It's more a friendly, low key "here's some things I've got going on...it would be nice for the boys to spend some extra time with you...what do you think?"

He will not sit down with me over breakfast or lunch. I'm too scary.

I think sending an email is less threatening and gives him the opportunity to check things out...not give a knee-jerk "no!". He'd be more likely to respond in the affirmative this way...IMHO???

LilSis,

I agree with the others, don't p.u. the boys for church on your WH's w/e or plan other activities for him to take the boys to. It is disrespectful and controlling. Not to say we can't list pages of discriptive words about your WH's behavior, we can, but our role here is to help each other be the best we can be.

Also, I know this falls into the category of MYOB, but the Plan A 'stuff, after the sentencing etc., seems like you should take a break for at least a few days. Seems a bit over the top and needy.

clever TM.
I just hope your panties don't freeze ther eon the door knob.

he won't consider sitting down w/ you and discussing the future schedule?
jeez...you do have a tough road....how did you manage to figure things out this far?
maybe you do need to suck it up and do plan A a little longer.
but, i wouldn't let an oppourtunity to request a private discussion get away.
truth is...he mentioned that he doesn't like the current set up and you know that your schedule is changing.....perfect opportunity to plan A and make a new plan TOGETHER....be alone TOGETHER .

My concern with backing off on the Plan A stuff is that I suspect that RT is feeding him a line that my only reason for "being nice" was to impact the court stuff. I want him to see that I am NOT going to quit, she can't beat me, these are REAL changes.

Besides, from his perspective (and we can continue to debate the truth of it), we cleared the air about the sentencing/letter. I told him in no uncertain terms--with tears in my eyes--that I was disappointed that he didn't stand up for me. I staked my claim on Friday...he, our marriage, our family are worth fighting for.

Honestly...after the intensity of Friday's conversation about the letter, and yesterday morning's "boundary setting," I thought a little "reward" for being nice last night was appropriate. I don't think I will come across as "needy" because of how firm I have been the last few days...setting boundaries and calling a spade a spade. He's SEEN my toughness, FELT my toughness...now show him my playfulness.

May not make sense, and it may not be the best timing...but I gotta keep fighting, keep him off-balance, keep him guessing, keep reminding him that I am in this.

Hope that makes sense. Granted, today's sneak attack was more strategic than heart-felt, but it keeps me on the offensive.

Got a TM response..."Please, stop with that"

My reply: Nope...who but your wife should be doing this? hee.. hee..

I think this panty thing may soon become an LB issue

think about a different Plan A approach now

Pepto-bismol

Why do you think he wants you to stop?

I worry (and my thinking could be WAY off here, just want to share) that he does not take you or your offers seriously....that he thinks you are making fun of him in some way.

No. I think these suggestive remarks make him feel uncomfortable...this is the VERY clear sense that I get. He doesn't want to be reminded that we have a LEGITIMATE connection. He doesn't want to feel like he is "cheating" on RT. He doesn't want to be reminded that he can't really BE "cheating" on RT, because by being with RT, he really IS cheating on me, his wife.

He doesn't want to see me as playful, because that is one of the cards upon which his little house is built...that I am not sexy or playful. I am CHALLENGING HIS ASSUMPTIONS about me, and he doesn't like it. Thus..."please stop."

Of course, this is what I HOPE is the case. I think that is how mimi would describe it??? I do NOT believe at all that he thinks I'm making fun of him.

My concern would actually be something different...and is that he loses respect for me...HOWEVER, because AT THE SAME TIME that I am being playful, I am ALSO being firm about my boundaries, I am reminding him that I am doing this to save our marriage, I am being strong, I am telling him that I love him, the playfulness becomes part of a larger package, a bigger picture of me that is developing.

personally

I think you made the MOST headway when you said to him

"You treat me like I am nothing."

this struck me as a most important moment as I read it

because he reacted in such a way that basically said he was surprized you felt this way

can you come up with something like a poem, or a story, or a prayer that speaks to this... and give it to him?

Pep

Plan A the romantic heroic parts of him too

not just the fun sexy side

is what I meant to say

Pep

you know him best.but, when i said he might think you were making fun of him.....i was thinking maybe he thinks you are trying to compete w/ what he has w/ RT and it feel disengenuious to him...like a joke......on him.
i wish i could explain this better....as much as my H LOVED it when i acted flirty and sexual toward him...he got very defensive if he THOUGHT i was making fun of what he THOUGHT was sexy but was a little ashamed of.
make any sense?

Nia

I totally "get" what you are saying

Pep

Thank You. I appreciate that.
I struggle w/ trying to explain myself.

LS's W-husband is greatly bothered by the panties issue

but it may be for a totally different reason than LS suspects

it makes HIM feel like a schmuck (and he is)
but therefore it is not a turn-on ... and thus counter-productive to LS's goal of attracting him

LS may very well be correct ... but I think it is disrespectful to continue the in-you-face-panties once he has clearly asked she cease

disrespect for a direct request is not too good
UNLESS it is a vital for the family issue, which this is npt

Pep

Shoot. Lost my first reply. That doesn't happen on my Mac at home.

I think the "I am nothing" response was not because he was SURPRISED that I felt that way, I think it was because it had not OCCURRED to him that although he may not FEEL that I am nothing...clearly his actions/inactions were in FACT TREATING me as if I were nothing. (I said this better in the first reply, darnit) That is to say, he was not surprised that I felt like nothing...he was surprised that he had TRULY treated me like a piece of trash....and he didn't realize that.

I think it was an SPLIT SECOND when the fog cleared (only to promptly roll right back in)...when he realized that perhaps his and RT's entitlement went a tad bit too far, that, oh my!...we actually HURT someone with our little games! And he didn't know what to do with that...thus he babbled on nonsensically about how we didn't communicate well... until the fog could roll back in and he didn't have to face it anymore.

Yes...enough for the sexy playful. Romantic is addressed through the roses. That has REAL DEEP significance for us as a couple. It was at the core of our engagement.

BTW...I TM'd him a little earlier:
"I'm sorry...I just want you to see me. I am a warm loving sexy woman and I'm yours. I'm your wife."

LilSis:

I would have LOVED the Panty thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I second Pep's Note about romantic heroic side, as well. Any Idea's Pep? I think the door lock thing was good for this.

I do not know if the panty thing will become a LB, LilSis can guage that on the ground. If you find the panties thrown on the ground, or in the trash, then you know better. If you find them put away neatly, then that is working. Confusion.

I had suggested earlier about a breakfast meeting. Your Email regarding schedules, can be a start. Though you cliam he doesn't want to eat with scary you.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Here's a quick rewrite of the email:

You asked me on Friday if I were taking on additional hours at work. We should talk about that and how it will impact the boys. I may be offered a full-time position. If I do go to full-time—or even if I take on additional hours that require a different work schedule, this can really disrupt our current schedule. Even the current arrangements are creating difficulties all the way around. Can we meet this week at "insert Friday Restaurant here" on xxx day and time to sort some of this out? (Offer several reasonable good times for you and him to meet, make sure that kids are in school).

Close with:
1. C-LY-B or
2. I know how as a Police Officer how hectic your schedule can be, so I am trying to work within your schedule.
3. This is just to discuss the scheduling of the kids.
4. I won't be wearing any panties at the meeting.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

OK, I would really recommend 1 as the close and 3 as the final line in the email.


Go get'em Tiger!

Hi, my name is SHOL and I am a LilSis thread addict. I happened upon this thread when it first started, and I am hooked.

LilSis,
I hope the timing for this is OK.

I haven’t posted anything because my situation was nothing like yours, as my FWH ended his PA of his own accord and dday was several months later, so I don’t think I can be of much help for you right now. However, your title describes the OW in our case very well, and my H is a stereotypical Mr. Nice Guy/rescuer/passive-aggressive tendencies kind of person, so I do have a couple of things I’d like to point out.

Before I write this, be warned that I tend to be a “glass half full” kind of person. The A almost chased that out of me, but it must be too ingrained. I like to paraphrase a line from Romancing the Stone – I’m not a hopeless romantic, just a hopeful one.

Anyway….

In an A, the WS and the OP are on the inside, and the S is on the outside. I believe one of the first cracks in the A is when the WS begins to let the S back in and put the OP on the outside. A couple of pages back, talking about your sentencing, your WH said he and RT “sort of had it out over this”. OMG! Translation from my Mr. Nice Guy’s language of that sentence would mean it was close to WWIII! PLUS, he let you in on a huge SECRET about the A – things are not always rosy. He betrayed the R with RT by telling you about a fight they had! Am I the only one that sees this as a very hopeful sign that you are getting to him?

The other thing is a lot more subtle, and I may be reading too much into it, but when your WH said something about your parenting standards falling – could that be a recognition that he is starting to see more of LilSis, the bride he married, instead of Miss P, the wife he was able to justify cheating on? (During his A, the word “wife” was said with such disdain by my then WS. The evil alien apparently hated “her”).

I’ll go back to being a silent supporter now. Prayers are being said for you and your family.

I can go along with that...see your point about the joke being on him, and I think that one has run its course anyway.

However, he has also asked me to stop with the roses and I did not. I really don't want to stop with that....that goes to the heart of who we "were" as a couple, what we meant to each other. Is there a way to acknowledge his discomfiture...but explain why I need to continue? Include a letter next time, maybe?

"I know you don't want for me to continue to give these to you, but these roses represent something very, very special to me...one of the most joyous moments of my life...a moment that you gave to me out of pure love and generousity. For me, NOW is a new beginning, a new start, just like when you first began giving me roses 13 years ago. For me, this is an opportunity for a new start to a new marriage...a better one that before. So please, just accept these roses as a gift of pure love and generosity, from me to you...hoping to begin again."

Lilsis...
being supportive here... if you wish to remain in Plan A, I would suggest toning it down somewhat. The panty thing would be a huge turn off for me and frankly I would not mention them again. He has, IMO, already reached the point where it is very annoying to him.
I feel the same way about the very suggestive comments towards him. YOU should be the one doing this stuff with him... but if he isn't open to it and it continues it will turn into another negative.
I think the roses are fine... but if he asks you to stop, I would make sure that you listen to his words. This entire thing is very tough for you... I know that...I can only say that for me some of the stuff would come across as being too over the top.
So, my advice is to continue in Plan A if that is your choice... but to tone it down quite a bit. Putting myself in your WH's place much of this would seem "phony" even though YOU mean every bit of it.

Thanks LG, as usual. I like your re-write. Helps to have someone revise out all the ranting and raving. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks SHOL...I have been thinking about that "had it out" remark as well and have acutally been a little surprised that no one commented on it. And you hit the nail on the head about the "parenting standards" thing! I couldn't articulate it...but that was the thought that flickered through my mind as soon as he said it.

I am a glass-half-full kind of person, too, usually...maybe a little is dripping out these days. So I love the rah-rahs...keep them coming, SHOL!

I'm getting NO WORK done today. Good thing it's slow.