I really empathize Sis..

Although I had my struggles with my father, his sudden death was a major tragedy for me..then my H's affair..and more recently I lost both of my beloved grandparents within 6 months of each other..so I really, really understand...

However, given my happiness today, I know that recovery from tragedy is possible..after all that I have been through, I've NEVER been happier..

As I always say, I PRAY THIS FOR YOU AND ALL OTHERS HURTING HERE...

LilSis:

This is all I got today, Got to get to work...

I have reviewed the last two days of info, things move fast around here...

Send pictures, and the points where your H was a good father, and how he can be one again. Very good idea. It may be used against you in a court of law, (Thanks MEDC) But, I would accept the entry of a letter saying your H was a good father. Because if it comes to it, they are going to use the R/O and case against you any way. Don't worry about anything else. Speak to him about these points as well and bring them up. Part of your new Mantra to bring WH home. .

Do not reinterate about not being around RT. I had the same sense as Schoolbus on this. But she said it in a stunningly correct manner.

History with WH? Yes, he, as well as I, have Pi$$ed all over it. But times prior to the A are real and still honest. Happily ever after is an easy way to end the fairy tale, but does not recognize that that "HEA" may have to last for 40-50 years...

The pain you feel is real. And looking at older things can bring back such painful memories. And so much more pain. So stay in the present, and remember your goal.

But, the one thing that I never forgot, and I realized it soon inside the A, that the history I had with BS was SOOO much more important than the History I was creating with OW. And sitting around the family dinner table in the future with her was so much more diminished than with BS. Focus on that future.

Had a better post and lost it....thanking everyone for boosting me up. I think weekends are hard...too much downtime. Monday morning provides a routine for the boys, and the anticipation of going back to work where I can be confident and successful.

Here's my idea:
Get one of those small little photo albums. Fill it with photos and comments, memories, etc. A photo on one side and a hand-written note/comment/memory on the other side. Some from me, some from DS11 and some from DS8. Like RS's calendar idea only less decorative and permanent.

LilSis is back...and determined.

(mimi...I've been thinking about how RT is TOXIC. Just thinking of her, wondering about her, etc. brings me down. Brings fear and doubt. Clouds my light. Spiritually...understand?)

Lil Sis: I don't know if you missed my post yesterday about finding out the status of RT's divorce. Let me know if you need help with that.

Have a great day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

YES!!! I can tell you that even during the A FWH told me he loved seeing me in his t-shirts. I would wear them to bed or sometimes, just around the house when he was dropping by.

Also, I haven't had a chance to read all of the post from the weekend but I saw you mention something about timing your plan B to coincide around the time of your in-laws return. I agree with Melody on following your instincts on this one. Against everyone's advice on here I held out for my plan B until my kids left for the summer. I knew in my heart that it was the perfect timing and would have the most impact. It was where FWH really saw what it would be like divorced. And I was right. So definately follow your instincts on this one.

And yes I do concur with toning down the overtures a little, let him get comfortable with being around you. Definately still flirt but not so overly sexual. More subtle.

Ok, now I'm going to try to catch up on the rest b/c I'm probably just repeating what others have said.

PM: How do I email you privately? I did follow your suggestion and logged on to the county website and I can look up hearing dates, but only those that are occurring within the next two weeks. ???

I texted WH a few lines from a favorite poem...lines that have to do with finding one's way home.

He texted back, "I know the poem, thank you." Big blow off....as in: don't bother.

He called me earlier to ask about picking the boys up today...because it was coming in on the private line, I knew it would be him. I answered, "Hi!" as always when I know it is him...always have answered that way. Instead of just saying hi back, he said, "Hi LilSis." He never does that, using my name...that's like how you greet a stranger.

Hurt my feelings. Gotta be tough. Shine up my armor. Don't feel defeated by those little things. Use those little things to inspire me to do better.

But I was thinking....has ANYONE in as bad a situation as I'm in ever recovered? D has been filed, WH is long gone from home, I'm only able to meet ENs here and there...I keep reading other's sitches and none seem to have as many strikes against them as mine, certainly none of the folks who are working thru recovery now. Exceptions would be those where there's real abuse, addiction, etc....some kind of additional dysfunction.

nothing unusual here

if he was not a stupid WS he'd be home

he's getting hammered by OW is more like it ...

carry on

Pep

Keep telling me that's the reason....that RT is giving him chit and he's bending over backwards to make her happy, reassure her, tell her he's being firm with me and that he's NOT going to respond to my emotions, my requests for help, etc. She's telling him that I'm playing him (she'd know all about that, wouldn't she?)

When he called, he asked if I or DS11 had called yesterday (saw it on caller id apparently and didn't bother to return it). I told him I had been the one to call, it was one of those mornings....
WH: What do you mean?
LS: The boys were fighting and arguing all morning, screaming at one another and hitting, and I was trying to get out the door for church and they were balking.
WH: Oh.
LS: I was at my wit's end. It's getting worse and worse. Those boys need a firmer hand and I just can't be that for them.
WH: Well, I'll pick them up after school and bring them back before 8.

So I guess my concern about the boys behavior is a non-issue.

What I said is sooo true, and fits RIGHT IN with this weekend's discussion here. They do need a firmer hand...they know that I am a sucker...they have no fear of me. It frightens me that they are only 8 and 11 and sometimes they just don't even seem to hear me. I'm just talking to air. What happens when they are adolescents?? I just see this slippery slope, all downhill without some serious intervention (read: dad at home). Scary.

RT is prolly READING some of the text msg

keep it up

make some msg very cryptic

Pep

this was true in our house

Mom is soft
Dad is firm

keep pushing for more Fathering from him

Pep

The poem would be cryptic because she would have no idea. Robert Frost? Did he sing "Addicted to Love?"

But WH will know...even if he responds tersely, he'll know...and know that I know. He'll remember...later...when he's alone.

Okay. I like thinking of it that way MUCH better.

I asked my DH last night about some of his thoughts and feelings during the A, that I thought might be applicable to you.

Basically, when I was affectionate to him, and he was cold to me, then later he was sometimes warmer and sometimes colder, what was in his mind, what caused him to change, etc.?


A lot of it was hard for him to remember, being lost beneath the fog of the time, but what he was able to recall was enlightening.

He was trying to just walk away and not look back, but when I kept being loving to him no matter how mean he was, he didn't have any excuse to be pushed away, and felt himself being drawn back.

At the same time, he felt pulled toward her, too.

Back and forth, like a tug-of-war. When he was with me, he felt pulled toward me, toward the family. When he was with her, he felt pulled toward her. He couldn't bring himself to just go, or just stay.

Without my asking specifically about this, he said that our history together was a huge factor. We had been together for so many years, I was the mother of his children, and had, up to that point, been his best friend.

It is also worthy of note that she felt threatened by that, although she was smart enough not to undermine it openly. Now he can see more plainly than every how she was manipulating him every way possible, trying to make sure he fell off the fence in her direction.

But the ties from God working in his life, the love of his wife, and the thoughts of his children, ultimately were too strong to break.

He is so grateful for his second chance.

Don't understimate yourself, and don't underestimate God. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Edited to delete email.

Got it. I'll email you when I get home. Thanks!

The meaner and colder he is; the more your Plan A is working.

He's gonna push you harder to give up. He's going to be meaner to make you give up. He's going to be colder to make you give up.

YOUR WH DOES NOT WANT YOU TO FIGHT FOR HIM! (but your husband inside of him does...)

Have you read about Harley's stages of marriage?
Your WH is in withdrawal. Your loving actions are pulling him into "conflict." That is an improvement over withdrawal. It means your plan is working!!!

I also tried to post and lost it...

I don’t think it is a good idea to give your WS a note or letter in which you state in anyway that he may be a better parent. You don’t want him to have anything that he could use to fight you for custody.

Better to look for an opportunity to talk to him about your admiration for his child rearing skills and how you made mistakes in the past…. through some current interaction you observe between him and the boys.

In our sitch my H didn’t file for DV and I was advised not to rush to file….there was no hurry. He was amenable to the support agreement my lawyer suggested as reasonable. There is no legal separation in our state and it is a no fault state (yuck). We had a couple of separations and false recoveries during that A that lasted around 4 yrs.

The OW and her H in our sitch moved to DV rather quickly after D-day but it took a long time to become final. My H moved in with her after her DV was final. She made out quite well financially. Her H was somewhat like RT’s in that he thought that she had found her soulmate in my H and wanted her to be happy

They lived together less than a couple of months before the fantasy bubble of their A finally burst. They had expected it to be one big, happy, blended family. Her older son (a friend of our son and ice hockey team mate) resented his presence. It just wasn’t all that great being in another man’s house, with another man’s family…when he wasn’t with his own kids and he was also losing their respect.

He ended the A, moved in with a friend for a couple of months, and saw a therapist several times. Although we saw a marriage counsel post A we didn’t do enough to make sure he understood the hows and whys of A’s etc. so he fell prey to the temptation of another A ( a different OW – for 8 months) within a couple of years. He insists that they had PA 2x…whatever…. Many would have given up at that point which I was very tempted to do.

We followed that A with the Marriage Builders Weekend (early 2003) and did the MB follow up program. We are recovered and happier than we ever were pre-A’s.

It sounds like you are on the right track with your Plan A. Keep it up.

Yep...

Do what you have to do to BUILD UP A WALL AROUND YOURSELF WHEN HE ACTS LIKE THIS....PUT ON YOUR ARMOR...

When my H acted like that..remember the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde..it was after a MAJOR FIX from her...afraid that feelings for you will cause him to loose his HIGH..he's trying to protect his HIGH..the FIX will wear off...

Isn't there such POWER in this KNOWLEDGE?

I learned to read him and he was clueless...

MOVE ON FORWARD...

He's following the script...

I think what's SOOOO POSITIVE in your situation is his continued investment and interest in his children...he does not have to do this..this is a definite choice that he is making...



As Trix is indicating, this is very likely to happen...

This is worth a repeat..because I want to DITTO everything that Neak says here...

On the day of his FINAL BREAK with the OW..just before he called her up..with me listening... my H actually said, moaning in agony : "I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE.." He was referring to the TUG OF WAR SCENARIO....

And there's the significance of the HISTORY..that many of us are sharing...

AND DON'T UNDERESTIMATE YOURSELF..AND DON'T UNDERESTIMATE GOD...
Beautiful, Neak!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi LilSis,

do you suspect your H will move in w/ RT after her D is final?
how old are her children again?

I can almost guarantee my FWH's answer would be the same. He has pretty much said those same things without me even asking.

When I talked to Steve Harley about it he told me that my H's anger and resistance to the changes I was making meant it was working. They don't want you to take away their justifications and reasoning. It is exactly like Neak said, a tug of war. But OW can't provide your history, she can't give him all those little things a wife knows about her H.

One day after my FWH moved home, I asked him if he wanted a sandwich. He said yes, and I asked him how he wanted it. He turned and looked at me and said with the greatest look of relief and appreciation, "you always know exactly how I like them". It wasn't meant to be sarcastic or anything like that, you could tell he had missed someone knowing him that well. She can't give him that, in the end she can't hold a candle to the real thing.

And just like Neak, my FWH is extremely grateful for his second chance too, a far cry from where we were a year ago.