Oh, yes, OW had a few things to say to him about this little meeting.

Yes, indeed.

I can pick out the things she must have told him to say...

THESE...








~ No man calls a woman letting him know she wants him "groveling"...but an OW would.







He sure was.

YOU DID GREAT!!!

OW is VERY upset. She wanted your WH to discourage you from doing what you have been.

WH is VERY conflicted!

OW most certainly didn't tell him to ask THIS....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

but then said (with pride, almost?) that he wants what's best for him, too.

Boy can I relate to this statement...."what about what would make me happy" is what I heard. SELFISH. They are in a very selfish, self-centered place, not unlike the OP they hooked up with.

Keep at it Sis, you are breaking through. Pour it on thick at every opportunity until you decide to Plan B. When he gets the Plan B letter about preserving the love you have remaining for him, he will panic. Even tho I went to Plan FU, the panic my WH exhibited was so evident and heartening.

I seriously talked to God today on your behalf. I know He listens and takes action in ways you can never expect.

How are YOU feeling about the interaction after some time has passed?

good job, LilSis. He does sound foggy though. But that is par for the course. One time when I was talking to my WH, and said something about us being married, he replied, "We're NOT married". I was stunned and just looked at the ground.

In his fog, he believed that we weren't married!!!!

However the things you said to him will get through the fog. In a pea soup brain, it takes several days, but they will get through.

He asked that...right after coming downstairs after saying good-bye to the boys. He asked if I had asked my IC about what it would take for me and for him to work things out.

MY take is that he keeps thinking that my IC will tell me that WH is a chump and should be promptly curb-kicked. That's why WH keeps wanting to know if I've told IC this or that.

But...WH doesn't know my IC. My IC sees how much I have grown, sees my strength, and knows that I have to do what I have to do and he supprts me. We talked about setbacks that i might have...but I know now that I am capable of coming back from some REALLY desperate circumstances. So we're good.

Nope, I believe RT wants WH to discourage Lilsis from trying.

~ Marsh

I keep thinking that statemet about "That Language" is going haunt him.
A some point (hopefully tonight) he will think about it and realize how absurd he is.

I am always amazed at how you manage to keep your calm.
I wanted to jump thru the computer and strangle him atleast twice.

Sis,

Some things hit me with what he said. I may be off base, but I'm in the human communications field, and I see a couple of things that stand out here.

First, he said, "I'm not coming home." I find the choice of word "home" quite interesting. He didn't say, "I'm not coming back" which would indicate that there is another place he views as "home". He still views the place YOU are as "home". Communicatively significant.

Another thing I see is that I think he has moved to the fence in terms of what he views his role as. When you first started this thread, he was completely unwilling to participate in household events/chores, and was not wanting a role in the parenting. All of a sudden, he has moved on that front to where he is telling you he WANTS and NEEDS a role, talks of "custody", etc. This is also communicatively significant, in that it is indicative of an underlying message of his feeling separated from his sense of family, being a part of the daily events of his sons' lives, and the decisions and goings-on in the house. The chores he has volunteered for are also indicative of the attempt to reclaim some turf here, do you see that?

The idea that he is "always available" was interesting from a communications perspective. This statement in itself was telling you to CALL HIM MORE OFTEN with regard to the boys. There can really be no other interpretation, when it comes down to it. So, do just that. It was his specific instruction - he asked to be called, to be included. This is a request from him not only to be NEEDED, but to be CALLED UPON when needed. He LIKES to help out - and once you opened the door to him for that, he practically ran back in to do it. So let him in, and throw that door open ALL THE WAY.

Finally, I agree that the comment about your talking to the IC about "what it would take" to put things back together could be read two different ways. He may mean that YOU don't understand how hard it will be, and he is trying to tell YOU that YOU will not be able to stand the emotional stress of what it would take to do that - and that you should talk to the counselor about this and get some advice about "not setting yourself up" for that kind of pain. HOWEVER - - - there is a flip side to this in terms of communication. Clearly, he has given thought to reconciliation, and "what it would take" to put this back together. HE KNOWS how hard it would be, because by telling YOU about it, he reveals his own musings on the subject. The crack is there, Sis. This one sentence tells you that not only has he thought about it, he has certainly explored the difficulties that the two of you would have to hurdle, and ALSO given consideration to the amount of stress that he thinks you would go through in reconciliation and rebuilding. The underlying message I see in the statement is this:

He is concerned that rebuilding the marriage may not be possible because he has done too much emotional damage, and that you will not be able to forgive it all.


The good news is - Plan A works to make him believe that you CAN make it through. AND, your response was great. You told him you loved him, that it was worth fighting for, that you were stronger and had grown. Your response told him that you not only acknowlege his fears, you ALSO were aware of them, considered them, and felt strong enough to rise above it all and try again - HE WAS WORTH IT.

The admiration in that statement goes far above anything affairland has to offer. You indeed have the whole package, because you love him in spite of his failings. And he knows he can't continue to be "Mr. Perfect" for RT forever....because while she is playing that role for him, he is also playing a role for her and it is tiring too!


This conversation may not have been what you had planned, but it may be what Someone had planned (capitalization intended).


SB

Think your WH would go with you to talk to your IC, and the IC could sort of plant some seeds for trying...? I think that talking to SH (in order to help ME get over things) is what really started clearing some of the fog for my WH....

Just a thought....?

Fantastic post, SB!

~ Marsh

Why thanks, Marsh.

shucks


SB

SB I agree with MM that was a great post, but one other thought occurred to me regarding all his references to her IC especially the nonsensical "that language" remark.. and that is Rat Turd is painting LS as 'off her rocker'..

And that's actually a good thing, because RT doesn't have face to face dealings with the Rational LS, and WH does.

I do think that it's much too early to share IC time with hubby, but I also believe that you, LS, have to assure him that your counselor thinks you've got it together fine and supports your thought processes in regards to your wants and needs to be true to your personal integrity.

{{{LS}}}

I LOVE that you said this to him.

~ Marsh

School Bus:

I second the thoughts of Marsh. Terrific post!

And you did great too, LilSis. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You must have met with him for at least an hour. And you still didn't talk about scheduling.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good, Very Good.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Now ignore us until the morning and spend time with the boys and get some rest!

Right on!

THAT'S exactly what I think she's trying to do too.

And I agree, it IS a good thing.

~ Marsh

Sis,

It's okay if RT is painting you as "off your rocker". WH is seeing you as hurt, and admiring him, and needing him, and wanting him.

He already knows RT wrote that letter with intent to hurt you. Now, if she's saying things like you are "crazy", it will make him feel a need to defend you - whether he will be able to pinpoint it or not, and whether he expresses it or not. Just a sense within him will feel the need to defend you. I say this because you describe him as the hero type. That's good for you - because he does see the REAL Sis, and he KNOWS you aren't losing it - he knows exactly how you feel (you've told him) and exactly WHY you feel it (because he has told you in this conversation that he DOESN'T want to hurt you and that he knows he has!). All in your favor.

I agree that maybe soon, not right away, but soon, you might want to ask WH to talk with SH with you - but you might want to make another appoint with SH first to talk about where things are right now. He might see lots that we laypeople don't!

SB

I agree with that too. I think RT definitely wants to discourage Lil Sis from trying...Since WH is so fogged out at this point, it just seemed (from my perspective) that he is trying to convince himself that if Lil Sis stops trying it will lessen his guilt over what he has done to his family...nonetheless I do think RT planted that seed and has definitely influenced his thinking.

INTERESTING...

WH just stopped by with the stuff from Sam's. He was still out in the truck, handing stuff in thru the window, when I asked him to come in because DS11 wanted to show him something he had made out of balloons.

He comes in the back door as I am putting things in the fridge.

WH walks in, holding up a box with an HD antenna: Just like I won't read anything into what you do, don't you read anything into what I do.
LS: Ooohh!! hey, cool!
WH's walking thru the kitchen and thru the dining room, towards the attic where the kids are...and the new TV. I quickly follow him and snag him in the living room, where it's dark.
LS: So if you won't read anything into what I do, does that mean I get to do whatever I want?
I reach up and start kissing his neck, then on his cheek. He snickers. I get a little TOOO close to his mouth. "No." But he's laughing. So I leap up a leap up and wrap my legs around him. He's laughing and says, "Nothing."
LS (I let go and laugh) WHAT? (all pretend insulted)

We go up to the attic and he futzes around with the antenna and he's not happy with it...decides to get a better one for us. This one's going back. At one point I tell him, "I can not read anything into stuff anytime you want!" He thought that was funny, too. I commented about how cozy it was up in the attic, asked him if he like the TV I chose, etc.

We came downstairs, he's headed to the door. We are both smiling and jokey thru this exchange:
LS: I'm insulted. "Nothing??"
WH: It's not about that.
LS: Well, what am I supposed to do for sex?
WH: I don't even want to go there.
LS: You don't have to go there, just give it some thought. (WH laughs, opens the door.)
LS: Love you!
WH: are you going to plug the car in?
LS: Is it going to get cold?
WH: Cold enough. (I didn't realize it was 15 degrees out) I'll plug it in for you.
LS: Thanks!
WH plugs it in and then gets in the truck. He passes the empty soup container from earlier in to me through the window.
LS: Did you eat it?
WH: Yes...tasty.
LS: Needed salt.
WH: Yeah...I put it on the top and didn't mix it in.
I give a little air kiss, he smiles and he backs out.

Wow!! He wanted to do something nice...even after the "big talk." Guess it wasn't so scary after all.

schoolbus has made very profound observations (brava)

revisit that post from time to time

lemme spare you some time

this is what has run this entire thing in the ditch ~~~> OW's H has left her

if OWH had not left his wife, I guarantee your H (not the WH) would have his head pulled halfway outta his azz by now

BUT, the idiot OWH had to go and leave RT ... and this lonely firghtened RT is now YOUR husband's responsibility (according to RT) ... BELIEVE ME there is NO WAY RT has not played this card ...

"You can't go back ... *sniff* .... *pout* .... I left my husband because you promised we'd be together ... you cannot break that promise to me"

>cue music<

"What am I supposed to do? You cannot leave me alone and go back to your family. That life is over, you life is with me now."

and what your BRILLIANT PLAN A is doing is .... mucking up her story of "happily ever after"

whatever you do ... do NOT give up hope

you are doing an excellent job

rest up
that was quite a battle

Pep

PS ... no matter what happends do not speak of RT when with WH ... it's ALL about YOU and HIM

chances are excellent ~they~ do almost nothing but talk ABOUT YOU when they are together ... which is a wonderful wedge to shove up her butt

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

OMG!

Lilsis!!!!

Honey, he's leaning over that fence now!

Lapping up what you are offering...and looking for MORE!


~ Marsh