I am assuming. I really don't want to talk to RT's H. He is an attorney, and filed right away (in July) and they were already working out the settlement details back in September. I assume he's moving right along. He was not conflicted about it...he was ready, and clearly, so is RT. So if the six month minimum is adhered to, mid-January would be the final. Give a month for delays...mid-Feb. But I can't imagine either of them delaying.


Nope. They are snow birds. They have their time frame pretty well set...maybe a little flexibility of a week, MAYBE two if I were desperate. It would be a play it by ear thing.


I could invite, but he would say no. Remember, he was ADAMANT: "I am not coming home!" Maybe much later, shortly before Plan B, when the confluence is beginning to build, but not now.

As Pep and Mel know, feeling "SHUT OUT" was SOOOO my H's issue....and it really PAINED him..he remains sensitized to ANY INKLING that he is being LEFT OUT so I have to LOUDLY PROCLAIM AND SHARE any decision-making regarding even our GROWN SONS..

That all being said to evidence my continued personal experience with this issue, I want to share that Steve Harley told me that I REALLY, REALLY had to WORK ON THIS..He wanted me to demonstrate that I was no longer SELF-RIGHTEOUS and Steve even told me that I was "WRONG"..I know YUCK... in not sharing parenting decisions with my H...

STEVE told me to start to use the phrase: "I WANT TO WORK TOGETHER WITH YOU AS A TEAM".. This word "TEAM" meant a lot to my H as Steve also shared it with him. He liked it that Steve GOT THIS...how much feeling SHUT OUT as a PARENT HURT him..

So I continue to use the term TEAM in discussions regarding our planning about things..suggesting that you add this to your communications with him along with HERO

RT will NEVER be able to REALLY join with him in a PARENTING TEAM regarding YOUR CHILDREN/ "OUR CHILDREN" (in your discussions with him)...That's the message that you want to start communicating...

The cunning OW in my case knew the importance of this to my H so her plan was for him to join with her in raising her daughter...stealing my H to be the F of her daughter..YUCK..that FAILED MISERABLY during the PLAN B..turns out they "HATED" each other..DUH...

I betcha she has this BRADY BUNCH FANTASY going on..YUCK...

Pep

poetry

Another of WH's favorites...Brown's Descent (Frost again). He read it every year in January.

I'll copy the passage about Brown seeing his home atop the slippery slope that he just slid down...and deciding to make his way back up....

A little inspiration...

Sis:

Posting at the same time again..

You may have missed my post just prior to yours...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LilSis:

I want you to not assume here:



You need to talk to RT H about this. Anything WH says is garbage.

Why?

Because if I am an Attorney, and my W was out screwing around, I would never "move right along" Because "moving right along" means that RT will probably get more spousal support/house/etc than if I was to drag it out some. Understand?

He can defend himself, and he does not incur legal fees to do so, but RT DOES, to get what she feels is HERS.

Play out this dynamic. RT may be alot farther away from D than you think. You need to know, for sure. Because if the D is immninent, pressure on WH increases to make good on whatever promises he might have made to RT. And if it is not, then RT is in limbo, and NOT creating pressure on H. And that changes what you should be doing and your timeframes.

And you can delay your D as much as possible.

She DOES have the Brady Bunch fantasy going on. Back in my Pre-Plan A LBing days, I would often throw that in his face. "What are you going to be, the Brady Bunch? You think our boys are going to like being the ones on the OUTSIDE while you are the live-in dad to their former FRIENDS?" BARF.


This is RIGHT ON. This is why, when we met on Thursday, I kept saying to him, "What do you want to do about this? Because I am at a loss here, and we need to make some decisions about our children." (Which we never got to, because he cannot acknowledge that what is best for the boys is that he return to his family) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> His solution is to "let everything work itself out." (translation: do nothing, because doing anything in the boy's best interest would involved ending his A)

I am making a conscious effort to draw him into that decision-making. Yesterday, I forwarded a copy of a 10-page creative writing assignment that DS11 did, with a little commentary. Yesterday and this AM, informing him about the babysitting situation. Keep him in the LOOP about EVERYTHING CHILDREN-RELATED. Make him the EQUAL PARTNER that he felt he was not.

Use of the word "TEAM" as per your suggestion will make that even more explicit...thus better to cut through the fog-addled mind.

ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL!!!

THIS IS YOUR BEST WEAPON!!!

HE WILL LOVE THIS!!!

She will want to argue against this but can't risk seeming UNCARING about YOUR CHILDREN..which of course she is...

This is not from WH. This is from RT H, when we last spoke in September. At that point, he and RT had at that time pretty much worked out the settlement stuff. He was willing to provide spousal support ("rehabilitative" gag) so she could go back to school and get re-certified to teach. He is a pansy...hate to say...nice guy and all...but he DID NOT AND NEVER WOULD FIGHT. He told me he wanted to be "fair." He didn't even talk to RT about his discomfort with RT/WH "friendship" even though he was VERY uncomfortable about it. He was AFRAID of RT, I think.


I REALLY think it's close. I will check with MIL to see if WH has mentioned anything to FIL about it. Is there a way to find out through public records? I DO NOT like talking to RT H. He always makes me feel badly...brings me down...he's so certain about RT and WH having a future together. UGH.


Got it covered. I have been clear with my attorney about it.

Reactions, LG?

I REALLY think you can make up alot of lost ground by focusing here.

Ask yourself why you shut him out. Did you do it b/c you were disapproving of him? Believing your way was right, and his wrong?

This is the one area where he will see and feel the biggest change in you and your attitude....trusting him to do right by your boys.

I also think you might want to consider examining your beliefs about DS8 and his relationship w/ his father.

I've seen where you have "corrected" WH about his behavior w/ regards to his actions (or non-actions) towards DS8. (Like when you directed your H to come down to his eye level, and your H refused to do it.)

You aren't scoring points in admiration when you do this.

~ Marsh

So RIGHT ON..

I've LEARNED to NEVER CRITICIZE my H. It's like a STAB in the HEART to men who crave ADMIRATION.

It's OK to SPEAK YOUR OWN TRUTH, knowing that this is YOUR OPINION and who says that YOU ARE RIGHT.

I've further learned that my H has sooo much more understanding and kwowledge regarding the NEEDS AND WANTS of BOYs..

Believe it or not, Steve encouraged me to STEP BACK and to let my H take more of the lead in the PARENTING...

I will also share this. I used to think that my H favored our oldest son and that our YS was hurt by this. I used to point out to him how he needs to give YS more attention, etc.

Guess what I discovered just recently. Our YS is the MOST LIKE HIM, PERSONALIY-WISE...They are BOTH EMOTIONALLY SENSITIVE and our OS is more TOUGH...VERY INTERESTING...

Mimi:
Marsh and Mimi are right on here. My top need is admiration and criticism, even in the form of correction, is a HUGE lovebuster.


Admiration

If you have the need for admiration, you may have fallen in love with your spouse partly because of his or her compliments to you. Some people just love to be told that they are appreciated. Your spouse may also have been careful not to criticize you because criticism may hurt you deeply if you have this need.

Many of us have a deep desire to be respected, valued and appreciated by our spouse. We need to be affirmed clearly and often. There's nothing wrong with feeling that
Learn to meet the need of Admiration
way. Even God wants us to appreciate Him.

Admiration is one of the easiest needs to meet. Just a word of appreciation, and presto, you've just made somebody's day. On the other hand, it's also easy to be critical. A trivial word of rebuke can set some people on their heels, ruining their day and withdrawing love units at an alarming rate.

Your spouse may have the power to build up or deplete his or her account in your Love Bank with just a few words of admiration or criticism. If you can be effected that easily, be sure to add admiration to your list of important emotional needs.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_ad.html

Marsh:
I understand the bigger picture here. At the same time, this will be somewhat of a stuggle for me. Some of WH's parenting IS wrong..he can be verbally abusive...REALLY shouting at the boys in an intimidating and frightening manner. His parents have commented on it as well, witnessing it first-hand...as has my own mom...so it's not just my Miss Perfect getting pissy.

I think this is where being a cop for 15 years comes in...because he wasn't always like this. He has gotten so accustom to (or expecting) people responding to him in a certain way that he forgets he's just dealing with little boys...his OWN little boys...who need his love and unconditional acceptance.

He can show REMARKABLE insensitivity to the boys. Just cluelessness in how to appropriatly relate. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that throughout the A, he has disengaged from us as a family, and put himself in more of a "friendly uncle" role. So when a FATHER is needed, he doesn't know how to respond and gets frustated.

What's also very sad for me is remembering how WH would interact with RT's youngest son when we would do things together as a families. He would act so delighted around that little boy (two years younger than DS8), pick him up, toss him over his shoulder, tickle him...meanwhile...I would watch DS8's face just fall. Literally...just droop.

It just haunts me, Marsh.

So if I seem a little harsh in that area, it's not just me being overly sensitive or critical...there's some real damage that has been done. In the past as well as now, by leaving...

Any advice on how to deal with my feelings about this is very welcome...because it does distress me a great deal. I want to be sensitive to WH as a parent and to encourage him to step into that role--not shut him out--but he has shown real disregard in the past and as a mom it is hard to sit back. This may sound judgemental, but he's not really intuitive when it comes to dealing with them EMOTIONALLY.

If there is anything you can say to help me "get past" that...please share.

LilSis...the Mom.

I also wonder if Lilsis' beliefs (fears) that her WH might not "love" DS8 as much as his other son, might be negatively affecting DS8.

Which is another reason it might be worth examining this belief...

Besides the fact, that her belief might not even be true.

~ Marsh

Missed mimi and Mel's posts...

Just to add....I see your points about the "correcting" thing...that I can certainly do.

But help on the bigger picture?? Or is it all one and the same? Or is it something to be addressed in recovery (assuming we get there?)

some more light romantic ping pong balls

put together a music CD

include old favorites PLUS some new surprising music choices

Pep

LilSis:


This is my point:


I am using the assume not as a perjorative, but as a term of reference.

You last spoke to RT H in SEPTEMBER. Do you remember where you were in September....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Alot has passed since that time. You do not know what actions that RT has taken that could have PI$$ED OFF RT's H.

And we know about WS entitlement around here. RT may believe she deserves MORE than her panty-waist H is giving her.

And you do not have to talk with him long. "What is the status?" "When do you see resolution?" "Why is it taking so long?"

Close with: "Because I am fighting for my H, and I am succeeding." THAT will get back to RT. AND create LB's. More below on this...

RT is feeding your WH lines regarding the status of the D. Even if WH never speaks to you about it. But, if you know from RT H's what is going on, you can correct him if he states differently. (You HAVE the POWER!!) And WH will JUST have to ask RT. And RT will have to squirm out of that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In regards to the close, any thoughts on what it should be like? Because, I do not want LS to burn this important bridge. Mine can be seen as a shot at RT's H.

In regards to this:



The glove state is lousy in this regard. Your Attorney may be able to find out if it's on the docket, however. May cost you $, that's why I would go to RT's H.

And I have not weighed in on the discussion about H being "Shut out" HE was. Pep offered a wonderful convo technique, backed by Marsh, Mimi and the amazing schoolbus to get to the root of this. You all ROCK! I was in this category as well, feeling "shut out" even though my W wished I was helping MORE. Very strange dynamic there....

I do believe that he loves DS8, but has a harder time expressing it. WH and DS11 were SO close when DS11 was a toddler/preschooler because of my work schedule at the time. WH never had that opportunity to bond in that same way with DS8...not even close. Then my dad's death, challenges in our M, then the A...they never had the chance to become as close or to develop the same KIND of relationship that he had with DS11.

And WH knows that DS11 knows about the A...so I SENSE that WH is trying EXTRA hard to give DS11 extra attention...if that makes any sense?? I may be way off....these are ASSUMPTIONS....(i know...)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sis, what you are saying here is TELLING...

Sounds EXACTLY like the former SELF-RIGHTEOUS MIMI...

Although you many think of his parenting as being WRONG, this is YOUR OPINION and is JUDGMENTAL of you..Sorry..

He may think the way that you parent is WRONG...

You are being DISRESPECTFUL of him with this point of view and DISRESPECT cuts way deep into a MAN'S SOUL...

Just like I was telling you the other day and like I tell our boys: YOU MUST ACCEPT YOUR H FOR THE WAY THAT HE IS..

This is where POJA come in during RECOVERY...still indicates the need to read the BASIC CONCEPTS..

Your assignment: Buy HIS NEEDS YOUR NEEDS today..

(Sounds like I'm being blunt this morning because I am rushing...I love ya..I see so much of myself in you...)



It makes me SAD to READ this.. THIS WAS MY MAJOR ERROR AND I WAS SO, SO, WRONG in thinking as you do....

Does this come from somewhere in your own past?

So if this is TRUE of WHO YOUR HUSBAND IS, what are you going to do about it?

You married this man..this is who he is..

It's YOUR JOB to CHANGE HIM..or to ACCEPT HIM?

This is not how your WH comes across to me..

HE SEEMS TO BE A HIGHLY SENSITIVE MAN...

Remember he USED TO BE A LITTLE BOY..

You understand being a BOY better than HIM?

That's what I used to think and feel like I did such a disservice to OUR SONS.

I'm just now trying to right that wrong.

They needed more toughness..more a man's influence and approach in their lives..my H's toughness was out of love..not meant to HURT them as I ASSUMED...