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I don't know if that's such a good idea. When I did that with my ex, he DIDN'T show up. I think it is better not to ask something that will drain even more from LS's LB if he refuses.
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Pep:
I love your idea.
What do you think about her E-Mail request to talk to him about THINGS on Friday? You may have missed that. Both of them are off and the kids are in school.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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100 bucks says RT is telling WH that you don't really want/need HIM ... she is a lying snake who says you will be just fine if you just accept "them" I even bet 200 bucks or more on this...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Pep:
I love your idea.
What do you think about her E-Mail request to talk to him about THINGS on Friday? You may have missed that. Both of them are off and the kids are in school. I think that is wonderful
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LS - I think you missed this last night in the hubbub...
Let's take another track in thinking this through.
Think of OW like a Gestapo agent with a PHD in psychology - she knows her outcome is full surrender on the part of her victims. Each she has to treat VERY differently - and YES she is after FOUR victims here - your husband AND you - and your children. And the other heads she gets to count - your ILs - all for her consumption.
Now that you see her as that kind of predator, and you know your husband is fully in her snare - taken in, and programmed subliminally to see you as the enemy.
That's why she's so confident. Because her programming work on your husband was complete before you knew what was happening. She knows that to react to anything you do may break her programming hold on your wayward husband. (Think science fiction if you like - Stargate SG1 - Gau' ald like...
However, that's not to say that Gestapos have no feelings. But it takes a lot to get them out of control. She has no shame. Nothing is beneath her.
You have to become VERY unpredictable. Panties are out. What about bras?
Seriously, the only thing she's likely to freak about is him spending time with you. Even then, she may encourage it as a sign you're finally seeing the light and caving in to amicable divorce.
Time - Do the boys like football? How about some prime DADDY family time with a superbowl party he's never seen before at his own home, with his own boys? Have the boys create some invitations with crayons and glue-on things or stickers, and invite him to come over to their house to watch - because the game gets out so late, they have to sleep in their own beds, etc...
Get a nerf ball they can toss in the house - put the lamps away for the occasion...
No superbowl time with RT - let her stew on it and choke on it - all the while working very hard to keep her smiley face on - after all, she can't seem like she's coming between him and his boys?
Make her work harder to keep that pasty smiley supportive understanding face on. She's the type that it will take quite some time before she cracks. And you have time... 16 years with those boys that she's going to feel threatened because he will always be a daddy...
Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1 The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"? The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!" If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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SUSAN, whom I love & respect has suggested a path for Plan A ~~~> spend as much time as possible with your H
because it causes stress in A-land
so besides roses or bras or poetry ... which I think you need to do as YOU see fit
start needing WH to drop by on a daily basis
CALL him ... and tell him you need him to come by, you feel frightened and need his support
LS: I am asking a favor.
WH: (reluctantly) what is it?
LS: I am so frightened.
WH: what?
LS: I am frightened. Please help me.
WH: what do you want?
LS: please, come by and talk to me, I am so scared of the future, my mind is just going a thousand miles an hour ... what if? what if?
WH: I don't think that's a good idea
LS: I need you, please help me
he'll show up
let him see some more of your genuine sadness and fear from time to time
100 bucks says RT is telling WH that you don't really want/need HIM ... she is a lying snake who says you will be just fine if you just accept "them"
so fight back with reality
things are NOT OK
this hurts
he can help soothe your pain with a hug, some time at a park, going for a walk
Pep
They just keep needing sme time..and letting him see their grief and not letting him avoid what he is doing to hurt them.
And oh so many WSs bite.
Oh they may be annoyed.
But it keeps you in the equation.
Sometimes...a lot of times that is all it takes.
I have even seen an OW successfully stalk her OM here...even though he was angry..she just kept herself on the radar.
I'd like to see it work for a good cause.
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
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LilSis ~ I didn't used to be a lurker =)
Have hope. I had the wonderful support of a MIL too...and it had a tremendous impact on my husband's decision to come home. He knew that the family would never accept OW.
Your husband sounds like a GOOD and decent man who has lost his way, and he will be that man again one day if you continue to be the lighthouse he needs.
Unfortunately there are no shortcuts to recovery - don't despair - this too shall pass.
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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BR is HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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A thought about Admiration need.
My husband's wayward ways have undermined his ability to feel like a man. And it doesn't make it any easier that I've been able to step up and take care of the family.
His greatest admiration need from me is for me to notice and express appreciation and admiration when he does step up - especially those times he doesn't see it.
Case in point - we had a little accident happen on our property Sunday a.m. just before church - slick roads and speed - the guy clipped the stop sign, bounced through the decorative rocks we have around the yard and into our fence. I really wanted to let Kasey handle the whole thing, which he did. Turned out the owner of truck was incredibly angry about our decorative rocks - as if they were responsible for jumping out in the middle of the road and dragging his truck and his employee who was driving the truck right into our property - belligerent and very much the type of person that would have done everything he could have done to intimidate a woman. Kasey handled it just fine.
After church, I went in and thanked him for handling Mr. Chauvenist - and protecting the family and especially ME from having to deal with a vile human being. Just what he needed to hear. I got a ca-ching in his love-bank that day instead of a ker-plunk!
Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1 The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"? The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!" If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Sis:
Your prayers are being answered.
Your Shout Out was heard by BR....Another one of my own MB ANGELS...
I say WOW, too...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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hey Mimi =)
LilSis - just a thought on admiration...
In recovery I found that admiration was a powerful incentive to my husband in getting him to fill my needs.
I heap praise on him for things I want him to do more of, and he eagerly does those things.
It's not about giving away your integrity or being false.
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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LilSis,
I don't know if anything I have to say is encouraging or not, but I'll put my 2 cents in anyway.
I just hated to see this thread turn the way it did last night. I know everyone here is rooting for you and believes you are going about this thing the right way.
I kept reading and rereading and thinking "stop this, she doesn't need this right now". But I do believe it was good stuff in the end. Helpful even. This is probably a good time to really think about what RT did to lure your WH to her.
I believe you know how to read your WH and you have been pretty clear with all us in your descriptions of your interactions with him. You KNOW him in ways we cannot. There are many on this board who keep saying to you "he's exactly like my FWH", and he may be similar to some. But he is not the same. What I'm saying here is that you should trust your own judgement about how you go about this next crucial time.
I've been reading, following and praying for you enough to trust your gut feelings and you should too.
Meet with him, don't meet with him, continue with fun and flirty, switch to a dark plan B...whatever. I feel certain that you will know what to do next. Follow your instincts.
We'll all still be here pulling for you.
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Sis, you've got tons of hope. A year or so down the road when you are well established in recovery, you will be able to see it just the same for others. Your sitch in and of itself is bursting with hope. There is an excellent chance your H will return, even better than before. But that is not where your main hope should lie. Statistics are good, and it is wonderful that they are on your side, but you have weapons the OW does not. You have righteousness, and the sword of the Lord on your side. God wants your family together. He does NOT want the OW to succeed in destroying what He set up in the first place. If your WH keeps his W, it will be because he has ignored every inducement that you AND GOD could lay before him. You need to pray for the OW, and I am going to give you some very excellent promises from the Bible that you can claim on her (and your) behalf. You see, God makes it clear that the enemies of His children will be cast down. In the case of the OW, God will seek to completely abase her, in order to help her find Him, as well as to save your family. Start by claiming the promises of her downfall, and you will find that you can also pray for her salvation. Not her happiness, not any warm pink fuzzies, just that she will repent and turn from her sins. (Especially since if she turns from her sins she is also turning from your WH.) Deuteronomy 33
27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms; and He shall thrust out the enemy from before thee, and shall say, `Destroy them.'
28 Israel then shall dwell in safety alone; the fountain of Jacob shall be upon a land of corn and wine; also his heavens shall drop down dew.
29 Happy art thou, O Israel! Who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! And thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee, and thou shalt tread upon their high places." Ezra 8:31
Then we departed from the river of Ahava on the twelfth day of the first month to go unto Jerusalem; and the hand of our God was upon us, and He delivered us from the hand of the enemy and from such as lay in wait by the way. Psalm 7
8 The LORD shall judge the people: Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness and according to mine integrity that is in me.
9 O let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end, but establish the just; for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
10 My defense is of God, who saveth the upright in heart.
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
~and~
14 Behold, the wicked travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief and brought forth falsehood.
15 He made a pit and dug it, and has fallen into the ditch which he hath made.
16 His mischief shall return upon his own head; and his violent dealings shall come down upon his own pate.
17 I will praise the LORD according to His righteousness, and will sing praise to the name of the LORD Most High. Psalm 55
12 For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it. Neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him.
13 But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide and mine acquaintance.
14 We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.
15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down alive into ******; for wickedness is in their dwellings and among them.
16 As for me, I will call upon God, and the LORD shall save me.
17 Evening and morning and at noon will I pray and cry aloud, and He shall hear my voice.
18 He hath delivered my soul in peace from the battle that was against me, for there were many with me.
19 God shall hear and afflict them, even He that abideth of old. Selah Because they have not changed, therefore they fear not God.
20 He hath put forth his hands against those that are at peace with him; he hath broken his covenant.
21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart; his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
22 Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and He shall sustain thee. He shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.
23 But Thou, O God, shalt bring them down into the pit of destruction; bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days. But I will trust in Thee. Just for balance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Proverbs 24
15Lie not in wait, O wicked man, against the dwelling of the righteous; spoil not his resting place;
16for a just man falleth seven times and riseth up again, but the wicked shall fall into trouble.
17Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth,
18lest the LORD see it and it displease Him, and He turn away His wrath from him.
19Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious of the wicked;
20for there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out. (Just because you pray she has a downfall doesn't mean you get to gloat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) Micah 7
1 Woe is me! For I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grape gleanings of the vintage: There is no cluster to eat; my soul desired the first ripe fruit.
2 The good man is perished out of the earth, and there is none upright among men. They all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
3 That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man uttereth his wicked desire; so they wrap it up.
4 The best of them is as a brier; the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge. The day of thy watchman and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity.
5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide; keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoreth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law: a man's enemies are the men of his own house.
7 Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.
8 Rejoice not over me, O mine enemy; when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me.
9 I will bear the indignation of the LORD because I have sinned against Him, until He plead my cause and execute judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold His righteousness.
10 Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her that said unto me, "Where is the LORD thy God?" Mine eyes shall behold her; now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets. Zephaniah 3
14 Sing, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!
15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments; He hath cast out thine enemy. The King of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee; thou shalt not see evil any more. You are going to win in and through this. Chances are very good that your victory will include your husband. The OW is soon-to-be Street Mire. You are already a QUEEN. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Loving Boundaries, I just had to say, I understood completely (even the first time through) what you were trying to say the other day about self-care. I also can't help a chuckle thinking of Lem's genuine shock and horror at what he thought you meant. "That's it!!! MB's gone off the deep end this time!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />" Hope the game turned out all right for him. I don't have a clue about that sort of thing. Anyway, just wanted to reassure you that one person, at least, understood what you said. Either that means that I am extremely intuitive and intelligent, or just craz.......never mind. I am extremely intelligent and intuitive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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I never understood what wasn't clear about LB's message. Much ado about nothing. Something was in the air that day, I got a little depressed and haven't quite shaken it off, completely independent of MB.
Neak, I like your verses, but of course I would.
LS, I couldn't sleep and thought of you all night. Your husband knows you're strong. If I were to ask him to come sit with me and the boys (if I were you) I would not use the term frightened, but "overwhelmed". If he's like my husband he'll just say, "it'll be ok" in response to the word frightened.
Using Overwhelmed is more of the term to a confidante, not that you're asking him to fix it, but that you are remembering your lives together, all your happy memories, and you just never in a million years could have predicted things would turn out this way. You might even have some really meaningful pictures with you when you talk about this with him, or best, have them out in the house when he comes over.
Looking through our albums together was a real awakener from the fog for my husband.
[color:"#39395A"]***Well, it's sort of hard to still wonder if you were consolation prize in the midst of being cherished.***
- Noodle[/color]
Devastation Day: Aug 26, 2004
[color:"#2964d8"]"I think we have come out on the other side... meaning that we love each other more than we ever did when we loved each other most." [/color]
[color:"#7b9af7"]
~Archibald MacLeish[/color]
Very Happily Married
Me FBS - 44
Him FWS - 51
I married him all over again, May 07
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Everyone. Bless you.
After my last post, I decided to take a break and a bubble bath. I really wanted to connect with God. I have had TWO experiences when I really felt like I could hear God speaking to me (please don't cart me off to the loony bin, hearing voices). Just this sense---I'm really upset, then suddenly there is this very sure, very clear "thought" that comes from nowhere...but it feels like it comes from inside me. It occurred to me that God is in me...geez...I tell my kids this all the time...God is everywhere and in everything beautiful...but I never really THOUGHT about the implications of that...that he's in me! God's message won't come from the outside, it comes from within!
I'm SURE some of you know what I mean???? Please tell me so? Anyone else ever have that experience? Or should I call the loony bin and ask them to send a cart?
Anyway, it didn't work last night. I think I was not in the right frame of mind. I was concentrating so hard on being open to his words, open to his message for me. I don't think concentrating works. I think it just happens...not randomly, like when I'm sitting at my desk engrossed in a project at work...but when desperation and confusion take hold.
But it was okay that I didn't hear God last night. I'm sure he was busy with other things (does anyone else ever feel guilty for asking God for something when there is SOOOO much suffering in the world?). And just soaking and trying to be so open to his word brought me some peace.
One thing I was struggling with...I cannot pray for RT. I feel such hatred. So I asked God to forgive me for that and asked for the ability to get to the place where I don't feel that hatred.
cc1: I KNOW what you mean about we Catholics and our standard prayers! I was always blown away by people who could just conjure up these prayers off the top of their head. But NOW I can do it! But still...I LOVE the Hail Mary. It is such an mother/woman/gracious prayer.
Did I ever tell you guys about wht I did in jail? There I was, probably 12 hours in holding, with six other women...I think they were all sleeping, which I could NOT do. I pulled two teeny tiny threads from my sweater and made a cross with them. Probably a 1/2 inch long. I laid in on the concrete beside me and began saying the Hail Mary. I must have repeated it 1000 times.
I love the Bible verses. I am reading the Bible now for the first time, but I've been doing NT, so your verses give me some direction for new places to explore.
I believe I will--tonight when he drops off the boys--ask WT to come in and help me out. I AM overwhelmed...I like that word as well...it FITS. Tonight is garbage night. I'm sure he'd be willing to take care of that for me. I'll think of a few other things as well. Just be very honest, "WH, I am so tired. I am so overwhelmed by everything, I just feel defeated. There's just TOO MUCH with the boys and the house and EVERYTHING. Would you please help me? I need you."
LB: I also "got" what you were sayng and didn't quite understand SourBoy's reaction. Self-care has been essential to me, and I think is REQUIRED if one is Plan Aing because of all the energy it requires.
KA: I did ready your post the other night, but yes, your point kind of got lost in all the drama.
I'm going to be late if I don't get in the shower NOW.
AGAIN: God bless you all. Thank you. What friends I have.
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Good morning, LS.
I am sorry you were feeling poorly last night.
today will be a better day. I liked Pep'd idea of telling him you need him.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Take care of yourself.
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My spiritual response to you this morning: What was most important to me during that difficult time and even now was my FAITH. I would read Jesus' words in the New Testament. [color:"red"] "I will never leave you or forsake you" [/color] I feel like HE takes care of me like a FATHER..MY HEAVENLY FATHER..so I don't feel like he's INSIDE OF ME. I feel like he CARRIES ME. However, I'm certainly not knocking or criticizing your experience of the LORD..just sharing mine. I also have felt DIRECT TOUCHES from the HOLY SPIRIT. I've learned to LISTEN FOR HIS VOICE...so if you're loony, then I'm also loony..we can be loony together... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Also, as I told you before, I love spirituals..I'm Southern and Baptist...another one of my favorites.."His eye is on the sparrow and I know HE watches me".... One thing I was struggling with...I cannot pray for RT. I feel such hatred. So I asked God to forgive me for that and asked for the ability to get to the place where I don't feel that hatred. According to my belief, RT is not of God..she is consumed with evil. It is up to her to repent and to ask God for forgiveness or she will suffer HIS vengeance. She has turned away from the LORD. Pray that she will seek salvation...but mainly continue to Pray for YOURSELF and YOUR FAMILY. Both your husband and RT will need to turn to GOD themselves FIRST. LATER.... (((((SIS)))))
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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