<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Mimi -

Never thought I would ever be compared to "SH"!!! You made my day. Gooooollllllyyyy!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SB

SB:

SO HAPPY TO HAVE MADE YOUR DAY!!!

Your posts are SOOO insightful and helpful!!!

Sis:

Do you have a photos of him doing stuff with the boys when they were younger?

If you do, what do you think about making a small collage of the photos to place in a card? Include a BRIEF note expressing your APPRECIATION of HIM..MEMORIES of PARENTING TOGETHER....

THIS WILL PROVIDE A VISUAL IMAGE OF AN ASPECT OF HIS LIFE THAT ONLY YOU CAN SHARE WITH HIM!!!

OT: Kayla, did you know that you are also ONE OF MY GIRLS???
(((KAYLA)))..You too, Marsh... with all the good recipes...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sis,

Add three concrete things to the letter that he does better than you do. List them
1.
2.
3.

I would not add the part about the exposure to other people. That changes the communication altogether, IMHO. He may see it as a "sandwich" communication - which is, something bad sandwiched into something good. The good thing will NOT count - the "flavor" is changed by the comment regarding exposure to RT, and communicatively alters the message.

In my business, I would assess it as an overall communication that you wanted to reiterate to him not to expose the boys to her. I would not advise him that the letter was one of support for his parenting. I would tell him that while you did apologize for your part, that you were couching your apology with an exclusionary clause - and that clause was to continue to point to his adultery as an issue with regard to his parenting. This is because your closing is seen as the most important part of the letter - and you focus on what you want him TO DO. You lost track of what you were trying to say, and that is, that you are sorry for judging his parenting skills negatively.

While the adultery certainly does color his parenting, the point of the letter isn't to draw attention to that. I know you are worried about that (if you haven't already, you should have some sort of court order or legal agreement in this regard), but for the purposes of trying to issue a mea culpa, this isn't the time to add that caveat.


If I were to rewrite the letter, I would eliminate any reference to morality/exposure/adultery in the slightest. Steer clear of it. Stay on topic with the apology, praise his parenting, make that clear.

The exposure topic can be addressed in another way - because the topic will come up again in a conversation once he gets the letter. You can restate your concern about taking the boys over to RT's then, if you need to.

Just my opinion!

SB

How about a series of notes..with photos..each with the theme of one thing he does better than you...

WSes are dense..in need of VISUALS and SIMPLICITY...

One of the things that Mr. W said to me that did penetrate my fog was that my "history" would be lost...gone forever...Never would there be that person(him) there to say, "Remember When?" or "I knew you when."...Our wedding day...Even the tiniest things would vanish-things that others would NEVER "get"...certain things said during child labor...certain looks given...inside jokes...our dd's first steps and how we felt and looked at each other when those happened...even her illnesses...There would be NO ONE EVER that could know these things with me...And for some reason that really resonated with me...He planted a very powerful seed...Even now, when we share something seemingly insignificant, I sometimes fight to hold back tears, because I know what I almost threw away and I am so grateful that I was given a second chance...

On the parenting issue...Even in recovery that will remain a biggie...I still struggle with what a horrible parent that I was during my affair...I feel like I may never redeem myself from that...Like I am always struggling to play catch up and make up...It is hard to describe the feelings of remorse mixed with self hatred that go with that...In reading your thread Sis, it has helped me to put a finger on some of what I need to help me along these lines-thank you...I have asked Mr. W to point out when he sees something...anything that I do well as a parent...Admiration is also a top need of mine, and it REALLY suffers when you realize how very little there was to admire about yourself in WS days, and you want so bad to fix that, and you know that you never really can...I believe that your husband may feel this too...just a bit of a heads up I suppose...

Mrs. W

Sis,

I like the apology letter, and to combine it with the idea of mimi's with the things he does well in parenting in a "serial note" with picture.

The apology letter will go miles - to write to him communicating that you "get it". Wow, what a message that will send him. Then, to go on from there and tell him the MANY things you see that he does so well? He is very unlikely to ask you to stop doing THAT!

SB

LilSis,

I'm not if sure if you're considering this, but I'd like to chime in on getting info about the possibility that RT may have had A...or something like it...with J (the former neighbor).

I'm not sure I'd advise asking T (J's wife) about it. In your first post, you mentioned that she was RT's best friend. If there was no A (or T didn't know about an A), this could really blow up for you. T would likely rush to call RT. That could give RT some ammo to use against you with WH.

I don't claim to be an expert here so please disregard if this is bad advice. It's just that I didn't hear any of the pros chiming in about this.

Anyone??

WOW..I'm recalling that my H actually used this word...when he was still DEEP IN HIS FOG..he expressed REGRET that the OW did not "have his HISTORY"...so this must be a major issue for WSes...

So much of their relationship is NEW..which must be fun for awhile..

Steve helped me to understand this, too..so I'll try to past this on to you...

There's the PAST, PRESENT and the FUTURE...

You hold his PAST...

The OW has his PRESENT...and HOPES for the FUTURE...

So from a mathematical point of view..if you can help him to understand that there can be a future with you, you WIN...

many of years of his PAST plus FUTURE..with YOU...

PRESENT plus HOPE of a FUTURE with her..

Did I say this clearly????

I hope so.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Lilsis... I would advocate talking to your H about the things you wish to say regarding his parenting. I say this for two reasons... one is I think it would have more impact...
The second is a ... just in case things go south reason... if things do not go as you hope with your WH, I think it is important that he not be armed with a letter expressing what a great father he is at this point. Custody battles are very funny things and I would hate to see your own words come back to haunt you and allow the no good HO more time around your kids.
I don't think any of that is going to be a concern... but if you have the choice as to how to do this... well, I would take the route that allows YOU the most protection.
You are doing a great job.

Hi LS -- Lurker coming out here to ask one question of folks. Does LS run any risk by praising her WH in a letter about his parenting and saying she was wrong in her parenting? I'm thinking if RT gets a hold of this letter, would she encourage him to show his attorney to be used as leverage in anything?

Don't want to rain on the parade here, but LS has done such a good job of describing how devious the Skank can be, I can't help thinking about it. Also, it seems in looking back over your thread, LS, the real break-through moments where you've actually reached your H, not your WH, have come when you've been TALKING to your H, not e-mailing or texting.

Just thinking out loud, here...

Shellybird

What am I, chopped liver? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I don't see how that would give ammo to RT. Ammo to do what? They might not be friends anymore if there was an affair. This might explain why they moved away so suddenly. But it would be real easy to explore this issue with T, by simply mentioning that her H is having an affair with RT; introducing the subject with an open ended question. That would leave open the door for T to talk about any potential similarities.

Even so, LS knows the politics of the situation better than me so she would be a better judge of the workability of this plan. I do think it would be a very potent weapon against the OW if it was discerned that there was an affair.

I agree that it's not a good idea to send a letter to him.

I think a card with BRIEF NOTES is OK...

It doesn't matter if the OW sees those pictures...

What could she say NEGATIVE about pictures of him and his children without revealing WHO SHE REALLY IS???

I would have to agree with MEDC on this one. Maybe a conversation with WH would be a bit more practical given the fact that nothing would be in writing that may come back to haunt LiL Sis.

Nah Mel, I see you more as Grade A PRIME Texas BULL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Agree with you about bringing up RT's affair with Sis' H to T...Never know what skeletons lie in RT's closet...Time for a bone or two to roll out the way I see it...

Mrs. W

Are you saying I am full of BULL?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> dat could be true! **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry...my bad.

Wow...lots of activity tonight..and i'm crying...

I came across an old email program we used to use, and it still had all the sent/trashed items in it. We must have switched over in mid 2005, so there was stuff before and after the A began. A bunch of emails to RT...just jokes and some kid photos from t-ball. Even two emails to RT's mother in Wisconsin...pics WH had taken at a t-ball game.

There was also an email I had sent to WH from work in early 2005. It was a copy of an old email from my dad...who died in 2001. Those of you who've read this closely know that my dad and I were very close. He was the kindest, most loving man...WH reminded me of him in many ways, which is probably one of the reasons I married him.

Anyway, WH's response to my email was:
Is this supposed to be-
A. a reminder to be sweet to you
B. a reminder that you're difficult to live with Or
C. showing me that you're cleaning out your email at work

My reply was:
I guess it would be D. All of the above. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sorry I was grouchy. I don't know why I felt so stressed and overwhelmed this morning.

This was in Jan. 2005. I KNOW why I was stressed and overwhelmed. My H was pulling away from me and having an A!! I'm just so sad...I've lost both my H and my dad. What did I do to deserve this?

So I'm just not into the whole "what can I do for WH to show admiration for his parenting" at the moment. I do like the ideas about cards/pictures, but I'll think about it tomorrow. Too blue now.

I don't know about T and J, either. T knows about the A with WH...has since the summer. According to RT's STBX, T was upset, but "is still RT's friend." ???? And J is STBX's best friend. And after my "antics" I doubt either T or J would be interested in opening up to me.

Sis:

It sounds like to me that you have not tried an antidepressant.

Am I wrong?

When I finally made that decision, the medicine really was helpful. I was sad but had fewer tearful episodes and had more energy. Actually I've continued...

In terms of my thinking, I found it really helpful to stay out of the past as much as possible..took the photos down, didn't look at them, didn't read old cards from my H, etc...

The past is gone forever..there's nothing that anybody can do about that...thinking about the past can make you feel hopeless and frustrated...you did the best you could do..THIS STUFF HAPPENED TO YOU, TO ME, TO US...for many different reasons..but asking WHY is not going to make it all go away...nor will you find the answer...

You do have the present and your future..TRY to focus on that...

And plus, in the long run, the trials that you are facing will definitely make you a much better person regardless of the outcome of your marriage...

You are not alone in facing trials, Sis...

I asked the same question you asked ...."WHY ME"...and that spiritual friend of mine that I spoke to you about before said to me.."WHY NOT YOU?"...I've grown to accept that trials are a part of life...It's your turn now. Just have FAITH that GOD is there for you and is taking care of you.

FOCUS ON YOUR BLESSINGS..your children..your family...your own special GIFTS as a person..reaching out to thousands of unknown people here on the internet...

(((SIS)))

Thanks, mimi. My dad has been on my mind a lot recently and finding that old email just brought it all up. He would have been so disappointed, so hurt by WH. When he was dying, my dad asked WH to look out for my mom. My dad gave me away to WH.

All that. You know it all. I know it's gone. But I miss the times before I lost my dad, before I lost my H. When I felt young and innocent, like my whole life stretched out before me...an open book of possibiities. The email was just a sad reminder of those times. I know life is a journey, but this dark tunnel feels long. I need to turn to God to light the way, and that is a new and unfamiliar experience for me as well.

I am on ADs, and actually (once I finally got the right combo) I do feel better (so you have an idea of how bad I WAS). I am all for drugs...whatever it takes to get me through a day. Last week was the ridiculous hormonal tsunami...tonight...who knows. I have not exercised...I NEED to get back into that routine. It would be the best AD I could do now, good for mind AND body.