MEDC: Thanks for your support. I am going to stop the panty talk. I think it has run its course...joke's gotten old. I haven't really beeen doing suggestive talk with him other than the panty stuff. I really cannot see the roses as over the top...it's such a personal, private thing to US (or was until 20000 people read this post).

I know you think I should promptly go to Plan B, but if I'm not willing to do that RIGHT NOW...and I stop doing what I'm doing, what do you suggest I do? Remember...we have very limited contact. I AM open to suggestions, I just may not take them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

love dat

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

First off... if I am being honest... it is not Plan A that I have had the problem with... it was the things I considered to be over the top. I think hanging in there with Plan A is fine so long as you are maintaining the respect that YOU deserve.
Be a great mom.... you are... so just continue to be.
Invite him to family dinners... he may turn you down 10 times... but there is no harm in asking.
Let the kids invite him to dinner if they so choose.
Bake his favorite cookies and give them to him as he is leaving.
Let him know that you love him by your actions... remind him that you can still forgive this and move forward... that it is not too late. This can all be said with a little note in with the cookies... "Our family, our future, our tomoorws are worth the effort."
Those are off the top of my head.

I love your suggestions, MEDC. I WILL take them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe this will help you understand a bit about where I am coming from him my behavior...this is how I frame it to MYSELF:
I am behaving in a way that I would behave if WH and I were a happily married couple.

AND (a BIG and)..we ARE STILL a married couple, even though he has convenient memory loss in that area...so I don't feel that I am disgracing myself in that way. The man saw me give birth for goodness sake. Seriously, our union is consecrated by God...it is THE ONLY legitimate relationship...NOT the illegitimate one that he has with RT. So...I do not feel ashamed of coming on to my husband...RT ought to be ashamed, and WH ought to be ashamed...but I AM NOT. This is part of showing my strengh. This is the wife he gets if he choses to come back. This is how I would be....he has not met THIS lilsis, so I'm introducing him. He still wants to maintain his image of the old LilSis. I am CHALLENGING that image.

I wish I could explain it better, MEDC. But if you are concerned over me disgracing myself...or being insincere...I am not.

-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.

this comes from Gimble, a fav of mine

Pep

LilSis,

can you tell us alittle bit more about H?
not WH...the guy before him? before RT.
I assume she is the first OW, is that correct?
Was this affair totally out of character for him....looking back, could you see it coming in any way?

I second this. I think it could be very helpful.
Mulan

I don't think you are being insincere or disgracing yourself.... HE is doing that to himself. I am concerned that HE is going to view you that way.... and in this Plan... his perception of what you are doing is very important.
I think everything you are doing is genuine and with good intent. I just think that in his current state that much of it will be seen as a negative.

If you have a conversation with your children and ask them how they are doing with dad not being here... further it, by asking them what they miss the most. If it is dinner times... tell them it is okay to call dad and invite him over... if it is another family thing... let them know it is okay to bring that to his attention... and then YOU bring it to him too. Our kids said... xyz... can you come over and have dinner with us for their sake? And perhaps, if he sees that you have toned down some of the overtly sexual stuff he will be more comfortable being around you. IMHO, being a part of the family again... even for a few hours is what is going to get him... not a promise or idea of sex. Because... and I hate to say this because I know it stings... he's most likely getting sex right now (from a no good slut!) but is probably missing his family a lot.

i am hoping w/ some more info on your H, people here will get a better 'view' him and the way his mind works.

I think MiMi said that LG could have been HER H durring the affair...I don't get the impression YOUR H is much like LG.

Why do you say this? Sis has told us a lot about her H..he is insecure, feels inferior to his brothers, etc...

Maybe I missed something while I've been gone, Nia...I love your name by the way..I was going to name my daughter that name..of course, I didn't have a daughter... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The thing is..Sis, LG's wife and I seem to be alike in our actions and thinking prior to our H's affairs...

If you have chance to look back earlier in the thread, Sis has answered this question....

Any comparison to LG must be tempered by the knowledge that LG is still particpating in a deception regarding the H of the OW he was involved with.
I think he offers good advice here and is great to get a WS perspective on things... but there exists a moral vacuum in which he has justified not informing the OWH about his actions.
I sincerely hope that prior to the A that Lilsis' H had a higher set of morals than to allow this to happen.

LG... I know I am opening myself up to criticism here by you and others... but you have failed to do one of the things that most BS would have loved to have had... someone, anyone willing to stand up and provide the information about the A. IMHO, this information cuts down on your credibilty and puts into question both your integrity and also your understanding of BS's.
I will say no more on the subject since I do not want to TJ Lilsis's thread.

GREAT!!! I'm reading backwards...

or maybe I missed something......or I am reading something into something that isn't there. LOL

I was under the impression that LG had affairs w/ several different women and that his personality is less conservative than how *I* perceive LS's H.
(i apologize if i have you confused w/ someone else LG)

My H is also insecure, feels inferior to his brothers.
There are similarities to LG and your H.

I am going out on a limb here w/ my assumptions......i know i shouldn't assume and may be way off, but for some reason i am getting the idea that LS's H would have never have gone looking for a full blown affair (sex? maybe) and that RT was the one who FELL into his lap....and MADE him fall for her.........and now, he is trying to find a way to justify his commitment to her.

I got the impression that LG was the initiator in his affairs. I get the impression that LG is an extrovert and has a more spontaneous personality.
I do not see that in LilSis's H.
again...sorry LG...if i have that wrong.

thanks.
i skimmed all of LilSis's posts trying to catch up.....i was looking for a little more detail and depth about H and THEIR relationship.....maybe i missed something.

One likely side effect of you laying off the panties, (though you could get him his own pair of manhobritches before you let it RIP *snicker*), is he will actually miss it.

WS's are soooooooo contrary! They don't like it and ask you to stop, and then when you do they find themselves with unadmitted longing for what they had, on all levels.

Plan B only makes that more clear.

Okay, quick recap while I wait for mimi to catch up. Welcome back, mimi! (waving) Hope you had a wonderful time!

H was a morally upright, highly principled man pre-A. He had a great deal of integrity and honor. Everyone adored him...thought he was such a "good guy." Always helpful, considerate, etc. He always looked down on those who had affairs, and there are lots of examples in the police department. He comes from a religiously conservative culture...although his own family was not conservative...but that's the cultural context from which he came. He attended a Christian liberal arts college, majored in psych.

He's an underachiever...highly intelligent but not ambitious. Could have done a lot more with himself professionally, but fell into police work as he did an internship there and sort of got caught up in the excitement...which wore very thin after about 5 years in. He was named officer of the year about six years in....that's how much everyone like him and thought so highly of him. Everyone used to say he'd be the youngest captain ever...but he NEVER sought promotion. Now he's got 14 years in, so there's ZERO excitement, and I think about the time the A began, he was feeling REALLY trapped into this dead-end career, hating his life. I also think he was experiencing some depression...it runs in his family, but he would NEVER admit to it.

Also, I was not meeting needs. I was Miss Perfect, Supermom, had a great, interesting career. The house was always clean and the cookies were always homemade. But my husband was unhappy...silently unhappy.

Meanwhile, RT was a SAHM, bored out of her skull, resentful of her ultra-conservative religion and her boring husband. She lives in the same neighborhood as us, which is also WH's patrol area. He'd stop by and visit with her...both bored, both feeling slighted by their spouses, enjoying bike riding, etc. It began as a "friendship" that quickly spun out of control. RT's own husband thinks that she was the instigator...that she WAS looking for it. I do not believe that WH was looking...it just "happened." (his pants must have fell down...)

Must I go on? I'm feeling nauseous.

Suffice it to say...TOTALLY, 1000% OUT OF CHARACTER. Every single person that I exposed to said, "WH?!?!?! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!"

He does sound like a very passive (not passive/aggressive) kind of guy who is mostly content to just sort of let things happen instead of going out and MAKING them happen.

Strange that he fell into police work - ?

How did the two of you fare during dating and courtship? What attracted you to him, and viceversa? And how/why exactly did you get married? Did he propose, or did you?
Mulan

YES! very passive. He has said that about himself, and also that deciding to be with RT was the first thing he ever did for himself. HUH??? Total history re-write....oh wait. Yes, it was me, the one who throws up in a canoe, who wanted to buy a boat....I FORCED HIM!!

He does fall into things...the way I used to state it was that he would not make a decision, thereby making a decision by default. For example: our 13-year old Chocolate lab was OLD and nearly crippled with hip pain and could barely hold her bladder. WH refused to have her put down. Just that kind of thing...like he's wait for her to just keel over dead one day after having been in abject misery for years. He fell into police work because what do you do with a degree in psych...except grad school? He didn't want to do that, wanted to get started on his life, and working at the PD during his internship had been fun.

We met, pretty much love at first sight...TONS in common that I had never experienced before. And I was 25...so I had been around the block with several serious relationships under my belt at that point. We were inseparable right away. I knew after the first weekend that we would marry. After a year of dating, he proposed....but by then we both knew we would marry. We were totally in synch with our values, our opinions, our views on life and family. We were looking at houses, I had taken a job here (I lived an hour away).

EXACTLY LIKE MY FWH..who is LG's TWIN !!