I agree. This strikes at the heart of who he is...H, I mean. It is nice to know that I can be fun and flirty, but to know that I RESPECT him and ADMIRE him as a man AND a father...that's addressing his identity.

p.s. I didn't answer your question, did I? I think it might be better to just have a conversation saying the same thing. That way, if he DOES think your sentiments invalidate your wishes about having the children dragged into his affair, you can address it right there on the spot. That way there is no misunderstanding.

Thank goodness my instincts are right about one thing. So how do I enforce that boundary without being viewed or percieved as challenging his good parenting??

Catch 22. ??

But you DO challenge his parenting if he suggests dragging his own children into his affair. You can't hide that. You simply say that our children will not be exposed to his affair unless it is court ordered or until you are beaten unconscious within an inch of your life. You do not want them to think that affairs are acceptable and exposing them to her would send that message. Exposing his kids to his affair is completely unreasonable and irrational, so don't even try to reason with him.

All this is SOOO confusing, I know...


But right now he is a WH, an alien being, and NOT A GOOD PARENT....

Mainly you are speaking to him about his parenting IN THE PAST and how you WILL WORK TOGETHER AS A TEAM IN THE FUTURE...

I think in reality now he cannot be TRUSTED to made GOOD PARENTING DECISIONS....

Now you really are their only SANE parent...

To Mimi's point, the goal is to:

a) give him credit for past good fathering

b) express your regret for not trusting his parenting

c) praise him for the good things he does TODAY

d) ensure he knows you know that his boys NEED HIM and that you cannot fill his shoes

e) express to him that you will RESPECT his parenting skills in the future

You can do all this without rewarding him for CURRENT bad parenting. It is bad parenting to have an affair, abandon your family and expose your children to your affair. Expressing respect for him does not include all this. And you definitely can do that without sacrificing the best interests of the boys.

Okay...we are all in agreement (Thank God).

So how do I COMMUNICATE that? Maybe it is too much to try to do this in a letter, but I think it is SUCH A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE that it deserves something more substantial than a conversation. Things can be so mis-interpreted or forgotten when they are just spoken.

So...suggested revision to the last paragraph in the above letter:

I know that you love *** and ### as much as I do, and I have complete and total faith in you. I know--without a doubt--that you will do what is right for our boys. I look forward to the two of us doing what is right for our boys TOGETHER as an intact family. In the meantime, I know that you will continue to honor our agreement by not exposing them to people or situations that will give them wrong ideas about marriage, committment, and morality.

(and values and God and vows and self-sacrifice and caring and parenthood and family and trust and honor....) Stop me now.

ok, you need to get Mimi's help on how to convey this diplomatically. This is not my forte. If it were up to me, I would be saying something like: "If you take my boys around that filthy STD ho', I will shoot you." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds PERFECT...unfortunately just saying it will land me right back you-know-where. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"No threatening or assaultive behavior..." yada yada. Like what they did was not assaultive....

Edit to add: Wishing for just a MINUTE that I lived in Texas...

lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Speaking of "assaultive" behavior, do you ever listen to Dr. Harley on the radio? He likens adultery to being RAPED. Adultery very much is an assault. You went to jail because you slapped the OW while she was actively RAPING YOU.

LS, didn't you mention that RT's former neighbor's moved under mysterious circumstances? Do you think it was because of a problem with RT?

this last bit of thread has me thinking of my own situation, I have criticized my WW parenting, to the point of writing her a letter of 15 items that needed to be discussed with her about our girls, at the end I said I will give you a week to respond otherwise I am making the discissions.

Last time we had items like this it took a month to get a response, which involved me sending a letter to my lawyer to send to her lawyer to get her to respond.

Now I wish I was able just to talk to her about the girls but she creates such conflict each and everytime we even bring up the girls.

I would like to hear how this new interaction goes, maybe its something I can use

vr, it sounds like you handled it perfectly correct given the circumstances. When you are dealing with a person who does not USE reason, you can't very well expect to reason with them. Much better to come from a lawyer if it involves protecting your DDs.

LS's goal is to praise him for past parenting while protecting them from current harmful behavior. If your wife won't listen to you, as you say, then your best bet is to facilitate that through your attorney just as you did. We don't have some magic words to give LS to straighten out her H.

Good memory. I was JUST thinking of that this morning. I brought that up once in my pre-Plan A LBing days to WH. His jaw clenched, hard. At the time I thought I might have hit on a sore point.

Yes...RT's "best friend" let's call her T and T's husband, J, lived a couple of houses down. In early spring of 04, VERY shortly before the A began, T and J moved to a new house in the suburbs.

Here were my reasons for suspicion that something might have been going on.

1. The timing. If there was something going on, and T and J moved...RT still has motive but now lacks the opportunity. She would be on the prowl again. Enter WH...ample opportunity.

2. J is a very flirty guy. The kind of guy that makes me uncomfortable...and I can hold my own with guys...but a woman KNOWS where there's that weirdness, right? I would have pegged him as a cheater.

3. Just after T and J moved, a number of "us girls" went out to dinner and a movie. RT, me, T, and a couple of other t-ball moms. During dinner, T joked that J "had a crush on" RT. Again, weirdness for me. How sad, I thought. RT just laughed...like it was no big deal.

4. Later that summer, several hours in to the neighborhood pool party, RT jumps into the pool in her bikini (out of the 40-some people there, she's the only one swimming...yuck). Suddenly, J jumps into the pool, and a minute later he's stripping off his trunks. Niiice.... Then, to my horror, WH jumps in. Thank GOD he keeps his shorts on, but still. Eeew. To me, it seemed like such a "oh, let me rescue you, my adulterous damsel in distress! I must save you from this lecherous beast."

The "woman" is just a skank. Pure and simple. I would LOVE to have confirmation of something between J and RT. The other weird thing is...J is RT's STBX's best friend....not that it matters with cheaters.

Not to get sidetracked from the whole parenting thing...which is far more important....

Really, I have to think of RT as a non-entity. She does not exist.

So...here's the current version:

WH:
You and I talked the other day about how I was feeling so overwhelmed and out of my league with parenting alone. It has since occurred to me that that attitude has been my problem all along. For a long time, I have denied you EQUAL responsibility for raising our boys. You have the SAME ability that I do to make decisions about how to discipline them, about how they should spend their time, about what standards we set for them. I married you and chose to have children with you because I knew you are a kind, loving man and knew that you would be a kind, loving father.

The fact that you choose to demonstrate your love for our boys differently than I do does not make it WRONG or any less loving. Assuming that has been a terrible mistake on my part, one for which I am deeply sorry. There are many, many ways that you are [OR HAVE BEEN?] a much better parent than I, and I have failed miserably in recognizing that truth.

I know that you love *** and ### as much as I do, and I have complete and total faith in you. I know--without a doubt--that you will do what is right for our boys. I look forward to the two of us doing what is right for our boys TOGETHER as an intact family. In the meantime, I know that you will continue to honor our agreement by not exposing them to people or situations that will give them wrong ideas about marriage, committment, and morality.

Love always,
me


Should probably lose that last word and just end with committment.

ok, lets do some multitasking here; we ARE women, after all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I am wondering if there was something going on here and that is why they moved? In that case, that might be valuable information to casually drop to your WH to give him some 2nd thoughts and cause conflict in the affair.

Is there anyway you could get "T" to open up? If there was something, I suspect she might be more than happy to pass it onto a fellow victim of the skanky ho. Perhaps if you made a little phone call to discuss the OW and ask her advice since she knows her so well? I just wonder what you would turn up?

If there was something there, it sure would cause some conflict in the affair if it were very deftly and carefully dropped into the conversation. If your H were to find out he was only one of many, he might have more cause for concern. hmmmm

I suggest the addition of RT's name to be as clear as possible. WH could rationalize his way out of it otherwise.

Best from new wife and I! You are doing great!
We both have been where you are.

WST

Speaking of multi-tasking..I'm kinda busy...

Why did you decide on a letter rather than talking to him face to face?

This may need the torpedo approach!!

STRONGLY WORDED..ONE LINERS..know what I mean?

It's so IMPORTANT for him to GET THIS..so REPETITION may be needed...

He can easily dismiss or not even read your letters these days..INSANE WSes.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking rather than writing something, catch him doing something right.

LS - you've always been "policing" you husband as a father. Catch him doing fatherly things around you with your sons. The way he fixes things and takes care of things - such a good role model for his sons. The way he can play video games with them and challenge them.

Ignore the things that make you wince - praise the things you want to see more of.

It's time for actions to tell him you think he's a good father. Words come too easily. I agree he's less likely to read your notes - RT will but then she can sabotage you... He and he only will hear your words of praise and they will go straight to his heart.

Have you planned the Superbowl party yet?

I agree w/ KaylaAndy.

I'm not sure a letter would be as effective as letting him see your changed behavior and attitude. Praise him when you can. Tell him the good things the boys said about their time w/ him.

When you find a moment where he does something differently than you would, use that moment to tell him you've realized how wrong you were to judge his parenting skills as "bad" b/c they were different than his. Look him in the eyes...let him see that you mean this. That you really ARE sorry.

His judgment sucks right now. So obviously you can't praise him for everything he does. And if he wants to bring them around RT, then you should 100% speak up.

Continue to say, I KNOW you love our boys and want to do right by them. You'll be reassuring him that you don't question his love for them, but you will also be planting seeds in his heart that in the end...HE WILL DO RIGHT BY THEM...he will come back to his family.

~ Marsh