I believe it was Orchid that said it so well. Plan A your H and Plan B the WH. This is what I started to do and it worked so well. It got to the point that I could tell who I was dealing with just by him saying hello and even by the way he walked. Somedays I felt like I was dealing with split personalities. When I was dealing with WH I tried to limit the contact. This is also how I learned to start setting some boundaries. It really started to work. At times I would see the switch from WH to H happen right before my eyes just b/c he could feel the difference in me.

Thanks for responding to my question/concern, everyone. Since WH has the boys this afternoon (and I'm done with work for the day), I am going to go through photos and pull out a bunch that the boys and I can go through for our little photo album project. This will be fun for all of us, and I know the boys will be delighted to present the final result to their dad.

Trix, it is a relief to know that someone else seems to have been in as bad a situation as I am, and made it. But he filed....I suppose if I want to give it all the benefit of the doubt I could tell myself that he filed under pressure from RT...he filed 3 months after her STBX did. Same story here...the kids were friends...how disgusting is that. We are also a no-fault state. LS is an option, but I think WH wants to be a free man...fill in the blank here.

As to whether he will move in with her...dunno. I thought that RT's STBX told me that her "rehabilitative" support would end if she co-habitated or got remarried, but I'm not positive. Hopefully $ means more to RT than WH. If so, she better wake up because once he's paying support to me, he's not going to be rolling in the dough. Together, we were very comfortable...but the numbers don't work in anyone's favor with a D.

Her kids are 5, 7, 10.5. DS11 and her oldest have known each other since preschool, and her 7-y-o and DS8 were good friends during the 2 years prior to D-day.

Neak, mimi and IAD, your stories are so helpful as well. It is quite possible that I do tend to underestimate the significance of me, family, history...the "pull" of those things...but there's no way of knowing until after, is there? Those are the invisible seeds that are below the soil. Therein lies the rub.

And as you've all reminded me, I have God on my side, too. That makes me smile. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll try to take the meanness as a good sign. Now--just watch--he'll be nice, and I'll take that as a bad sign....ay, yi, yi.

Wow. I can also tell when it's WH or H, but I've never seen him switch on a dime like that (I don't think). I just try to be nice either way....even when I'm setting a boundary. I just do it nicely and respectfully, but the armor is up. If it's H, I'm totally open.

So, for you, if WH walked in the door, did you recognize him immediately and keep your interaction brief? or did you try to reach H to see if you could make him come out? What do you mean by him feeling the "difference" in you? Do you mean the changes that you made?

Definitely don't underestimate the draw of your history and family.

The other woman had lots going for her to draw my husband financially...she really tried to buy my husband and my kids...disgusting. It ultimately wasn't enough once the fog began to lift. My youngest at the time was 12...the OW's youngest was 5.

It is different that WH filed but that doesn't mean that your situation in less hopeful.

I made lots of mistakes along the way...tried to compete with OW and tried to have an A with my own H...etc...but what really 'worked' was having to go through to actually live with OW...and at the same time he saw me moving on with my life...making plans for my future without him.

I could tell either the moment he opened his mouth on the phone or the moment I saw him in person. There was a certain tone to his voice and this strong body language. It was in everything he did, facial expressions, way he walked, his laugh, just his whole demeanor. Once I started to really grasp the difference and feel comfortable that it really had nothing to do with me I started feeling stronger and more sure of what I was doing. Orchids quote really hit home with me. I plan A'd my a$$ off but I also decided that if WH was going to be nasty then plan A didn't mean I had to put up with it.

I was never rude to him, but I became somewhat distant. I would usually try to end the interaction ASAP but if I couldn't I would just kind of get an aloofness about me. If he spoke rudely to me or said something hurtful I would repeat my boundary. Which was that I chose not to interact with him when he chose to speak to me disrespectfully, etc. Then I would leave or hang up. This almost always resulted in him turning into real H. Sometimes it was immediately, sometimes it would be a few hours later.

Sometimes, I would just become slightly aloof and he would catch onto it immediately. Sometimes that would be enough to snap him back to real H. Other times, WH would use that as a moment to try to be mean, hoping I would break and run for the hills, thereby setting him free. Nope, never happened.

Does that make sense at all??? I really have a habit of rambling and I never know if it makes sense or not in the end.

No...I get it. That's very helpful...I sometimes feel at a loss at how to "be" when I'm faced with WH. It's like talking to a stranger about personal and private matters...or about my children. Yuck.

Describing your response as "aloofness" draws a picture for me.

I can also tell if it's H or WH by tone of voice, body language, etc. It's so obvious.

WH isn't usually "nasty" or crossing a boundary, so to speak, but he is cold and withdrawn and abrupt. Addressing me like a stranger. I suppose it makes sense to treat him the same way--more businesslike--when he is in that frame of mind...that way I'm not wasting my emotional capital on a fruitless interaction. Then when H shows up, pour it on....rewarding positive behavior.

Does this sound correct? Is this okay Plan A?

No...be consistant. Even in the face of ugliness.
Its the way you demonstrate your changes are permanent.

Most WH don't trust that the changes are real or permanent, that its just a ploy to get them back.

He's going to deliberatly try to get you to break your Plan A behaviours so that he can point his finger and say "see...its not real".

(That doesn't mean you shouldn't stick up for yourself if he's the one crossing the line or your boundries.)

You aren't breaking plan A by doing this. SH calls it a guarded plan A, but you may not be ready for this yet. I was seeing ALOT of real H when I started doing it. My plan A behaviors/changes were already consistent by that time. It was really more about setting boundaries for me.


I agree with Lexxy, you need to remain consistent but yes as she said you can stick up for yourself if he's crossing a boundary.

I threw out Orchid's quote on Plan Aing the H and plan Bing the WH b/c Mimi's post about Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde reminded me of that.

Sorry, I just read this again. No, no, no, that's not what I mean at all. Sorry if that's how it read. Maybe aloof wasn't the right word. A little more reserved. Still very much in plan A. Just a little more guarded. Definately do not treat him like he's treating you. You still want to be positive, loving, et. just know that you can end the conversation if you need to. You can call it a night if WH is making you feel yucky.

OK, I'm just going to shut up now before I write anything else that I don't explain well.

Daze ... you did good

Pep

LilSis,

From the outside of all of this incredible advice, I see progression in your sitch that is amazing. You don't see it because you are so close. It's like trying to read text when it is directly in front of your face, up against your nose, it will be squiggly and unrecognizable, until you can pull it away from your face. Believe everyone when they say you are doing it and doing it well...

Also, you don't always have to be sunshine and lollypops, sometimes just even keel, especially when confronted with the WH, is okay. Even keel and in control of yourself.

You are AMAZING! I think that it's safe to say that your COURAGE draws many too you. I am in AWE, and think you are a fine lady. You inspire me to keep chugging along, no matter what comes of my whole mess.

You are truth, you are real, and you are for [email]d@mn[/email] sure throwing a wet blanket over those waywards picnic... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

sometimes an oblique Plan A is useful ~~~> send flowers to your MIL/FIL

with a mushy note

tell them how much they mean to you

and do the same to your other IN-Laws (the ones who don't know what the heII to do or what to say ) .... tell them their friendship & support means the world ... even if they have done next to nothing ... you will get paid dividends later

this is stuff OW cannot do

because she's ODD one OUT

Pep

Okay, sounds good. That's what I have been doing...being consistently loving and kind...so I'll just continue. I imagine that it is significant that by the time you went to a guarded Plan A, you were seeing your H more frequently.

Short interaction with WH tonight when he dropped the boys off. I tried to take the opportunity to begin the parenting talk stuff. I asked him how the boys were with him this afternoon, he said fine. I told him that they have really been testing me with their arguing and fighting. I also told him that I now realized that I had denied him an equal role in parenting and that I was very sorry for that. He stared at me as I was saying that. He was standing at an angle to me, one hand on the doorknob. He said that we both have a lot of things to be sorry for.

I reached up and gave him a hug around the neck. He one-armed me back. I nuzzled his neck, told him I loved him and that "this feels good" and he smelled good, too. He allowed me to stand there with my arms around his neck for quite a while, actually. one arming me back.

About 15 minutes after he left, the boys were at it again. DS8 was screaming at DS11...who KNOWS what it was about. So I called WH, and as soon as he picked up I said, "This goes on day and night.." and held the phone up.
WH: Put DS8 on.
LS: DS8, it's dad, he wants to talk to you.
DS8: Tell him I love him. (and walks away)
LS, quietly to WH: Did you hear that? He said to tell you that he loves you, and then he walked away.
WH: Go get him on the phone.

I follow DS8 into the kitchen and tell him that dad wants to talk to him. DS8 sort of reluctantly gets the phone, says "Hi Dad" and walks out of the kitchen. I give him a little privacy, but I peek in a minute later and I see DS8 crying into the phone. I go over to him and rub his back. He's just saying, Okay, okay...I can't hear any of the other end of the conversation. Then he hands the phone to me.

LS: What happened?
WH: Is he still crying?
LS: No.
WH: I told him not to let his brother squash his spirit and happiness. That we are all going through a stressful time (AAARGH!! Thanks to YOU, WH!!!) and so his brother might be trying to take it out on him because he's younger, and DS8 shouldn't let his brother do that.
LS: It's both of them...DS11 pushing the buttons and DS8 letting everything get to him. This is where I am so out of my league. They just don't listen to me.
WH: It's like that with every mother and sons. Ask my mom next time you talk to her. It was like that with me, with BIL 1 and BIL 2. My mom had no authority with us, and she knew it, too. That's just the way it is, it's not just because of what's going on.
LS: Well, that may be paritially true, but at least your mom had your DAD there every evening and every night to be the firm, guiding hand. I've got no back up here, and it really scares me. If they are like this when they are this age, what about when they are 13 and 16?
WH: Well let me talk to DS11. For now, that will have to do.

I took that opportunity to tell him again that I was wrong to shut him out and not make him an equal partner in parenting. I told him I knew that he loved our boys and I knew that he would do right by them. ("I'm trying," he responded cheerfully, like I had just given him a gold star...ugh) I said that I now understood that how he demostrates his love for the boys is no less valid than how I demonstrate my love for them...it was wrong of me to assume that.

My voice broke a little when I told him that there were SOO many things that he was better at than I related to parenting....and this was one of them....providing a firm hand and keeping them in line. I am failing miserably.

By then I was back downstairs and I gave the phone to DS11, who talked to WH for a couple of minutes and hung up.

Well, I got the conversation started anyway. Maybe now that I've opened this door, I should feel okay about giving him regular updates on how they are doing.

I think I'm going to try MIL tonight...see what's going on with her. I got a wonderful email from her today..."My precious daughter...I will never give up on you." it began. Can you believe it? I hardly can...that's not how my own mother speaks to me....

LS

Thanks, SL. I know I lack perspective...and I also lack experience...so the perspective and experience from everyone here is invaluable and gives me whatever courage I have.

Pep....oh, oh!! On my last weekend "off," a couple of us went over to another friend's house to learn how to mosaic. (our one friend is an art major) My friend did her house numbers in ceramic tile, and I did a vase in glass tiles. It's really, really beautiful (if I do say so...). I'm going to send it to MIL when we complete the last step of grouting it....it matches her place in Phoenix. I know she will love it....she'd love it if it were ugly because that's just the kind of woman that she is.

BTW...the boys were really excited about the mini-photo album idea. I showed them the stuff I got and they are already talking about what they want to put in it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lilsis... have you ever done a search for spyware on your computer? You can get a free trial from webroot spy sweeper if not. I think it is an important step since you are posting on a computer you shared with your H... that is an assumption on my part. Anyway.. I am sorry you are having a hrd time with the kids. What they are going through is very tough...I hope this helps shake WH from his fog. You are doing a great job.

Hmmmm...no, never done the spyware thing. Call me stoopid, but....WH has not accessed this computer since I began posting here. So how could he spy? I'm also hardwired, not wireless.

Thanks MEDC. Have fun shopping this weekend? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LilSis:

Terrific interaction here. You pointed out that you know that he is a good parent. And that you need him. And he didn't run away....

The past week you have had discussions, meetings and today's activity to discuss his parenting skills.

Although close up, to you, nothing much seems to be happening, the seeds are getting plenty of water and sufficent warmth to begin to peak out of the ground.

And you have said your piece, "Denied him a role" & "shut him out and not make him an equal partner" He got that message.

How?

When you called him and put him on the phone with the boys.

When you told him the 1st time in the kitchen, he stared at you. Because he understood exactly what you were saying because he does feel this way. And he was thinking that "here we go again, the same old, same old, you are going to tell me what I am doing wrong"

And you didn't. (H Notices this!)

You then call 15 minutes later and let him know whats going on.

He didn't hang up, he talked to the boys. You and the boys, needed HIM. Very powerful to H. Because this is something that would not have happened in the past. He was an equal. (I am generalizing here, LS did not completely control everything in regards to the boys, but slowly H withdrew.) He was actually more than equal, HE was the one to fix it.

You have told him that his role in regards to parenting his children is changing. And he controls it. Now, just feed him encouragement....

Just like your close:



Smiles! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

First off, let me say, I can't wait to see what Schoolbus has to say about this interaction....and Mimi too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (Hi Mimi, I'm glad I'm one of your girls too.)

I just wanted to tell you that like LG I think you did great tonight.

A couple of things jumped out at me...


He KNOWS why everyone is going through a stressful time.

He's NOT blaming YOU for their behavior like alot of WS try to do. (Read PHB's thread about the latest thing his WW blamed HIM for w/ regards to their DD.)

Also note that he said "WE" THAT includes him too.

He's not happy w/ things either.

Good to know.



Right after you told him how the boys were behaving and how you feel out of your league b/c they won't listen to you...he tries to comfort you....reassure you.

Yes, he could also be trying to say that this is NOT about his A....but since he's already acknowledged the "stressful situation" I think he is mostly trying to comfort YOU...reach out to you.



You made some significant admiration deposits in his LB tonight.

I know you fear that this will cause him to think his A is OK, but I don't believe it will. I believe it will make him want to do MORE for you and the boys.

You told him tonight that you BELIEVED in him.

Wow!

I'm going to repost something Jo had quoted to you earlier on your thread...I think you might want to read it again.


"Hi Lil Sis,

I've C&P'd Lostva's (Lori) story here for you to read. She successfully Plan A'd while separated. Its a good read:


---

Ok, so you guys do realize that I tend to get wordy and talk WAYYYYY too much and you STILL want me to do this, right? I'm gonna touch on a lotta stuff here. I'd shied away from posting lately, but I've actually been ASKED my opinion!! You guys don't know what a mind-field you've set off here!!

Now, I'm not particularly wise and wonderful, but I can share with you my experiences and feelings, but that's all. And sometimes those feelings don't follow the norm, so be forewarned.

OK, history first, I guess. One Monday, last spring, Robert walked in after work. He leaned over to kiss me and I said "Hi, Honey, I love you." He said, "Hi. I love you, too, but not like I used to - we need to talk." That was my last kiss. And the night of the "I love you but not IN love with you stuff." Also the last "I love you" in any form.

Within a week, he didn't love me at all, couldn't stand the sight of me, our marriage had been a mistake and he wished he had never married me. Knew our relationship had been a mistake since the beginning (TEN YEARS???) and it never should have happened. Kristin (my daughter from my first marriage) didn't care for him at all and never would. His family couldn't stand us and we had ruined his life. He couldn't count the number of times he had wished I had been in an accident and died so that he could be released from these "pits of ******". We had NEVER had a good time, never really cared for each other like we should - he couldn't even remember the fun times. And on and on....All this was news to me! We were the couple that most people envied! We had had a hard couple of years, Mom's cancer, Papa's death, but I had NO idea. I wanted to die.

THEN, he told me about PT. She made him feel WONDERFUL. He finally knew what true love really was and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. He adored her 3 year old and she loved him. I had NEVER made him feel this way, we were never meant to be, etc......you know the stuff, right? The knife turned. We've all been there.

So, I came here and lurked. And cried. And couldn't sleep, 30 pounds in 30 days, all the standard stuff. One month later, he left to be with her.

When he left, I didn't know where he was. He didn't contact us, not even Kristin. He spent some time visiting his mom, but eventually, cut away from them as well. She was my greatest strength through this mess. Now, don't get me wrong, she welcomed PT into her home, the whole family did. They were afraid they'd lose Robert if they didn't. His sister called me and told me that Robert was finally happy and I should "move on". (Man, I hate those words, what DO they really mean???) But Mom called me daily once she found out what was going on and tried to spy as much as possible. We've gotten closer than I ever imagined we could be.

PT and Robert set up house. He already had her moved into a new place b/f he left. They opened joint bank accounts, he brought her HERE when I wasn't here to get some of his things, set her up with OUR doctor (she supposedly didn't have one), took her all around OUR town (they lived an hour away) as his girlfriend. Told everyone he ran into that we were through. In VA, you have to be separated for 6 months to get divorced and he said as soon as that time was over, we were done. Taught Leah (PT's daughter) to call him "Daddy". (That hurt worse than ANYTHING, believe it or not.) No financial support whatsoever. Took two vehicles so PT could have one. He called infrequently - when he needed something (until the last month), came by rarely, usually to pick up something or hunt. Didn't give me his address or phone number. Was cold and mean to me - wouldn't talk to Kristin at all hardly (except for once or twice during the whole time.) He was someone I didn't even know.

The first time I posted here, Deb responded first...."You'll be ok, you CAN get through this, there are things you can do." Ok, so there was NO way she could know..I mean, she could NEVER have hurt like I did, loved like I did, been treated as horribly as I was. Ok, I was wrong. She DID know! And she was right - so was everyone else.

I owe my friends here my life. They calmed me down. Showed me I wasn't alone. Cried with me, took deep breaths with me, got me through way too many sleepless nights, laughed with me, and kicked me in the butt and outta feeling sorry for myself when I needed it. I think that was the most important thing of all. And helped me find something to laugh at in the midst of all this mess. I soon discovered I was looking forward to waking every morning.

So, like she said, the rawness eased - the hurt found it's place, continuous sorta, but in it's place. I started paying attention to what people were trying to teach me, got rid of my stubborness and self-righeousness. Ordered books, read, read, read! And started thinking.

You know, Robert couldn't come up with one specific thing about me as a wife that was bad. Even said so himself. But, once I got rid of the old ideas and opened my mind, I COULD!!! I mean, I had worked my butt off to be a good wife, but..... You've heard me say before that he broke the vow of fidelity, but I broke a lot of them too - unknowingly. I wasn't the best PERSON I could be and therefore, not the best wife either.

And I thought about him too. I'd known this man for fifteen years - through good times and what I THOUGHT were bad times (this mess sorta changes your perspective!!) This was not him...to abandon us, leave us to starve. He and Kristin were "joined at the hip". To say now that he never really loved her, just cared for her? Something was definitely not right. This was NOT him....not from my experience, or that of his family and friends (who he had now begun to turn his back on.) Sooo.....

Well, after reading a few books on the nature of affairs, looking realistically at my contributions to the state of our marriage, listening to my betrayer friends on this site, I started to understand. It took away the sting of his words and actions. Didn't erase it - just took the edge off. Through Harley's books and others, I learned about marriages and affairs. From Phil McGraw, I learned about myself. I was insatiable. My basic personality is to DO something. Now, I had a bit of understanding, AND something I could do! I got stronger and stronger. Sure, there were bad days. Thanksgiving and New Years come to mind, as well as one notable weekend w/ two love-busting letters. (BTW, I found out that he was thinking hard about coming home at that point and my letters talked him right out of it! The power of a love buster!! I'm glad - I wasn't where I needed to be yet!) As I grew stronger, I felt freer. I realized that I had the power. He didn't keep me going, I realized it was up to me to do that, and to keep HIM going, too! Even though he didn't know it.

First decision. Do I love my husband? Yup, more than life itself - not the things he's doing now, but the man he truly is inside. Second. Do I want my marriage back? Nope - but I want a better one. Third - Am I ready to work for it? Absolutely!! I asked myself these three questions every single day. Every morning, before I got out of bed, I asked myself these questions. Same answer.

So I loved him. And respected and believed in the man I KNEW was inside. I learned to look PAST this behavior and into the soul of the man that I was convinced was still there. And tried to understand the torture he was going through - even though he didn't THINK he was. I knew now, right? I took the good little signs and they sustained my love. I blew off the bad stuff as part of the addiction. So it wouldn't KILL my love. I believed in him and lit a candle (still do, for us and all my friends) and every time I passed it, I told him I loved him and I believed in him. The coolest part was I was also beginning to believe in ME!! TNT taught me that, the power of words and belief.

Since I couldn't talk to him, I wrote a letter to him once a week and sent it to his mom's. Pop would deliver it to work for me. They were light, funny, flirty, news from home - like he was away from camp and homesick!! Works of art that I worked hard on at first, then seemed to come more easily. Somewhere in each letter, when appropriate, I compared something that I was telling him with a good memory of ours (and then this happened and you know it was just like when we....)and laughed about it. I ended each one with "I love you and I will always believe in you." I never took off my rings. He commented on that once - asked why I was wearing them - really angry sounding. I told him I loved him, I was married to him and I would always be married to him in my heart. He looked annoyed at first, looked like he was gonna yell at me and then got quiet for a minute. Then, with a strange look on his face, he said quietly "Thank you, Lori." I laughed and flirted when I saw him. Once or twice, I teared up, but not often. I saved that for when I was alone. At the end of each of the few visits, I hugged him goodbye and said "I love you." I got nothing except "You DO know I'm getting a divorce and marrying PT - no matter what. And even if I didn't marry her, I'll never come back." I just told him to do what he needed to do, but I'd always love him. I never discussed PT with him, never mentioned her name. I never discussed us or our marriage. If he brought it up, I'd just say I loved him and I wanted what would make him happy. No more. He'd just look at me like I had lost my mind.

At first it was "pretending". But I was working on me too, with the help of my favorite book by Phil McGraw. And I wasn't sitting around waiting. I continued to love him, but I had a daughter to raise and life was happening. I knew I couldn't support us and keep this house. She couldn't stay in private school. And I didn't have much time. I knew my job would be ending, just didn't know when. So I enrolled her in public school, started working on the house to sell it. Went to HS football games, shopping with friends, movies with the kids, whatever. I enjoyed more days than I didn't. And grew stronger. So, soon, I didn't have to pretend. During this time, I forgave him. Don't remember when or how, just all of a sudden, realized that I wasn't angry and didn't hold anything against him. Robert had held marriage sacred, had always been there for me, no matter what. Had NO respect whatsoever for any SOB who would stray and was very verbal about it. For a good, kind and decent man - the most wonderful man I ever knew to turn his back on everything that had ever been important to him - something was wrong. And I couldn't love him and not forgive him for something that took him over so completely. I learned to laugh. I began sleeping, I began to live. But I didn't stop loving him. I think THAT'S moving on.

Around Dec. he started calling a bit more, bogus reasons, favors he needed. Still talking divorce. But finally communicating a bit. I just listened. Never talked about us. See, now I wasn't "playing" him to get him back. I was REALLY his friend! You know? I cared about him, loved him and wanted what was best for him. Like a real friend would. So, it was getting easier most of the time. Of course, I still wanted him back, but, I wasn't obsessing anymore. He called one day at work, wanted the Dr.'s phone number and wound up getting really nasty with me. I patiently listened and let him talk, no matter what he said, and eventually discovered that he had had a seizure, the first in 20 years, the Friday b/f. Once I thought about it and the way I know my husband is, I realized he could've looked the phone number up in the directory. He needed to talk - he was scared. And, for him, scared turns into angry. And I was the target. Why? Because I was the one he could trust. And I was there for him. I found out later, I was right. Without even realizing it, when he got scared, he turned to me.

In January, I got the letter telling me he was about to file. It was time to "get it over with." And 4 days later, he asked to come home. We took a month to make the transition and see each other. He still had not said "I love you." That came during that month. So did our first conversations about us since that very first week. I found out later that he thought he came home b/c he decided he SHOULD. Now, it didn't hurt that PT had been a B**** and I had become someone he enjoyed being around. He told his family he really "liked" me now - I was still Lori, but "more somehow". And I really liked me too - a whole lot more than I did before. I was very proud of myself for what I was doing - for my marriage and for me personally. That shines through, I think. It seems that he had been doing a lot of thinking - for practically the whole time. And then, one day, he heard a song, and it stuck in his head, reminding him of committment and all that stuff. He pushed it away and wrote that letter - fighting the thoughts. Well, on his way over here on Saturday, he heard it again. And he decided. He couldn't "move on" until he had finished this. He was coming over to fix my dryer for me (the FIRST thing he had ever offered to do) and wound up taking me for a ride and asking to come home. No real romance there, guys.

The first few weeks were unsettling. PT pulled hard and so did his emotions. There's so much guilt and other stuff. He said he wanted to move out on day 3. He tested me constantly to see if I was real and if my love was real. And, then, very slowly, he became strong. And we began to fall in love. And now, he tells me he loves me forever, loved me even when he didn't love me (that makes sense to me for some reason) and that he's 100% "in love" with me (I hate THAT phrase, too, but I'll take it from him! ) He also says he admires my courage, respects me for respecting him, even when I had no reason to, and that my believing in him made him strong. I don't take credit for all that, but it sure feels good to hear it.

Ok, now for opinions. Don't blast me, ok? I never felt humiliated or shamed. We made mistakes and bad judgements, but...stuff happens. I had small spurts of anger - at specific THINGS he did and said, but anger has never come easily for me - I believe it's simply another way of showing hurt, so I never really had to deal with the slow burning continuous anger - I just let myself hurt and dealt with it. Tootrusting is right - we can't force them. THEY have to figure it out on their own. All we can do is be there and love them - if we choose to.... and that's what it is - a choice. We're not doormats or any such nonsense. We're strong and independent and coping with a difficult situation, thank you. And this is NOT for wimps! I can't think of anything less doormatty (like that word? ) than standing strong for what you believe in in the face of all the nonsense. But I'd be there for my child and I decided I'd sure as ****** be there for my husband as long as he'd let me - and sometimes, even when he wouldn't. A lot of times it would've been a lot easier to run - For my short time, I chose the other path.

Robert didn't decide "all of a sudden". All those months of Plan A (I just do NOT have a Plan B personality!) were slowly building impressions that were eating away at his subconscious. When the time was right, a trigger (the song) brought them to the surface. I'm not so sure that he really did it to "do the right thing." I think that's the excuse for doing what he wanted to do, know what I mean? I mean, his love just grew too quickly to have just been "doing the right thing." He didn't change his mind quickly. Everything was slowing bringing him back to reality - we just couldn't see it. PT was being a B*****. I was being an angel. The fog was wearing thin. The letter was a last grasp to hang on to the "I'll never go back" thing. Fighting back against those nagging thoughts. I found out later that every time he left here, no matter how awful he was to me, he went home and was MORE awful to PT - or quiet and sullen. Then, he'd go out and do something WONDERFUL for her.....trying to hold on, know what I mean? Remember the little Dutch boy? A tiny hole in a dam is NOT a big thing. But that little bit of water, seeping through, DOES eventually break it down! That's Plan A. That's what happened to Robert, I think and so does his mom. It didn't happen all of a sudden, the damn dam just finally broke against the consistant gentle force of the water!!! (I just LOVE analogies - even corny ones!)

OK, warned you this would be long and I don't even know if I've helped at all. The saddest part is that it WAS longer....I actually pared it down a bit! TNT summed it up better than me.

Ok, so that's the closest I can come to a nutshell version. If I missed a question, let me know. I'll try NOT to be so wordy the next time around.

Good luck to you.

Love and prayers,

Lori"

your situation sounds very similar to mine. after 9 years of marriage my husband has an affair out of the blue. we nevered argued will everyone does but it was not like a daily or weekly for that matter. this woman is married and has 4 kids. she is very controlling. she called him but it takes two. to make a long story short right now we are separated. we speak every day but it gets very emotional for me. not only do i have to be strong for me but for my daughter who went from a daddys girl to just seeing once a week. he still says he loves me but yet he is with her. i dont know if he is telling me what i want to hear or what. i feel for what you are going thru because the last 6 months has been the most painful of my life. he even admits that the only thing that they have is a sexual connection because they are so different. they fight all the time mostly because she is jealous which to me she has no right to. i know how you feel about being at your wits in. at least you got to slap her. i would love to do that. but she would have me in jail and i dont want put more stress on my daughter. i myself is just at the point of confusion. should i move on and forget about him or should i fight more? i know this dont help you much but at least you know there are people at there that is rooting for you and i will be praying for you as well.

bsj220, I'm so sorry for your situation.

Why don't you start your own thread so others can help you too?

~ Marsh