG TIME, not even coming into the house...

Also, this is why I keep stressing the need to talk to Steve Harley because Steve knows exactly how to phrase such things..getting to the WS' sense of shame about what is being done to the family...

I get the sense that Sis' H will have a hard time following through with ABANDONING his children and I agree with you that he needs to HEAR that that is EXACTLY what he is doing. Come to think of it, that's an avenue for his mother to take.

Sis, how about your MIL asking him: "How are the boys doing?" She can do some of the work on letting him HEAR that his IRRESPONSIBILITY is being NOTED and not IGNORED or DISREGARDED.

He can hear disappointment from his mother moreso than from Sis from whom he has desired ADMIRATION and RESPECT.

Not nearly enough consequences, I agree. But there have been some:
*He knows AT SOME LEVEL that he is hurting his kids. He's just not admitting it. I KNOW this must be true.
*His relationship with his parents is severely strained. He knows he has disappointed them in the worst way.
*For all intents and purposes, he chased his mother out of town. She left after Thanksgiving because it was too much to bear, and was gone for Christmas.
*All ILs have made it clear that RT will NEVER be accepted as part of the family.
*His relationship with his older brother--whom he idolizes--has been compromised to the point where when the brother came to visit, WH only spent about a half hour with him.
*His relationship with his other brother was never as close, but now it is non-existent.
*His friends all very much disapprove. That said, how that has impacted their realtionships and interactions, I'm not sure, but I'm certain it has had some impact. I'm CERTAIN they treat him differently...especially those who are most religious.
*Because he always presented himself to be such an upstanding and moral guy, EVERYONE is taking a second look at him...especially at work, since everyone there knows what happened.
*He's living at his parent's house. Even last night he mentioned how nice and warm it was in our house, and how it's so cold in their house. When I was over there yesterday, I noticed it didn't smell very nice, either.

I also don't think he is cake eating. He is firmly on the other side of the fence. I have to Plan A just to GET HIM ON the fence. See the difference? Right now he is pushing me away; he doesn't WANT this. I want him to get to the point where he WANTS it, even if it's unconscious, even if it's just a little. That way when I take it away (in plan b), he'll miss it. Right now he'd be relieved if I went to B.

Also, the sexual stuff today was like a little release valve from the intensity of last night. Just let him know that I'm not all about trying to convince him to "come back," that I can be fun, too. If I had done this a year and a half ago (even while he was in the A), he would have EATEN IT UP. This is where KNOWING my H come in...I've been with him for 13 years, so there are some buttons that I just know to press. You may not work the same way...but my gut tells me it was the right thing to do this morning.

Also, I'm sure he's getting high as we speak, so if I can do anything to distract him from that for 30 seconds, I'm good.

From Penalty Kill

Lil Sis, I have been following your thread and I have the utmost respect for you. You are articulate and intelligent and your vibrant personality just leaps off the screen.

I hope that you are successful in your quest to bring your H back home to begin the process of recovery.

That being said, as a mother I am strongly in favor of letting your H know the damage his A is doing to your children, in just the way MEDC recommends. Your H seems to have blinders on where that is concerned. Let him hear from your children how his actions are affecting them. It may sink in, it may not, but at least his illusions will be punctured.

I understand that you're walking a very fine line here, and as a FWW I am certainly no expert in Plan A. I also think that I would pull back a teeny, tiny bit on the risque stuff - but understand that is just me, I may well be wrong. I defer to the experts.

Steve H. will help you set a time limit on Plan A. I am concerned that another month of what you have been doing may be detrimental - to you.

In any case, you are an incredibly admirable woman. And your H is [email]d@mn[/email] fool at the moment.

and...

if I recall

WH really responded when LilSis spoke to him sincerely with tears in her eyes

I think he was unable to tune out the hurt she is feeling

here are some of the lies adulterors tell each other:

1. once this divorce is 'over' everyone will be happier, kids included

2. our betrayed spouses deserve happiness with 'the right partner' (the one you have yet to meet)

3. once the BSs 'move on' we can all co-exist as friends

4. breaking up the family is actually 'good for' kids if the parents are happier after the divorce

5. if the parent is not 'happy' the kids cannot be happy

6. the pain I have caused my family is for the 'greater good'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so, MEDC is correct ... WH needs to recognize this is a painful journey he is taking HIS FAMILY ON AGAINST THEIR WILL

and his Mom is in a good position to keep shoving the truth under his nose ... not you

Pep

suggestion for future text message:

"Everyone deserves a second chance. You do. Our sons do. I do. Our family is worth it."

go w/ your gut, then....i can't agrue w/ anything you have said or done so far. i hope someday you'll get the chance to write a book on it.
Good Luck!

and P.S.
I really like Peps's TM.
it puts you in the place of asking him for a favor...second chance.
and at the same time,makes him think about HIS mistakes.

PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EXACTLY. I'm not going to go there...other than raising it cautiously as I did last night...letting him know that I am aware and sensitive to the hurt that the boys are feeling. I want to be the good cop. Let MIL be the bad cop...she's fine with that.

It is a fine line.

I HAVE AN APPOINTMENT IN ONE HOUR!

GIVEN THIS, WHAT YOU DID THIS MORNING WAS PERFECT!!!

He wants YOU back again and to know that YOU ARE STILL THERE will definitely mean a lot to him.

I've been with my H for over 30 years and what has meant the most and one of the most important parts of my very successful PLAN A was going back and doing the very stuff that attracted him to me in the VERY BEGINNING...

I bet LG will tell you...that's the HOOK of the OW...

She was willing to go for the drive in the sportscar as LOW ORBIT reminded us....

YOUR THINKING IS RIGHT ON TARGET WITH THIS, IMO!!!

take notes!

tell Dr H we love his program!
Pep

This is PERFECT AMMUNITION because SHE IS CLUELESS ABOUT THOSE PARTICULAR THINGS that he LOVES!!

She is feeling her way and asking questions, hoping to come up with the RIGHT MOVES...

You already know all the moves, all the words, all the touches, all the looks...

I used to think of it as CLAIMING MY TERRITORY....

That's what's scaring him so because HE KNOWS THAT YOU KNOW....and he eventually will be DEFENSELESS...unable to push you away...

IT IS CALLED SEDUCTION...(close your ears, MEDC <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Ooops..missed the message about the appointment...

CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR ABOUT IT!!!

seduction is fine... I think it is necessary.

But when it comes to things like the kids and personal safety (not taking out a condom for fear of ruining the moment) then I say the WH either gets his a$$ in line or he's not worth it. JMHO.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL Mimi

i am assuming she meant with Dr H

because that's what I want her to mean !

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

YAY for the appointment! Can't wait to hear how it goes.

I LOVE Pep's suggested txt!!! Perfect!!!

-AmI.