Oh...you've got to know...

ALL of us...not one of us question WHY you are doing this.

Those of us on the other side of recovery know that there is a redeeming quality that your wh has, otherwise you would've thrown in the towel a long time ago.

Whatever that redeeming quality is for YOU, it's golden to us.

Capice?

[color:"red"]LMAO [/color]

I second what Mimi said about SF. Be a boy scout, in whatever sense you choose to take that. Emotionally, or accessorically.

You see, it's a much smaller distance than you might think between the "meaningless" catch of a leaping wife who then wraps her legs around him, and "meaningless" smooches almost on his lips, to "meaningless" sex.

That's not a 100% guarantee of anything, but I'll bet my boots you've got him thinking about it. Torn between drooling over you, and wondering if there was anything else you were trying to imply with your question of "what am I supposed to do about sex?" Thoughts of you will make him smile, thoughts of you with someone else will make him crazy. (er)

I had a thought that may be way off base. Experts?

Since the whole sentencing/letter thing seems to have caused a lot of boat rocking in A land, how about this…

When do you need to do your community service? What if you could start it now and make sure WH watches the kids while you do it?

Here are the positives I see:
Keeps it in WH’s mind
Gives RT all kinds of opportunity to LB
Gets it over with now, so WHEN the fog lifts and H returns home he doesn’t have to face yet another painful reminder of guilt that could undermine recovery efforts

Negatives:
You don’t need any more stress right now
Too much guilt on WH’s part could backfire?

Reactions, anyone?

LS: Well, what am I supposed to do for sex?
WH: I don't even want to go there.

Reminder: You are a sexual human being!!

Well done! Let's hope this haunts him for days!!!!

PGA

well, that's an interesting idea.
i agree that you don't need the added stress right now.........but,why not atleast bring it up w/ WH to dicuss his thoughts on when would be best to get it over with.

I won't be meeting with the PO until Feb. 7. I have no idea what comm. service entails...although at a previous job I would occassionally get CS workers in to do different tasks...data entry, etc. I don't recall how the process works.

Few things today...
I called earlier in the day to ask if he was serious about doing things around the house. "Well...within reason..." was his response. I'm thinking he doesn't remember that he offered to vacuum. I asked about hooking up the TV and he said fine. I also asked about chaning the oil and any other maintenance needed on the car. He wanted to know the mileage which I didn't now. He told me he would call later in the day about taking the boys sledding.

When he called early in the afternoon to let me know he was on his way, I asked cheerfully if I could come along. He said no, which I left at that. He arrived with a new HD antenna. This one doesn't work either. He is baffled...only thing he can think of is the amount and density of insulation in the attic blocks the signal. Being up so high should offer a great signal.

He and the boys left to go sledding. I was feeling a little blue...missing spending time with my family. A couple of hours later he called to tell me they were on their way, I asked if he would mind picking up a gallon of milk on their way. He agreed, but I think a little reluctantly. As soon as we hung up, I called back and told him that it was okay, he didn't need to do that, sort of apologetically. He said it was no problem, they just pulled in to a gas station...didn't seem to mind.

When they arrived, WH and the boys came in, unloaded their stuff...WH pretty much turned right around and left. I mouthed "love you" and he smiled that "lips together" half grimace and gave a quick nod. The boys and I waved from inside as he backed out.

I texted him:
"Thanks for the milk! Saved the day. I missed having fun with you all. (sad face emoticon)"

Even though I know this is all working itself out in its own way, according to God's plan...it's still hard, isn't it? I really just want to hug him...I just want to feel loved by him. If I could just have my H back for an HOUR...heck, 10 minutes. When I see him, it just hurts...watching him come into the house, seeing him in the house, where he belongs, tickling DS8, standing like he always stands, flipping through the mail, so familiar...and then he leaves. And very likely...goes to her. He's been gone so long--emotionally as well as physically--that sometimes it feels like he probably doesn't even remember what it was like to BE a family.

Does a WH remember what is was like to love his wife? Because he did...I know he did, very much. I screwed it up SOO badly that I drove that all out of him. I'm so sorry for that. I've asked him in the past to forgive me...he said yesterday he did...but I don't think he really knows what that means. I think to him it's just words, not a feeling. (and I sure don't want to go down the whole forgiveness thing again...I'm just saying)

If God could just speed up the timeline here that would be fine by me.

On a lighter note....Tonight I have a party with my work friends. I got a sitter (a big deal to me who never got sitters...a HUGE gripe for WH)!! I asked WH first if he wanted to spend the evening with the boys, but he has to work in the AM and declined. I wanted to tell him today that I got a sitter for tonight...the one I would use when he decides to take me up on my offer (remember when I gave him the nightie I told him that he could name the time/place and I'd get a sitter?). No opportune time...the kids were always around and they are so nosy...so I left the message on VM....couched in terms of a courtesy call to let him know his children would be with a sitter tonight.

I gotta think that will score me two teeny tiny points...1.5 for getting a sitter, and 0.5 for the reminder of my "offer." (which he probably doesn't remember...)

Why do I get on here to post something quickly and end up with these big long-winded exercises in self-discovery?

I'd have to go back PAGES to give correct credit...but is was someone here who came up with the "What am I supposed to do about sex?" question. Three gold stars to that smart lady! (I'm betting on the fairer sex coming up with that one) Stand up a take a bow, please, so we can all applaud you!! No blushing....come on...you know who you are....

That's such a keeper that it ought to be added to the Orchid posts with all the RB ideas.

Actually, most of the stuff from yesterday came from here...either specific responses to give, how to "be," points to emphasize...and having knowledge of what awful things he was likely to say help shield me from hurt. You trained this soldier well, generals!

I think it was me who said that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

If it wasn't me...I sure did think it a LOT.

Say, this site is great for help in figuring out the HD world!

http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/index.php?

First of all, you didn't 'drive his love for you out of him'. Nonsense. His endorphin-soaked brain just isn't functioning in a normal fashion.

Secondly, as I was taking my <non designer> dog for a long walk after getting totally grossed out by a thread earlier, I felt this ~niggle~ ~niggle~ ~niggle~ about your situation. Something was just bugging me, so I went back and read your first 3 or 4 pages and found some very encouraging things there. Things that I hadn't remembered. He's actually been to the point of asking her for 'space' before. He just sort of drifted into being a cop. He's felt controlled, and maybe a little angry at himself for not being more proactive. I just don't see anyway he's going to be able to tough out a relationship with this controlling, spending, bossy woman.

I'm starting to wonder if a longer Plan A shouldn't be considered if you can keep up the positive mental attitude. Seriously. He's just now starting to take a look at his real 'family'. YOU. THE BOYS. It just seems like the Feb thing is coming up way too fast. I'd be interested in the Plan A Mavins have to say, because that's not much more than a couple of weeks away, and it seems like he hasn't seen enough of 'his family' cheerfully and lovingly existing at home without him.

Is there anything you can do (in a non LBing way, of course)...to put off this April D date? Anything?

Sheesh. Have to go. More thoughts later or tomorrow.

Thank you, fellow cat-lover! I bow to you, smart lady! <<<applause>>>

IT WAS ME, NIA..and then you AGREED with me...

I NEED LOVE..I NEED LOVE...

Mimi, taking a bow...

I know I came up with it because it is EXACTLY what I said to my H so I shared it with you because it was such a WINNER for me...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sis,

Again with the communication thing. Sorry, I'm in the business and can't help myself.

I want to talk a little more on the sentence where he asks you about what it would take for you and "for me" to work things out.

I talked earlier about the fact that he had thought about your end of things, your emotions, etc.

Now, I want to explain a little about why he may have put himself in this sentence.

He is looking to you to verify to him that you understand what it would take for him to try to return to the marriage. For him, he would have to publicly admit his mistake - and for a hero type this is very big, for a guy seeking admiration it is also very big. Internally, he KNOWS that if he were to return, all of the people in his life would then either say something, or think something, about his "mistake", fall from grace, or whatever one might call it. (On this issue, see discussion about the "language" sentence to follow.) Not to mention the fact that he will feel responsible for the breakup of RT's marriage (puke here - she has her own responsibilities! - I digress). The question he is asking you with regard to what it would take for "him" to start over with you is not only the forgiveness factor and your emotional factors, but also consideration of what he would have to face - that is, loss of face. I don't know how MB approaches this aspect of the recovery, but this may be one hurdle with him that could be harder, because of his need for admiration, sense of morality (yes, I know...), and his sense of responsibility in general as a person.


With regard to his comment about your using the word "adultery" and his saying don't use "that language". People utilize definitions of words internally in a variety of ways. Definitions are not fixed, they are context-dependent, and malleable (although Webster would not like this, see the post above with the word "accessorially"!!! for a prime example). They can ascribe definitions broadly or narrowly, depending on the context in which they may need to use the word. In WH's case here, the likelihood is that he has narrowed the definition of adultery due to the conditions he needs it to be - not an uncommon practice in many socially inappropriate situations (consider, for example, Clinton's remark about not having "sex" - he narrowed the definition to fit his needs).

I talked a little above as an intro to this; he has in his head and life a conflict/situation going on which he has labeled, but has chosen a word other than "adultery" for this conflict/situation. That label, for whatever reason, cannot be "adultery" in his mind. So when you used it, he had to reject it because his mind had already narrowed the "adultery" definition to EXCLUDE his own situation - does that explain it well enough?



Do I have a strange enough job, or what?



My instinct is to say to him, when the time is right, of course, that everyone in his life already understands that he has made mistakes. And that everyone would support him in returning home and trying again.

I would try to tell him that heroes do the right thing, even when it is the hardest thing - even when others make comments against them - even when it means they have to swallow their pride - because that is what makes them admirable, that is what makes them heroes.

SB

RS: Are you channeling SH?

That is exactly what he suggested. Keep up Plan A as long as possible and try to hold off the D. Prior to talking to him, mid-Feb. was my target, but he said go as long as I could go. Last week I wasn't thinking I could go any longer, but we'll see. It's all in the attitude and how many kicks in the face I sustain from WH and RT. I will keep it up as long as I can. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

On SH advice, I also told my attorney that I wanted this to drag out as long as possible. He said in that case, it could go a year, year and a half...unless WH is pushing it. From what FIL tells MIL....I do not believe WH will push it. FIL thinks that RT is going to do a full court press once she is final (any day now) and WH will feel totally cornered. So MAYBE Mr. Passive/"fall into things" WH might just avoid committing to her by not pushing our D. Did that make sense??

Just to be clear...RT is spending, bossy, etc. But she is EVIL and conniving. She will NOT let WH see her truth. She will have all kinds of rationalizations for her behavior, and he is so whipped he can't see her for what she is. He is SOO wrapped around her finger that she had me arrested and sent to jail...which horrifies him, makes him WEEP...and yet there he is...still right by her side. Bewitched. He cannot escape her nor does he want to.

I agree. A longer Plan A is ideal. WH (or rather H) knows what my truth is...especially after yesterday. He knows why I am doing this. He knows how I feel. He knows the worst has been done to me and I am still in the fight, stronger and...bigger somehow (methaphorically). He knows I'm not giving up. SOOOO....if I went to Plan B too soon I think H would give up. I need to keep feeding H, keep giving him the strength and courage and reason to fight for himself. If I turned out my light, how would he know how to find his way home?

oops...sorry.
I should have known it was you, Mimi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
like I said, i know I though it a Lot.

it's one of those things that really bugs me about wayward spouses.....they think they are the only spouse w/ a sex drive.

I am staying off here for the most part... but I still keep up and wish you nothing but the best.
You did NOT drive that all out of him... these things were and are his choice. You're a beacon of light for your WH and he would be a fool not to see that he has a gem in you. Hang in there.... you made a lot of progress yesterday and while you would like to be hitting the finish line today... you are at least headed in the right direction.

As Shrek said... "That'll do Donkey." Good job... stay positive.

RS:

No assistance with the HD. That is WH's to figure out, not LilSis'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Remember, the white knight with the HD antenna.... Ok, maybe a black/white striped knight.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I already know what's wrong, but I'm keeping it to myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

LilSis:

Have to agree with MEDC on this one.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So interesting...wish I had more time to process but I've got to go so I'll have to read it more carefully upon my return. I actually DID SAY THIS TO HIM ONCE:

"Do you know that if you decide to do the right thing you would have all KINDS of people cheering you on and helping you?"

I had even told him about a "friend" who was a FWH who would be willing to talk to him. That might have been way to preachy at the time, and it was pre-Plan A.

Sis,

You mentioned that when you were flirting, around the time you jumped up and wrapped your legs around him, that he said something to the effect of "that's not what it is about".

At some point, it would be good to revisit this with him, if you get the chance. This statement was probably an opening to you that he wants to talk more. I think he has something to say, but you didn't ask him what he meant (or did you?). If you do get the chance, go back to this point with him, and try to get him to tell you what he meant. When he does, just listen. Tell him thanks - whatever it is he says - just say thanks for letting you know. I think he has something to say and is looking for an opening.


You could say, "You know, the other day, you said something that I have been wondering about. You said 'that's not what it's about'. What did you mean when you said that?"

Of course, he will need to be alone with you, feeling safe, and be your H, not WH, when you ask. I don't know if you will get the chance or not. He might say "I don't remember that" if he isn't feeling good about it, or has re-thought himself on it, though. But it's worth a shot.