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scary. she sounds like a terrorist. 24 was on in the background. Do you think she has enough patience to NOT ask any questions of your H after he spends time w/ you? or do you think she just asks in a very cunning and manipulitive way? Cunningly and manipulatively, of course. But it doesn't help that WH is clearly an absolute SUCKER when it comes to her. So she gets the info she wants, without him even knowing it. I have considered that maybe her "victim" impact letter was written in response to my Plan A-ing. It was dated in January.... how did she get infor out of you about H when you were supposedly friends? Cunningly and manipulatively. She always sounded so innocent. But I had a bad vibe about her, which just got progressively louder. Just a few days before d-day, we went to (get this) Vacation Bible School event that all of our kids attended. I had had a glass of wine before WH and I went over to the church...at that point I WAS having at least 1 glass a day--I was so stressed about our marital situation, knowing SOMETHING was wrong. RT was there, too, of course, and she came right out and asked me, "Have you been drinking?" It was UNREAL, SO RUDE, her tone so accusatory. I was so shocked...I had ONE glass of wine before I came. I think she must have really been getting brave, really confident. Maybe they had planned for me to "accidently" discover the emails just a few days later... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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This is what I thought....WRONG....
NO COMPETIVENESS....Intellectual competiveness is COMPETIVENESS...
Check this out, Sis...
I have a professional post-graduate degree and profession...
The OW hadn't even gone to college... Agree. I have a degree and a great career. The OW is a high school drop out who PAINTS HOUSES for a living and drinks jumbo BUDS. ["gonna tie one on!"] Competing is competing, and intellectual competition drove my H away. Especially political debates. NOT ATTRACTIVE.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes...and I hope you are both correct...but maybe I give RT too much credit. I can envision her KNOWING intuitively that interrogating him will be an LB, so she bites her tongue, and she is PATIENT. This "woman" won't UNBITE her tongue until she has WH fully wrapped up in her web, pumped full of the paralyzing venom, and is ready to start sucking his blood.
She's evil evil evil. A friend of mine was telling me recently that women like this may really be WITCHES!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> My OW was/is like this too!! That's why WARFARE was necessary....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Erm...
Well. It can work both ways.
Did these spirited discussions involve debate in which one person is wrong and the other wins?
See...there is a difference between discussing and debating.
I wouldn't want to see you embrace the role of simpering sycophant...more than one WS has snivelled about the OP being their intellectual equal after all.
Neither do I think that constant debate and one upsmanship turning your basic relationship into an adversarial one is a good thing.
It's more the how than the what.
People do occasionally like to be challenged in a FUN way that they are ENJOYING, they like stimulating discussion...and sometimes it's hard to tell if it's them enjoying the debate...or just you.
Were the discussions respectfull?
Did they have a know it all quality?
Were they emasculating?
Only you and he know.
The fact that you bring it up may suggest you have some insecurity about it.
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
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A friend of mine was telling me recently that women like this may really be WITCHES!!! Better said, though..PEOPLE OF THE LIE...EVIL..not of GOD...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Well are you going to do my panty idea or what?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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I really hope so and if you do please post pics.
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
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I am now trying to think of a reason..ANY reason why I need to make some google eyed underwear and leave them somewhere.
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
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He doesn't want spirited discussions, nia..
He wants ROMANCE..her looking up into his eyes while he talks...her wearing a sexy outfit... Okay...romance is great, romance is fun...but style over substance...??? I can't see WH being happy with that long-term. Nothing in an A works long term, but I'm trying to clarify this issue for myself. Yes, we went to a Kerry rally, both politically aware, newshounds, care about issues (environment, etc.) RT's favorite magazine is US weekly. So I think I go back to my RESPECT comment...spirited discussion/intellectual competitiveness=wrong choice of words. This sounds absurd given my H is a WH, but it's about knowing that your partner shares your values and passions (not just the physical kind) and is an intellectual equal. Yes, every spouse wants to be admired and adored, AND in the end, every spouse wants to be able to carry on a conversation, too...at least I sure do! Am I wrong? I hope not...that was absolutely one of the things that attracted me to WH, and he to me, I KNOW!
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I am now trying to think of a reason..ANY reason why I need to make some google eyed underwear and leave them somewhere. LMAO! ~ Marsh
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Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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He doesn't want spirited discussions, nia..
He wants ROMANCE..her looking up into his eyes while he talks...her wearing a sexy outfit... OK....I was not getting that. You think LS intimidates him w/ her knowledge and inteligence? Spirited Conversations have gone both ways for me and my H. I was trying to find out if they enjoyed the connection they got during these conversations. I enjoy spirited conversations w/ my H....but then again...they turn ME ON......I usually end up on his lap in no time. However.....personality wise I think I am actually more like RT than LS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> NOT the manipulitive cheating Ho part.
Last edited by nia17; 01/22/07 10:58 PM.
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Okay...romance is great, romance is fun...but style over substance...??? I can't see WH being happy with that long-term. Nothing in an A works long term, but I'm trying to clarify this issue for myself. LS, but romance IS substance. Physical attractiveness IS substance. Flirting with your H IS substance. It is part of the package and SHOULD work "long term" if that is what attracts your spouse and makes him happy. If this is what makes your spouse happy, it should be a big part of your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Did these spirited discussions involve debate in which one person is wrong and the other wins? No! It would typically be something like watching some talking head on TV and we would both be agreeing or disagreeing. We would sort of reinforce or validate our common opinions. Rarely did we disagree about current events kind of stuff...actually, we NEVER did until probably about a year into the A when he suddenly decided that he wasn't really interested in all of that stuff anymore that he used to LOVE to talk about and felt so strongly about for the previous 11 years of our marriage. Hmmmm....
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Dear LS,
Your story is compelling, and yet, so true to the life I live. (Pre- Afairville)!
I do not know if my H has had an A, and I pray he has not, but with the similar "mindset" of the pre-affair relationship, I can only gather hope by your strength.
I have followed your story from the begining, and I only wish nothing but the best for you and your boys.
I have "aped" your plan A, and it seems to be working for me.
(panties) included!
When he comes back to you, and he will, I just what to say, THANK YOU!!
You are an inspiration to the institute of marriage!
God Speed!
PGA
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Okay...romance is great, romance is fun...but style over substance...??? I can't see WH being happy with that long-term. Nothing in an A works long term, but I'm trying to clarify this issue for myself. LS, but romance IS substance. Physical attractiveness IS substance. Flirting with your H IS substance. It is part of the package and SHOULD work "long term" if that is what attracts your spouse and makes him happy. If this is what makes your spouse happy, it should be a big part of your marriage. I agree! Romance, flirting, etc.=all VERY important. Got that lesson in spades, the hard way. I just don't think it should be at the EXPENSE of an intellectual connection. See...I can give WH BOTH...RT can only give the one. Style SAME LEVEL AS Substance...but not OVER substance.
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Did these spirited discussions involve debate in which one person is wrong and the other wins? No! It would typically be something like watching some talking head on TV and we would both be agreeing or disagreeing. We would sort of reinforce or validate our common opinions. Rarely did we disagree about current events kind of stuff...actually, we NEVER did until probably about a year into the A when he suddenly decided that he wasn't really interested in all of that stuff anymore that he used to LOVE to talk about and felt so strongly about for the previous 11 years of our marriage. Hmmmm.... LS, meet Alien....Alien...LS. Now that we are all introduced [sad chuckle] let me empathize. I know exactly what you mean by this. The things he used to like...maybe even the things he sought you out for...have now become boring, worthless, whathaveyou in the face of whatever OP is shoveling. This sort of thing is temporary I think. It was for me. Good thing to because I look pretty stupid trying to go for romantic when the topic has me going bugsh*t.
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
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Style SAME LEVEL AS Substance...but not OVER substance. Why do you not view romance as substance, LS?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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LS, but romance IS substance. Physical attractiveness IS substance. Flirting with your H IS substance. It is part of the package and SHOULD work "long term" if that is what attracts your spouse and makes him happy. If this is what makes your spouse happy, it should be a big part of your marriage. MEL IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, IMO!!! I've been happeily recovered for 3 years..and everyday there is more and more ROMANCE and AFFECTION and ADMIRATION and SF....minimal intellectual discussions...lots of LAUGHTER and FUN!!!! Remember, Sis...PLAN A IS ABOUT CHANGE.... I'm happy not to be that self-righteous, competitive, asexual wife that I used to be.... Do not criticize who the OW is..learn from her..HE IS IN LOVE WITH HER..he loves the type of person that she is PRETENDING to be..that's the difference..she can't MAINTAIN that PRETENSE.. But your change can be longlasting....and ..real... If it is what your H finds attractive and that makes him happy that should definitely matter to you.... I agree totally with Mel.. Throught my reading and talking to my H over the past few years, I have learned so much about what a man wants and what a man needs. I used to be so clueless.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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However.....personality wise I think I am actually more like RT than LS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> NOOOOOOO!!!!! Maybe I have OVERESTIMATED WH's confidence in his ability to keep up with me intellectually. Is this possible? He's in this dead-end job working with a bunch of doofs. He does not grow intellectually in his job at all. He is not challenged, isn't pushed...as a matter of fact, the level of autonomy for an officer has diminished over the past 10 years as management philosophies have changed. On the other hand, I am always challenged at work, always stimulated to do new and differnt things...be creative, initiate change...etc. I'm growing, he's stagnating. Even though when we met we were very much equals, maybe he feels he's being left behind. Yikes! That's kind of scary to me...that's me being very honest with you all....
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